Female Iowa fan: "drunken, adulterous bathroom sex at football game ruined my life"

[bigjohnson]

I don't understand what basis for firing her there was.

 

[The Bat]

Learning to judge a woman by her actions rather than her words is one of the most important things a guy can do. But it, obviously, doesn't just hold for women. It applies across the board, as guys b.s., lie, and rationalize bad/selfish behavior all the time too.

I think the difference is that, for whatever reason, society applies different standards to women than it does to men. We tend to look at men with a natural skepticism. Society (both women and men) is always just a little suspicious of guys. Thus, we're more inclined judge men by their actions than by their words. We don't hold women to the same level of skepticism.

Simply: men are held accountable, women are not. Remember, in "As Good as it Gets," when Jack Nicholson's writer character is asked how he writes women so well, he answers, "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

One point of contention, though: AFC's may be a dime a dozen, but I don't think it's a good thing that so many guys blindly accept womens' b.s.

The husband from Iowa got punked by his wife in a major way. He shouldn't be so accepting and "supportive" of her. After all, if anyone needs "support" right now, it's probably him. He could definitely benefit from the support of family and friends who have his, and his kids', best interests in mind. His wife sure as hell doesn't have his, or her kids', best interests in mind. When she got drunk at the football game and ended up getting nailed in that bathroom stall, she was looking for fun, excitement and attention. Now she's looking to save face -- not her family's face, but her face.

But here's what gets me: I don't think the AFC husband is an anomaly. Maybe in the old days, guys wouldn't have tolerated a drunk/cheating wife. But I've seen so many (modern) guys put up with that kind of b.s. over the past 10 years or so that I think it's probably becoming the norm.

And that's not a good thing at all, no matter how good it may make you, me, or any other "real man" or "Don Juan" look by comparison.

I agree with everything you say.

But why waste your time and energy trying to change an AFC who is so stuck knee deep within his own convictions?

You can't change the whole world and every single AFC.

As Gandhi said, "Be the change you wish to see in the world".

I lament the loss of AFCs to ignorance, false sense of ego, and manipulation, too. But it's like Rollo always says, "Treat it like a triage. Save the ones that you can, and read the last rites to the dying."

If you know a guy like the husband in real life, try to get him to see things differently. But most AFCs will never appreciate any outside help when they get told how wrong their convictions, their logic, their rational, their outlook is. Now imagine if a stranger tried to tell them those things. :crazy:

 

[TruWarier]

I agree with everything you say.

But why waste your time and energy trying to change an AFC who is so stuck knee deep within his own convictions?

You can't change the whole world and every single AFC.

As Gandhi said, "Be the change you wish to see in the world".

I lament the loss of AFCs to ignorance, false sense of ego, and manipulation, too. But it's like Rollo always says, "Treat it like a triage. Save the ones that you can, and read the last rites to the dying."

Of course you can't change the world and every single AFC. I like the triage analogy, except that I'm not even sure how many friends you can save. It seems like even the most average, run of the mill female is equipped with some kind of magic pixie dust that has the ability to impair the better judgment of most males. And if guys are determined to throw their common sense out the window for some chick, there really isn't much you can do to stop them.

Sometimes it's just better to let them live and learn from experience. I, too, made many of the classic mistakes that guys make with girls at one point or another. But I did so when I was still pretty young. And I always felt like a shlemeil for screwing up and/or letting a girl throw me off my stride. Thus, I learned from my mistakes (usually pretty quickly), as I was determined not to make them again.

On an individual level, the best that you can do is probably to let guys live and learn, while offering your wisdom when and where you can. If they learn from their mistakes, all the better. If they don't ... well, at least it's not your problem.

But none of that gets to the point I was trying to make with the example of the drunk/cheating/Iowa fan's AFC husband, and his relation to the larger trend of pu##y-whipped men being permissive of women's abhorrent behavior. It concerns me that more and more guys let women get away with garbage behavior. And it keeps getting worse as the years go on.

A society can't last if it's people start making the rules up as they go along. When people drop their standards and when a society stops demanding that all its citizens live by the rules, then it is headed for disaster.

If one half of the population is allowed to live free of accountability and responsibility, free of judgment, and free of the standards that society applies to the other half, then it's no longer a society in good health.

It, however, a society in rapid decline.

That's what I was getting at.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Women live within their own reality - and if you can learn to change her reality to fit yours - you can control her mind and lust!

So a realtime example for the good guys to swallow...

Girl with a boyfriend was just over her for 4 hours... i banged her for 2 of those hours...

towards the end her bf called her (she didn't answer) then he text her and asked her what she was doing - he's very protective of her... she said "im at the mall shopping, i couldn't answer because it was too noisy".

he said: oh, where are you shopping at?

she said: macy's

he said: and it's crowded there? it's never crowded there!

she found some picture in her phone that she took over his house of her posing in front of his window... he sent it to him and said "I took this on xmas, aren't i cute? haha"

he responded back with: "I thought you said you were at the mall? that doesn't look like the mall!"
then before she responded he said: "and that's not the top you were wearing this morning when you left my house! what's going on?"

ok... so... he obviously wasn't paying attention because she told him that she took it over his house on xmas in her text with the picture...

SO she starts flipping out about this! she's like "i can't deal with this guy and him not trusting me!" and "he's up my ass about everything like he can't ever trust me!"

so she starts flipping out on him through text and he becomes apologetic...

i'm just in awe of women's control of men sometimes...

i find it best to have a few long term relationships going, and to not care what the women do behind your back... somehow once you can do this - life becomes a lot less confusing; and you can truely have fun with a girl you've been "dating" for 2 years as if you were just starting to date... i learned a lot of this from Johnny Soprano and Franco... MLTRs are really the way to go and help combat this aspect...

 

[slaog]

Lol slaog, do you really believe that. Everyone thinks their family, gf etc. is different. You can never be sure.

About stuff like that not even being thought about it your home,...how would you know? I doubt cheaters discuss it with their cousins, uncles, parents whoever.

You can never be 100% sure but them cheating is not something I think about. I know it hasn't happened so far. It would be totally out of character if it did happen. I'm a good judge of character. You'd know by talking to people what their attitudes are about different things.

how do you know they won't cheat? family members put on their best mask for their family most of the time. there's fathers who think their 19 yo daughter is a virgin, and she may be very good at acting like it - meanwhile, she lost his virginity when she was 12...

if you don't think she could cheat on you - you're far more likely to be oblivious to it when it happens.

You can never fully know but I believe that they won't. I'm not going to spend my days thinking about it and worrying about it. That only creates negativity in relationships and it solves nothing either.


I won't be oblivious if it did happen. I have standards and my GF knows these. She knows what acceptable and unacceptable so and unacceptable behaviour will not go unnoticed. Her getting drunk would be an example. She takes responsibility for her actions too and has high standards.We like each other because we are similar. I wouldn't cheat on her.

So a realtime example for the good guys to swallow...

Girl with a boyfriend was just over her for 4 hours... i banged her for 2 of those hours...

towards the end her bf called her (she didn't answer) then he text her and asked her what she was doing - he's very protective of her... she said "im at the mall shopping, i couldn't answer because it was too noisy".

he said: oh, where are you shopping at?

she said: macy's

he said: and it's crowded there? it's never crowded there!

she found some picture in her phone that she took over his house of her posing in front of his window... he sent it to him and said "I took this on xmas, aren't i cute? haha"

he responded back with: "I thought you said you were at the mall? that doesn't look like the mall!"
then before she responded he said: "and that's not the top you were wearing this morning when you left my house! what's going on?"

ok... so... he obviously wasn't paying attention because she told him that she took it over his house on xmas in her text with the picture...

SO she starts flipping out about this! she's like "i can't deal with this guy and him not trusting me!" and "he's up my ass about everything like he can't ever trust me!"

so she starts flipping out on him through text and he becomes apologetic...

i'm just in awe of women's control of men sometimes...

This proves my point about how cheating usually happens to people who think about it. They actually attract cheaters into their lives.


The girl can do what she wants because she knows the guy is an AFC.

As Gandhi said, "Be the change you wish to see in the world".

If you want high quality women then be a high quality man and you'll attract them.

 

[DonGorgon]

I know plenty who won't cheat... my family members, cousins etc etc. It's just not something thats even thought about..

One mans ho is always another mans - mom, sister, cousin, wife, girlfriend etc etc etc.. not knowing may make you feel better but it does not mean it is not happening... ignorance can be comforting or terrifying..

 

[DonGorgon]

There IS a sliver lining here...

Judge a woman by her actions and never her words..

You will be privie to 10% or less of her actions so good luck making an accurate informed judgement.

 

[It's-Me]

Hahah I'm sure they'll stay together and everything will work out just fine for them. After all, it's not her fault she had sex with another man because she was drunk and had ABSOLUTELY no control on her actions. YEAH AS IF!! STUPID *****. SHE RUINED HER OWN ****ING LIFE.

Damn, society is getting at its worse.....sad, sad, sad!!

I agree...

What the hell has society come to?

 

[bukowski_merit]

If you want high quality women then be a high quality man and you'll attract them.

so, lay out your master plan for being able to tell if a woman will cheat on you or not.

you're living in just as much of a fantasy world as women live in. to believe that women can overcome their hardwiring and become of a a higher quality than is genetically possible. they instinctually cannot help themselves when the right buttons are pushed... i have become an expert at pushing these buttons, and don't believe a woman is "high quality" enough for me to not be able to get into her head and have her forgetting guys who believe that "social status" or being of a "higher quality" will save them...

 

[slaog]

so, lay out your master plan for being able to tell if a woman will cheat on you or not.

you're living in just as much of a fantasy world as women live in. to believe that women can overcome their hardwiring and become of a a higher quality than is genetically possible. they instinctually cannot help themselves when the right buttons are pushed... i have become an expert at pushing these buttons, and don't believe a woman is "high quality" enough for me to not be able to get into her head and have her forgetting guys like you who believe that "social status" will save them...

I'm not talking about social status. I'm talking about a people who are in control of their emotions.


It's not about overcoming hardwiring it's about have standards. You have success with cheaters because thats the type of women you attract. Thats my theory.


What you say is true for you. Women feel things. Some women feel it's ok to cheat. Others would hate themselves if it did it. In other words no 2 people are the same. Others use their common sense and are not led by their feelings. Others don't allow themselves to get into a situation where cheating could be an option.


If a woman was happy in a relationship why would she cheat? You asked how could I tell. One of the ways is seeing how happy a woman is in a relationship. If she is unhappy and doesn't have much morals then she is far more likely to cheat.


I'm not living in a fantasy world. In the world I live in most women do not cheat. Thats a fact. Judge them by their actions.


I know plenty who won't cheat... my family members, cousins etc etc. It's just not something thats even thought about..

One mans ho is always another mans - mom, sister, cousin, wife, girlfriend etc etc etc.. not knowing may make you feel better but it does not mean it is not happening... ignorance can be comforting or terrifying..

It's not ignorance. It's about finding a quality woman in the begining. If you build a house on solid foundations you don't need to worry about it falling down.

:rockon:

 

[bukowski_merit]

I'm not talking about social status. I'm talking about a people who are in control of their emotions.

women allow their emotions to drive them; they are not logical - if you touch a womans emotions; and know what you're doing - she CANNOT control them; therefore, she cannot control herself.

It's not about overcoming hardwiring it's about have standards. You have success with cheaters because thats the type of women you attract. Thats my theory.

I'm not talking about my own hardwiring or standards. I'm talking about women's hardwiring; hardwiring that has went through thousands of years of evolution. if their genetics tell them to be sexually attracted to a man who makes are feel emotions A, B & C - there's nothing she can do to stop herself from being sexually attracted to a man who successfully makes her feel that way. doesn't matter if she's a seasoned cheater, or someone who has never imagined cheating.

What you say is true for you. Women feel things. Some women feel it's ok to cheat. Others would hate themselves if it did it. In other words no 2 people are the same. Others use their common sense and are not led by their feelings. Others don't allow themselves to get into a situation where cheating could be an option.

almost every woman i've had cheat on her bf with me, has hated themselves for it. but that's on a logical level. on a logical level - they hated themselves, and wanted it to end; they'd even tell me as much ("we must end this now! i just can't do this anymore.") but on an emotional level - they were still under my control. even going as far as to tell me something like that... i laugh at them, play with them, get their emotions bundled up, and then they'll be over my house a hour later... hating themselves, but loving what i'm doing to them...

i will say that - yes, perhaps if the woman doesn't allow herself to be in a situation where she could get seduced - then yes, she could avoid this. because a lot of women who are in solid relationships, need to be slowly pulled into the frame of cheating; so it would be hard to achieve this say, with some woman you just meant at a super market; but take that same woman who's completely happy in her current rel, in a setting where she has constant contact with me (like work) and it won't be long before i have her proposing naughty things to me.

If a woman was happy in a relationship why would she cheat? You asked how could I tell. One of the ways is seeing how happy a woman is in a relationship. If she is unhappy and doesn't have much morals then she is far more likely to cheat.

none of that stuff really matters (happiness, morals, etc). there’s plenty of ways to keep a relationship interesting and fresh (reducing the likelihood that she’d cheat). but relying on her personal morals and trying to read her happiness (or even believing that happiness is all that’s needed) – isn’t advised.

I'm not living in a fantasy world. In the world I live in most women do not cheat. Thats a fact. Judge them by their actions.

women who cheat do not always get caught. women who cheat sometimes tell NO ONE EVER! how in the world can you say “most women do not cheat [in your world]”? are you around these women all the time? you have a lot of faith in your people reading skills, and in the people you let into your life – that’s fine. but YOU cannot possibly know if you’re correct or not!

 

[diggitydoggz]

I think it's dangerous to generalize and say that ALL women are the same way. Women do the same thing about men - saying that all men are cheaters, azzholes, etc... but do you really not know a SINGLE man who doesn't fit this description? There are moral men and immoral men, and there are moral women and immoral women.... and while women may be less able to control their emotions I find it highly doubtful that there aren't any women out there with the mental strength and morals to be faithful. There are people capable of resisting the strongest temptations, both male and female... rare perhaps, but they exist. So I wouldn't think it a hopeless pursuit to find a woman who wouldn't cheat on you if a more attractive male came along. I think that's a pessimistic and inaccurate view of the world.

 

[It's-Me]

I think it's dangerous to generalize and say that ALL women are the same way. Women do the same thing about men - saying that all men are cheaters, azzholes, etc... but do you really not know a SINGLE man who doesn't fit this description? There are moral men and immoral men, and there are moral women and immoral women.... and while women may be less able to control their emotions I find it highly doubtful that there aren't any women out there with the mental strength and morals to be faithful. There are people capable of resisting the strongest temptations, both male and female... rare perhaps, but they exist. So I wouldn't think it a hopeless pursuit to find a woman who wouldn't cheat on you if a more attractive male came along. I think that's a pessimistic and inaccurate view of the world.

I agree, however I think it's getting rarer and rarer to have moral women because of society.

 

[diggitydoggz]

agreed. it's sad. i see middle school girls walking around dressed like they were slutty sorority girls. and it's not like i'm from the hood or anything, i live in a really wealthy area with people who should've had good upbringings... sigh...

 

[slaog]

women allow their emotions to drive them; they are not logical - if you touch a womans emotions; and know what you're doing - she CANNOT control them; therefore, she cannot control herself.


I'm not talking about my own hardwiring or standards. I'm talking about women's hardwiring; hardwiring that has went through thousands of years of evolution. if their genetics tell them to be sexually attracted to a man who makes are feel emotions A, B & C - there's nothing she can do to stop herself from being sexually attracted to a man who successfully makes her feel that way. doesn't matter if she's a seasoned cheater, or someone who has never imagined cheating.

I'm sexually attracted to alot of women but that doesn't mean I'd cheat. Humans are not animals or robots. People can control their emotions. In fact they do all the time. Babies and young chrildren don't but grown ups are able to do it. At least most grown ups anyway.

almost every woman i've had cheat on her bf with me, has hated themselves for it. but that's on a logical level. on a logical level - they hated themselves, and wanted it to end; they'd even tell me as much ("we must end this now! i just can't do this anymore.") but on an emotional level - they were still under my control. even going as far as to tell me something like that... i laugh at them, play with them, get their emotions bundled up, and then they'll be over my house a hour later... hating themselves, but loving what i'm doing to them...

No they didn't hate themselves. They said that so it wouldn't make them seem as bad. They are living in a fantasy world of their own making. There are people out there like that.

none of that stuff really matters (happiness, morals, etc). there’s plenty of ways to keep a relationship interesting and fresh (reducing the likelihood that she’d cheat). but relying on her personal morals and trying to read her happiness (or even believing that happiness is all that’s needed) – isn’t advised.

Of course it matters. If a person is very happy with somebody why would they want to ruin that? If a person was unhappy and felt trapped then that person would be more likely to cheat. Most of the time they just break up.

women who cheat do not always get caught. women who cheat sometimes tell NO ONE EVER! how in the world can you say “most women do not cheat [in your world]”? are you around these women all the time? you have a lot of faith in your people reading skills, and in the people you let into your life – that’s fine. but YOU cannot possibly know if you’re correct or not!

If you think that most women do cheat then you are deluded. No offense.


Cheating is a lack of respect for yourself and the partner. Women who cheat usually are brought up with little respect and morals.


Men who cheat are not real men. Real men can control themselves.

 

[bukowski_merit]

"Studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship with each other (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)..."

YET!

90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.

Bare in mind that the above cheating statistic is oriented at married couples! the number is much higher for "boyfriend/girlfriend" couples... but just in married couples - 50%++++ will cheat (statistically)...

Human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. Women were once used only to spread the seed of the strongest warriors so that tribes could survive (so the human race could survive). The strongest of the warriors could have as many as 20-50 children in his lifetime. This is 20-50 future powerful warriors, blacksmiths, farmers, etc. There was no such thing as monogamy until religion started showing up on earth. not religion as in the sun and moon and stars were gods... but controlling religions designed to give man power over women, children, and material possessions (this was necessary as society became more "civilized"). so man gained the ability to KILL men who messed with their possessions; and if a woman gave up her goods/***** - she could be killed right there. This worked some what in stopping others from ****ing our women. Things changed on the outside; but on the inside - we are still wired as men to desire to spread our seed to as many woman as possible; and the women still desire to have the babies of the strongest warriors (physically or intellectually). Because of this - there's a constant struggle in us between logic, emotions, and instinct. The logical side is really the only side that needs to be overcame in order to access a persons desire to do something as "morally wrong" as cheat. Our emotional side and our instinctual side want to be with the one who we desire most (which is often not the one we are with). But logic is powerful; logic is learned through social conditioning. Right and wrong is taught. Good and evil is taught. Etc. Logic is how we're "supposed" to feel about things. Logic is why we're taught to pay attention to only 10% of what a woman says, and 90% of what she does. Because her logical side will say one thing... while he emotional side will often reveal the real truth.

Am i saying every person will cheat sometime in their life? NO! There are plenty of people who won't. But it's normally for one of the following reasons:

1) they were not attractive enough to the opposite sex to get a chance to.
2) those that approached them with the idea, were not attractive enough to them for them to consider cheating.
3) they lose their sexual desire and ability to perform before the chance is offered.
4) their lover locked them down and kept their life interesting enough to not want to.

Have i ever been cheated on? As far as I know - NO! so this isn't coming from a jaded man who has a history of being cheated on. I dated a woman for 4 years, and don't think she cheated on me. And i didn't cheat on her. But who knows if she did? (or if i did? afterall, i could be lying to you - she might not even exist.)

People can control their emotions. In fact they do all the time.

Women can control the emotions they show. They can't control what they feel deep down. They can't control natural desires (they can control what they do, not how they feel). They can't control how their ancestors from thousands and thousands of years of evolution reacted to things; and thus it became instinct. Another man can slap you in the face, and you may be able to believe you're a bigger man by stepping down and not fighting him. There's plenty of men who believe that is the case. But instinctual - you WANT to slap him back. You actually have a deep desire to kill him right there. But we learn (mostly in our teens) how to hide that desire behind a mask of calm. Your poker face is as natural as a freddy krueger mask.

Of course it matters. If a person is very happy with somebody why would they want to ruin that?

Because happiness and sexual desire have very little to do with each other.

If you think that most women do cheat then you are deluded. No offense.

If you don't - you perhaps don't care about psychology, sociology, or what statistical data says.

Women who cheat usually are brought up with little respect and morals.

You're pulling this stuff out of your own head. And that's why it's nonsense.

Children/Wives of judges, teachers, doctors, preachers, cops, civil rights leaders, etc - who were brought up with the greatest touch of respect, and the highest levels of morals - cheat. People who come up rich and are taught to be proper and classy - cheat. People who are in social circles where it's unacceptable to cheat and can ruin them - cheat.

 

[slaog]

"Studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship with each other (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)..."

YET!

90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.

Bare in mind that the above cheating statistic is oriented at married couples! the number is much higher for "boyfriend/girlfriend" couples... but just in married couples - 50%++++ will cheat (statistically)...

Human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. Women were once used only to spread the seed of the strongest warriors so that tribes could survive (so the human race could survive).

Lies, damn lies and statistics as they say. The problem I have with stats like these is believing them. I presume they didn't go to the local church and ask people there. For all we know it come have taken place in a brothal. Was it city or country people they asked? etc etc


Another thing is even if it was true then there still are plenty of people who havn't cheated. About 50% of women. Theres alot to choose from still.

Women can control the emotions they show. They can't control what they feel deep down. They can't control natural desires (they can control what they do, not how they feel). They can't control how their ancestors from thousands and thousands of years of evolution reacted to things; and thus it became instinct.

Yes if a hot girl was rubbing up against me I'd naturally get turned on but it doesn't mean I'd do anything. The brain is made up of different parts. The primative part would get turned on but the other part is in control. Alcohol effects things too.

Because happiness and sexual desire have very little to do with each other.

A woman in a happier relationship wouldn't need to find happiness else where. There would also be more to lose for her.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. You think it's in peoples nature to cheat. I don't think that.


I believe that people cheat because it's becoming normal due to the media. It's all over the media and the more people see this the more it becomes part of their reality. Thats why I choose not to think about it too much. It won't become normal to me.


I had an experiance in the summer of dating a girl who was seeing a married man. I thought she'd leave him but didn't. He's a millionaire. She convinced herself that she wasn't cheating just because we didn't kiss. I tried to tell her otherwise but she wouldn't listen. After that I learned to never get involved with a person in a relationship again. The irony is that the millionaire guy who was cheating on his wife was being cheated on by the girl. He was always checking her phone too etc. A perfect example of the law of attraction. He became a cheat and attracted a cheat. Like attracts like.

 

[diggitydoggz]

Yeah.. I'd have to say I'm with sloag on this one. I don't think it's possible to be able to say with complete certainty that all women would be cheaters under conducive circumstances. I mean we can talk about history and genetics all day but unless we've boned every single married girl we've ever come across, we can't say for certain. There are a lot of women out there and everyone is different. Like I said before there are probably girls that make similar sweeping generalizations about men - but we know that they aren't true. I don't think it's an accurate or healthy mindset anyway.

 

[slaog]

Yeah.. I'd have to say I'm with sloag on this one. I don't think it's possible to be able to say with complete certainty that all women would be cheaters under conducive circumstances. I mean we can talk about history and genetics all day but unless we've boned every single married girl we've ever come across, we can't say for certain. There are a lot of women out there and everyone is different. Like I said before there are probably girls that make similar sweeping generalizations about men - but we know that they aren't true. I don't think it's an accurate or healthy mindset anyway.

Thats the main point. It isn't an accurate or healthy mindset.


We can't really get technical about history and genetics because people are not robots. These arguments are good excuses for bad behaviour alright.


Teenagers are having sex younger these days then ever. You could argue that it's natural but when I was a young teenager I didn't even think about it much because it wasn't on TV as much as it is nowadays.

 

[diggitydoggz]

yeah exactly.... you phrased it best. We aren't robots or animals. humans aren't "hard wired" to take action against our will. sure, we have reflexes like recoiling when we touch a hot stove, but there's no hard wired, undefeatable inner instinct that FORCES women to cheat. and it's not as if there was any proof of this anyway - and having fvcked many married women is not proof. i don't see why you'd want to go through life with this mindset anyway. i think it's kind of messed up how everyone here seems to look down on women.