Fear of approaching women

[SW15]

Almost every guy who approaches women is going to have issues with approach anxiety/approach fear.

When a man approaches an unknown woman with mating intentions (either shorter or longer term), he's putting his own ego on the line. When a woman rejects a man's invitation to escalate the interaction, the man can feel that his self-identity is being crushed. That can feel hurtful to a man. Some men are better at emotionally processing that than others, but it is an undesirable outcome for all men.

Rejections off of initial in-person approaches are not that big of a deal. It doesn't mean much if a woman says no to the initial advance. She didn't feel enough in a 5 minute bar or grocery store conversation. No money was spent on her.

Most in-person approaches won't even get to a 5 minute conversation. Most in-person approach conversations fizzle out within 30-60 seconds, often before a first date offer is made. More direct game/Mode One style approachers could get an invitation out to a future event within 30-60 seconds. A lot of the more indirect style approachers are getting shut down without no's. Those are soft no's and they aren't that good either.

An advantage about going super direct is that the invitation to a date is always made. A disadvantage is that even if a man gets a yes in 30-60 seconds, he might not have a good first date when it happens. 30-60 seconds isn't enough time to figure out if there's enough compatibility for a good first date.

An advantage about going more indirect and getting into an extended conversation (around 5-10 minutes) is that there's a better sense that a first date could be good. A disadvantage of this is an increase in soft no's from conversations that fizzle out within 30-60 seconds. Most of those approach conversations are likely with females not seeking new penis (they will shorten conversations because they aren't seeking new penis). However, the approaching male doesn't know which of his soft no's are coming from worthless targets (women with boyfriends) or unattached women who are valid targets.

Approaching is putting it all out on the line and seeing what happens. That's a scary idea for a lot of men. It's easier to put it out on the line and take rejections behind an electronic screen, even if a man gets hundreds to thousands of e-rejections.

 

[pipeman84]

After this stage, It depends, again on the setting and location. You can lead up with "what brings you out tonight?" or at the gym "So what you're working on today?" etc. You have to get creative at this part but dont talk too much. just keep it short and sweet.

After that stage, right away, hit her with why you stopped her...

You: Well, listen, like i said I thought you were incredibly sexy, let's exchange phones numbers and go out this week or next.

You do that and you'll be very soon known as 'that guy' and probably have to change gyms.
Furthermore, it would take a ditzy bimbo with low self esteem to fall for that cheesy line.

 

[Aurora Demon]

Start small.

Ask for directions and neutral conversation starters like that, ask, get answer, walk away.

Try to stay longer gradually, to expand your comfort zone.

Youll eventually be doing approaches.

Everybody freezes up at times, even the best of the best.

Your first 3 approaches are warm ups and the results don’t count or matter.

Even after thousands of approaches that fear remains, you just learn to over one it and manage negative emotions and fear.

 

[Aurora Demon]

You do that and you'll be very soon known as 'that guy' and probably have to change gyms.
Furthermore, it would take a ditzy bimbo with low self esteem to fall for that cheesy line.

I’ve personally done maybe 50 approaches at the gym, I personally recommend against it. It would make you self conscious if rejected and distract you from your work outs. I’m at the gym to get i. shape and improve my looks, I don’t need distractions.

I’ve laid girls I met at the gym and taken a few on dates but I stopped doing that to avoid becoming “that guy”. I make a good impression so that’s probably why I never got a complaint.

I would save approaches for elsewhere and use gym time to build up your physique.

Only approach girls you see checking you out or are incidentally close enough for you to talk to without moving.

 

[SW15]

Ask for directions and neutral conversation starters like that, ask, get answer, walk away.

Neutral conversation starters can still work but asking for directions is outdated. Smartphones/phone internet browsers killed that. Roosh's old school pet shop opener might have worked with lower rates of smartphone ownership in the 2000s but would be considered strange now in the 2020s.

I’ve personally done maybe 50 approaches at the gym, I personally recommend against it. It would make you self conscious if rejected and distract you from your work outs. I’m at the gym to get i. shape and improve my looks, I don’t need distractions.

I’ve laid girls I met at the gym and taken a few on dates but I stopped doing that to avoid becoming “that guy”. I make a good impression so that’s probably why I never got a complaint.

Both the general gym floor and fitness classes are tough approaching environment. It's easy to make a recommendation against those venues, especially the general gym floor with so many earbuds.

 

[Aurora Demon]

Neutral conversation starters can still work but asking for directions is outdated. Smartphones/phone internet browsers killed that. Roosh's old school pet shop opener might have worked with lower rates of smartphone ownership in the 2000s but would be considered strange now in the 2020s.



Both the general gym floor and fitness classes are tough approaching environment. It's easy to make a recommendation against those venues, especially the general gym floor with so many earbuds.

Agreed to both points.

What they say doesn’t matter, if it’s an exercise for anxiety.

Like asking someone for the time, if it makes you uncomfortable then it should help with expanding your comfort zone.

I haven’t used a neutral convos starter in years so I can’t think of many.

 

[Clockwerk50]

When I first moved to my current state at 23, I went through a phase where I'd invite total strangers in public to come over for sex. Not one accepted my advances. But I was able to make the sex offer to these total strangers with no nervousness whatsoever on my part.

Yet to this day (nearly a decade later), the mere thought of asking out a woman I know well (who's given me IOIs) on a simple date gives me crippling levels of nervousness.

Unfortunately, everything I just said on my post goes 100% against the strategy many have proposed on this forum of only focusing on high interest level gals.

As for the question on the OP of how to overcome a fear of rejection, I suppose the first step is to identify: Is it really the rejection itself you're afraid of? Or is there something else you're afraid of?

The fact I could ask total strangers for sex (knowing that's a recipe for almost certain rejection), yet can't ask out a woman I know well (even if she's given me an IOI) goes to show I don't fear the rejection itself; what I fear is having to run into the woman after a rejection (I knew I was highly unlikely to run into these total strangers ever again. Yet if I know a woman well, I'm obviously going to run into her again. And just because she's given me an IOI doesn't mean she'll definitely accept my ask out)

It’s strange that you can approach strangers without hesitation but feel nervous asking someone you know well. I think your approach to intimacy may be missing the emotional connection spark for you to get laid. Sex can be spontaneous, but meaningful connections are built on more than just the physical act. Focusing on sex as a transactional exchange, especially with strangers, overlooks the importance of mutual respect and connection. Being intimate with someone has a lot of emotional layers to it.

I guess some food for thought here but what are you offering beyond just sex, and how do you think someone might respond if you focused on creating a genuine emotional connection instead? Also, do you think your nervousness just comes from a fear of vulnerability, not just rejection?

 

[SW15]

I haven’t used a neutral convos starter in years so I can’t think of many.

Neutral conversation starter would be situational observations, including their outfits. They can range from good openers to cringe.

 

[Gamisch]

We feel anxious to approach because we are not in our best (mental) shape.

If you'd realise how much women love to be approached you would be stunt. I agree with poster above me that you gotta start small. You can't go to the gym for the first time and load up 225 lbs . Gotta start small.

Talking about the gym; the gym is sanctuary, my power chamber. I don't even think about approaching women there, although I won't hesitate to bag a woman when I get obvious ioi. But it's just messy. In my current gym there are 3 women I slept with and I see them on a regular. Sometimes shyte gets awkward..

Imo too many men make it unnecessarily difficult. Therr are tons of festivals, parties and all kinds of events where women gather and looking their best. Just look your best and be there...

 

[GoodMan32]

It’s strange that you can approach strangers without hesitation but feel nervous asking someone you know well. I think your approach to intimacy may be missing the emotional connection spark for you to get laid. Sex can be spontaneous, but meaningful connections are built on more than just the physical act. Focusing on sex as a transactional exchange, especially with strangers, overlooks the importance of mutual respect and connection. Being intimate with someone has a lot of emotional layers to it.

I guess some food for thought here but what are you offering beyond just sex, and how do you think someone might respond if you focused on creating a genuine emotional connection instead? Also, do you think your nervousness just comes from a fear of vulnerability, not just rejection?

At 23, I totally admit I was an animal. I didn't give a damn about emotional connection. Another thing that didn't help was the fact I was coming off of a 2 year stint where I lived with my parents (I was celibate for those 2 years)

2 years of celibacy, a 23 year old sex drive, newfound freedom, an autist, and a new environment are a recipe for disaster.

I've said before on the forum that, thanks to my ASD, I'm unfamiliar with social norms. The fact I approached total strangers for sex is an example of my unfamiliarity with social norms.

My 23 year old self seriously saw nothing wrong with approaching total strangers for sex. At 33, I (in retrospect) see how cringeworthy I was acting. Asking total strangers for sex, if you aren't at a bar or night club, is incredibly strange...even if the guy is a top tier Chad.

At 33, my sex drive has calmed down a ton. No way would I ask total strangers for sex now.

To answer your question of why I was able to approach strangers with no nervousness whatsoever, yet am incredibly nervous at the mere thought of approaching a woman I know well, I addressed it on the post you quoted. If the woman I know well were to reject me, I'd have to then run into her on an ongoing basis post-rejection (whereas with the total stranger, I'm highly unlikely to run into her again post-rejection)

So in a nutshell, you're right, I fear vulnerability moreso than the rejection itself.

Another thing is the fact my ASD makes it hard for me to differentiate between niceness and interest. I'm extremely self-conscious about my ASD. If I were to make a move on a woman I know well (after getting possible IOIs from her), yet then I were to get rejected, I'd be reminded of what an autistic idiot I am every time I run into her from that point on. With a total stranger, on the other hand, I have no reason to think she's into me to begin with, therefore no reason to feel like an idiot if it turns out she's not into me.

The permanent suspense of having to wonder "did the possible IOIs from (insert name of woman I know) mean anything" sucks, no doubt. Making a move on her, only to find out the possible IOIs meant nothing, on the other hand, would suck even more.

Lastly, to address your question of how a woman would respond if I were to create a genuine emotional connection, the gals I've gotten involved with have largely lost interest in me quickly. And the few who remained interested turned out to be so unbearable to be around, I had to break it off.

 

[Clockwerk50]

At 23, I totally admit I was an animal. I didn't give a damn about emotional connection. Another thing that didn't help was the fact I was coming off of a 2 year stint where I lived with my parents (I was celibate for those 2 years)

2 years of celibacy, a 23 year old sex drive, newfound freedom, an autist, and a new environment are a recipe for disaster.

I've said before on the forum that, thanks to my ASD, I'm unfamiliar with social norms. The fact I approached total strangers for sex is an example of my unfamiliarity with social norms.

My 23 year old self seriously saw nothing wrong with approaching total strangers for sex. At 33, I (in retrospect) see how cringeworthy I was acting. Asking total strangers for sex, if you aren't at a bar or night club, is incredibly strange...even if the guy is a top tier Chad.

At 33, my sex drive has calmed down a ton. No way would I ask total strangers for sex now.

To answer your question of why I was able to approach strangers with no nervousness whatsoever, yet am incredibly nervous at the mere thought of approaching a woman I know well, I addressed it on the post you quoted. If the woman I know well were to reject me, I'd have to then run into her on an ongoing basis post-rejection (whereas with the total stranger, I'm highly unlikely to run into her again post-rejection)

So in a nutshell, you're right, I fear vulnerability moreso than the rejection itself.

Another thing is the fact my ASD makes it hard for me to differentiate between niceness and interest. I'm extremely self-conscious about my ASD. If I were to make a move on a woman I know well (after getting possible IOIs from her), yet then I were to get rejected, I'd be reminded of what an autistic idiot I am every time I run into her from that point on. With a total stranger, on the other hand, I have no reason to think she's into me to begin with, therefore no reason to feel like an idiot if it turns out she's not into me.

The permanent suspense of having to wonder "did the possible IOIs from (insert name of woman I know) mean anything" sucks, no doubt. Making a move on her, only to find out the possible IOIs meant nothing, on the other hand, would suck even more.

Lastly, to address your question of how a woman would respond if I were to create a genuine emotional connection, the gals I've gotten involved with have largely lost interest in me quickly. And the few who remained interested turned out to be so unbearable to be around, I had to break it off.

I think it not the fear of approaching but the fear of being vulnerable and rejected is holding you back. Have you considered that avoiding vulnerability might be keeping you stuck? What would it look like to be more open, even in small ways?

Also, with past relationships, do you see any patterns in how you engage or manage expectations? How do you define emotional connection, and what are you looking for in a relationship, besides just avoiding rejection?

Lastly, could improving how you read social cues help ease your anxiety with women you know?

 

[GoodMan32]

I think it not the fear of approaching but the fear of being vulnerable and rejected is holding you back. Have you considered that avoiding vulnerability might be keeping you stuck? What would it look like to be more open, even in small ways?

Also, with past relationships, do you see any patterns in how you engage or manage expectations? How do you define emotional connection, and what are you looking for in a relationship, besides just avoiding rejection?

Lastly, could improving how you read social cues help ease your anxiety with women you know?

Indeed. Approaching isn't necessarily my root phobia; vulnerability/rejection is my root phobia.

Avoiding vulnerability is most certainly keeping me stuck. Of the gals who have given me possible IOIs (which I failed to act on) through the years, statistically some must have been genuine IOIs (rather than meaningless "signals" I autistically misinterpreted). I could kick myself to think of the missed opportunities through the years (But it's a catch 22. If I acted on her IOIs, only to find out the IOIs were imaginary, I'd also kick myself)

As for being more open in small ways, one example is a story I shared on the forum last month. I told a girl who works at my office building's cafe she looks good. I was able to come out of my shell somewhat without risking an official rejection.

I don't really see a whole lot of patterns with dating through the years. The one pattern I can think of off the top of my head is: I have a tendency to either come on too strong too soon (thus scaring her away) or I don't come on strongly enough (to which the woman probably ends up thinking I'm not overly into her). I have a hard time finding a happy medium.

As for how I define emotional connection, it's hard to put it into words...but I know an emotional connection when I see one. As one example, there was a girl from OkCupid I had 2 dates with in college. Even though she wasn't the first girl I kissed, she was the first girl where the kiss felt right.

Some other examples:

• My 8 month relationship shortly after college. A relationship that long requires some degree of emotional connection
• The last woman I had non-escort sex with. Before we banged, we had flirted off and on for 2 years (thus creating an emotional connection)
• The woman I had my last date with in 2023. We spent 2 and a half hours chatting on a bench after dinner. And this was after I had made myself vulnerable by telling her about my mental illness.

To answer your question of what I'm looking for in a relationship (other than avoiding rejection), I'm looking for ongoing casual sex...but also a relationship that's built on more than just casual sex (without quite reaching boyfriend/girlfriend commitment levels though)

Improving my reading of social cues could (in a perfect world) make me less nervous. That's a tall order, however. Not only because of my ASD, but also because even neurotypicals will give me conflicting feedback on whether a woman is into me (One neurotypical will say "that woman is totally into you," while another neurotypical will say "she's not into you")

 

[Clockwerk50]

Indeed. Approaching isn't necessarily my root phobia; vulnerability/rejection is my root phobia.

Avoiding vulnerability is most certainly keeping me stuck. Of the gals who have given me possible IOIs (which I failed to act on) through the years, statistically some must have been genuine IOIs (rather than meaningless "signals" I autistically misinterpreted). I could kick myself to think of the missed opportunities through the years (But it's a catch 22. If I acted on her IOIs, only to find out the IOIs were imaginary, I'd also kick myself)

As for being more open in small ways, one example is a story I shared on the forum last month. I told a girl who works at my office building's cafe she looks good. I was able to come out of my shell somewhat without risking an official rejection.

I don't really see a whole lot of patterns with dating through the years. The one pattern I can think of off the top of my head is: I have a tendency to either come on too strong too soon (thus scaring her away) or I don't come on strongly enough (to which the woman probably ends up thinking I'm not overly into her). I have a hard time finding a happy medium.

As for how I define emotional connection, it's hard to put it into words...but I know an emotional connection when I see one. As one example, there was a girl from OkCupid I had 2 dates with in college. Even though she wasn't the first girl I kissed, she was the first girl where the kiss felt right.

Some other examples:

• My 8 month relationship shortly after college. A relationship that long requires some degree of emotional connection
• The last woman I had non-escort sex with. Before we banged, we had flirted off and on for 2 years (thus creating an emotional connection)
• The woman I had my last date with in 2023. We spent 2 and a half hours chatting on a bench after dinner. And this was after I had made myself vulnerable by telling her about my mental illness.

To answer your question of what I'm looking for in a relationship (other than avoiding rejection), I'm looking for ongoing casual sex...but also a relationship that's built on more than just casual sex (without quite reaching boyfriend/girlfriend commitment levels though)

Improving my reading of social cues could (in a perfect world) make me less nervous. That's a tall order, however. Not only because of my ASD, but also because even neurotypicals will give me conflicting feedback on whether a woman is into me (One neurotypical will say "that woman is totally into you," while another neurotypical will say "she's not into you")

Damn man, it seems like you have put a lot of time thinking about this stuff. So the real challenge isn’t the fear of rejection itself, but the vulnerability that comes with it—especially with people you know well. Can you think of a time when being vulnerable didn’t feel as scary? What made that experience different?

Also, in regards to all those examples where the connections felt right, what do you think made those situations feel better to you? How might you apply some of those feelings to current interactions with others right now? What would it look like for you to focus on building those types of connections without as much fear of the outcome?

Lastly, you mentioned difficulty reading social cues. Do you think your anxiety might be affecting how you interpret them, or is it more about the fear of being wrong in your interpretation? Could there be a way to start testing the waters with lower-risk interactions to build more confidence in how you read those signals?