Factors that get a man bumped down on the looks scale

[GoodMan32]

I've been reading Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time books recently. I've long been a fan of Tolkien and his work. Those two are probably the most popular fantasy genre authors. Fantasy deals with these mythical, larger than life beings. In Tolkien's Middle Earth, the grandest beings, the Elves, and the grandest men, the Numenoreans were described as being very tall. Aragorn the king, a descendant of the Numenoreans, is very tall. In The Wheel of Time, the main character is also described as very tall, and stands out from other men because of it.

I just bring this up to point out that being tall is seen as a mark of being greater and better than other men, even in fantasy novels. I'm of average height myself, so I can't really speak to what it must be like being tall. A friend of mine is 6' 6" IIRC, and I remember when he was younger he didn't have to try to get women, they would come to him. Now that we're in our '60s, I don't think it has the same effect, but whatever.

There's this 6 foot 4 guy I met online. Even though we live in the same state, we've never met in person.

We've known each other online for about 15 years though. He's the same age as me (33) and still a virgin. Evidently his height hasn't helped him. In fact, he's said he feels like his height holds him back (As it makes the ladies fear him. In addition to being tall, he's closer to 300 pounds than 200 pounds)

 

[corrector]

As for the handsy female coworker who would talk my ear off, I admit there were some possible clues of interest.

There were also some clues that our relationship had no potential of ever being anything more than platonic, however.

One time she told me something to the effect of "Don't think too much into my behavior. I'm old enough to be your mom."

Another time, she made a similar comment. She said she gets a lot of attention from 20-somethings (I myself was still late 20s at the time). She said she's turned down every 20-something that's made a move on her.

With both of those comments, it's like she could potentially sense I was into her (even though I never told her), and she was hinting that I don't have a chance with her.

Then here's perhaps the biggest clue: One time we went out to eat after work. The place we went to was about a mile from where I live. Even though she gave me a ride to the restaurant (we left straight from work; I don't own a car; she sort of had no choice), she didn't give me a ride home afterwards (she made a comment about how we were right along a public transportation line where I could catch a quick ride home). If she wanted sex with me, she would have offered me a ride home (even if she was ultimately going to leave it up to me whether to invite her inside once we got to my building)

What about the other co-workers/female bosses?

 

[corrector]

The breakroom is a pretty decent size. There are several tables. I theoretically could sit with a female coworker (if there were a female coworker in the breakroom at the same time as me). With how much room there is for us to spread out (and with how I don't typically dine with anyone), it would come off as somewhat strange though (The female coworker who would talk my ear off at lunch got fired at the beginning of 2021. A lot of current employees aren't even aware I used to dine with her, as a lot of our current employees weren't here yet back then).

You don't have lunch at similar times as other female co-workers?

Talking to a female coworker on one of the balconies is always an option, as you pointed out. If one happens to come onto the balcony at the same time as me.

You don't communicate over zoom with other female co-workers?

I just thought of another possible reason you have even worse luck than me with the ladies: Supposedly Canadian broads are the one demographic more stuck up than American broads (at least that's what I read somewhere)

I don't think that is the reason. I'm just amogged to death. I'm a bald 48 year old guy. How am I going to compete with guys in thier 20s? The fix is in. I'm just screwed. Even MILFs don't want me. You on the other hand, you have a chance where you are at. In terms of what you are saying, the office I work at does not even have any White ladies working there. They are just mainly Indians and Blacks. I do get "hi" from women working at the office, and sometimes an enthuastic greeting (as happened recently). The "hi" in itself is very meaningful from me, whether its followed with a convo or not depending on who the hi exchange is with.

 

[corrector]

In addition to being tall, he's closer to 300 pounds than 200 pounds)

yeah, that would explain it.

 

[GoodMan32]

What about the other co-workers/female bosses?

There was one female coworker back in 2022-23 where I heard through the grapevine she was into me.

Then there was the coworker I mentioned from 2019-20 who drew a picture of me holding a bouquet of flowers (and asked me if I have a wife/girlfriend).

None of the current employees at my workplace have shown any clues as obvious.

Edit: I just remembered there's a female coworker I think I mentioned on here that I'd catch checking me out a lot in 2021. She still works with me. Come to find out, however, she had a boyfriend all along.

 

[corrector]

There was one female coworker back in 2022-23 where I heard through the grapevine she was into me.

Then there was the coworker I mentioned from 2019-20 who drew a picture of me holding a bouquet of flowers (and asked me if I have a wife/girlfriend).

None of the current employees at my workplace have shown any clues as obvious.

Edit: I just remembered there's a female coworker I think I mentioned on here that I'd catch checking me out a lot in 2021. She still works with me. Come to find out, however, she had a boyfriend all along.

Oh, I didn't know this was all past experience. 2021 is a far ways back.

What "less than obvious" clues have you been getting currently?

 

[GoodMan32]

You don't have lunch at similar times as other female co-workers?



You don't communicate over zoom with other female co-workers?



I don't think that is the reason. I'm just amogged to death. I'm a bald 48 year old guy. How am I going to compete with guys in thier 20s? The fix is in. I'm just screwed. Even MILFs don't want me. You on the other hand, you have a chance where you are at. In terms of what you are saying, the office I work at does not even have any White ladies working there. They are just mainly Indians and Blacks. I do get "hi" from women working at the office, and sometimes an enthuastic greeting (as happened recently). The "hi" in itself is very meaningful from me, whether its followed with a convo or not depending on who the hi exchange is with.

There are a few female coworkers who often eat at the same time as me. They all have either husbands or boyfriends.

My workplace uses Teams; not Zoom.

Ok, it all falls into place after hearing you're bald (I wasn't aware). On top of being bald, I think I recall you said you're overweight too. You're right, that makes it hard to compete with 20-somethings.

After hearing the racial makeup of your office, in a way, that's probably better for you. It's been said on SoSuave before that men generally have the best luck with their own people (exceptions exist of course, like with how I've had decent luck with Latinas whose English isn't good enough to catch every socially awkward comment I make).

Obviously you're having bad luck as it is. All I'm saying is you'd likely have even worse luck at a workplace with hardly any other black employees.

 

[GoodMan32]

Oh, I didn't know this was all past experience. 2021 is a far ways back.

What "less than obvious" clues have you been getting currently?

The more current clues are:

• The story I shared where one of the managers commented that I'm not creepy, unlike the TV character I dressed up as for Halloween (this past Halloween). I don't think that meant anything. One of the posters (I think it might have been you) thought it meant something.
• I also have somewhat of a work spouse. She's married though.

 

[corrector]

There are a few female coworkers who often eat at the same time as me. They all have either husbands or boyfriends.

My workplace uses Teams; not Zoom.

Ok, it all falls into place after hearing you're bald (I wasn't aware). On top of being bald, I think I recall you said you're overweight too. You're right, that makes it hard to compete with 20-somethings.

After hearing the racial makeup of your office, in a way, that's probably better for you. It's been said on SoSuave before that men generally have the best luck with their own people (exceptions exist of course, like with how I've had decent luck with Latinas whose English isn't good enough to catch every socially awkward comment I make).

Obviously you're having bad luck as it is. All I'm saying is you'd likely have even worse luck at a workplace with hardly any other black employees.

In all fairness, I'm giving a current portrayal. It's goes up and down in terms of social dynamics. It's like waves and phases. Sometimes you have a nice connection with someone one day, then something happens, and you are like strangers the next day and vice versa...maybe some new face comes out of the woodworks and you hit it off.

I can't say I'd have worst luck if there were mainly White people at the office (ie in terms of if women are attracted to me). I had a White gf in 2012 and there were some hot moments. I don't have any issues seeing a White woman. In fact, I'm friends with a White married woman (ie mainly zoom interactions).

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Thus, it's much more intelligent to pursue women in one of the millions of venues outside of work we have at our disposal, where the threat of being deprived of our careers based on an accusation as vague as "sexual harassment" isn't omnipresent

one doesn’t pursue women in the workplace. Let the women initiate.

 

[corrector]

The more current clues are:

• The story I shared where one of the managers commented that I'm not creepy, unlike the TV character I dressed up as for Halloween (this past Halloween). I don't think that meant anything. One of the posters (I think it might have been you) thought it meant something.
• I also have somewhat of a work spouse. She's married though.

Is this the same manager? How do you categorize having a "work spouce" --- what are you both doing?

 

[corrector]

one doesn’t peruse women in the workplace. Let the women initiate.

That only works with chad/chad-lite tier guys. Women don't tend to intite if you don't have the looks.

In a sense, pursuing a woman anywhere always entails risks, even if it is not at work.

After all, all she has to do is call the police, if you get the wrong cop and something shows up on your record you could lose your job anyway, even if it's not related to your job.

 

[zekko]

The first 4-5 books were great. Then it went downhill.

Obviously you're talking about The Wheel of Time. You may be right. I avoided reading it for a long time simply because it was too long. I'm a bit of a slow reader. I just feel on a matter of principle that you should be able to tell an effective tale in less space than 14 books that are all 700-800 pages each. It just sounds too self indulgent. But I've started it, we'll see what happens. I read the first book, then I read a couple of other books that I wanted. Now I'm reading the second one. At my age, I may not get to finish them. After all, the author didn't.

 

[GoodMan32]

In all fairness, I'm giving a current portrayal. It's goes up and down in terms of social dynamics. It's like waves and phases. Sometimes you have a nice connection with someone one day, then something happens, and you are like strangers the next day and vice versa...maybe some new face comes out of the woodworks and you hit it off.

I can't say I'd have worst luck if there were mainly White people at the office (ie in terms of if women are attracted to me). I had a White gf in 2012 and there were some hot moments. I don't have any issues seeing a White woman. In fact, I'm friends with a White married woman (ie mainly zoom interactions).

As I said, exceptions exist. Sounds like you're an exception to the rule about men having the best luck with their own people (Then again, white women are *sorta* your people. If I recall, you said you're half white)

 

[GoodMan32]

Is this the same manager? How do you categorize having a "work spouce" --- what are you both doing?

My work spouse isn't a manager. She has the same job title as me.

I call her a work spouse because we share stuff with each other the typical employee wouldn't share with a coworker. She's even admitted to me she vents to me about stuff her husband would tell her to stfu about.

 

[GoodMan32]

That only works with chad/chad-lite tier guys. Women don't tend to intite if you don't have the looks.

In a sense, pursuing a woman anywhere always entails risks, even if it is not at work.

After all, all she has to do is call the police, if you get the wrong cop and something shows up on your record you could lose your job anyway, even if it's not related to your job.

Which is one reason I'm hesitant to cold approach a woman even outside work anymore. In addition to the fact I'm unlikely to succeed, I've witnessed broads throw absolute hissy fits if a man so much as says one word to her in public.

New age feminism has brainwashed broads to think they're entitled to an existence that's entirely devoid of any contact whatsoever with a man who isn't her type.

 

[corrector]

My work spouse isn't a manager. She has the same job title as me.

I call her a work spouse because we share stuff with each other the typical employee wouldn't share with a coworker. She's even admitted to me she vents to me about stuff her husband would tell her to stfu about.

I see why I'm feeling a bit sore lately. Yeah, I had a co-worker like that but that fizzled out. It was somewhat like that between April-mid June, then things took a turn. It was the beginning of the end when a new guy joined the team that she was just more into than me and things were on a decline since. We hardly talk to each other now and it's a low quality co-worker type of rapport at best, toxic vibes at worst.

But then again, she could be using you. I mean, she's useing you to vent, but her husband is with her physically. Doesn't that sort of make you an emotional tampon / friendzone with her? You are okay with that?

Come to think of it, I think perhaps we are getting too emotionally invested with women where there is no chance of physical intimacy or dating involved. I should not get but-hurt when something on that level goes sideways. It's a bit of a BS thing, especially if the girl is taken. Sometimes it looks like we get caught up in clouds and then complain about not getting physical intimacy with women.

 

[GoodMan32]

I see why I'm feeling a bit sore lately. Yeah, I had a co-worker like that but that fizzled out. It was somewhat like that between April-mid June, then things took a turn. It was the beginning of the end when a new guy joined the team that she was just more into than me and things were on a decline since. We hardly talk to each other now and it's a low quality co-worker type of rapport at best, toxic vibes at worst.

But then again, she could be using you. I mean, she's useing you to vent, but her husband is with her physically. Doesn't that sort of make you an emotional tampon / friendzone with her? You are okay with that?

Come to think of it, I think perhaps we are getting too emotionally invested with women where there is no chance of physical intimacy or dating involved. I should not get but-hurt when something on that level goes sideways. It's a bit of a BS thing, especially if the girl is taken. Sometimes it looks like we get caught up in clouds and then complain about not getting physical intimacy with women.

My department at work used to be a department of 16 (back when I started in 2019, pre-pandemic). Long story short, there have been many changes. We're now a department of 4.

Of the 3 other employees in my department, my work spouse is the only who was already here when I started. Since we've been through a lot together (as far as all the work changes these past 5 years), we have a pretty deep bond. The fact we're going strong as work spouses after 5 years makes this dynamic a lot different than the few month work spouse relationship you had.

I'm aware I'm somewhat of an emotional tampon. I'm ok with it. She's older than my mom. I don't think she'd be into a guy as young as me even if she was single.

I agree, no need to get butthurt when a platonic thing dies out.

 

[Scaramouche]

I disagree. Based on your feedback of how women are treating you, you are not being treated as a sub-5, but as a normie. You have very healthy interactions with the opposite sex. I actually envy you. You don't have the right to complain here. If you do, then trade places with me and then you'll experience how a sub-5 is treated.

Hi Corrector,
Welcome back,your starkly authentic posts have made me appreciate the problems other Guys face,but for this sights survival our Masters must also toe the line.

 

[SW15]

I've heard the typical woman rates 80% of men below average.

That's true and it's a feature of the increasing abundance that most women have, especially White American women.

Just under 50% should rate below average, not 80%.

Balding. -2 points easily.

Yes, balding is a factor. So are bad teeth, dressing sloppy, and some other appearance factors. This thread has touched on some status and personality issues. There are status and personality factors that can lower a man's overall appeal, such as unemployment or a bad vibe (autism spectrum can create vibes in women where they don't get "all the feelz").

I’ve probably had a solid 1/3 of my relationships come from work. I don’t regret single one.

There is a certain convenience factor in doing this.

I would say that being friends with women from work is low risk.

It's lower risk, so long as you don't veer conversations into topics that might create concerns about any form of harassment. When talking to women in a white collar work setting, I recommend safer topics. Talking about hobbies (non-sexual) and food are usually acceptable.

Having female friends from work/female acquaintances has the potential to help with getting social circle dating setups. If a man is able to befriend a woman with unmarried/single friends, he might get an introduction. For a lot of mid-tier men, this is how they get into longer term relationships and avoid the failure loop of tech-based dating methods. Tech-based dating methods skew in favor of upper tier men a lot more.

For lunch at work, I typically dine solo in the breakroom. Dining solo is pretty common at my workplace; there's no stigma (in fact, some employees want so much solitude, they eat in their car).

Even though I wasn't in the workforce yet 20 years ago, I'd venture to guess breaks/lunch at work were more social 20 years ago. I blame smartphones for why solo breaks/lunch have become the norm (for a lot of employees, break/lunch are a time to be on your smartphone; not to talk to others).

Sometimes I go to a place on the ground floor of my office building that sells food (it's a lot like a Starbucks, only locally-owned).

I finished college in 2005 and went into the white collar workforce. That's nearly 20 years ago at this point. In my first job out of college, that workplace did have a strong breakroom. There was a television in it and I recall more silence watching TV shows (streaming didn't exist yet, and Netflix was still disc rental by mail).

Even in the mid-2000s, the sociability of breaks/lunch at work depended upon the break room setup and even if the workplace had a break room. Workplaces without good break rooms weren't very social then.

The main, common areas of office buildings can be decent areas for approaches. Hallways are where the approaches usually happen or outdoors in a courtyard.

Many office buildings have cafes/lunchrooms that sell food and drinks. Those are good for being social with a co-worker but rarely good for an approach.