Factors that get a man bumped down on the looks scale

[Hamurabimbi]

I've been reading Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time books recently. I've long been a fan of Tolkien and his work. Those two are probably the most popular fantasy genre authors. Fantasy deals with these mythical, larger than life beings. In Tolkien's Middle Earth, the grandest beings, the Elves, and the grandest men, the Numenoreans were described as being very tall. Aragorn the king, a descendant of the Numenoreans, is very tall. In The Wheel of Time, the main character is also described as very tall, and stands out from other men because of it.

The first 4-5 books were great. Then it went downhill.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

And lots of folks have gotten behind the wheel piss-faced without killing someone or ending up a quadrupalegic. Doesn't mean such things are wise to do

I’ve probably had a solid 1/3 of my relationships come from work. I don’t regret single one.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I’ve probably had a solid 1/3 of my relationships come from work. I don’t regret single one.

Hey, I've had flings with co-workers myself, just as we've all gotten behind the wheel after having had a few too many co-ktails, or done drugs that were a wee bit harder than weed at some point. This doesn't change the fact that these things are, in many respects, unduly risky

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Hey, I've had flings with co-workers myself, just as we've all gotten behind the wheel after having had a few too many co-ktails, or done drugs that were a wee bit harder than weed at some point. This doesn't change the fact that these things are, in many respects, unduly risky

Drunk driving & drugs can be fatally catastrophic and are illegal. Neither are the case with work-dating.

 

[corrector]

Hey, I've had flings with co-workers myself, just as we've all gotten behind the wheel after having had a few too many co-ktails, or done drugs that were a wee bit harder than weed at some point. This doesn't change the fact that these things are, in many respects, unduly risky

You are honestly giving advice against this? This worked for you.

This is one of the first type of posts I see that someone has something that works for them and gives advice against what is working. Are you afraid to share your success? Were the co-workers throwing themselves at you?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Drunk driving & drugs can be fatally catastrophic and are illegal. Neither are the case with work-dating.

Having an embittered harpy accuse you of "sexual impropriety" around the workplace can indeed be catastrophic, especially if you were boning her previously. Try explaining "It was consensual" to half the office, who's already taken her side

It's not for naught that the phrase "Never dip your pen in the company ink" predates MeToo by several decades

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Having an embittered harpy accuse you of "sexual impropriety" around the workplace can indeed be catastrophic, especially if you were boning her previously. Try explaining "It was consensual" to half the office, who's already taken her side

It's not for naught that the phrase "Never dip your pen in the company ink" predates MeToo by several decades

There is a risk-reward ratio for everything. And everyone has their own risk tolerance.

 

[Mike32ct]

The lady you wrote about having gone out to lunch with, in a previous post, was that the female friend from work you were referring to?

Yes. Lately, we get food after work about once every two weeks.

 

[BaronOfHair]

You are honestly giving advice against this?

No, I'm just encouraging everyone to be cagey on this front. OP already admits that most people find him odd. Thus, if he does get accused of sexual harassment or the like by a colleague, his chances of being presumed guilty from the outset are monumental

 

[corrector]

Yes. Lately, we get food after work about once every two weeks.

I think this is very important in a thread like this. You are representative of average looking struggling guys and yet you don't have a problem dealing with women from work and see it as a net positive. The #Me-Too thing and sexual harassment thing is way to overblown and I don't know what is in the OP's head.

The OP is not even going out to lunch with his female co-workers depite the great interactions he has with them. He should do more to deepen the connections he already has with them.

Are you interested in any of your female friends at work sexually or are they not your type, or are taken?

 

[corrector]

No, I'm just encouraging everyone to be cagey on this front. OP already admits that most people find him odd. Thus, if he does get accused of sexual harassment or the like by a colleague, his chances of being presumed guilty from the outset are monumental

The OP admits to having GREAT interactions (just not to the point of them throwing themselves at him) with his co-workers on his job.

Do you want me to find the post where he said that? I think we must be reading two different things.

He is saying, most people OUTSIDE of work, OUTSIDE of his next door neighbour, find him odd.....because they do not know him. When they get to know him, as a warm lead, then they don't find him odd. Cold approaching is difficult for anyone. The chances of feeling someone will think you are odd with a cold approach are high for anyone doing this. Some people cold-approach 100 women and don't get a number. It's not an easy thing.

If someone chooses he doesn't want to take a risk, then I think comforting that choice by saying, you could get accussed of sexual harassment does more harm than good. Now, if he had the quality of interactions that I do, then there would be a point. However, even with my poor quality interactions and bold risks and moves taken, even I did not get falsely accused of anything. The OP is missing out.

 

[BaronOfHair]

There is a risk-reward ratio for everything

Thus, it's much more intelligent to pursue women in one of the millions of venues outside of work we have at our disposal, where the threat of being deprived of our careers based on an accusation as vague as "sexual harassment" isn't omnipresent

 

[Mike32ct]

I think this is very important in a thread like this. You are representative of average looking struggling guys and yet you don't have a problem dealing with women from work and see it as a net positive. The #Me-Too thing and sexual harassment thing is way to overblown and I don't know what is in the OP's head.

The OP is not even going out to lunch with his female co-workers depite the great interactions he has with them. He should do more to deepen the connections he already has with them.

Are you interested in any of your female friends at work sexually or are they not your type, or are taken?

I would say that being friends with women from work is low risk. The risk is potentially higher for dating or hooking up. So each guy needs to make their own decision on that.

For an average looking guy (I’m probably low 5), I think it’s better to be a friend/bro-zone guy at work than ignore women completely and risk being considered a creep. Having a female ally is probably good.

She’s not attracted to me, but considers me her best bro. She also has a bf. I accept that. She’s a good friend to me.

 

[corrector]

I would say that being friends with women from work is low risk. The risk is potentially higher for dating or hooking up. So each guy needs to make their own decision on that.

For an average looking guy (I’m probably low 5), I think it’s better to be a friend/bro-zone guy at work than ignore women completely and risk being considered a creep. Having a female ally is probably good.

She’s not attracted to me, but considers me her best bro. She also has a bf. I accept that. She’s a good friend to me.

She's not attracted to any other guy at work? I mean, if she threw herself on another co-worker, how would that make you feel?

Why would you say the risk is higher for dating and hooking-up? That means the lady is attracted to you. Why would a lady who is attracted to you cause any trouble?

 

[Mike32ct]

She's not attracted to any other guy at work? I mean, if she threw herself on another co-worker, how would that make you feel?

She has some mini-crushes (eg a guy with great hair lol) she’ll mention sometimes in passing conversation but that’s it. I’m over whoever she dates or not. Bothered me in the very beginning but I’m way past that now.

 

[corrector]

She has some mini-crushes (eg a guy with great hair lol) she’ll mention sometimes in passing conversation but that’s it. I’m over whoever she dates or not. Bothered me in the very beginning but I’m way past that now.

All childsplay. OP has nothing to worry about. He should warm approach and pursue his leads at work.

 

[Mike32ct]

Why would you say the risk is higher for dating and hooking-up? That means the lady is attracted to you. Why would a lady who is attracted to you cause any trouble?

If you know she’s solidly attracted to you and single, the risk probably is lower. If you ask a coworker out on a date but her interest level is so so or unclear, the risk is higher.

Even for female friends, they started inviting me out first. I’ll admit I was too chicken to suggest it first, even though friends getting lunch or happy hour is no big deal. Anyway I’ll stop there. Going too far afield lol.

 

[GoodMan32]

See, you didn't even listen. You think anything she said, as a woman, is just her talking your ear off.

She didn't make matters worse,
you made matters worse.

So what if you didn't like her? Should've listened to her.

I wouldn't want a male coworker talking my ear off at lunch either.

And I did listen to her (I pretty much had no choice).

I find her attractive (and would have been totally glad to listen to her in my bedroom after work)

 

[GoodMan32]

You mentioned breakroom. Is this a large room or small meeting room? You have no opportunity to sit beside another female co-worker and have lunch on the same table?

I always eat solo and have a special table where I'll bring out a Tablet, some days bring popcorn, and watch something on the Tablet and have a TV-dinner/or cinema experience with the popcorn in the middle of the work-shift. If I see there is a group of women chatting something interesting, I'll pause what I'm looking at, take off the headphones, and start listening to what is going on instead. If I feel a good vibe, I might get off from that table and approach them. If not, I might just stay there. There is a gay guy in the cafeteria that seems to dominate the social scene and talk with the women there (don't worry, I don't like most of the women so I don't feel that bad).

However, I might get a nice hi or greeting from a co-worker on route to the cafeteria or returning from the cafeteria, so it's supplements interactions that might be missing there. Generally, I think I'm the only guy that's doing that with a Tablet...which is like a smartphone on steroids, especially if you add popcorn, bluetooth headphones, and Tablet stand to the mix.

That being said, I do have a special playlist on youtube that consists of vlogs on different topics by women. If I want to feel like I'm eating with a woman, there is a variety of content on youtube that can mimic an experience of having lunch with someone. However, I have not recently felt triggered enough by anything in the cafeteria environment to go that far.

At least what you are doing does not sound common in my workplace....or maybe I'm a bit more extreme in creating a deeper solitary experience than average to compensate for the lack of social connection.



There you go. Try having a chat with a female co-worker in one of those places. The ones who are friendly with you and don't mind being in the same space. If a woman is willing to share a space like that with you, then she must be interested.

The breakroom is a pretty decent size. There are several tables. I theoretically could sit with a female coworker (if there were a female coworker in the breakroom at the same time as me). With how much room there is for us to spread out (and with how I don't typically dine with anyone), it would come off as somewhat strange though (The female coworker who would talk my ear off at lunch got fired at the beginning of 2021. A lot of current employees aren't even aware I used to dine with her, as a lot of our current employees weren't here yet back then).

Talking to a female coworker on one of the balconies is always an option, as you pointed out. If one happens to come onto the balcony at the same time as me.

I just thought of another possible reason you have even worse luck than me with the ladies: Supposedly Canadian broads are the one demographic more stuck up than American broads (at least that's what I read somewhere)

 

[GoodMan32]

Objectively, he is viewing himself as a 4 because he did not get laid since 2021.

Objectively, I'm viewing him as a 7 based on the quality of interactions with the opposite sex at work and his FAILURE to captalize on that opportunity. He would probably amog me. If he can't capitalize on opportunity then it's not a looks problem.



Looks help provide opportunity. What game do you really need if a woman is throwing herself on you? His issue is not a games issue, it's a internal rules issue. I know people say don't sh1t where you work, or don't dip pen on company ink, but in his case, that might not be a bad idea if he's getting allot of good attention from work. After all, how else is he supposed to meet anyone if he has no time?

It's like he has to be 100% sure a woman won't reject him in the front or back end before he can make any move as he can't handle a potential post-rejection scenario at work as it will make things too awkward. However, I have experienced that, and it's not the end of the world like he's making it out to be.

As for the handsy female coworker who would talk my ear off, I admit there were some possible clues of interest.

There were also some clues that our relationship had no potential of ever being anything more than platonic, however.

One time she told me something to the effect of "Don't think too much into my behavior. I'm old enough to be your mom."

Another time, she made a similar comment. She said she gets a lot of attention from 20-somethings (I myself was still late 20s at the time). She said she's turned down every 20-something that's made a move on her.

With both of those comments, it's like she could potentially sense I was into her (even though I never told her), and she was hinting that I don't have a chance with her.

Then here's perhaps the biggest clue: One time we went out to eat after work. The place we went to was about a mile from where I live. Even though she gave me a ride to the restaurant (we left straight from work; I don't own a car; she sort of had no choice), she didn't give me a ride home afterwards (she made a comment about how we were right along a public transportation line where I could catch a quick ride home). If she wanted sex with me, she would have offered me a ride home (even if she was ultimately going to leave it up to me whether to invite her inside once we got to my building)