Factors that get a man bumped down on the looks scale

[GoodMan32]

If I understand correctly, that's not looks.

Again, not looks.

You have different issues you're trying to deal with here, and frankly, very fixable.

I know social awkwardness and being on the spectrum aren't looks.

My point is they cause a woman to subconsciously rank me lower than my actual looks score.

I say this because I've had to date/bang some fatties before (solely because I had few to no other options).

Also, when I was in high school, there was a feature on Facebook where your Facebook friends could rate your looks. A female classmate rated me a 1. I guarantee she never even gave much thought to my actual looks. Her 1 rating was more a rating of my social standing at school (which reinforces my point: being on the spectrum/socially awkward can cause a broad to view you as unattractive no matter what your actual looks are)

 

[GoodMan32]

The thread caption is perhaps little silly as people have pointed out?
But yeah, looks alone are not enough. You really need game too.

And if you are on spectrum and are awkward socially, then just start putting effort into learning social skills.
Fixing your weakness will be immensely valuable for your whole life. Basic social skills are quite transferrable between pick up and other social settings like work/business too.

Positive side to using pick up to learn those is it's fast and efficient way to get the needed reps in. Perhaps, not the most easiest for your ego though..

I've gotten better with general social skills through the years.

Gaming a woman, on the other hand, requires your social skills to be on an entirely new level (which I'm not sure a man on the spectrum can reach)

 

[GoodMan32]

I disagree. Based on your feedback of how women are treating you, you are not being treated as a sub-5, but as a normie. You have very healthy interactions with the opposite sex. I actually envy you. You don't have the right to complain here. If you do, then trade places with me and then you'll experience how a sub-5 is treated.

My stories I've shared on here have taken place over the span of several years.

I admit I have better interactions than you. All I'm saying is I'm not as successful as you're making it sound (the fact I haven't had free sex since 2021 speaks volumes).

It's also important to take age into account. You have approximately 15 years on me, which could account for why I have better interactions. When you were my age (and younger), how were your interactions with the ladies (compared to mine)?

 

[inquisitor]

I know social awkwardness and being on the spectrum aren't looks.

My point is they cause a woman to subconsciously rank me lower than my actual looks score.

I say this because I've had to date/bang some fatties before (solely because I had few to no other options).

Also, when I was in high school, there was a feature on Facebook where your Facebook friends could rate your looks. A female classmate rated me a 1. I guarantee she never even gave much thought to my actual looks. Her 1 rating was more a rating of my social standing at school (which reinforces my point: being on the spectrum/socially awkward can cause a broad to view you as unattractive no matter what your actual looks are)

What are you on about?

You're fixating on your flaws instead of doing anything about them. You're making being part of the spectrum/socially awkward your only chance at having a personality. No wonder they see you below your looks score - it's because you don't seem to want to do anything to improve yourself, other than be bitter about the systems that disagree with your beliefs, and be more infatuated of the systems that agree with your own biases. Women can feel that kind of energy that you put out into the world, lowering your score further.

You don't have a personality because you're too busy fixating on what you already know. Let your fixation go and learn something new. Learn about women, at least.

You care too much about these applications that they're now controlling your looks rating. You wouldn't even know for sure now because you're confusing yourself where you should pay your attention to.

Socialize with other people, but don't talk. Listen instead. Disagree with them in your mind, but listen. Agree with them in your mind, but listen.

You won't learn anything if you only hear yourself.

Otherwise, stay prisoned in your hubris.

 

[inquisitor]

I've gotten better with general social skills through the years.

Gaming a woman, on the other hand, requires your social skills to be on an entirely new level (which I'm not sure a man on the spectrum can reach)

You're limiting yourself.

Anyone can game anyone.

Your only enemy is yourself.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I've heard the typical woman rates 80% of men below average.

As for my 7 rating, I didn't rate myself a 7. An AI looks rater did. I trust AI looks raters more than websites with live raters (because individual bias, as well as straight men rating other men, impacts your score on the typical looks rating website)

I gather the ‘7’ is a Self-rating, according to the article.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Whats the point of this topic? This place attracts more negative losers looking for excuses every day.

Men in America have our own version of the self-sabotaging mindset that's been endemic among non-whites and gays for decades: "The difficulties I'm having are MOSTLY due to The System being hopelessly rigged against folks of my skin color and sexual orientation. My insistence on Keeping It Real

around the office didn't play an outsized role in me not moving up the corporate ladder"


"My walking through the front door at Baltaire, then being promptly ejected/told to put on some more appropriate clothing, was due to homophobia, not the fact that I was wearing a leather vest with no shirt underneath, chains, and assless chaps"

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

I've gotten better with general social skills through the years.

Gaming a woman, on the other hand, requires your social skills to be on an entirely new level (which I'm not sure a man on the spectrum can reach)

What an awesome opportunity to learn then!

Let me tell you a little secret, when it comes to actual gaming, the people on the spectrum have certain advantages:

While normies are able to sense social cues unconsciously, it means that they don't actually register those, they just feel them. And let me assure you, it's much easier to stay unaffected by her behavior and to keep your frame, when you read the body posture, voice tone etc consciously and then decide by yourself how to react.

 

[corrector]

My stories I've shared on here have taken place over the span of several years.

I admit I have better interactions than you. All I'm saying is I'm not as successful as you're making it sound (the fact I haven't had free sex since 2021 speaks volumes).

It's also important to take age into account. You have approximately 15 years on me, which could account for why I have better interactions. When you were my age (and younger), how were your interactions with the ladies (compared to mine)?

Most of your positive interactions are from work. You are cautious to deal with anyone from work because you will have to continue to face them if you get rejected, amogged (she rejects you but throws herself to another coworker), or it does not work out.
It would make things awkward.

I did not have a full time job like that in 2009. I worked at a Real Estate office. There was no cafeteria or set up like a full time job. Therefore I can not compare full time job interactions with self employed interactions in a fair way.

That being said, not all interactions are bad. However, I feel like a 4 with mines whereas yours is like a 6.

The problem is you are expecting treatment like you are in the top 5%, of.chad tier when you are a normie. Most normies are not successful either like that.

What I am saying is it is not as bad as you are making it out to be. If you realize you are getting better interactions than I am, then you have a better chance of success then I do. Yet I am willing to take the risk and fail (still here by the way) and you are not. You might be missing out by not taking the chance.

What do you do for lunch at work? Do you use the cafeteria? Go out to eat? Alone? With other coworker(s)? You have places in the office where you can be alone with a lady?

 

[GoodMan32]

Most of your positive interactions are from work. You are cautious to deal with anyone from work because you will have to continue to face them if you get rejected, amogged (she rejects you but throws herself to another coworker), or it does not work out.
It would make things awkward.

I did not have a full time job like that in 2009. I worked at a Real Estate office. There was no cafeteria or set up like a full time job. Therefore I can not compare full time job interactions with self employed interactions in a fair way.

That being said, not all interactions are bad. However, I feel like a 4 with mines whereas yours is like a 6.

The problem is you are expecting treatment like you are in the top 5%, of.chad tier when you are a normie. Most normies are not successful either like that.

What I am saying is it is not as bad as you are making it out to be. If you realize you are getting better interactions than I am, then you have a better chance of success then I do. Yet I am willing to take the risk and fail (still here by the way) and you are not. You might be missing out by not taking the chance.

What do you do for lunch at work? Do you use the cafeteria? Go out to eat? Alone? With other coworker(s)? You have places in the office where you can be alone with a lady?

For lunch at work, I typically dine solo in the breakroom. Dining solo is pretty common at my workplace; there's no stigma (in fact, some employees want so much solitude, they eat in their car).

Even though I wasn't in the workforce yet 20 years ago, I'd venture to guess breaks/lunch at work were more social 20 years ago. I blame smartphones for why solo breaks/lunch have become the norm (for a lot of employees, break/lunch are a time to be on your smartphone; not to talk to others).

Sometimes I go to a place on the ground floor of my office building that sells food (it's a lot like a Starbucks, only locally-owned).

On a previous post, I've mentioned a handsy female coworker I trained back in 2020. She'd invite herself to join me for lunch. Even though I found her attractive, I viewed her joining me as an aggravation. I'm guilty of wanting to be left to my own devices (pun intended) with my phone on break/lunch.

Her joining me (err, inviting herself to join me) was especially frustrating on days when I dined at the locally-owned Starbucks-like place. As it is, we're pressed on time by the time we order/get our food. Then to make matters worse, she'd talk my ear off for the entire 30 minutes.

To answer your question of whether there are any places in my office where I can be alone with a female coworker, we have some balconies connected to our office. Other than that, the only place I can really be alone with a woman is a female manager's office.

 

[inquisitor]

Her joining me (err, inviting herself to join me) was especially frustrating on days when I dined at the locally-owned Starbucks-like place. As it is, we're pressed on time by the time we order/get our food. Then to make matters worse, she'd talk my ear off for the entire 30 minutes.

See, you didn't even listen. You think anything she said, as a woman, is just her talking your ear off.

She didn't make matters worse,
you made matters worse.

So what if you didn't like her? Should've listened to her.

 

[corrector]

For lunch at work, I typically dine solo in the breakroom. Dining solo is pretty common at my workplace; there's no stigma (in fact, some employees want so much solitude, they eat in their car).

You mentioned breakroom. Is this a large room or small meeting room? You have no opportunity to sit beside another female co-worker and have lunch on the same table?

I always eat solo and have a special table where I'll bring out a Tablet, some days bring popcorn, and watch something on the Tablet and have a TV-dinner/or cinema experience with the popcorn in the middle of the work-shift. If I see there is a group of women chatting something interesting, I'll pause what I'm looking at, take off the headphones, and start listening to what is going on instead. If I feel a good vibe, I might get off from that table and approach them. If not, I might just stay there. There is a gay guy in the cafeteria that seems to dominate the social scene and talk with the women there (don't worry, I don't like most of the women so I don't feel that bad).

However, I might get a nice hi or greeting from a co-worker on route to the cafeteria or returning from the cafeteria, so it's supplements interactions that might be missing there. Generally, I think I'm the only guy that's doing that with a Tablet...which is like a smartphone on steroids, especially if you add popcorn, bluetooth headphones, and Tablet stand to the mix.

That being said, I do have a special playlist on youtube that consists of vlogs on different topics by women. If I want to feel like I'm eating with a woman, there is a variety of content on youtube that can mimic an experience of having lunch with someone. However, I have not recently felt triggered enough by anything in the cafeteria environment to go that far.

At least what you are doing does not sound common in my workplace....or maybe I'm a bit more extreme in creating a deeper solitary experience than average to compensate for the lack of social connection.

To answer your question of whether there are any places in my office where I can be alone with a female coworker, we have some balconies connected to our office. Other than that, the only place I can really be alone with a woman is a female manager's office.

There you go. Try having a chat with a female co-worker in one of those places. The ones who are friendly with you and don't mind being in the same space. If a woman is willing to share a space like that with you, then she must be interested.

 

[Gamisch]

I feel like your main issue is that you view YOURSELF as a 4 rather than a 7.

Time to start being honest with yourself. There's something you do or don't do that's keeping you in this mindset. Can be career, physical, and /or mental stuff.

Because yes, it's definitely true that in this day and age looks alone won't do shyte unless you can back it up with some game. Let's focus in the first paragraph though.

 

[corrector]

I feel like your main issue is that you view YOURSELF as a 4 rather than a 7.

Objectively, he is viewing himself as a 4 because he did not get laid since 2021.

Objectively, I'm viewing him as a 7 based on the quality of interactions with the opposite sex at work and his FAILURE to captalize on that opportunity. He would probably amog me. If he can't capitalize on opportunity then it's not a looks problem.

Because yes, it's definitely true that in this day and age looks alone won't do shyte unless you can back it up with some game.

Looks help provide opportunity. What game do you really need if a woman is throwing herself on you? His issue is not a games issue, it's a internal rules issue. I know people say don't sh1t where you work, or don't dip pen on company ink, but in his case, that might not be a bad idea if he's getting allot of good attention from work. After all, how else is he supposed to meet anyone if he has no time?

It's like he has to be 100% sure a woman won't reject him in the front or back end before he can make any move as he can't handle a potential post-rejection scenario at work as it will make things too awkward. However, I have experienced that, and it's not the end of the world like he's making it out to be.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Even though I wasn't in the workforce yet 20 years ago, I'd venture to guess breaks/lunch at work were more social 20 years ago. I blame smartphones for why solo breaks/lunch have become the norm (for a lot of employees, break/lunch are a time to be on your smartphone; not to talk to others)

Nah... Then as now, they're as social as those in the break room allow them to be



"I'm guilty of wanting to be left to my own devices (pun intended) with my phone on break/lunch"

Fair inference: Like most men who've either gone MGTOW or are MGTOW-esque, you're guilty of wanting to be left alone with your devices more generally(not just at work), while simultaneously cursing society for not being nicer/more accommodating to you. You fellas have a decision to make:

-Stick to your devices, and confine yourselves to online communities filled with folks who already think and behave exactly as you do. Ya know, online communities where anyone who dares ask "Fuc-ed up as society is, might we also be engaging in behaviors that drive the rest of humanity away?", are promptly banned

Or

-Engage in an ounce of piercing self-reflection, then be man enough to say: "If I want not just women, but people more generally to not find me ugly, these are the behavioral patterns I must either modify or rid myself of", then write out a list of said behavioral patterns. None of this is easy, nonetheless it is quite simple




"Then to make matters worse, she'd talk my ear off for the entire 30 minutes"

When you're the sort of guy who starts threads like this https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...me-to-try-with-making-moves-in-person.282277/ , the likes of which drag on for 19 pages and counting, you attract women who are similarly irritating





"To answer your question of whether there are any places in my office where I can be alone with a female coworker, we have some balconies connected to our office. Other than that, the only place I can really be alone with a woman is a female manager's office"

Anyone who thinks workplace dating is now less hazardous to a man's health just because MeToo's star is fading is in for a rude awakening. This was ill-advised long before the word "sexual harassment" even entered our lexicon, and it will continue to be

 

[corrector]

Anyone who thinks workplace dating is now less hazardous to a man's health just because MeToo's star is fading is in for a rude awakening. This was ill-advised long before the word "sexual harassment" even entered our lexicon, and it will continue to be

How do you figure that? Before dating apps/internet dating, quite a number of people met their SO's through the workplace.

 

[zekko]

Height is the main one

I've been reading Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time books recently. I've long been a fan of Tolkien and his work. Those two are probably the most popular fantasy genre authors. Fantasy deals with these mythical, larger than life beings. In Tolkien's Middle Earth, the grandest beings, the Elves, and the grandest men, the Numenoreans were described as being very tall. Aragorn the king, a descendant of the Numenoreans, is very tall. In The Wheel of Time, the main character is also described as very tall, and stands out from other men because of it.

I just bring this up to point out that being tall is seen as a mark of being greater and better than other men, even in fantasy novels. I'm of average height myself, so I can't really speak to what it must be like being tall. A friend of mine is 6' 6" IIRC, and I remember when he was younger he didn't have to try to get women, they would come to him. Now that we're in our '60s, I don't think it has the same effect, but whatever.

 

[Mike32ct]

I’ve never dated at work, so I’m kind of neutral on that one. But having female friends from work has been a positive in my experience.

 

[corrector]

I’ve never dated at work, so I’m kind of neutral on that one. But having female friends from work has been a positive in my experience.

The lady you wrote about having gone out to lunch with, in a previous post, was that the female friend from work you were referring to?

 

[BaronOfHair]

How do you figure that? Before dating apps/internet dating, quite a number of people met their SO's through the workplace.

And lots of folks have gotten behind the wheel piss-faced without killing someone or ending up a quadrupalegic. Doesn't mean such things are wise to do