Ex still in the pic: sh*t test, disrespect, or other?

[Dash Riprock]

I’ve been seeing someone for 6 months. Over the course of our relationship, she has shown high IL; lots of affection, sex, emails, never cancelled a date, always up for what I recommend, etc. We’ve taken 3 road trips, she stays over almost every sat. night into Sunday. I’ve employed the DJ principles of Confidence, Control, & Challenge from Day One. My main M.O. is to show her a great time when we’re together, back off for a bit, one call during the week maybe a couple emails, the occasional have a great day “surprise” text message—you get the picture.

She continues to show very high IL by her actions, words, kino, sexual output, etc. I’m 42, she’s 31.

I have two issues though:

Her ex-husband is still in the picture; with regular frequency, from what I gather.

We’ve never really talked about it as I don’t want to come across as overbearing or insecure, asking all kinds of questions about her guy friends. She’s never offered any info either. I’ll give a little background and try to keep it brief: The Girl (T) was married to The Ex (G) for maybe 2 years from what I can patch together based on what I know. Another friend of mine said he broke it off with her because he didn’t lover her any more—this is from a reliable source. I know her Ex (G) from my gym. He’s an OK guy (seems to be a non-DJ as he’s asked me for dating advice before; stands 5’4 with small stature and comes across a bit effeminate—just my take), but I talk to him when he’s there, causal conversation. About a year ago, before I met my current Girl (T) the Ex told me “Hey, I think my divorce is final today. But it’s cool, we’re still good friends. Maybe you know her, (T). So, she’s out there now.” I told him I was on the dating wagon at the time, taking a break.

Fast forward 4 mos. and I did ask her out and we’ve been together ever since; taking it slow, having a blast, good sex, a pretty solid relationship for the 6 month point.

But, Ex (G) remains in the picture big time. She bought him xmas gifts, called him on xmas, he has a folder on her computer (easy to see), is on her speed dial in her phone (also easy to see) and they do chat at the gym even when all 3 of us are there working out. I’m also pretty sure they get together with frequency—read below.

Another concern is her continuing to refer to some people as “a friend of mine” w/o giving a name. For example, I talked with her last night on the phone. She said she ran into “a friend of hers” at Whole Foods and had a bite to eat with “him.” Never mentioned a name, who he was etc. Then, after we set up our weekend plan, she said she was having dinner with “a friend” on Friday night. I’m assuming it’s the Ex (G) in both cases as generally she gives a name if it’s one of her girlfriends.

I didn’t ask who the “friends” were or anything (employing the Control technique) and just said, “Oh, cool.” Hindsight is always 20/20, so I’m thinking I should have, but would like some DJ thoughts first on how to voice/state. I don't want to show one eyota of jealousy--even though everyone (DJs included) feels this from time to time.

My main concerns are these:

1- The Ex (G) is still is the picture big time and she has never offered any info re: their situation. I’ve never asked either as to not look insecure, etc. She has never even spoken his name around me. I have never given her any reason to think I’m the jealous type or anything similar—I have NEVER questioned her on who she was with, where she went, anything, EVER, when she brings up “the friend” get-togethers. I’d like to get to the bottom of the deal with the Ex (G) (frankly, I’m confused how they can be SUCH GOOD FRIENDS and have gotten divorced—I can’t speak from experience on this one).

2- I also have an issue with the fact that she keeps referring to people as “a friend”, keeping me in the dark on who, nature of friendship etc., after 6 months. Maybe she feels it’s none of my business, or more likely, it’s some kind of a sh*t test and why she doesn’t feel comfortable giving her “friends” a name when we talk. I’m fairly secure in this relationship with her based on her actions, but want some answers and am frankly a little PO’ed on her continual use of “a friend” BS.

Any DJ advice as to how to approach these two topics with her, what/how to say, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I usually see solid responses here to issues like this one. New territory to me.

Best,

Dash

 

[aliasguy]

You're acting fine with her. Keep doing what you are doing.

But you're THINKING wrong. Forget all this cr*p. Enjoy your time with her, and forget about her ex, her "friends," everything.

You two have a thing going on. She has other "things" going on, too. You should, also.

 

[DavenJuan]

thats the problem with a lot of people here. they look at the CONTROL aspect of it, and let things happen that normally they would not find acceptable.

Friend of mine this and that. if you in fact find this term to be used so loosely to the point where you think it is more of a evasive way to NOT answer then that is not showing control by ACTING like it doesnt bother you.

CONTROL is having control of yourself, not control over her. none the less, if something bothers you, let her know.

as far as this odd relationship with the ex. everyone is an EX for a reason. you will hear this a thousand times on these boards. what need is this relationship with him? do they have children together?

the bottom line is communication. there needs to be some clarity around EVERYTHYIHNG and dont expect it if you wont ask.

 

[Dash Riprock]

DaveJuan,

Yes, agreed. When I use the term CONTROL it refers to SELF CONTROL--a HUGE DJ cornerstone principle. This is why I have never questioned her on her use of "a friend", who she's out with, anything.

Re: her need for a relationship with the Ex, no, they do not have children, property, anything together really. It appears just to be a very strong platonic relationship -- she has just never talked anything about it and has never even brought up his name.

Just looking for thoughts from DJs who have has similar experiences, what the deal was, and how they addressed it in DJ fashion—if at all.

 

[Interceptor]

Dash, buddy..from the lengths you went to describe every little detail and your outlook, I would have to say that you are wanting or NEEDING a solution. And you seem to be wanting that solution to be form within her. I kind of suspect that yeah, you seem to be in an insecure 'need to control' this situation frame of mind.
You cannot control her, her thoughts, or her actions.
So what should the solution come from?
Inside you. Your SELF. Only YOU can 'control' how you perceive this 'situation".

I know this worries you, It brings anxiety and stress.
But most of the time, those feelings come from when we look at things outside of ourselves, things that we cannot control.


Now it is perfectly acceptable to not want your GF to be so 'close' to another man.
And it is perfectly acceptable to assert yoursefl and what your standards, and criteria for a happy, and fulfilling relationship.

And yes, you are right, we do not want to approach her too directly with this.

So you are going to have to be more subtle in bringing this up.

Now, this is going to hurt, buddy.......

You've been with her for 6 months. In that time it appears you have sacrificed your Personal Boundary to be with her and stay with her.
You seem to have neglected asserting what your criteria and standards are form the beginning.
This is going to be very hard to pull off because if you bring it up NOW, you WILL start to appear 'insecure" and jealous. Why?
Because it is incongruent to how you 'played' it in the beginning.

You have two different behaviors. "Mr. Cool guy" , and now, "Mr Insecure guy".
And she will notice.
Why?
Because you didn't 'set the frame" from the beginning, IMO.

Now, I read the part where you said you are 'new' at this. Hence, now you have a dilemma, you perhaps you didn't foresee.
But , let's just be strong right now...be very strong and admit a mistake.

Admit it, and own it, be responisible.

IF..and IF you truly weren't 'being yourself", you were 'acting" and NOT "BEING" your true self, and NOW you find the things tha had alwsysd bothered you fromt he beginning and you still took no action, then you have to realize that you MUST BE your SELF, EVEN if that MEANS YOU WAKL AWAY and "LOSE" the girl.
Because look at the situation you are in NOW.

Now, I coudl be wrong here, if so, you know what? I hope I AM wrong about it.
But, lesson learned, set the Frame from the Beginning. "This is what I want. And if I am not getting it, I walk away. Becasue I am not a slave to the pbvssy, and am in control of my desires. I am NOT desperate or NEEDY. I can let her go."

You start to see things that DO bother you. And you want to correct this so that YOU can be 'happy". When you know in your heart, you probably had all the signs form the beginning, but you didn't assert your boundary then.
Now you realize that 'Hey, I can't seem to let this go,I really am being affected by this sh*t!"
Now, you probably feel you're with your Dream girl and there are 'deal breakers" floating around.

This is why I said to start some movement towards a little bit of Emotional Detachment.
That way you can start to feel less invested in the outcome and hoiw she acts. So that you can still be happy with yourself and your life.
I still say you should confront her, but very subtlely.


Next time you see her walk away when she takes those phonme calss you can joke and say : "So..how was your boyfriend? How's he doing today?"

Stay calm, no matter what she says or does. She will look at you for a moment and wonder what you're thinking, if you'rer SERIOUS or not,and then she may start to laugh it off, to ease the tension.
But be cool, and calm.
She cannot break yo.
And you are 100 percent in the RIGHT.


Whatever she says say something like: "No, I just figured you two need some privacy to talk about your initmate love secrets, so I figured you need some space. By the way, darling, I'm going to talk to that beautiful cashier over there. "
And laugh...
But be serious at the same time.
Be subtle be cool.
Dont let her guilt trip you. She will. She will probably get annoyed and start the "Why are you so insecure??!!' speech, and try to guilt you and emasculate you in to submitting to her whims.

Be careful. Wnen you put her on the spot, you will see a change in her behavior. You're putting her in to a corner. Watch her. Watch how your woman reacts under pressure.

I wish you the best, Dash.
Keep us updated.
We are here to help, bro. I mean it.

 

[joekerr31]

she's just trying to get your attention by letting you know that she's out there interacting with other people - implying that she has other options and as such a high market value ergo you should see and treat her like the prize.

its game playing.

her ultimate goal is to attain the upper hand in your relationship. to get you thinking that she is the prize and that you should do whatever you have to to keep her.

as for the ex husband.....

it sounds to me like she probably initiated the divorce. she probably reached a point where she felt 'im tired of this. i want to go back out into the world and have some fun. but i'll keep my AFC on the side just in case the world isn't what i thought it was and i need to get back in to a committed relationship."

its ABSURD to suggest that two people who get divorced are still 'good friends'. im not saying it doesn't happen, but it happens maybe 1% of the time. if there are children involved then its a different story and it might happen 40% of the time or thereabouts.

but generally speaking, when people get divorced, they go their seperate ways when kids aren't involved. the reason is that there are very few guys who want to be 'friends' with their ex wife - i mean, who wants to be the emotional tampon to their ex knowing that some other dude is pounding her ass every night. only major AFCs hang on to being friends after a divorce.

so anyway, this woman is merely using the Sex in the city method - which is to be 'independent' while at the same time keeping as many men around her as possible.

as long as you are just looking for a good time and to get laid, this girl seems to be fine.

if you are looking for a serious committed relationship, it doesn't sound like she's ready for that. right now her life is about HER, not you, not the ex, etc - you are all just men who play different roles in HER life right now.

the concern you should have is not about her, but rather about yourself. this chic has clearly learned the value of keeping men around - they are like safety nets - and i seriously doubt she will give up those safety nets even if your relationship moves from casual to serious.

so my view on this situation is that for a fun time she seems right up your alley. if you are looking for a mature committed relationship, she's probably going to bring a lot of headaches to the table.

 

[MacAvoy]

Interceptor gave some great advice on how to approach it if you want to confront it as a DJ. I propose another option.

Question 1

Are you happy, does she make you happy?

If no, then cut bait & move on

If yes,

if she truly has high IL as you state, then she isn't running around

I've been the ex in many times, banging her while she has other men, however whenever she had high IL in another man, I always encountered sever resistance.

Sure there are always signs but there usually easy to miss. If you want, you can focus all your energy on looking for signs, but then your not enjoying your relationship, your looking for an excuse to end it.

So do you want to be happy or do you want to look for an excuse to end your relationship? Who cares if she's cheating on you, what you don't know, won't hurt you, however if there becomes glaring signs, then bail, but don't waste your emotions on something you can't control.

Like they said above, you can only control yourself. To me, it sounds like the problem is you, you have insecurity issues. However don't think I'm harping on you, your doing great, your putting this skills to work and its paying off in spades to you. You've got a great relationship with a great women. However she also seems to know the game very well, that was my biggest problem with my last LTR, she was a better player than I was, once I gave up the power early in the relationship and could never get it back.

edit: Joker also added some valuable insight, the good ole branch swinging, good women players constantly do it. However like I said as long as your keeping her attracted, they are just there as backups, however, like Joker says I don't think she's ready to settle if she's branch swinging. She's also trying to make you put her on a pedastool, always remain the prize.

Right now you have the power, don't give it back. Don't be insecure. Enjoy life man, don't fret.

 

[reset]

she's just trying to get your attention by letting you know that she's out there interacting with other people - implying that she has other options and as such a high market value ergo you should see and treat her like the prize.

its game playing.

her ultimate goal is to attain the upper hand in your relationship. to get you thinking that she is the prize and that you should do whatever you have to to keep her.

I thought chicks did this when they weren't sure of your interest in them and were trying to bait you into some sort of action that would confirm how much you cared. Which is kind of what you're saying I guess?

I've had enough jealousy games thrown at me like this. I always thought it meant I wasn't being agressive enough with the chick and she was saying "you know there are other guys out there so don't pretend you aren't interested because someone else will snatch me up".

But you're saying that's games and a girl trying to have control... not necessarily trying to have a healthy relationship. Does this mean that girls who cared about you wouldn't always try to make you f'ing jealous and rub in your face how many guys seem to like them? Or am I just used to bytchy women? My aloofness ALWAYS brings out this jealousy crap. :box:

Not to derail. I had to post this though.

 

[vorbis]

Dash how serious are you planning on getting with this chick?

At present, her actions are fine. She is showing you a very high IL and judging by her actions, treating you very well. I'd say its also reasonable to infer (always with her at weekends, no missed dates) that she's not seeing anyone else. The time doesn't seem to be there for it.

If ye start getting more serious, then she should start giving a bit more info about "some friend" she meets up with. But tbh it could be as simple as her not giving names as you don't know the friend. I would tell my gf about something I do with a friend but wouldn't tell her the name if she didn't know the person. Its not unusual.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...CONTROL is having control of yourself, not control over her. none the less, if something bothers you, let her know....

Why does that sound oddly familiar?

...
as far as this odd relationship with the ex. everyone is an EX for a reason. you will hear this a thousand times on these boards. what need is this relationship with him? do they have children together?

Unless the guy was an abusive @sshole or some other type of problematic pr1ck, women will often attempt to keep a "friendly" connection to their ex (if he lets her). It doesn't matter if they have children either. Women do this because women value the relationships they've cultivated, some even define themselves by how well they can sustain relationships with their past "special" relationships.

...
the bottom line is communication. there needs to be some clarity around EVERYTHYIHNG and dont expect it if you wont ask.

True but I'd challenge whether this relationship as it stands merits an explanation. Dash and this woman are "seeing" one another, they aren't dating despite the fact that they've been seeing each other for six months.

This does point to the importance of what you've said about communication or at least the actions Dash and this woman are taking. Dash, what have you done to lead this woman into perceiving you as just another one of her guy pals? I'll tell you right now that the long weekends you've spent together doesn't count and the sex doesn't count.

Stepping back a bit Dash, what exactly do you want? In your post you never said what you want from this woman. Do you want her to just stop interacting with other guys and nothing else? Do you want to know who these guys are and nothing else? Do you want your relationship to change from what it is now and if so what do you want?

The way that I see it is that you are with a woman who enjoys your company and respects you as a "special" friend. Beyond that there isn't much else and I'm feeling that is what she feels too. Test or not, it is what it is. Until you decide what you want and begin acting in that manner, things will not change from what you've established to this point.

 

[joekerr31]

But you're saying that's games and a girl trying to have control... not necessarily trying to have a healthy relationship. Does this mean that girls who cared about you wouldn't always try to make you f'ing jealous and rub in your face how many guys seem to like them? Or am I just used to bytchy women? My aloofness ALWAYS brings out this jealousy crap. :box:

well there are different views on this. i like to say there are 'quality' or 'mature' women - but lots of guys here disagree with those labels and argue all women basically are the same.

but yes, i do believe there are women out there who grow out of the whole game playing phase. i believe it because ive seen it. i've been with a variety of women who have come straight out and told me what they are looking for once our relationship had hit a certain stage. they didn't do silly things like start telling me about lunches they had with other guys to try and make me jealous.

 

[MacAvoy]

Stepping back a bit Dash, what exactly do you want? In your post you never said what you want from this woman... Do you want your relationship to change from what it is now and if so what do you want?

This is the most important factor. It sounds like you want more, the minute you exibit that, you will give her the power and from everything you've posted, she's a good player and will turn you into minced meat, chew on you, then spit you out. Then she'll likely try turn you into another friend branch like her ex. Moral of the story, take a step bac, don't rush into a relationship, always make the women make the first move.

The way that I see it is that you are with a woman who enjoys your company and respects you as a "special" friend. Beyond that there isn't much else and I'm feeling that is what she feels too. Test or not, it is what it is. Until you decide what you want and begin acting in that manner, things will not change from what you've established to this point.

I agree with Francisco's assessment of her, you've got to keep playing the game, eventually her women's intuition should kick in and she should want to tie you down. How old is she?

 

[reset]

... they didn't do silly things like start telling me about lunches they had with other guys to try and make me jealous.

Good. I guess I'm just use to dealing with selfish chicks and drama, but I'm not going to just assume they are all like that. This is why qualifying is important instead of adapting to their frame just to "hold onto them".

 

[joekerr31]

Good. I guess I'm just use to dealing with selfish chicks and drama, but I'm not going to just assume they are all like that. This is why qualifying is important instead of adapting to their frame just to "hold onto them".

ya. keep in mind that i have perhaps unusual means of qualifying a woman.

like for instance, if i take a woman out and i say 'its a tragedy what happened to bhutto don't you think?"

and she says "is that the guy who got sent to jail for having dogs fight?"

right then and there i expect nothing from her moving forward. she becomes nothing more than a sex toy in my mind.

 

[reset]

Lol. I think I'm just going to assume they are all sex toys until they prove otherwise. Nothing wrong with a sex toy.

 

[MR_PERFECT]

Dash how serious are you planning on getting with this chick?

At present, her actions are fine. She is showing you a very high IL and judging by her actions, treating you very well. I'd say its also reasonable to infer (always with her at weekends, no missed dates) that she's not seeing anyone else. The time doesn't seem to be there for it.

If ye start getting more serious, then she should start giving a bit more info about "some friend" she meets up with. But tbh it could be as simple as her not giving names as you don't know the friend. I would tell my gf about something I do with a friend but wouldn't tell her the name if she didn't know the person. Its not unusual.

Sometimes, the guys on here don't give women enough credit. I disagree, her actions are not fine. Listen to me very carefully: All women with a certain amount of experience and/or age know that a significant other wouldn't like them spending time with someone of the opposite sex, because they wouldn't like it if the situation were reversed. She has the upper-hand in the relationship, you are not at boyfriend level yet, and you may never be. The second she upgrades your status, all this talk of meeting up with other guys will suddenly stop.

 

[Mr. Me]

I'd have to question why a woman who's with me needs to talk to her ex so much and see him and buy him gifts. Not question her, but question what's the deal, because it seems to me that an ex is an ex for a reason. It didn't work out. So, I'd think why, if you're with a guy now where it is working out, do you need to have anything to do with an ex where it didn't work out? Because he's a great friend? What kind of a friend to her can he possibly be?

So my thinking is, first of all, it's disrespectful to the current man in her life. She ought to be thinking, "I really shouldn't be hanging out with ex lovers. I have a boyfriend to consider". Making sure she doesn't cross any borders and keeping you first should be her priority, not her ex husband. Even if the ex is harmless. But that leads to my next thought, which is, male exes don't usually stay in touch because they just want to be a friend. They're hanging around to find their opportunity back in.

And to whatever degree she may be or get emotionally invested in him, that's that much that she's emotionally unavailable to you. This is how affairs start.

And her use of the gender-neutral word "friend"... she KNOWS that she shouldn't be hanging out with this guy and so she avoids mentioning that it's him, but she's letting you know it anyway, and that their activity seems to be stepping up. I don't like that she's letting you know that (besides not liking that she's in such frequent contact with him). I also don't like that she's never offered you any information about him, though he's supposedly one of her good friends. Doesn't ring right.

You say that you're secure in the relationship by her actions? Are you certain you're taking ALL her actions into account, or just the ones that make you feel secure?

I don't think you're being quite challenge you used to be or think you are. You may be on the way out and she's letting you know that while she shops for your replacement.

You should be the cool dude about it, and secure in yourself, yes, but that doesn't mean these women and exes aren't a slippery slope that can't bite you in the ass someday.

I'd back off and hang out with other women:

If she's doing this to get you jealous, you don't need a woman like that in your life.

If she keeps the ex around because she has a high need for male attention, you don't need that kind of woman in your life.

If you're not going to mind and turn a blind eye to this so that you're the confident DJ and invest more time together with her - and some day this does bite you in the ass - you're going to realize you spent a lot of life wasted on the wrong person to be with.

If she sees you've backed off and feels the void and senses she's losing you and it means more to her than her ex does, then she'll stop hanging with the ex and realize that she can lose you if she does these sort of things.

Or just find a woman who is more into you than settle for one who isn't.

 

[logic1]

True but I'd challenge whether this relationship as it stands merits an explanation. Dash and this woman are "seeing" one another, they aren't dating despite the fact that they've been seeing each other for six months.

Ok, I have something to learn here.

How do you come to the conclusion they are not dating? Which I'm not disputing but what did Dash say to make you assume this? I'm 46 and green to dating so this could be a big help down the road.

 

[frivolousz21]

she is 31 years old...

spending time with you, ****ing you, having a blast as you put it...then I read this:

But, Ex (G) remains in the picture big time. She bought him xmas gifts, called him on xmas, he has a folder on her computer (easy to see), is on her speed dial in her phone (also easy to see) and they do chat at the gym even when all 3 of us are there working out. I’m also pretty sure they get together with frequency—read below.

Are you Freaking kidding me?

look..I am only 25....but I am not seeing this stuff....I've had 4-5 women who loved me..really loved me...from ages 17-now....and at the time they loved me...I was it...there was no Ex's, or anything to worry about..loyalty and honesty was number 1.

Not one time did I ever catch one of those women cheating on me or lying to me. NEVER.

your getting played in some way or another something is terribly wrong here...

she has ZERO reason to be friends with some guy she married and had a divorce with..when they do not have kids.

6 months?...and you have to sit there while she chats up her X in front of you at the gym?

you have to deal with her giving her X HUSBAND CHRISTMAS GIFTS?

WTF IS THAT.

this is a raw deal for you man...I hope it works out..but you shouldnt be settling for this

 

[wjh]

like for instance, if i take a woman out and i say 'its a tragedy what happened to bhutto don't you think?"

and she says "is that the guy who got sent to jail for having dogs fight?"

right then and there i expect nothing from her moving forward. she becomes nothing more than a sex toy in my mind.

You must be a lonely man