Everything you need to know about martial arts!

[daddymonsterpoodle]

I have been a doorman for years and dabbled in some martial arts. BJJ is not one I would use. If I went to the ground in a bar, nightclub, or outside on the street. I would be risking tetanus and getting sh-t kicked by the friends of whoever I was removing. Writlocks and arm bars are also problematic in a crowded room against a hostile opponent.

Learning a quick rear naked choke (rear sleeper) will literally save your life. Even big men need to breathe and can do f-ck all if they are off balance.

I would love to see your opinion of Krav Maga. That seems effective.

 

[Bible_Belt]

KM is actually very similar to Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, which is what the Samurai used to defend Japan for hundreds of years. Crotch kick, eye gouge, throat shot...all the dirty tricks. The problem when wanting to train, though, is that you never know who is good and who is full of sh!t, because there are no competitions. Con artists are thus drawn to arts in which they don't have to prove anything. There's nothing wrong with KM as an art, but you have to put a lot of diligence into making sure you're not just getting conned out of your money.

 

[Ratiocinative]

I have been a doorman for years and dabbled in some martial arts. BJJ is not one I would use. If I went to the ground in a bar, nightclub, or outside on the street. I would be risking tetanus and getting sh-t kicked by the friends of whoever I was removing. Writlocks and arm bars are also problematic in a crowded room against a hostile opponent.

Learning a quick rear naked choke (rear sleeper) will literally save your life. Even big men need to breathe and can do f-ck all if they are off balance.

I would love to see your opinion of Krav Maga. That seems effective.

No martial art is going to nullify a numbers advantage. Perhaps against multiple untrained opponents a fast striking discipline like Krav Maga may be your best bet, but going up against multiple opponents is always a bad idea. Maybe you can get lucky and knock one out quickly to even the numbers, but you're still at risk of getting knocked out too. If you're going to be outnumbered you better bring a gun.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

I have a double black belt in diplomacy and bluff. That has saved my ass even more times than a good choke hold.

 

[ubercat]

Got an interesting case now I'd like people's opinions on.

Long story short got a giant fat nerdy friend who I've tried to get into all kinds of Sports. Anyway I tried to teach him some basic boxing and he seems to like that.

My question is what should I teach the guy for basic self defence.

Now the main thing is Fitness and it has to be simple stuff.

Because he's 1.95 and big I was thinking not to bother with kicking.

I've never seen kicking cause any damage in the street. And he's so big he can just punch at most people's kicking range.

So my initial thinking was basic boxing + knees elbows and sidestepping. And teach him that if anyone tries to wrestle with him just lower his weight down. He is so big he could just throw them around at that point.

Suggestions?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Boxing is good for a big guy. If he is fat, then his balance will be poor. Good footwork is important to keep his balance and not fall down. One of the shortcomings of boxing as a street fighting technique is that as soon as you learn to punch, it gets real easy to break your hand. Boxing gloves exist to protect hands, not the faces they punch. Open-palm striking is a lot safer. Once you break a hand with a boxer's fracture, it will never be the same, and it will always break much more easily after the first time.

As for kicking, the general rule is to keep it below the waist. A snap-kick to the nuts is the best kick. More important is defending it; his fighting stance needs to be adjusted so that he can twist just a little to block that nut kick with his knees as it comes up. It's called "covering your center line."

It's fine to have striking as his main art, but you still need to cover basic ground game. Even if the plan is to stand, everyone falls down at some point. If he doesn't know how to shrimp & escape mount, then it's all over as soon as someone sits on him. It's the same with knowing how to not give up his back. If I'm a little guy fighting a big guy, I'm looking for the choke, either rear naked or guillotine. He will want to know how to defend against those moves.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

How serious a situation do you want him to be able to survive? If it is a bar punch up, then a good guard, an ok jab and a right cross will take him a long way.
Everybody could benefit from learning a rear sleeper and defence against it. Avoiding a kick in the nuts is good but a good guard could help with that.
If he is going to learn a kick the two he should learn are the front snap and the stomp (to smash knees, cause pain to shins or break foot bones).

If we are talking fight for your life situations then don't bother with techniques. Anything goes, elbows, slapping, breaking collarbones (hammerfist or chop) throatstrikes, eyegouges, breaking fingers (suprisingly effective), broken bottles, biting.... Just go hard till the other person is incapacitated or just not keen anymore.

Your friend would actually be suprisingly good at wrestling or BJJ and even judo would be good. He has reach and weight and leverage.

Have you ever tried to move a 140kg guy off you who is just lying limp. It is hard work.

Good luck to you both.

 

[ubercat]

Thanks heaps guys. Always difficult to keep it simple but know what to cover

he'll get bored of training just with me eventually you need the power of the group. So the goal is just to make sure that he has some good basics and then get him into a decent Club.

@Bible_Belt

I chose boxing coz it works well with the mitts. I will take on board what u said about broken hands. I will cut his attacking combos down to a jab and body punches. At his size he should have enough power to make those effective even if the guy is wearing a jacket. And he can easily elbow to the Head at punching range.

I started teaching him in a kickboxing stance with the front foot turned in a little specifically for the kick to the nuts. Agree that's the first thing a lot of guys will try with the big guy.

My thinking is that if I teach him some basic knees the chambering is the same if he ever wants to turn it into kicks.

What ground defence basic should I cover!

And what the heck is shrimping? Sorry I'm not an MMA guy my grappling comes from Jiu Jitsu, kali and Muay Thai.

If somebody tried to ground and pound me they would be getting a block then lots of finger jabs to the eyes and throat and elbows and hammer fists to the arms coz that s all I know.

@daddymonsterpoodle
Yeah I guess a lot of guys have worked door at some point or just scrapped with their brother. I'll add the rear choke and defence.

I was going to teach him the arm pop from the Clinch anyway it's easy to flow to a rear choke from there.

He's a gentle soul so I can't imagine him getting in a bar room brawl. So I'm thinking self defence which to me means always at least two opponents and a knife. So once he has footwork I'll cover and zoning away and using your attacker as a shield. Then last thing will be to cover the use of environmental weapons and obstacles.

Then when he goes to a club he will understand the difference between martial arts and self defence. It was real funny to train at a karate club where the instructor was a very experienced guy. Most of the guys will like me real mongrels who trained in all sorts of stuff and couldn't be bothered with gradings. Shiny new black belts from other branches used to come all the time and decide to have some fun with the white belts. Guess how well that worked for them. BTW not sounding off plenty of guys in that club who could kick my ass. And you'd want a gun with a sniper scope to take on the instructor.

Does that about cover it guys? Did I cover all your suggestions?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Shrimping is a basic hip movement of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. It keeps the guy on top from being able to hold you down.
http://acfc7e9a085c910eb0418fc0.vgs....com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/shrimping.gif
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/686367/jailbreak.gif

When you can wiggle your hips out, it makes it easy to move from mount to a much better position like full guard. From there, it's a lot easier to hit the sweep and flip the other guy over, or just put your feet on his hips, kick him off you, and stand up. Untrained people tend to give up their back when trying to stand up, which makes a bad position worse.

It's fine to have the plan of not wanting to grapple. That's a good idea in a street fight. You'll want to train takedown defense, which is mostly wrestling. You push the guy's head away and sprawl your hips back. From the ground, train the various ways to stand up, like this: http://blog.infighting.ca/vancouver-bjj-basics-technical-stand/

Fighting off your butt is a real thing. You put out one hand in front for defense, the other behind you, and scoot around. In BJ Penn's book, he shows some wicked kicks from that position at the other guy's knees. I threw one in my first fight, and missed, but it scared the other guy enough to make him back up and let me stand up.

 

[ubercat]

Thanks very interesting. Looks like I got some reading to do. Could u combine the sprawl with a down elbow to the back?

In one of the fight Quest episodes I saw the guy try for a leg shoot against a big guy who nailed him with an elbow on the spine. Jimmy was down for a good 5 minutes. That was the kajenbo episode which seems to be basically gang fighting. For gods sake they were fighting in a Warehouse that had plenty of vertical I beams. At one point a guy slams Jimmy s head into one of them Doubt the place had insurance

 

[Bible_Belt]

It depends on if the guy trying to take you down has ever trained in wrestling. Executing a takedown the right way would never expose the back. Former D1 collegiate wrestlers like Tyron Woodley rule the mma world just as much as any other martial art. But against a sloppy takedown attempt, you could land anything. If you can grab the back of the guy's head when he is leaned down, knees are brutal and easy to land. Amateur mma fighters in my state used to be able to throw knees to the head. Then a buddy of mine broke a kid's face with a knee strike...badly...and the state changed the rules shortly afterward.

If you read the unified rules of mma, then break all of them, that's like a manual for street fighting. Those moves are illegal because they fvck people up so badly. Crotch kick, throat shot, eye gouge, single digit manipulation, and then stomp on his head when he's down.

 

[ubercat]

Do guys really try leg takedowns in the street? I've never seen so much even as an osoto gari or similar leg trip. The only throw I have ever seen is when the guy goes for a big Hook, misses, grabs the guy in a headlock and throws him over his hip, generally falling on top of him in the process.

But of course I don't go out bar hopping anymore. And MMA is huge now. Also in Australia we don't have wrestling in the high school. Here it's generally King hits or thanks to our multicultural background and restrictive gun laws lots of stabbing.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Wrestling the the only martial art most guys know where I live, because it is a school sport. I hear you about things being different there. If knives are common, then train some knife fighting. Much like being on the ground in a street fight, it's not something you want to be doing, but if you are ever forced into that situation, a little training goes a long way.

 

[revolutionnow]

Anyone here for judo or systema love both arts