Everything Bad is Good, and All You've Learned is Wrong

Socialreject

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Good post BAP...

I think the problem is that geeks tend to focus way to much on following a strict set of rules... like a manual that describes how to operate a woman.

While, with all due respect, this site and the bible is just another self help book, you take from it what you need, forget the rest. When i first came to this site i was having trouble understanding behavior of some women. I was just looking for some info and now that i've found that info i'm just hanging around to see what's going on basically. The bible is full of usefull advice but most of it is either 'not my style' or stuff i don't need.

I never was much good with manuals. I use the read every 5 lines technique and then start pushing buttons to see what happens when i do. Which i suppose is the best way to read this site and the bible.

Tbh, i just do what i feel like doing. I remember this one woman i really liked. I bought her a flower because i felt like buying her a flower, bit afterwards she lost interest... oh well, to bad, i really don't see how the flower had anything to do with it. Most of the time the 'mistakes' are very subtile and are all about your inner game and not what you say, how you say it etc...just how you 'feel'. Once you get that section down everything flows natural and rehearsing lines and routines in your brain is just distracting you while you should be 'in the moment'.

Anyways, that's my 0.02$
 

BrotherAP

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Zerotwoonenine said:
hey man stop trying to confuse the new Djs with your little joke.
Being a nice guy rarely rarely works.
Up you game.
Did I confuse you? The new DJ's are exactly who I'm trying to reach - I'm trying to get a message across before people get too absorbed in the wrong approach.

HuuBinh said:
Techniques are LIMITATIONS.
Exactly

BrotherAP, what you are saying about learning through trying and trying isn't new, it is a part of what is taught here. As I read your posts, I see that the points you are making are already part of what is here called DJing, it's just that you put different emphasis on some parts. (Which is, by the way, how many a religion and many an ideology have split - people believing in the same message, just mentioning different parts of it with different emphasis.)

So it seems like what you are really criticizing is not the moves themselves, but someone using them badly, stiltily. And you imagine that that misuser is what the general philosophy here aims to create, but I don't think it does.

Practice makes perfect - yes, it is evident.
I really dislike comparisons between this and a religion. It should be more like a hobby, or a set of guidelines - ones that are under constant scrutiny, open for liberal interpretation and completely able to be ignored. God didn't write them, some guy did, and for all we know he was a virgin. But that aside, I'm trying to support the DJ way. But I don't have to do that much more talking, because I've found that I'm not the first one to arrive at this conclusion, nor have I said it best. I think I like the way Krassus puts it.

Become great!

But this is all the beginning! All I've done is raise some basic points that many of you have reassuringly found to be obvious truths. There's still a lot to be said and done. On the topic of women it's definitely not 'case closed'
 

CompleteControl

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I agree with Brother AP. Being a real man and a good guy is more powerful than being a jerk. Many people just don't understand the distinction between "good" guy and "nice" guy. I want to vomit whenever I hear an AFC say "woman just like jerks" or "I was nice to her and she treated me like crap, I am going to be a jerk from now on".

Being a "nice" guy IS being a jerk. Being "nice" is just attempting to manipulate a woman into liking you or having sex with you by acting "nice" - it just doesn't work.

Guys that truly are jerks have more success because their behavior is perceived by women to be HONEST interaction. However, normal, healthy women will get sick of true jerks eventually.

Be a good guy. If a woman pisses you off - tell her so. If a woman disrespects you - tell her that it is not acceptable and if she does it again she is history. None of this makes you a jerk. It is honest human interaction and woman respond positively.
 

Friendly Otter

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I really dislike comparisons between this and a religion.
Dude, I wasn't comparing it to a religion, I was just digressing. :)
Still, what I said about believing in the same thing while seemingly disagreeing because you're emphasizing different parts of the message, holds water for many systems big and small. The way to deal with that is to reason calmly, like we are doing now. Cuddos to us.
 

undesputable

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Since i read the Art of Seduction, ive realized that everything i had read about how to game girls or whatever, from david d. to everything else, except a couple of people is complete crap.

i think the mistake with sites like this is that they tend to be geared for the quick lay, or at least thats what it comes across as. it may work for some people but it deffiently doesnt work for most. The art of seduction is about seduction in which there are no short cuts, instead seduction is like a ritual in which it could greatly diminish the number of girls you might game up with, but "more than compensates by their quality" (the art of seduction 184). seduction is also a carefully constructed game as well, but it should be, you cant always be so spontanous or leave anything to chance. However it emphasizes so many ways that it all looks natural and spontanous.
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

BrotherAP

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Socialreject said:
Good post BAP...

I think the problem is that geeks tend to focus way to much on following a strict set of rules... like a manual that describes how to operate a woman.
I completely agree. It's an over-simplification of relationships, and it comes from a standpoint of always assuming it's broken. I.e. her interest level is always 'too low' and the solution is always to 'raise it' by 'being a challenge'. It's just not that simple.

Socialreject said:
The bible is full of usefull advice but most of it is either 'not my style' or stuff i don't need.

I never was much good with manuals. I use the read every 5 lines technique and then start pushing buttons to see what happens when i do.
You an me both man. That's why I'm in school studying to be an engineer. I don't care what anyone says, girls love engineers. It's the dumb engineers who don't like the girls.

Socialreject said:
Tbh, i just do what i feel like doing. I remember this one woman i really liked. I bought her a flower because i felt like buying her a flower, bit afterwards she lost interest... oh well, to bad, i really don't see how the flower had anything to do with it.
You see, that's exactly why NOT buying her a flower can be supplicative. You're still basing your actions on whether or not she's going to like her. We're not supposed to be thinking that way. As Krassus puts it, "Be a BETTER MAN for women", not "Be a better man FOR WOMEN." I don't have time to worry about fickle women who get turned off by small insignificant but sincere gestures. I do what I do, and they like it or they don't. Since enough of them like it, there's not enough time to theorize about the ones who don't. Let's just say that those chicks are weird and we're probably glad they're gone.


Socialreject said:
Most of the time the 'mistakes' are very subtile and are all about your inner game and not what you say, how you say it etc...just how you 'feel'. Once you get that section down everything flows natural and rehearsing lines and routines in your brain is just distracting you while you should be 'in the moment'.
Yes! Being in the moment is what I love. When I completely forget about all the techniques, interest level and I just go out to have fun - and I am having a lot of fun - things just move so much nicer. Not only do girls respond so much better to this, I respond better myself. I'm more excited to hang out with them, I have more fun, and all the pressure is gone. I'm pretty loose on dates nowadays, since I've been on enough of them not to care. It's more fun that way, sometimes I'm a bit of a nerd, sometimes a bit of perv, but I'm always 'in the moment' which makes it so worth it.

CompleteControl said:
e a good guy. If a woman pisses you off - tell her so. If a woman disrespects you - tell her that it is not acceptable and if she does it again she is history.
Yup. I gaurantee you that a 'nice guy' would never do that. But you know guys think that it makes them a jerk because she's gonna do something stupid, and it's going to make you mad, and she's gonna go complain to her 'best friend' (poor dude) about what a JERK her boyfriend is because he's at the bar with his buds and not answering his phone, and how he totally blew her off. He's going to tell her "OMG what an a$shole! I'd never treat you like that!"

Friendly Otter said:
The way to deal with that is to reason calmly, like we are doing now. Cuddos to us.
Right, we're discussing in a way people never can do with a religion. You can't ARGUE a religious belief. I'm definitely reassured when I see that people don't take this too seriously (still, some do). And I definitely not anti-Don Juan. I just want people to do it right damnit.

Undesputable said:
The art of seduction is about seduction in which there are no short cuts, instead seduction is like a ritual in which it could greatly diminish the number of girls you might game up with, but "more than compensates by their quality"
Excellent. That's my stated purpose of being on this website - quality, not quantity. There is no short cut for quality.
 

itishe

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AP, most excellent post.

I've noticed when I come here I get caught up in "rules" and then go out into the real world trying to adhere by these "rules", all the while failing miserably at it because I'm not being natural.
 

CompleteControl

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BrotherAP said:
Yup. I gaurantee you that a 'nice guy' would never do that. But you know guys think that it makes them a jerk because she's gonna do something stupid, and it's going to make you mad, and she's gonna go complain to her 'best friend' (poor dude) about what a JERK her boyfriend is because he's at the bar with his buds and not answering his phone, and how he totally blew her off. He's going to tell her "OMG what an a$shole! I'd never treat you like that!"
:crackup: Exactly! I think many of the "nice" guys don't realize that when women use the term jerk there are at least 3 possible definitions.

1) Truly a mean ahole and a bad person.

2) A guy they like, but that won't give them the time of day.

3) A guy they love (like a boyfriend) who is awesome in every way but they are momentarily upset with because she couldn't manipulate him. (of course this will make her love him even more)
 

BrotherAP

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CompleteControl said:
:crackup: Exactly! I think many of the "nice" guys don't realize that when women use the term jerk there are at least 3 possible definitions.

1) Truly a mean ahole and a bad person.

2) A guy they like, but that won't give them the time of day.

3) A guy they love (like a boyfriend) who is awesome in every way but they are momentarily upset with because she couldn't manipulate him. (of course this will make her love him even more)
This is exactly why it's such a mis-direction when I see guys who think that they need to be total d!ckheads to get girls, even saying stuff like "I want to be the guy who doesn't give a sh!t about the, abuses them and keeps them coming back for more!" It keeps me wondering why anybody would aspire to be like that, and the answer is because they've convinced themselves that those are the ONLY guys who get laid.

Us 'jerks' aren't such bad guys afterall. Like my new sig.
 

HB_Hunter

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Great post Brother ap....It's all about the mindset guys however i have a couple of points that i want to add to fuel up this great discussion of being a natural versus the crappy rules .

1- Sometimes your stuck into comfort zone . Due to whatever in life , afc frds , working in a job alot of hours , or like me broken my tibia and injured my ACL and that means to stay at home for 6 weeks (no car , going out , working out etc..) and thus breaking the effective social habits that you have developed and finding yourself rusty especially in what to talk about , topics . im at times not comfortable with alot of silences especially if im wokring on a girl .

the best thing i found , is not to hold back ..let things flow and know that , believe that and trust yourself that it's only a bump upon a road and that things will be Ok.

2- it's to accept to be a human being and fall flat on your face , accept rejection , objection , bad feelings , embaressment and alot of these things guys sholudn't be eliminated but still shouldn't be embraced . that's the pointr where at times , your don't want to lose the girl because of in your mind " big mistakes"



Also, Increasing your testesterone is very important...as it makes you feel like a man , in tune with your nature , with your sexuality , natural dominance ...this is by working out with heavy weights , eating red meat , getting into manly hobbies like boxing or even dancing .
 

If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

So Many Ways

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I like this post.

Sometimes I feel like following rules has hurt my game more than helped it. I'm actually trying to deprogram a lot of the stuff out of my head, the whole CF thing, the whole wait a certain amount of days to go, everything.

One thing that happens when you are actually out in the field talking to live women is that the cool routine or technique you read in a manual or on a web site becomes impossible to remember or difficult to deliver the right way. You're using a technique that doesn't fit your personality. You try to be CF but you come across like an idiot or a-hole.

The stuff on this site are general guidelines. They're not ten commandments or laws or anything like that. Just grab your nuts, talk to real women, relax, enjoy yourself and become comfortable in your own skin. That's all you need. Everything will fall into place eventually, as long as you persist. Don't sweat the down moments, they happen to us all. There's no need to bang your head against the wall and memorize lines, techniques, routines, complicated systems, forcing out negs, CF, stuff like that. Just go out there and do it and have fun with it.
 

khash

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Seriously, this is a BRUTALLL post. it is not true at all, dont let it sink in ur brain. NICE GUYS NEVER GET ****, THEY FINISH LAST.
 

El MonoLoco

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I think I'm gonna have to agree.....

I've never been a rules guy myself but when it comes to women I've been trying too hard to follow rules that just don't fit....esp the phone rules.....geez I'm bad with that....


I've always felt that the stuff we find out here are more like guidlines and should be loosely followed not followed to a T, but I still get hung up on things...like trying to not seem desperate, which sometimes we are.
I know there are guys in here that haven't gotten laid in a while or ever and it's hard to hide what you're really feeling and lots of us get caught up in that...


I'm rambling now but this is a great post, I know I needed to hear (uh read) it :up:
 

Bonhomme

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24-karat gold. :up:

There's a world of difference between buying a gal who's not interested in you flowers in a vain attempt to "win her (nonexistent, but you can't face it) love" (AFC) and buying a gal who's absolutely mad about you flowers because you know it will make her day (DJ).

The "rules' are just a variation on the "fake it 'til you make it" theme. But internalizing the concepts: being your own man, trusting your instincts, etc. is really where it's at, and if you're not a "natural" it only comes through doing it.

Being a genuinely nice guy is great. It's only when "nice guy" is being used as a polite euphemism for "wussy" that you have a problem.

Ace post. This should be stickied in "Tips."
 

Caveman

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Excellent post and I have to agree.

However... I think this post is not really meant for newbies. I remember coming to this site myself and absorve all the excellent posts at the time. They shifted my mindset from that of an AFC to that of a guy who was consiously trying to improve by understanding some af the typical behaviours of women. Understanding it's not normal to be doormat or even realizing I was being a doormat.

This needs to sink in for most newbies here so they start to open their eyes about their own behaviour. They can use some of the rules here as guidelines to work on themselves and I think anyone that starts to improve on themselves will eventually learn that it's all about confidence and realizing they don't need to put up with any crap from anyone. My guess is that at this point they will be ready for this post.

Good one anyway.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

ObieJuan

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fuzzx said:
Excellent post, typical bs for the new age poster.
Did you actually read what the OP wrote or are you just trolling?

I think I've read this thread a hundred times by posters who are hitting the 'ego' stage. Couldn't agree with you less my man, sounds to me like you've hit the 'relapse' stage. All these techniques do work, I'm living proof of it. If you are at the point where you can use AFC crap to pull women, then thats fine but you are NOT a natural.
You aren't a natural either. If the "techniques" work then they wouldn't be techniques, they would just be natural instincts- which means you wouldn't have had to read up on them. Who are you preaching to, anyway?

I can pull women into playing D&D and CCG games with me NOW and they still think I'm a cool guy afterwards. Do you think I could've done that a few years ago without this DJ stuff? Hell NO. Im glad you've hit a new pinacle in your game but don't post stupid topic headers denouncing everything you've learned.
The cool guy who happens to be a closet geek, lol. Good to hear you found some useful information...you must realize that not everyone finds seduction methods to be successful.

What your posting is akin to running headfirst into a World War II battlezone after becoming a Navy Seal and telling all the new guys in the trenches to throw down their guns and forget their training because in theory they could easily blow up tanks with sticks, rocks and harsh language.
I believe the OP is trying to steer people in a general direction and leave it up to the individual to determine how he will get there. I find this to be sound advice as everyone is different. That is, however, my opinion.

For some reason we all want to convince ourselves that buying candy and being a good guy is the right way to go. We want to convince ourselves that generally women are good people and they want the best for us. We especially want to convince ourselves that the media's portrayl of men and women is right! WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!!!!!
Sounds like you've been trying to convince yourself more than others. Anyway, BrotherAP is saying you can do nice things at the right times and not be supplicating or come off as desperate. Who are you to judge what is right and what is wrong? Such strong assertions can't be made without further elaboration...

This is the war of the sexes gentlemen, and this poster is spinning propoganda.
It's a war? You sound sort of bitter at this point. Judging by the responses in this thread people of sound mind have been able to dissect the original post and get something positive out of it. What's wrong with that? You are trying waaay too hard to dissuade people from perfectly good advice.
 

BrotherAP

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fuzzx said:
Excellent post, typical bs for the new age poster.

I think I've read this thread a hundred times by posters who are hitting the 'ego' stage. Couldn't agree with you less my man, sounds to me like you've hit the 'relapse' stage. All these techniques do work, I'm living proof of it. If you are at the point where you can use AFC crap to pull women, then thats fine but you are NOT a natural. I can pull women into playing D&D and CCG games with me NOW and they still think I'm a cool guy afterwards. Do you think I could've done that a few years ago without this DJ stuff? Hell NO. Im glad you've hit a new pinacle in your game but don't post stupid topic headers denouncing everything you've learned.
There is no such thing as the 'ego' stage or the 'relapse' stage, but thanks for pulling something out of your @ss to make it sound like you've "been there done that" and give your own argument credence. The problem is, there isn't an argument here. What you're saying is that a few years ago, you couldn't get a girl. Now you play D&D with them. I'm happy for you, but if your point is that you need 'DJ stuff' to play fantasy games with chicks then I don't see anything to support that.

What your posting is akin to running headfirst into a World War II battlezone after becoming a Navy Seal and telling all the new guys in the trenches to throw down their guns and forget their training because in theory they could easily blow up tanks with sticks, rocks and harsh language.
No, it's nothing like that. I really tried to make sense of this analogy, but lets face it - guys meeting girls is nothing like soldiers blowing up tanks. Meeting girls is so much simpler than you want to think. The fact that you are even here on this planet means that hundreds of guys in your direct paternal line all got laid, and somehow they did it without all of these techniques you swear by. Where did genetics go wrong that you couldn't do it too? Or maybe you're just making it harder than it has to be.

For some reason we all want to convince ourselves that buying candy and being a good guy is the right way to go. We want to convince ourselves that generally women are good people and they want the best for us. We especially want to convince ourselves that the media's portrayl of men and women is right! WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!!!!!
Being a good guy is the way to go, but buying candy does not in any way make you a good guy. I've seen all kinds of losers and a$sholes buy candy for any reason from a girl not giving him the time of day to he's dating 5 women that all think they're the only one and he's getting them things to make them feel more special before they start to suspect something. The act of buying candy means nothing, it's what you think you're trying to accomplish by doing it that means everything. Buying her candy or not buying her candy is the exact same thing if you're doing it (or not doing it) just to impress her. Even if you're convinced that women are bad people who are out to hurt us, you're getting off track. My post never even mentioned the media's portrayal of women.

This is the war of the sexes gentlemen, and this poster is spinning propoganda.
This is typical disagreement around here. My main points don't even get addressed, instead I'm just a heretic spouting dangerous rhetoric in an effort to mislead every guy here. Obviously I want to see everyone fail.

If you disagree with me, I'm more than open to debate this. Maybe then those who disagree can actually address my arguments directly and this will cut down on the confusion and substanceless "this guy is wrong don't listen to him!" posts. I posted this in discussion and not tips for a reason - I want to see it discussed. I've still yet to see somebody disagree with me in a well thought out way.
 

Consent

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The original post is very true. This website is just based on hypothesis of a few people.
 

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BrotherAP said:
You see, you can try as hard as you can to make a list of 'dating rules' that make you seem like some awesome guy that any woman would be glad to swoon over. Try and be 'spontaneous' by making a chart of when to call women - yeah that's real daring, captain wildchild. I bet women love your dangerous side, calling on a Wednesday. You know exactly when to say "Are you checking me out!?" and they just love it don't they? Not that you sound rehearsed because you've been waiting for an oppurtunity to say that all night. And I'm sure you sitting there the whole time making a mental checklist of "indicators of interest" so you make sure you are raising her interest level (not working? more C&F... stat! Still no? Uhh... Kino! No? Damn, ignore her until she comes around. Wait! She's not comin back! Oh well NEXT!) isn't going to affect you at all through your body language and tonality. Surely you won't betray the fact that you are using about every supplicative technique known to man short of just buying her flowers and telling her that's she's beautiful just like you did the last 50 girls.

You know I must be full of it, I'm challenging everything you know is true and right! I mean, we all know every guy who's read all these techniques gets laid like a rockstar. It's a widely believed fact. Surely this weird BrotherAP character has spent the last year posting on this website acting as an undercover feminist agent, slowly gaining respect so that he could mislead these poor guys in the wrong direction to make sure that they don't get good with girls, because he would hate to see somebody succeed!

Well I'm not an undercover feminist, and I do want you to succeed. That's why I'm making this post. What I wrote in the first paragraph, mind you, are all things that I have done in the last year and gotten away with - well more than gotten away with. Done with great effect. But you have to understand it's because I'm coming from the other side. View it as a sliding scale from complete prick to total doormat, with the balance being right in the middle. Most of the guys come here to the left, the nice guy doormat sad, and these techniques are intended as device to get closer to the center. The problem is, there's a fundamental belief system that has to change, and unfortunately the total prick is much closer to having a mindset that gets him laid than the total nice guy. He starts out with no respect for boundaries, no desire to be validated by others, and no concern what others think about him, and quickly learns that he has to reign in his attitude for people to want to be around him. Why is this so much easier than coming from the side of the nice guy? Well to go from approval-seeking to somebody who doesn't care, to learn when to cross boundaries by trial and error (and, by error, I really mean going too far), and to acquire the swagger that all women fantasize about it takes a lot of balls. A lot of times naturals are lucky that this is where they started. They never had to 'man up' and learn to 'cross the line'.

So what's wrong with the advice here? Doesn't it teach men to do just that - to cross the line? In short, no. No it doesn't. The problem is, it tries to tell men exactly where the line is, and how to get right to it without ever going over. And that doesn't help anybody - because to be truly good with people you have to be a very adept risk taker. Sometimes you're not going to know if something is too much, a comment goes too far or a touch will really be welcomed. You know how you find out? You go for it. It takes balls at first, it really does. But you do it a few times, and you realize that it isn't so hard afterall, and the consequences are nothing like you imagined. Sure, you will probably cross the line in embarassing ways at least a couple of times, but trust me you will laugh at yourself later for it. What am I saying?

Ditch the techniques! They're not helping you. You're not getting laid because your waiting to call her a certain amount of days. That's a placebo. You think it makes you more attractive, hence your confidence is boosted and - viola! - you become more attractive. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. But when you're too nervous to call her on any day besides the designated day, well then it's a problem. You're not confident anymore - you're dependent. And, worst of all, you're unable to adapt.

Oh and about ****y & Funny - lay off it. I mean, yeah, it's a good conversational tool that most truly confident guys have to some degree. But you're all taking it wayyyy too far. It's like, every other sentence doesn't have to be some comment about how hot you are. Just like millionaires don't feel the need to talk about how rich they are (and if they do, they're annoying), guys who get laid don't feel the need to talk about how they get laid. Sure, every now and then throw her a ****y comment, just to show her you're a fun guy and you don't take yourself or others too seriously. Make sure it's funny, too! Say it, and forget it. You shouldn't be dropping the line and waiting for her to say, stunned "Wow.. I had no idea you were so... ****y. And funny. Make love to me NOW" Because it doesn't work that way. Although you might get a slight look, or a touch with a laugh, or even an eye roll with a playful punch. These are all good things. But you're not going to get them if you're just spouting memorized ****y lines. Be spontaneous, man. This is all supposed to be fun. No pressure. If you get to a point of comfort, you'll find C&F comin out all on it's own.

But there's more wrong with the strict adherence to these rules than people might realize, even if they agree with everything I've already said. You see, not all girl troubles are caused by a guy being too easily won. So much of this advice is written for the 'nice guy' give-too-much-too-soon personality that the rest is lost in the haystack, and people start believing that the right thing to do is always be more aloof. Less interested. More challenging. Well it doesn't always work that way. A girl won't invest herself unless she thinks you're investing yourself too! Sometimes you've got to give them something to go on, a small compliment, maybe a quick "you know I like you", a lingering look. Give them a reason to believe that you're not using them for sex - because, really, you shouldn't be. But that's another post. Point is, if you've gotten your act together enough that you're already a challenge then acting like you're "too cool for school" is going to frustrate the women into not pursuing. How can I put this? It goes back to cat-string theory. A cat will chase a string that you dangle in front of it just so. If you let it have it, just sitting there in front of it, it doesn't care (nice guy). But if you just yank it 10 feet into the air and leave it there, the cat won't bother. You've got to dangle it just within reach, or just without. Anywhere else and it's too easy or too hard. Strike a balance!

What's really most important here is that you learn to interact with the fairer sex (yes, women are the fairer sex, and if you disagree, you're gay). The best way to do this is to interact with them more. Maybe it'll take you a year before you really seem natural, confident, and comfortable without being too aggressive, creepy, or too withdrawn. Given the information at your behest here, the people you can talk to, and the fact that you know not to put women on a pedestal means that you should be starting a point better than at least 50% of your peers if not more. You have no excuse not to be really getting good! Go out and talk to girls, however you want to do it. I don't care if you use routines or not (even if I think they're silly, there are respected people who like them so I'm not judgin), hell it doesn't even matter what you say or use just talk to them. The more you do, the better you'll be, and you know what you'll be doing well enough within a year that your confidence will be solid. I mean, the more time you spend dealing with chicks, the more you realize it's no big deal. Not even worth writing as much as I have over. Yet here I am trying to explain it to you because it's just one of those that every guy has to figure out at some point, and I want to help you on your way. So go out there and talk to girls! Every day! It's simple and straightforward - the more you do this, with whatever plan, or even no plan at all, the better you'll get. This is how naturals became naturals, and this is how you are going to do it to.

One more point of contention, and I just have to bring this up. While the phone game on this website definitely sucks, there is no worse phone advice than the three day rule. Every girl knows about the three day rule. Cosmo talks about the three day rule. You're not showing her that you're busy and couldn't call her, you're showing her that you were too afraid of looking desperate so you followed some stupid rule that you probably read in Maxim magazine and, in the process, actually made yourself desperate. Good job cowboy. So here's what I want you to do: forget you ever heard the 3 day rule. Call her within 1-2 days, or as soon as possible if you can't do that, and everything will be fine. It's not that complicated.

Anyway that's all I'm going to say for now, but seriously think about what I've said. Actually, don't think about it. Just go do something. Talk to some girls for chrissakes. Just talk. No interest level, no challenge, and no C&F unless you really think of something C&F worth saying. If you don't have anything to say, don't say anything. See what happens, maybe she'll fill in the gaps. If not, oh well, whatever, you're just talking. Have fun with it. Getting girls really is as easy as you want it to be.

very long but a great read, very nicely put:cool:
 

Jariel

Master Don Juan
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BrotherAP said:
If I do any of the above, it's because I feel like it, and really I could give a crap if it raises or lowers her interest level. And that, fellows, is exactly why it works.

Bravo!!! :up:

You are absolutely right, because that's what confidence is!
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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