Every day you wait, your choices decrease..

[Rollo Tomassi]

I personally know a guy who at 55 was dating (i.e. banging regualrly) a 36 y.o. secretary we had in our department in a former job. That's a difference of 19 years and no one, not even the 'new woman' ladies I worked with then even raised an eyebrow to it. At 39, if I were to date (again, bang regularly) a 20 y.o. girl I'd be run up the highest flagpole as a pervert.

So what's the difference? It's the same age range of 19 years? It's entirely legal. I'll tell you why it seems wrong because age difference stigma is a feminine social convention that all too many men are willing to buy into. You see, a 55 y.o. guy with the expected money and status of a man that age is a great prospect for a mid 30s woman who's well on the downside of her sexual marketability with respect to being able to compete with younger (probably childless) 20 something girls. It works in the feminine advatage to overlook the age difference. However, the 39 y.o. man is shamed for engaging in "robbing the cradel" he's got a problem, he's looking for a trophy (a female coined term BTW), he's feeding his ego, etc.

 

[MrLuvr]

so this means a 39 year old guy is effectively selecting a girl who is nearly a child.
MM

This is another one of those red herrings that is trotted out to criticize such relationships. At what age do you think a person is not a "child" anymore? 30? 40? In every aspect of life a 20 year is considered a fully grown adult with the ability to interact and make decisions. Where do you live? Where I come from, if a 20 year old commits a crime for example. he/she is prosecuted to the full extent of the law as as ADULT.

 

[MrLuvr]

I don't see any consensus here though as to whether as each day passes choices decrease or not.

Can we say that instead of choices decreasing, the composition of the pool changes?

I do think that the older you get, the farther that 20 year old is out of reach. BUT, we are talking about choices in marriage and I don't think a 20 year old is a good marriage prospect anyway.

 

[azanon]

18-21 are teenagers and party girls. Those are not women.

A brief comment that had absolutely nothing to do with any of the points I was making.

Whether they were "women" or not, it didn't change the fact that the ones I was referring to did indeed marry, and if not women at the time, they grew into women within their marriages. It changes absolutely nothing about the fact that they are no longer available to be married by someone else.

And even if some of them later divorced, who wants someone else's leftovers..... You?

 

[azanon]

I don't see any consensus here though as to whether as each day passes choices decrease or not.

I would say does it really matter then?

I personally don't see the age of marrying or whether you should even marry at all, a "right" vs. "wrong" issue. Every man's different, every situation's different. At any age, there will be plenty of women out there that could be possible LTR/marriage material.

I can honestly say I wasn't out to get married. The thought never entered my mind until I realized how immensely happy I was with the woman I had been dating for over 1 year (by that point of realization.) Dating for the actual purpose of finding someone to marry is just plain spookey and SHOULD scare any woman off if she catches a whiff that's what you're up to.

I would say for any man, date and have fun/enjoy the woman you're with. If you happen to meet an exceptional woman along the way that transends all of your expectations, then you might want to consider keeping her. That could happen at age 21, 28, 35, or maybe never. I was an adult with an adult mind at 21 and felt fully ready to be married. I proved as much by having little difficulty taking care of the both of us after marriage (in every way, including financial). Your experience may vary.

 

[azanon]

kids

Another benefit of marriage I don't see brought up much is kids. Do none of you fellows want your own son (or daughter)? I have a 4 year old boy now, and let me tell you, he's so freakin' cool. He's my mini-me. Just last night he was sitting in my lap as I was playing a little Battlefield 2 helping me find the enemy - so much fun. I digress.

Anyway, the pill works. The wifey and I basically got to f*** for about 12 years before we decided it was time to try and have a little one. Benefits of marrying at 21, in other words.

If you wait until your 30s, and lets say you manage to find a 23 year old that will marry you. Well then you can put kids off another 7 years with little risk of her not being able to have a kid (for a little pre-kid f*** time), but if you do that, you'll be damn near 60 (or more!) before the kids(s) get out of your house. Maybe that sounds appealing to you, but I'm gonna pass on that!

But back on kids.... what good are marriages/LTRs? If i'm not mistaken, you need a woman for these. And I don't recommend trying to raise one or more of them without her help throughout the whole process.

 

[azanon]

Not really, only in the typical western world. It's perfectly logical to find a woman for dating as a possible marriage prospect. You ubild a family, have kids, raise them and have respectable offspring. This is more natural based on human instinct than dating women in order to have casual sex with them using a condom, without creating babies and raising them. But meh, that's social conditioning for you, it's not like most people truly know what they are doing anyhow. It's spookey to you because you're socially conditioned to think that (or are you?), but based on natural instincts it ain't really.

MM

You're 180 degrees backwards on that.

Marriage/family is socially conditioned. Mating with as many females as possible without necessarily any regard for the offspring afterwards (as the male) would be Darwinian because we know the female will see to it that "our" offspring will survive. Humans are so dynamic, we don't necessarily fall in the class of "mate for life" vs. pure spreading our genes mentality. We're smart enough to access the situation and adjust. In American, a kid most likely isn't going to go hungry whether he's abandoned by his father or not, so the subcontious mind will probably think "my offspring will survive regardless of what I do after I mate with her". So NATURE, would have us f****** as many different women as possible; spread the genes. Society wants otherwise.

And, by the way, I'm more educated (MA in Biology) than i am a meer product of social conditioning.

>Be careful listening to LMS's ideas, if that's where they're coming from. His wisdom doesn't come from observations of nature, rather religious dogma. Of course he won't admit as much because even he realizes how out-of-favor such narrow-minded thinking has become today.

 

[MrLuvr]

You're 180 degrees backwards on that.

Marriage/family is socially conditioned. Mating with as many females as possible without necessarily any regard for the offspring afterwards (as the male) would be Darwinian because we know the female will see to it that "our" offspring will survive. Humans are so dynamic, we don't necessarily fall in the class of "mate for life" vs. pure spreading our genes mentality. We're smart enough to access the situation and adjust. In American, a kid most likely isn't going to go hungry whether he's abandoned by his father or not, so the subcontious mind will probably think "my offspring will survive regardless of what I do after I mate with her". So NATURE, would have us f****** as many different women as possible; spread the genes. Society wants otherwise.

And, by the way, I'm more educated (MA in Biology) than i am a meer product of social conditioning.

>Be careful listening to LMS's ideas, if that's where they're coming from. His wisdom doesn't come from observations of nature, rather religious dogma. Of course he won't admit as much because even he realizes how out-of-favor such narrow-minded thinking has become today.

I am beginning to think Mad Manic is a woman pretending to be a man. All his/her posts were about how women had the power in society etc. But, it seems like his/her posts have all be deleted.

 

[MrLuvr]

A brief comment that had absolutely nothing to do with any of the points I was making.

Whether they were "women" or not, it didn't change the fact that the ones I was referring to did indeed marry, and if not women at the time, they grew into women within their marriages. It changes absolutely nothing about the fact that they are no longer available to be married by someone else.

And even if some of them later divorced, who wants someone else's leftovers..... You?

azanon, you mentioned that you were in a small college. It sounds like it was quite an isolated community. In bigger towns, like where I live, it is quite rare that girls are married/settled before they leave college/university. Sure, some have met the "love of their life" and settled, but it is by no means the norm.

 

[blueguy]

I'll second that. Most girls I date are waiting to finish college before they get married. This puts them at 22-23 before they think about it. Most girls these days want to have an education and job as a backup plan so they won't rely on a man to support them in worst case scenario. The median age of marriage for women is 25.5. I highly doubt a 32 year old man and a 25.5 year old woman would raise any eyebrows. As far as my last post, it was tongue in cheek... I do better with women every year I age.

 

[STR8UP]

However, the 39 y.o. man is shamed for engaging in "robbing the cradel" he's got a problem, he's looking for a trophy (a female coined term BTW), he's feeding his ego, etc.

Haha, that's EXACTLY what the 20 yr old was told by her best friend (who is late 20's and also likes me) the day after I fukked her silly in my jacuzzi. I know this because the FRIEND told me that she told the 20 yr old that.

If I thought it would have done any good I would have told her she was full of sh!t, but we all know how well that would have sunken in

 

[lookyoung]

Anyway, the pill works. The wifey and I basically got to f*** for about 12 years before we decided it was time to try and have a little one. Benefits of marrying at 21, in other words.

You getting married at 21 and fvcking the same pu$$y for 12 years before having a kid is a negative and not a benefit.

 

[blueguy]

That all depends upon your trajectory.

Just because you're in your 30s or older, doesn't necessarily mean its downward.

The age range may go up, but you may have better quality available to you if your quality is improving. That's about the best I can put it.

This is well put. As long as you're moving in a valuable direction, your options only improve. You can't put an age limit on yourself since who you are at 32 or 39 may be much more valuable to the average woman than who you were at 26 or 33, regardless of the increased age.

 

[MrLuvr]

This is well put. As long as you're moving in a valuable direction, your options only improve. You can't put an age limit on yourself since who you are at 32 or 39 may be much more valuable to the average woman than who you were at 26 or 33, regardless of the increased age.

Yep, exactly. And that is why this whole argument that "Every day your choices decrease... ". The assumption with this theory is that every day, you are going downhill and deteriorating.

However, if every day, you are improving yourself, your net worth and growing as a man and as a person, your options will only increase and not decrease. A highly, successful 40 yr old man will have many more options than he did as a 26 year just starting out on his career.

But, of course, that is IF and only IF you take every day to improve yourself and grow as a man. If you end up as a 40 yr old working at McDonalds, then, well.. you are fVcked.

 

[BLebowski]

I'd rather run out of women than marry the WRONG one.

I'm pretty much a newbie here but ... Amen to the above.

Personally, I came out of a 'married at 21 for all the wrong reasons' marriage 6 months ago (I'm 34yrs now, no kids ... fortunately looking back at the situation) and am getting back on my feet. A bad marriage is not just bad, it's soul destroying.

 

[jonwon]

Corporations, a living example of the Merged Void if ever there was one, always show a preference for the Family Man when it comes to promotions and positions of responsibility. In the case of Merged Voids, as with most other permutations of existence, It Takes One to Know One. Corporations (or companies of any size, really) wink knowingly at the Little Woman and Her Brood. Once the Male Light has disappeared over the Event Horizon, once the manacle of gold has been pounded into place on the ring finger of his left hand, he is, indeed, a Wage Slave.

What goes unsaid (or, rather, what has gone unsaid until now) is that he serves Two Mistresses, Twin Voids. As he labours to make his mortgage payments, pay for groceries, little Axelrod's College Fund, the new sofa, the new drapes, the bigger house, the Company can rest easy. In labouring to fill the insatiable Void Need for material possessions at home, his time and his energy and his spirit disappear into the Vaginal Bottom Line of the workplace. Divorce, once badly thought of, has yielded even greater benefits. The employee with a Wife and Mistress, and later a Wife and an Ex-Wife (and still later a Wife, an Ex-Wife and a Mistress) is very much rocking to the beat of the Merged Void. Assuming he's going to get a little ahead of himself, the Bank Void steps in with an easy-payment schedule.

Ah, success.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Men, Look around you. Who's telling you that the available pool of women SHRINKS???

-Old timers who married young, who's confidence is beaten, and are probably not in the kind of shape WE will be thanks to health and medical advances as well as a better lifestyle.
-Women who want you to "settle."
-People with agendas speaking from THEIR reality. Not your's.

These people have NO FACTS to support their ludicrous claims in either direction. The point is, men, when we are 30, 40, and 50, we will look like boys of 20-50 years ago did in their 20, 30, and 40's. My own uncle who looks great in his 40's, appears to be 30's, remarried (dumb fool), a hot Jewish woman. Most guys who take care of themselves will find themselves overwhelmed with women.

I've been thinking ALOT about marriage, not because I want it, but because at 27, EVERYONE is doing it or asking me about it. Rather than ask what good book I've read, or what cool activity I've done, they ask about marriage?! Do they ever look BEHIND marriage to see the ups and downs? I know some of our long-time members are married, but they are evidently 'aware' enough to make it work, as they aren't just here HIDING from their spouses.

The Fact is, marriage blows. I have so many pent up thoughts because everyone blathers on about it, but never stops to THINK of what they're saying I'm ready to burst. :cuss:

- All the guys I USED to know, who were growing, improving, lifting, making progress in life...just....stopped.
- If you are on a path to improve, a woman, unless she's of the same mindset, will derail you. She'll criticize you from her PoV, not from the one you are trying to become.
- She will comment on your friends, family, co-workers, and acquaintances. She will want to own that part of your life, b/c her emotions are so whacked out, she can't handle idiosyncracies.
- REALISTICALLY, unless she's a man, or a tranny, she can't be the one. She can't complete you. She's different than you. More than opposite who you are. You may have commonalities, but you won't be like 2 missing puzzle pieces that complete 1 another. You will have different interests. It would be a statisical IMPOSSIBILITY to assume that out of all the people who are alive, have lived, or will live...that your ONE lives right near you. The odds would be better to buy a lottery ticket. She might be 'like' you, and you may have enough in common to be good together, but it won't be 100% of the time....
- The concept of the relationship is flawed. You end up giving more than you get, in a lot of cases, and if you get alot, you'll hear about it all the time. You'll be weighed and measured on that, and if you don't live up to her expected standards, previous bf's, husbands, or her father, uncles, brothers, or grandfathers, she will tell you.

GIVE up:
- opportunity to bang other chicks
- money $$$
- time
- availability to engage in your personal interests
- freedom of life to explore whatever may come
- you now have dual considerations (ie does she like this place, does she like that)

GET :

- sex, on a declining basis, or based on how her needs are met in relationship
- a supposedly supportive person, yet she will contradict alot of your personal choices, i.e being with friends or watching football, and says its in the best interests of a relationship


The PRIMARY reason I think both things are BUNK...relationships and marriage, is because WE ARE MAKING THEM SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT. There is no SINGLE one. No person can BE that. It's like being your PERSONAL GOD. Is it HONESTLY possible ONE person can match so precisely? Is it honestly fair that one person harbor so much responsibility for YOUR life and feelings?

Moreover, relationships...a person should automatically understand its no good to stymie, prevent, or block another person. I realize emotions are very FICKLE, but that's also a part of life. We wage a never-ending battle between CAN-SHOULD-DO I and Logic Vs Emotion. Until one day, you're dead, and you'd have wished you just followed your gut.

Now...if/when we do stop putting relationships that are mostly seksual on a pedastal, then I will concede they work. But internally, I still see myself as separate, and there's nothing more I abhor than someone coming in and telling me anything about my life or path or desires. The more they do, the more they got to go.

Personally at 27 I'm exhausted with the marriage BS. Exhausted. There's bigger things to life than that. Unless of course you're that religious. Maybe I've lost my religious way, but ever since my youth, I never found it all that appealing anyways.


A-Unit

 

[lookyoung]

ummm why? I'd rather fvck the same woman then a ton of hoes before I have a kid, less chance of disease and you have a better understanding of the woman you are with.

The main factor here... most men on this forum DO NOT WANT CHILDREN & DO NOT WANT TO RAISE CHILDREN. So for them, marriage sucks. They see their married life in a selfish way (Live for myself... oh what will happen to poor me? Will I not have the freedom to play my video games and drive my fast cars?) instead of (What will happen to my kids, Are they healthy? Are they happy? Are they educated? Do they have positive parental role models in their life? What are they learning? What am I teaching them by the way I live my life? What will they think of me?)

This does not make me an AFC for wanting to take care of children or be married. I am starting to see a huge divergance in my beliefs as a DJ to those of others. I don't see marriage as negative or constraining.

You all seem to play the victim card, as if marriage is evil and staying out of marriage will make you happier. And that being alone is somehow better than being with family? AND that anyone who thinks differently must be AFC. Why not instead of quoting people who are dissatisfied with their marriage, quote someone who is satisfied. Most guys on this forum are the ones who were DISSATISFIED... why else come to this forum? Why are we as DJ's trying to stamp marriage out? Why aren't we trying to figure out ways of making it better? Because assuming that marriage is horrible, is assuming that all women are crap...so why not just cut your balls off now.

I for one want nothing more in my life than to provide the most excellent life for multiple children that my parents afforded for myself and my brother. Thank you mom and dad for staying together, making it through 30 years and setting such good examples and showing that life isn't always a bowl full of cherries, there are problems that will come up but above all not to NEXT each other at the first sign of trouble. In my family we take care of our own. I for one can't wait to have my own kids, the problems and difficulties that come with them. Bring it on.

I am pretty much with you on this fuzz. I think marriage could be a great thing, but it has to be with the right girl. If its with the right girl than I think your better off being married, with the wrong girl than your better off being single.

But the problem with most marriages is that men choose the WRONG woman to marry. The KEY is to choose the RIGHT woman. In todays society I would say that 15% of woman are marriage material. So you have plenty of guys marrying the other 85% that end up divorced or miserable.

My opinion of marriage material.
1. Height and Weight proportionate.
2. Intelligent.
3. Knows how to cook. And does.
4. Never married no kids.
5. Sees the Man as the leader. Not this 50/50 Feministic bullsh1t.
6. Does not go out without you.
7. Doesn't drink or do drugs.
8. Doesn't flirt with men at work.
9. HB7 and above.
10. Wants to have children.


See with that list I probably eliminateed 90% of the woman out there. This is what I feel constitutes a good woman.

 

[LoneRanger]

A female friend of mine told me that for every 6 women around my age there is one eligible man in the area I live. I am 38 years old.

I assume what she meant by "eligible" is intelligent and employable. The odds are in my favor but the quality of single women is not good in this area.

 

[azanon]

I am pretty much with you on this fuzz. I think marriage could be a great thing, but it has to be with the right girl. If its with the right girl than I think your better off being married, with the wrong girl than your better off being single.

But the problem with most marriages is that men choose the WRONG woman to marry. The KEY is to choose the RIGHT woman. In todays society I would say that 15% of woman are marriage material. So you have plenty of guys marrying the other 85% that end up divorced or miserable.

My opinion of marriage material.
1. Height and Weight proportionate.
2. Intelligent.
3. Knows how to cook. And does.
4. Never married no kids.
5. Sees the Man as the leader. Not this 50/50 Feministic bullsh1t.
6. Does not go out without you.
7. Doesn't drink or do drugs.
8. Doesn't flirt with men at work.
9. HB7 and above.
10. Wants to have children.


See with that list I probably eliminateed 90% of the woman out there. This is what I feel constitutes a good woman.

So let me ask before he does; So why did you throw me under a bus?

My wife? Check on all 10 (except #6). Only a jacka$$ wouldn't let his wife go out occasionally with her mature, and usually also married, women friends. Besides, I occasionally like to go out with the guys.