Envy

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

Why not retire now or work a couple of hours a week? There is so much to enjoy in the world that doesn't require money. I had a buddy do what you're doing, nose to the grind, hated his life. Then out of nowhere his wife served him papers and told him she was tagging the yoga instructor and that she was pregnant. He wasted 20 years thinking he was doing the right thing only to wake up with nothing. Wife took half, and then another half and re-married within a year. He's acquired a drug addiction and rents a room from a friend. Wiped out and lost his job. His money suddenly meant nothing and his two kids could care less about him because he never spent any time with them.

Tell your wife to start the business with a pen and paper. 80k? You're nuts and so is she. I can tell you as a teacher, private education is total bs. Your kids would learn more from $0.25 in fines at the local library and not suffer 'gender dysphoria'. In fact, you are doing your kids a disservice by putting them in any kind of school that doesn't have mats and belts.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Not sure exactly what you do but according to this 80% of millionaires in UK are self made and didn't have outside wealth facilitating it.

From my observations, nearly everyone wealthy person I’ve met had several things given to them that facilitated their wealth. Yes, they put the work, but there were other factors at play. Their parents made damn sure those other factors were there, and they required money. So while many “self-made” millionaires might not have been handed money, they had other consequential things provided. Hence I believe self-made stories are usually ruses to have people believe that such people got to where they are only by hard work.

If my children become rich, they will not be self-made considering all that my wife and I are providing for them now and will continue to provide, including inheritances.

 

[jaygreenb]

That article references billionaires which is a whole other kettle of fish. I’m comfortably on track to be a millionaire by 50 although that definition becomes less meaningful with inflation.

my wife is starting a business, we need to accumulate £80k in savings (or savings and loan) to get there which is doable.

I’m not disputing that there’s lots I can do and will do, I’m salty that I have to do it, basically, as I’ve said, while we are toiling working long nights and probably dropping dead of heart failure, others just waltz off and get everything for free.

I would seriously question the idea most millionaires are “self made”. My strong suspicion is they inherited or were given something, made it work and then it’s ascribed to self-made. They got £200k, bought a ton of property and then hey presto. Or those who are “self made” but leave out all the private education they received.

As I’ve said, I meet lots of them and it’s very rare I meet anyone who genuinely came from the wrong side of the tracks who now has millions.

I think a lot of this general narrative of it being a choice is propitiated by people who had leg ups but did SOME work and don’t want to feel privileged about it, so amplify their contribution and would ascribe the foundational opportunity - ie their family capital, as “you need a little bit of luck”

There is no possible way I can start running businesses as my employer wants their moneys worth and with keeping myself fit, and looking after my daughter there is no way I can go and do a 2nd job. At present I’m just saving what I can into passive income,and it will pay off but it takes time - years. I’ll be done and dusted at 57 I know that much.

I’m not disputing people can make it, I’m just saying people make it a lot easier with a bit of good luck and I don’t feel I’ve had any.Boo fkin hoo. The issue is it makes me resentful when I’m grinding, it’s 6am here and ive already done an hours work, and others are waking up at 8am, checking their enormous balances and doing things they enjoy for shytting a golden egg. I suppose people are waking up in crack dens too. So things could be worse it’s just those around me almost all of them have it better. Perils of being working class but in a middle class profession

I didn't read the article but this was posted as a summary for it, so just posted the link. I know the United States has a similar percentage. Let me see what I can find.

A survey by French bank Societe Generale and Forbes of super-rich people in 12 countries, many of whom are billionaires, found 80 percent of the British sample entirely “self-made,” as opposed to inherited wealth or a mix of both. Among the U.S. rich, 68 percent were entirely self-made, the report said

Here is the US

79% Of Millionaires Are Self-Made — Lessons From Those Who Built Wealth Without Inheritance

Recent studies have shown that the notion that most millionaires are born into wealth is a myth. Recent studies have shown that the notion that most millionaires are born into wealth is a myth. In fact, over two-thirds of millionaires are self-made, according to a 2019 study by Wealth-X and a...

finance.yahoo.com

.

Not going to beat a dead horse anymore, I just completely disagree and in fact I think the opposite. People who do not reach certain financial levels they want, tell themselves this as an excuse that it was out of their control instead taking accountability or making the sacrifices need. You are saying it is impossible to do without actually doing any work towards it or trying. I guarantee you could put more effort than you are now or have since you were 18. Maybe it takes a few years to get to a point you can make a run at it with sacrificesand planning made now. You haven't even attempted to solve anything,

If you are living middle class, you are not on the wrong side of the tracks. I have stated that they typically come from the middle class multiple times in this thread. This is because they grow up in a stable household and do not develop the dysfunctional behaviors, socialization or vernacular of low income areas. Most also did not get everything handed to them so they have to develop a work ethic. I never said they are people who grew up in poverty. Providing a good education and stable home, should be the baseline, definitely does not disqualify self made. That is at worst all parents should provide. You are moving the goal posts several times here

From my observations, nearly everyone wealthy person I’ve met had several things given to them that facilitated their wealth. Yes, they put the work, but there were other factors at play. Their parents made damn sure those other factors were there, and they required money. So while many “self-made” millionaires might not have been handed money, they had other consequential things provided. Hence I believe self-made stories are usually ruses to have people believe that such people got to where they are only by hard work.

If my children become rich, they will not be self-made considering all that my wife and I are providing for them now and will continue to provide, including inheritances.

Not to be a d(ck and I do not know your situation, but if you are not a multimillionaire business owner yourself, you probably do not know or spend time with many. You are also not going to have access to their financials, most do not flaunt or share that info, so you a really not going to know who is who. The only reason I have access to a lot of them is because of the entrepreneurial organizations I have joined that having a 7 figure business is required to even get in, it also verified. Prior to that I had no idea who actually was or wasn't and most friends were middle to upper middle class, we also never shared each others bank and financial statements.. These groups are based on developing deep relationships with other business owners and being fully transparent is part of it. Confidentially and trust is a big piece so we sign some pretty thorough NDA's, any violations is at minimum you get kicked out. We actually share each others personal and business financials as well as heavy personal challenges going on. It helps form the foundation of strong long term relationships

I do not look at providing a stable home and education as a way to disqualify, that should be baseline of what good parents provide, Neither does it take away the massive amounts of risk, hard work and discipline to actually actually reach those levels. If your parents pass away when you are 50-60 and they leave you some money that also doesn't negate your previous accomplishments

These back and forth's are going round and round. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so agree to disagree

 

[Manure Spherian]

I do not look at providing a stable home and education as a way to disqualify

Neither do I. And those are two things I wasn’t solely talking about.

These back and forth's are going round and round. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so agree to disagree

Right.

 

[rench]

With people i work w i cover the tax, any shade, personal problems. Deal with people trying to screw it up. Incredible business model, i'm 32 and had a big role in quite alot of $. (billion(s)+. Problem is i have to work too hard just for a drop to trickle down, i feel ancient

 

[jaygreenb]

Neither do I. And those are two things I wasn’t solely talking about.

Right.

Semantics. I have never really heard a successful person say or boast "self made", usually only the people full of it on social media that. Growing up in a decent area with good parental role models who are able to provide some support is definitely beneficial, not going to argue that. Even then, a much larger percentage of people who grew up with that and help, do not elevate to those next levels.

Their parents made damn sure those other factors were there, and they required money. So while many “self-made” millionaires might not have been handed money, they had other consequential things provided. Hence I believe self-made stories are usually ruses to have people believe that such people got to where they are only by hard work.

You said what is needed requires money, pretty vague, whats the cutoff? Living in a good school district requires money so does food and just about everything else. Long term business success has much more to do with the individual and the building of good habits. According to your statement, anyone middle class with supportive parents is disqualified. Casting a large net

 

[Fruitbat]

I didn't read the article but this was posted as a summary for it, so just posted the link. I know the United States has a similar percentage. Let me see what I can find.

A survey by French bank Societe Generale and Forbes of super-rich people in 12 countries, many of whom are billionaires, found 80 percent of the British sample entirely “self-made,” as opposed to inherited wealth or a mix of both. Among the U.S. rich, 68 percent were entirely self-made, the report said

Here is the US

79% Of Millionaires Are Self-Made — Lessons From Those Who Built Wealth Without Inheritance

Recent studies have shown that the notion that most millionaires are born into wealth is a myth. Recent studies have shown that the notion that most millionaires are born into wealth is a myth. In fact, over two-thirds of millionaires are self-made, according to a 2019 study by Wealth-X and a...

finance.yahoo.com

.

Not going to beat a dead horse anymore, I just completely disagree and in fact I think the opposite. People who do not reach certain financial levels they want, tell themselves this as an excuse that it was out of their control instead taking accountability or making the sacrifices need. You are saying it is impossible to do without actually doing any work towards it or trying. I guarantee you could put more effort than you are now or have since you were 18. Maybe it takes a few years to get to a point you can make a run at it with sacrificesand planning made now. You haven't even attempted to solve anything,

If you are living middle class, you are not on the wrong side of the tracks. I have stated that they typically come from the middle class multiple times in this thread. This is because they grow up in a stable household and do not develop the dysfunctional behaviors, socialization or vernacular of low income areas. Most also did not get everything handed to them so they have to develop a work ethic. I never said they are people who grew up in poverty. Providing a good education and stable home, should be the baseline, definitely does not disqualify self made. That is at worst all parents should provide. You are moving the goal posts several times here



Not to be a d(ck and I do not know your situation, but if you are not a multimillionaire business owner yourself, you probably do not know or spend time with many. You are also not going to have access to their financials, most do not flaunt or share that info, so you a really not going to know who is who. The only reason I have access to a lot of them is because of the entrepreneurial organizations I have joined that having a 7 figure business is required to even get in, it also verified. Prior to that I had no idea who actually was or wasn't and most friends were middle to upper middle class, we also never shared each others bank and financial statements.. These groups are based on developing deep relationships with other business owners and being fully transparent is part of it. Confidentially and trust is a big piece so we sign some pretty thorough NDA's, any violations is at minimum you get kicked out. We actually share each others personal and business financials as well as heavy personal challenges going on. It helps form the foundation of strong long term relationships

I do not look at providing a stable home and education as a way to disqualify, that should be baseline of what good parents provide, Neither does it take away the massive amounts of risk, hard work and discipline to actually actually reach those levels. If your parents pass away when you are 50-60 and they leave you some money that also doesn't negate your previous accomplishments

These back and forth's are going round and round. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so agree to disagree

OK just to let you know I started asking questions and I’ve got a meeting about a self employed role - not entirely my own business but it’s a structure which supports entrepreneurs.

My background is wealth management, the reason I’ve been adamant about these things is a healthy majority of people I deal with inherit their money. Perhaps there’s a bias in there - self made men tend to manage their own money perhaps and it’s people with no business experience who come to professionals.

I’m a long way from starting this as it’s an initial chat.

 

[jaygreenb]

Perhaps there’s a bias in there - self made men tend to manage their own money perhaps and it’s people with no business experience who come to professionals.

I’m a long way from starting this as it’s an initial chat.

That makes sense, probably a part of the disconnect. I have seen business owners most often using professionals when they have a big liquidity event, like selling their business where very quickly they accumulate a large sum of money. Most are not used to dealing with that all at once compared to a more gradual increase.

 

[Fruitbat]

That makes sense, probably a part of the disconnect. I have seen business owners most often using professionals when they have a big liquidity event, like selling their business where very quickly they accumulate a large sum of money. Most are not used to dealing with that all at once compared to a more gradual increase.

These are the guys I like working with. The only issue with them is they tend to know a bit which makes them dangerous AF. Knowing a little when investing is ten times worse than knowing nothing.

Pros aren’t any brighter than clients and clients can learn the basics of what we do with a bit of work. However, all a career allows you to do is fk it up so many times you know how to not fk it up.

 

[jaygreenb]

These are the guys I like working with. The only issue with them is they tend to know a bit which makes them dangerous AF. Knowing a little when investing is ten times worse than knowing nothing.

Pros aren’t any brighter than clients and clients can learn the basics of what we do with a bit of work. However, all a career allows you to do is fk it up so many times you know how to not fk it up.

Oh absolutely! The amount of times I have seen a lot of them get completely demolished or scammed is off the charts, mind blowing really, some multiple times on the craziest stuff lol Because they are highly successful in one area they automatically assumes it translates to everything else. That same confidence and ego that kept them going in the hard times in business doesn't allow them to see they are wrong or accept critical feedback until too late haha By nature, most are also extremely comfortable with risk so those mistakes get outsized. I have had to learn the hard way before myself. Can laugh now but man that was an expensive lesson ahaha Managing the downside is extremely important, usually don't fully realize why until you get caught

 

[AAAgent]

Here’s an admission. Beat me up as appropriate:

Ive worked very hard and achieved quite a lot for what I was born with. I’m not here to brag, but I make good money and career has been a success. I make significantly more than most people I’m friends with.

As I hit 40s, my friends are getting inheritances. Now, naturally it’s sad to lose parents and relatives. However - I will too, it’s a moot point.

Some of these folks have immediately become as wealthy, and in some cases, 2 or 3 times as wealthy as me. They now have the option of brilliant experiences, privately educating their children, taking an easier working pattern. I have to pedal harder, like I’ve always had to.

I’ve responded by just making myself better, and that’s all I can do. I stand to inherit nothing.

It is very hard not to become envious or resentful. I’ve done everything right, and I’ll struggle to ever be as superficially successful. Sure, I’ve done it in my own right but that’s not what matters. I am still slaving for a mortgage, getting stressed, while others can enjoy the good life. You only get one life and it seems largely dictated by good fortune.

There’s no real solution to this other than try to contain my resentment and to try to do the same for my children. However, it sucks. It’s hard to not feel like there’s no point. what matters at the end of the day in this world is money and it doesn’t matter how you get it.

Life isn’t fair, no matter how many times I tell myself this, it doesn’t get any easier. I do wonder how people with this good fortune feel about it, I mean, do they feel ashamed of it, or rightfully feel entitled? I suppose they are just enjoying it.

I used to think “aha, don’t worry because I’m gonna be so successful in the end I’ll prove I can do it alone” but I can’t. There’s people in my social circle who will always have a better life and they’ve done nothing to merit it, and it bugs me.

it’s not like I begrudge them of it, I’d just like the same too. This is merely a venting of frustration but it would be nice if people acknowledged those who’ve had to earn it but nobody does really. People don’t question the guy in the brand new Beamer, even though he could be a lucky loser, whereas the guy behind him in the older model had to crawl through glass to get that.

tough world, buckle up and all that but it’s depressing. That’s all, cheers, I’ll cry into my coffee more. :-(

Envy and jealousy are difficult to suppress.

Focusing on yourself and improving yourself yields a lot more benefit than focusing on others. Venting about it is normal just don't get caught up in it. I spent a few years trying to earn my inheritance from my dad who is wealthy. I eventually said fvck you and left. Made my money on my own and now, it's the opposite. I don't need or want his money. His grand kids have everything they want and aren't reliant off of him.

I know the feeling though. I came to this forum 16 years ago. Bottom of the barrel like many, and clawed my way up. Made plans, got smart, executed on said plans, invested/focused on myself. In the end, I crushed it. It definitely wasn't a fun journey. I was broke, and lonely 8/16 of those years. The weird one who didn't party as much, was studying and doing weird sh1t on weekends like researching history, finance, economics, and reading books. Focusing on saving/paying off debt and figuring out how to get rich or die trying. It all worked out though.

Trust the process.

 

[rench]

Envy and jealousy are difficult to suppress.

Focusing on yourself and improving yourself yields a lot more benefit than focusing on others. Venting about it is normal just don't get caught up in it. I spent a few years trying to earn my inheritance from my dad who is wealthy. I eventually said fvck you and left. Made my money on my own and now, it's the opposite. I don't need or want his money. His grand kids have everything they want and aren't reliant off of him.

I know the feeling though. I came to this forum 16 years ago. Bottom of the barrel like many, and clawed my way up. Made plans, got smart, executed on said plans, invested/focused on myself. In the end, I crushed it. It definitely wasn't a fun journey. I was broke, and lonely 8/16 of those years. The weird one who didn't party as much, was studying and doing weird sh1t on weekends like researching history, finance, economics, and reading books. Focusing on saving/paying off debt and figuring out how to get rich or die trying. It all worked out though.

Trust the process.

Awesome, and i rarely ever say that

 

[FlirtLife]

My background is wealth management, the reason I’ve been adamant about these things is a healthy majority of people I deal with inherit their money. Perhaps there’s a bias in there - self made men tend to manage their own money perhaps and it’s people with no business experience who come to professionals.

I think company founders tend to focus their money and effort on their business, which doesn't leave as much money on the side to manage. If you haven't read "The Millionaire Next Door", that could help with the bias you mention.

I’m comfortably on track to be a millionaire by 50 although that definition becomes less meaningful with inflation.

Two assumptions: (1) you had to climb the career ladder in wealth management; (2) 10 years ago your salary was not on track for $1M anytime soon. Maybe it's more frustrating now that you can see $1M in your sights, while the job has gotten much more difficult. I think the envy comes from wishing you did not have to grind it out in your current job.

You seem willing to travel... have you considered moving outside the UK to a job that pays better with less frustration?

 

[Fruitbat]

I I think the envy comes from wishing you did not have to grind it out in your current job.

You seem willing to travel... have you considered moving outside the UK to a job that pays better with less frustration?

yes to both

 

[AAAgent]

Oh absolutely! The amount of times I have seen a lot of them get completely demolished or scammed is off the charts, mind blowing really, some multiple times on the craziest stuff lol Because they are highly successful in one area they automatically assumes it translates to everything else. That same confidence and ego that kept them going in the hard times in business doesn't allow them to see they are wrong or accept critical feedback until too late haha By nature, most are also extremely comfortable with risk so those mistakes get outsized. I have had to learn the hard way before myself. Can laugh now but man that was an expensive lesson ahaha Managing the downside is extremely important, usually don't fully realize why until you get caught

This sounds like me. Huge risk appetite with intellect and experience. Eventually when the right opportunity came along at the right time, given my knowledge and experience, i crushed it.

Also since my risk appetite is big, and im confident of my decisions, timing isn't always right and causes my losses to be substantial. Money is sometimes just treated as digits on a screen when you have enough of it.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

@Fruitbat

 

[jaygreenb]

This sounds like me. Huge risk appetite with intellect and experience. Eventually when the right opportunity came along at the right time, given my knowledge and experience, i crushed it.

Also since my risk appetite is big, and im confident of my decisions, timing isn't always right and causes my losses to be substantial. Money is sometimes just treated as digits on a screen when you have enough of it.

That's the catch, to get past certain ceilings you have to be comfortable with risk and confident you will figure it out. If you only play it safe, to some degree you are going to be limited. You are going to learn the most in those excruciatingly painful lessons where you really have to examine and adjust. The lessons of my biggest loses were always key later in my biggest wins. Especially as you get older and have more to lose, less energy and time to recover is to never let one situation take you out entirely. Overcoming adversity and failure is incredibly important in personal development and should be embraced especially when young