Envy

[Fruitbat]

The people you are looking at and comparing probably aren't living as carefree, happy and easy as you perceive them to be. You only really see the side they are presenting to the world. On the other side you seem to be doing vastly better than the majority of people out there. Not sure why someone would feel embarrassed if their parents did well. Would you want your child to feel that way about you if you worked hard to give them a comfortable life? Do you feel ashamed or embarrassed being born in a western country as opposed to poverty in a 3rd world country?

Might be hard, but it is completely wasted energy to spend it on comparing what you have to others. There are always going to be people doing better and worse no matter where you are in life. Focus on what you can be grateful for as opposed to what is lacking would be my only advice

im sure their lives aren’t perfect, no one’s is, but the idea of not being absolutely beholden to the quest for survival….for most people not blessed like this, just being able to retire before say age 65 is a dream. Whereas others in their 40s are paying off mortgages. Realistically what problems can you have?

yes it is wasted energy, just waking up early and getting home late, being tired, when I’ve done the right thing by and large whereas many others have been lazy AF and don’t need to….I think the optimism of my youth is waning and I’m realising my old adage that anyone can succeed with effort isn’t strictly true: A lot of your outcomes and quality of life has nothing to do with what you’ve personally done.

acceptance is key and you’re right, I probably have had things better than 3rd world countries but poverty is relative and there are a ton of people in the 3rd world who in relative terms have things better.

 

[Fruitbat]

I think I'm older than you, so I'm seeing a lot of this. My parents were dirt poor, but they stayed together and raised me well, for which I am grateful. I never got any sort of inheritance to speak of, nor did I expect any. I built my own wealth so I could retire early. And I see people who got large inheritances also. The way I look at it, this is God taking care of them. I know a lot of older people who really should be barely surviving, but somehow they get enough to get by. They have children who put money in their bank accounts, or as has been said, they inherit a windfall.

I have the satisfaction of knowing that I earned my own money, and built my own means to live out my years. In the end, I find that more satisfying than just having it handed to me, as fun as that sounds. I wouldn't change places with them. As I said, I just look at it as God taking care of them in His own way, just as He did with me. I feel privileged that I was allowed to earn the money.

Another thing I have always thought when someone else got a big raise or something, which wards off envy. And that is that their good fortune doesn't take any money out of my pocket, so I just try to be happy for them.

Sure I don’t begrudge the big raise, the converse of your comment: You’ve had a life of toil and suffering and others probably have more than you and they’ve had a far easier, far more comfortable life.

To me it feels like slavery while others chuckle at you slaving Away in the fields.

I can rant about it all I want and it ain’t gonna change. I’ll keep on doingwhat I do but if anything despite being a lifelong conservative it’s making me start to think the left have a point.
what good is a society when one’s quality of life is largely dictated by circumstances of birth and not your actions and virtues?

 

[Fruitbat]

How do you avoid being born in a place that is a 3rd world country like 70+% of the population on earth?

Or being born with genetic disorders that leave you in a wheelchair or unable to live a normal life?

If you live in a house with running water and electricity and have food in your fridge and don't have to worry about any of that you are automatically doing better than almost 3 out of every 4 people alive.

Jordan Peterson talks about this. Studies show it’s not poverty which creates crime and unhappiness, it’s relative poverty.

ie you are happier being a guy in a poor slum who’s earning $600 a month when everyone else is earning $200 than someone earning $3000 a month in America or Europe when his tribe are all earning $10,000.

it’s why you can go to remote villages in the 3rd world and nobody tries to rob you despite them being poor, yet go to the cities where the poor mix wjrh the ultra rich and they’ll shoot you in the head for your mobile phone.

Its good sometimes to vent my frustrations on this board, like a lot of men I can’t really do this IRL and few people have any interest to listen anyway.

Its good to have this discussion and I can get this out of my system.

Mainly this is because at an early age I was known for living a fairly ordered life while most of my peers were unemployed/selling droogs, and I’ve enjoyed the status of “the career guy” type thing who’s doing well and now basically I’m becoming the poorest one who’s working all the time while I get leap frogged because I had a poor family.

im still doing pretty well, really well in terms of income compared to the world at large. I have a fairly high status job which others don’t, most of them. This can be taken away in an instant though, I have to be on ball whereas when the others have paid their mortgages off they have nothing left to worry about, and that’s really what I crave: to get off this fking treadmill.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Matthew 25:29 stuck with me

Hallelujah brother. I'm not trying to stuff a camel through the eye of a needle here. And that takes the pressure off. It's nice.

 

[Fruitbat]

Hallelujah brother. I'm not trying to stuff a camel through the eye of a needle here. And that takes the pressure off. It's nice.

I remember that verse from my childhood. While I’m in no way trying to provoke, I did think it’s a fairly convenient message to tell people don’t worry about being poor as you’ll be rewarded when you die.

I really think Nietzsche had an amazing take on Christianity as the religion designed for/created for slaves. I often wonder if the Romans/Isreal created it for this purpose: turn the other cheek, the dominated and meek will be rewarded.

If I was a ruling power I would be absolutely loving a populace who feel that their poverty and lack of power were virtues.

 

[Westminster]

Advice from the old lady:

Life is not fair. It is what it is. I grew up in a very affluent area with great wealth all around me however my parents, although both with law degrees, never managed money well. They didn’t understand basic financial principles and were rather stingy, which repels wealth. So some of my classmates drove Porches and BMWs etc in high school. One kid drove a Maserati. They all dressed expensively and had generally nicer homes & things than our family. But my extended family were all millionaires to greater or lesser degree and that was normal. Affluence was normal in my world.

But nobody gave me anything except my father paid for undergrad. I put that to good use & got two bachelors degrees in vastly different fields in a 4 year span. I interned as a senior and then the week after graduation from college went full time to work.

No traveling Europe for a year, no lavish vacations, nothing. I had no debt and other than college no help. I know close girlfriends whose families bought them first homes, and I don’t mean basic starter homes either, I mean homes that are now pushing 1M in value. In trust so they can’t lose it in a divorce. Stuff like that. Parents who upgrade their adult children’s cars every few years, cash. Lifestyle.

And of course I could have leveraged my beauty like so many women do for the right connections, for lifestyle. I didn’t. Believe me there have been days where I thought, Gee. Should I have sold out to the doctor or lawyer or wealthy guy for an easy/ different life? Did I make an error? All my sisters were able to be full time moms & drop out of the workforce for years whilst their kids were young. Not me. I took off 7-8 weeks after each birth (surgical C sections X 3) and so 4 weeks after being literally cut in half I was on a plane for business traveling, usually with a breast pump. I’d ship milk home on dry ice via FedEx. Not kidding. I afforded my husband staying home after his business failed. Did that seem fair? Nope.

My stepmom stole as much as she could from my father as he lay dying. 400K, which split 4 ways is 100K each. Vapid terrible woman in the end who got everything my father intended her to have and about 2/3 of what he meant to leave my sisters and I. I don’t have nuts but that was a kick in the nuts to be sure. Bitterness doesn’t help. It’s gone.

You can’t fret over these things @Fruitbat. There’s always someone with much more. Like you everything I have I worked my guts out for, I sacrificed so much.

Be grateful. Be happy for your friends and those more fortunate. Fortunes can change in an instant for worse too. The struggle teaches you things your Insta millionaire friends haven’t had to learn. Be grateful for the struggle, be grateful for your family. I’m looking into investing some of my modest wealth into a home for each kid once they settle on where. I’ve bought them cars & taught them everything I can; everything they are willing to hear.

It’s all you can do.

I will say this. In time you need to reward yourself for working your ass off. I collect art, which I enjoy, I like good jewelry. Now I enjoy a car most people can only dream of. And *I* did it. It wasn’t given to me. Blood sweat & tears I earned it.

It’s a good feeling. Adopt a grateful attitude my friend. You are doing well. From one bootstrapper to another, I feel you.

Now go kiss that wife who loves you and cuddle your little girl. That is what matters. The rest is just stuff.

I find the bit I've highlighted intriguing. Could you please explain what you mean by being stingy repels wealth.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I remember that verse from my childhood. While I’m in no way trying to provoke, I did think it’s a fairly convenient message to tell people don’t worry about being poor as you’ll be rewarded when you die.

I really think Nietzsche had an amazing take on Christianity as the religion designed for/created for slaves. I often wonder if the Romans/Isreal created it for this purpose: turn the other cheek, the dominated and meek will be rewarded.

If I was a ruling power I would be absolutely loving a populace who feel that their poverty and lack of power were virtues.

Fair enough, my friend. You're still my brother no matter what you believe.

 

[Dr.Suave]

If you live in a house with running water you are automatically doing better than almost 3 out of every 4 people alive.

This is very true. My whole state has been having trouble with the water supply ever since the new governor took over. I have a "Tinaco" (not sure how its called in english, a "Water Tank" I guess) so I´ve been fine but the water comes and goes.

 

[jaygreenb]

im sure their lives aren’t perfect, no one’s is, but the idea of not being absolutely beholden to the quest for survival….for most people not blessed like this, just being able to retire before say age 65 is a dream. Whereas others in their 40s are paying off mortgages. Realistically what problems can you have?

yes it is wasted energy, just waking up early and getting home late, being tired, when I’ve done the right thing by and large whereas many others have been lazy AF and don’t need to….I think the optimism of my youth is waning and I’m realising my old adage that anyone can succeed with effort isn’t strictly true: A lot of your outcomes and quality of life has nothing to do with what you’ve personally done.

acceptance is key and you’re right, I probably have had things better than 3rd world countries but poverty is relative and there are a ton of people in the 3rd world who in relative terms have things better.

You seem a like a good guy but going to be blunt. If I ever talked like this I would hope one of my friends slap the crap out of me, and I would do the same. I'm assuming you are 30+ and a grown man. Why are you still thinking about what your parents did or didn't do for you? You are not a child, get over it, and if you can't on your own, get professional help. Seriously. Be grateful they are not a constant financial drain on you like many are to many, myself included.

I have seen you posting how you are something like top 10% income. So now, you can only get ahead if someone gives you a few million? You could start a business. Suck it up, make tough choices, stop posting on forums all day, downsize your expenses, work on a business nights and weekends until you make enough to do full time. If you want more you have to earn it. Most successful people had a minimum of 5-10yrs of extreme sacrifice and discipline, some for many more than that until they find the right formula. If you want more you have to work for it. You either have to be highly skilled in arena in something most are not or be willing to take on risk. You saying you can't do it because you don't have free money from your parents is next level BS and cope. I have personally seen people with far less and massive roadblocks achieve massive amounts of wealth, they make me look like pizza delivery guy

Your attitude and outlook is a much bigger hinderance than any lack of family monetary support. It reeks of resentment, envy, entitlement and victimization. I have never met one successful person in business who thinks like this even if they have limitations or hardships. In fact, even if you do not mention it, with this type of energy you are going to repel people who are successful. Having your back against the wall, do or die, going to really set your life back is probably one of the greatest motivators there is when starting a business. If you succeed and become successful, you will most likely never be able to obtain that level of focus, determination and fire again. Having rich parents backing you is not the norm and is in fact a great hinderance in personal development. Men need adversity to overcome to realize their potential.

 

[BeExcellent]

Agree 100% with @jaygreenb on this. Pity parties are a waste of time. At some point you must burn the boats and go forward. It takes commitment and it takes faith. The outcome is unknown but you are in charge of creating it. That should be very good news.

Work on your mindset. Your mindset will determine your outcome. Attitude determines altitude. In flight it’s literal. In life it’s just as literal. It’s a platitude for a reason. Digest that, don’t just dismiss it. Attitude is what holds you back.

 

[BeExcellent]

So for @Westminster I shall start a new thread in Wealth & Success to address your question. Best not to hijack this one…..

Going to work out & then shall create it……

 

[Westminster]

So for @Westminster I shall start a new thread in Wealth & Success to address your question. Best not to hijack this one…..

Going to work out & then shall create it……

Thank you, I will look out for your new thread.

 

[kavi]

People today maybe working harder and longer hours than ever before. They say even slaves in Rome had better working conditions.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR GEN-X + TO WORK THAT HARD AND STILL BE ABLE TO FORM RELATIONSHIPS, BE HAPPY, AND HAVE MEANINGFUL LIVES.

The government in both the UK, US, infact all countried NEED TO pull their fingers out their backside and make these places better.

I feel bad for Fruitbat, it is really really messed up out there. The thing is for me, I have some deeper insights into relationships and other meaningful things and tbh at this point in my life I would never take money or this financial/career game seriously whatsoever. I would only ever take the easy route as far as moneteray success is concerned as IT HAS NO VALUE WHATSOEVER for one who knows the deeper truths and I would only do the bare minimum.

But fruitbat shouldnt worry about other people because tbh there is no such thing as an easy life sitting on your butt cos one has money. Even if you have lots of money and say one doesnt need to work it is still pretty **** cos one can be alone and it is not possible to have 'good energy' when 90% of people around you in your country have bad energy.

All you can do is seek to lower your hours, demands, expectations by choosing an easy job or one you enjoy more.

Only a fool would be aspirational today. Smart people are not aspirational anymore, there is nothing to aspire to, other than to be away from the bad energy of losers in mainstream society.

My advice dont work hard dont try to make it, be smart dont be a retrd.

 

[rench]

People today maybe working harder and longer hours than ever before. They say even slaves in Rome had better working conditions.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR GEN-X + TO WORK THAT HARD AND STILL BE ABLE TO FORM RELATIONSHIPS, BE HAPPY, AND HAVE MEANINGFUL LIVES.

The government in both the UK, US, infact all countried NEED TO pull their fingers out their backside and make these places better.

I feel bad for Fruitbat, it is really really messed up out there. The thing is for me, I have some deeper insights into relationships and other meaningful things and tbh at this point in my life I would never take money or this financial/career game seriously whatsoever. I would only ever take the easy route as far as moneteray success is concerned as IT HAS NO VALUE WHATSOEVER for one who knows the deeper truths and I would only do the bare minimum.

But fruitbat shouldnt worry about other people because tbh there is no such thing as an easy life sitting on your butt cos one has money. Even if you have lots of money and say one doesnt need to work it is still pretty **** cos one can be alone and it is not possible to have 'good energy' when 90% of people around you in your country have bad energy.

All you can do is seek to lower your hours, demands, expectations by choosing an easy job or one you enjoy more.

Only a fool would be aspirational today. Smart people are not aspirational anymore, there is nothing to aspire to, other than to be away from the bad energy of losers in mainstream society.

My advice dont work hard dont try to make it, be smart dont be a retrd.

Why be a king when u could be a god

 

[Fruitbat]

Fair enough, my friend. You're still my brother no matter what you believe.

Amen to that. I would most certainly side with the bible bashers should we ever have some kind of religious war in a mad max scenario.

 

[Fruitbat]

You seem a like a good guy but going to be blunt. If I ever talked like this I would hope one of my friends slap the crap out of me,

Agreed. I was upfront that I know it’s wrong and I’m just venting like a byatch. Fully accepted and owned

and I would do the same. I'm assuming you are 30+ and a grown man. Why are you still thinking about what your parents did or didn't do for you?
I’m not specifically blaming my parents although they did retire early and spend the large inheritances they got and then mortgaged the family home so we get nothing, largely to fund drugs and alcoholism and gambling addictions.


You are not a child, get over it, and if you can't on your own, get professional help. Seriously. Be grateful they are not a constant financial drain on you like many are to many, myself included.

Sorry to hear that. I’m just venting I don’t need professional help. I can’t really show you how I actually live my life but stuff annoys me and i let it out online

I have seen you posting how you are something like top 10% income. So now, you can only get ahead if someone gives you a few million?
because of high tax in this country and property prices and the way the tax system works, the only place I am wealthy is in my retirement fund. It’s very, very hard to build up large sums of liquid cash. So yes, I would say the only people below retirement age who are the wealthiest are people with rich relatives. I’m taxed about 50% over a level, after my family bills are paid the part I’m supposed to save is either taxed or I have to put it in a pension. I earn well north of 100k sterling but realistically I can save about 10-15k a year in cash. This, compares to several people I know being handed 300-500k cash. So no, it is almost impossible to “get ahead”

You could start a business. Suck it up, make tough choices,

Starting a business would mean seeing my earnings reduce from about 130-150k to about 30k at best in my first year. So I would have to sell my house and wouldn’t be able to support my family, so no, this isn’t an option without some kind of capital.
stop posting on forums all day,

Not all day but fair enough

downsize your expenses, work on a business nights and weekends until you make enough to do full time.

I’m not permitted to run separate businesses on my contract and also you can’t run the kind of business I can actually do part time

If you want more you have to earn it. Most successful people had a minimum of 5-10yrs of extreme sacrifice and discipline, some for many more than that until they find the right formula.

Nearly all those I know who’ve done it weren’t the sole breadwinners and had a wealthy partner or parents to help pay the bills. I work really hard at present - 60 hours. With childcare etc it’s quite difficult

If you want more you have to work for it. You either have to be highly skilled in arena in something most are not or be willing to take on risk. You saying you can't do it because you don't have free money from your parents is next level BS and cope.

I don’t think it is, I think it’s the reality of where I am and you’re touting BS law of attraction nonsense!

I have personally seen people with far less and massive roadblocks achieve massive amounts of wealth, they make me look like pizza delivery guy

I work in an industry where you get to know entrepreneurs and wealthy people and the vast majority I would say either inherited it, or worked in a field which required quite a bit of education. Those who are very wealthy and did it from are poor start are the exception, rather than the rule


Your attitude and outlook is a much bigger hinderance than any lack of family monetary support. It reeks of resentment, envy, entitlement and victimization.

I agree. It’s my poor point, disappointment too, floors me. I do find it easy to get into this state of mind and hard to get out o

I have never met one successful person in business who thinks like this even if they have limitations or hardships.

That’s true. It might be used as a source of enthusiasm if you channelled it correctly



In fact, even if you do not mention it, with this type of energy you are going to repel people who are successful. Having your back against the wall, do or die, going to really set your life back is probably one of the greatest motivators there is when starting a business. If you succeed and become successful, you will most likely never be able to obtain that level of focus, determination and fire again. Having rich parents backing you is not the norm and is in fact a great hinderance in personal development. Men need adversity to overcome to realize their potential

Dependent on your definition, I have been pretty successful in terms of career. The initial post was really about how important your background is to actually living a fulfilled life.
I’ve been doing this for a long old time and I’ve made mistakes along the way, but it’s been quite difficult fo actually build wealth. It’s only last few years the earnings went up.
I think in the final analysis it is a stupid thing to waste your time on and counter productive. At the end of the day most of us are working till the day we can do something we actually want to do, that’s the objective really and when you’ve put a lot of effort in, others have been coasting and they can coast some more and enjoy what I consider basically the objective - financial independence. I think the issue is dwelling on specific things and not noticing all the other people with larger problems.

nonetheless an interesting discussion, and I appreciate its not a virtuous character trait and I’m well aware I’ve always been tended towards envy and resentment.

 

[zekko]

Sure I don’t begrudge the big raise, the converse of your comment: You’ve had a life of toil and suffering and others probably have more than you and they’ve had a far easier, far more comfortable life.

To me it feels like slavery while others chuckle at you slaving Away in the fields.

Eh, I put in some work, but I was compensated. I never felt like a miserable slave. The way I look at it, a man should earn his own keep, and I was lucky enough to be healthy and able to do that.

 

[jaygreenb]

Not sure exactly what you do but according to this 80% of millionaires in UK are self made and didn't have outside wealth facilitating it. Maybe it is the subsection you are seeing but for the most part that is not true. My observation in the US is pretty similar to that as well. Most I know came from middle class backgrounds and did it themselves. If you grow up spoiled you really just are not going to develop that same resolve and work ethic. You also miss out on a lot of lessons learned with failure.

Britain has higher rate of self-made rich than U.S.

Britain's billionaires are more likely than their U.S. counterparts to have made their own money rather than inherited it, a study has found, challenging popular perceptions of greater social mobility in America.

www.reuters.com

What I am saying may sound cliche but it is the truth. Ask anyone who has actually done it themselves, imagine they say something similar. If you have a non compete with your job there is no rule the business you do is in the same realm. I completely switched industries. There are plenty of things you could try and do part time nights and weekends with relatively low cost. Go knock on doors at small commercial buildings, do cleaning at nights and as you get more accounts scale up on hiring. Do some sort of online business, sell a product, start small and see what sells. Create a digital product to help people learn in an area of your expertise. There are almost infinite possibilities. Really you just need to do something and figure out what works and what does not. Action and motion. Put yourself out there and apply real effort, you never know what doors will open up

I live in a 50% tax area too, owning a business greatly decreases that exposure. Is your wife working? If not, maybe she needs to for a few years. If she is not willing to, have her assist with a business. If she does not want to contribute at all and get a free ride, maybe look at who you are attaching yourself to. If you really want to do it instead of making excuses on why you can't. Take each one of those concerns and brainstorm what needs to happen and backwards engineer the steps to get. Then set goal dates that would can realistically reach.

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

Here’s an admission. Beat me up as appropriate:

Ive worked very hard and achieved quite a lot for what I was born with. I’m not here to brag, but I make good money and career has been a success. I make significantly more than most people I’m friends with.

As I hit 40s, my friends are getting inheritances. Now, naturally it’s sad to lose parents and relatives. However - I will too, it’s a moot point.

Some of these folks have immediately become as wealthy, and in some cases, 2 or 3 times as wealthy as me. They now have the option of brilliant experiences, privately educating their children, taking an easier working pattern. I have to pedal harder, like I’ve always had to.

I’ve responded by just making myself better, and that’s all I can do. I stand to inherit nothing.

It is very hard not to become envious or resentful. I’ve done everything right, and I’ll struggle to ever be as superficially successful. Sure, I’ve done it in my own right but that’s not what matters. I am still slaving for a mortgage, getting stressed, while others can enjoy the good life. You only get one life and it seems largely dictated by good fortune.

There’s no real solution to this other than try to contain my resentment and to try to do the same for my children. However, it sucks. It’s hard to not feel like there’s no point. what matters at the end of the day in this world is money and it doesn’t matter how you get it.

Life isn’t fair, no matter how many times I tell myself this, it doesn’t get any easier. I do wonder how people with this good fortune feel about it, I mean, do they feel ashamed of it, or rightfully feel entitled? I suppose they are just enjoying it.

I used to think “aha, don’t worry because I’m gonna be so successful in the end I’ll prove I can do it alone” but I can’t. There’s people in my social circle who will always have a better life and they’ve done nothing to merit it, and it bugs me.

it’s not like I begrudge them of it, I’d just like the same too. This is merely a venting of frustration but it would be nice if people acknowledged those who’ve had to earn it but nobody does really. People don’t question the guy in the brand new Beamer, even though he could be a lucky loser, whereas the guy behind him in the older model had to crawl through glass to get that.

tough world, buckle up and all that but it’s depressing. That’s all, cheers, I’ll cry into my coffee more. :-(

Maybe this will make you feel better. I only gained my inheritance by outliving a greedy sibling, who intended to kill me for it, he screwed up and went first. Would rather have been jointly inheriting nothing.

Money does strange things to people.

 

[Fruitbat]

Not sure exactly what you do but according to this 80% of millionaires in UK are self made and didn't have outside wealth facilitating it. Maybe it is the subsection you are seeing but for the most part that is not true. My observation in the US is pretty similar to that as well. Most I know came from middle class backgrounds and did it themselves. If you grow up spoiled you really just are not going to develop that same resolve and work ethic. You also miss out on a lot of lessons learned with failure.

Britain has higher rate of self-made rich than U.S.

Britain's billionaires are more likely than their U.S. counterparts to have made their own money rather than inherited it, a study has found, challenging popular perceptions of greater social mobility in America.

www.reuters.com

What I am saying may sound cliche but it is the truth. Ask anyone who has actually done it themselves, imagine they say something similar. If you have a non compete with your job there is no rule the business you do is in the same realm. I completely switched industries. There are plenty of things you could try and do part time nights and weekends with relatively low cost. Go knock on doors at small commercial buildings, do cleaning at nights and as you get more accounts scale up on hiring. Do some sort of online business, sell a product, start small and see what sells. Create a digital product to help people learn in an area of your expertise. There are almost infinite possibilities. Really you just need to do something and figure out what works and what does not. Action and motion. Put yourself out there and apply real effort, you never know what doors will open up

I live in a 50% tax area too, owning a business greatly decreases that exposure. Is your wife working? If not, maybe she needs to for a few years. If she is not willing to, have her assist with a business. If she does not want to contribute at all and get a free ride, maybe look at who you are attaching yourself to. If you really want to do it instead of making excuses on why you can't. Take each one of those concerns and brainstorm what needs to happen and backwards engineer the steps to get. Then set goal dates that would can realistically reach.

That article references billionaires which is a whole other kettle of fish. I’m comfortably on track to be a millionaire by 50 although that definition becomes less meaningful with inflation.

my wife is starting a business, we need to accumulate £80k in savings (or savings and loan) to get there which is doable.

I’m not disputing that there’s lots I can do and will do, I’m salty that I have to do it, basically, as I’ve said, while we are toiling working long nights and probably dropping dead of heart failure, others just waltz off and get everything for free.

I would seriously question the idea most millionaires are “self made”. My strong suspicion is they inherited or were given something, made it work and then it’s ascribed to self-made. They got £200k, bought a ton of property and then hey presto. Or those who are “self made” but leave out all the private education they received.

As I’ve said, I meet lots of them and it’s very rare I meet anyone who genuinely came from the wrong side of the tracks who now has millions.

I think a lot of this general narrative of it being a choice is propitiated by people who had leg ups but did SOME work and don’t want to feel privileged about it, so amplify their contribution and would ascribe the foundational opportunity - ie their family capital, as “you need a little bit of luck”

There is no possible way I can start running businesses as my employer wants their moneys worth and with keeping myself fit, and looking after my daughter there is no way I can go and do a 2nd job. At present I’m just saving what I can into passive income,and it will pay off but it takes time - years. I’ll be done and dusted at 57 I know that much.

I’m not disputing people can make it, I’m just saying people make it a lot easier with a bit of good luck and I don’t feel I’ve had any.Boo fkin hoo. The issue is it makes me resentful when I’m grinding, it’s 6am here and ive already done an hours work, and others are waking up at 8am, checking their enormous balances and doing things they enjoy for shytting a golden egg. I suppose people are waking up in crack dens too. So things could be worse it’s just those around me almost all of them have it better. Perils of being working class but in a middle class profession