Emergency advice required (keep or NEXT)

[Truebrit]

I need some good rapid advice from this forum as I have a dilemma on my hands. I have been with my 23yo GF since December 2007. She is attractive (hb8-9) and loyal – or so I thought. To give you some background, I have not been exclusive and as is usual I have kept various plates spinning – currently 3. This is not particularly relevant to my story but I recently I have been taking more and more time out at evening etc “working late” to service these plates – perhaps 2-3 times per week

As such I have neglected my GF to a certain extent. She is supposed to be moving in with me in two weeks – I am still in two minds about it.

To get to the point, recently she started a new job and has described them all. It is a sales office and the guys there are the usual hunter gatherer types that you are normal in that environment. One of them she did give indirect attraction descriptions, a guy who has worked there has a live-inGF of 8 years but “cheats on her at every opportunity.” She has shown an element of interest and pretty much said he was hot. She has also started spending a lot of money she hasn't got (not mine) on new office clothes and shoes etc – more than normal.

Recently they went on a night out for a meal and then back to one of the girls houses there, was supposed to come back around 11 – called me at 11.30 saying they had just got to the girls house and were having a few drinks, but she could go straight home rather than come to mine as planned. Here I was a bit (lot) AFC and rather than respond “that's fine” said that I would likely be awake in an hour so call when she was coming round. She called me at 1.30am, got a cab and came round drunk and wanting sex. I was passive aggressive with her when she ame back (AFC I know) but the rest of the weekend was fine went out etc. I got it together at that point and acted as normal. At this point I went into her phone as I was suspicious and in her Draft messages (ones not sent) there were two messages – one said “when are we going to R V” (rendezvous I am guessing) and the other was “hurry up”. I don't know who these were intended for – but not for me for sure.

Anyway – this weekend the entire office went to a theme park. I said I was happy for her to go and didn't make the mistake of offering resistance – I was positive and non-chalent. She was supposed to go for two days but on Thursday this week said that she would come back Saturday (I had set up my plate spinning regardless that night), but we would speak to Saturday night when she was home. She said this was because she didn't want to spend all all weekend with her workmates and to see me on the Sunday. So basically a compromise – I said I don't mind go all weekend if you want to dont come back just for me.

Anyway – she went Friday night after saying at lunch time she would call me for sure when she got there. I hesrd nothing until 1am when she sent a text saying “got her ok – ill call you tommorow”. I ignored it until the next day and a couple of calls until saturday evening I answered briefly saying my battery was running out and would speak to her sunday.

I ignored all her calls today – she just sent me a text saying “this is really not like you please call me at least”. I have ignored that too.

She has told me she has cheated on at least one boyfriend, but that was because he was an alcoholic (whether that excuses that is debatable).

I know I am being hypocritical spinning plates and wanting loyalty – I do meet women very easily and subscribe to an abundance mentality which tends to keep the plates very healthy - but I think I have pushed my luck too far this time.

My dilemma is what to do – my gut says she f*ked the guy, my logic is saying not necessarily. I will have to speak to her tommorow for sure. What do I do from here. I can't move in with someone I don't trust. I cannot even go out with someone I do not trust. Man, I hate emotional attachment.

 

[window]

what's good for the goose is good for the gander

 

[window]

You can only use the plate theory so far. At 7 months you're basically a cheater and your girl will sense this. The basis of plate theory is to prevent the man from becoming emotionally invested in the early stages of a relationship. Unfortunately it doesn't help the guy to develop the emotional maturity required when it is time to move forward.

 

[Truebrit]

I know - pushed it too far (warning signals a month ago but for some reason i stepped it up instead). Any hope of recovery though on this...

 

[Truebrit]

But (a big) part of me says she would do it anyway - regardless of how I acted. Lets be honest, what 23 year old is "good" when they go away anyway.....

 

[romangod]

I know I am being hypocritical spinning plates and wanting loyalty – I do meet women very easily and subscribe to an abundance mentality which tends to keep the plates very healthy - but I think I have pushed my luck too far this time.

My dilemma is what to do – my gut says she f*ked the guy, my logic is saying not necessarily. I will have to speak to her tommorow for sure. What do I do from here. I can't move in with someone I don't trust. I cannot even go out with someone I do not trust. Man, I hate emotional attachment.

My advice:


Don't move in with her. It's a disaster waiting to happen.


Cheers!

 

[Truebrit]

But do I bin her off? Is the evidence strong enough for that?

 

[window]

I wouldn't move in with her...just tell her you want some time apart to think about where the relationship is headed. No need to burn your bridges. Then have some fun with the other girls while you're thinking.

 

[decades]

If I had her number, I would call and tell her: You Go Girrrllll!!!!
Given your serial promiscuity, you're certainly not ready to live with and commit to a woman and she probably isn't ready either.

 

[jophil28]

You can only use the plate theory so far. At 7 months you're basically a cheater and your girl will sense this. The basis of plate theory is to prevent the man from becoming emotionally invested in the early stages of a relationship. Unfortunately it doesn't help the guy to develop the emotional maturity required when it is time to move forward.

That is exactly what I was about to write.
"Plate spinning" as a theory, is limited in its intent and its effectiveness. It is also NOT a license to cheat or date other women behind your G/fs back.
Your G/f is demonstating signs of waning interest and is probably doing flirty stuff with this other guy.

Here is a more valuable "theory" to apply to your life - I cannot claim copyright, but here it is ...." You reap what you sow."

 

[Colossus]

You cant have your cake and eat it too, man.

If you two are planning on moving in together exclusivity has been implied in some form or another, so you are no longer 'spinning plates'. You are seeing girls on the side.

It sounds like her interest is still there, but floundering. It is unlikely she would cheat on you right before moving in. Whatever the case may be you should not move in with her. This is disaster waiting to happen.

 

[DJDamage]

Listen to your gut. It knows something is wrong.

I am in the belief that she is cheating on you.

From my own experience, a sudden and slow behavioural change by a woman in your life that is turning questionable on every turn and spotty evidance that starts to accumulates and points you towards the direction of cheating is usually the correct assessment.

A woman who is loyal, trustworthy and who has a high interest in her man does not have an inconsistent and questionable behaviour.

It sounds to me like the two of you are playing each other's for a fool and moving in together would sure prove disasterous.

 

[Phyzzle]

Maybe your gut is telling you that she's drifting away, but I don't see the evidence. Is it possible that she's intentionally dropping hints about other guys to light a fire under your butt, and to make you close the gap before she moves in? Surely she suspects by now that you're trying to keep her at arms length. Particularly when you do things like this:

I ignored it until the next day and a couple of calls until saturday evening I answered briefly saying my battery was running out and would speak to her sunday.

I ignored all her calls today – she just sent me a text saying “this is really not like you please call me at least”. I have ignored that too.

That just seems unnecessary. But perhaps when you talk, you can lay down some, shall we say, expectations about how she is going to act after moving in. Neither of you should be "on my way back" from some place at 11, then rolling in drunk and rowdy 3 hours later.

Another thing . . . can't you drive across England in 8 hours? How in the Hell is her workplace cooking up a 3 day visit to a Theme Park? Do you mean one of those places with roller coasters? That's just such a weird trip.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

You're not practicing Plate Theory. You've got your one "sure thing" that you've OVERTLY declared to be exclusive (i.e. "girlfriend") and you're spinning other plates. Plate Theory rests on an, albeit covert, honesty in being non-exclusive. Once it's acknowledged that there's even an implied exclusivity you become the "cheater". You're being dishonest, but my guess is that her being an HB8-9 is what put you on the fence of being exclusive with her. You, consciously or not, recognize that exceptionally attractive women naturally have more options and exclusivity would ensure your "keeping" her.

I doubt too many guys here are going to have much sympathy for a 'Player', but understand why they perceive you as such. As a DJ, and a Man, honesty should always be a keystone of your character - even when that honesty means you have to drop an HB8-9 plate who insists on exclusivity. The girl you're having an issue with here isn't a Plate; you believe, and she believes she is your exclusive, monogamous girlfriend. Monogamy is a dubious notion for a 23 y.o. HB8-9 as it is, but this was your first mistake. Don't expect monogamy from a girl in her "party years." Your second mistake was to become a Player - I hate this term because it's really a feminized label for a guy who wont be exclusive, but in this instance I think it applies. When you even imply a commitment of monogamy and then continue non-exclusivity with other plates you ARE a Player because you're selling your girlfriend(s) a false billing for no other reason than you're afraid they'll drop off if you don't.

I would expect this girl has or will knock it out with another guy soon. She's going to go back to being another Plate or else NEXT you entirely. Again, I hope you'll learn from this. Your implied monogamy with her is the root of your problem. I'm a great proponent of Plate Theory, but when you do get to the point of monogamy, you need to say what you mean and mean what you say - just as you must when you are non-exclusive.

 

[Bible_Belt]

She called me at 1.30am, got a cab and came round drunk and wanting sex.

That part would indicate that she did not cheat, unless it was passionless robot sex.

All the guys at her office want to fvck her. She probably fantasizes about fvcking several of them. That is going to be the case for any attractive sexual woman. You have to not care. It is all fantasy, until you AFC it up by caring too much and it can then become reality.

I am leaving this minute to go out with my girlfriend on a boat. I have seen her in the bikini she is going to wear and I know that every guy near her will be ogling her...and I don't care. We think it is funny and laugh at those guys. She has told me that the amount a guy cares about other guys looking at her is inversely proportional to his own self-confidence.

 

[STR8UP]

I was watching Dane Cook last night, and he was on the subject of cheating. He started talking about how once a person cheats, they get all paranoid thinking they are being cheated on. Sounds like he was talking about you.

And I agree with Rollo. you aren't spinning plates, you are cheating on a de facto girlfriend. Don't expect to run around lest ye be ran around ON.

 

[mrRuckus]

I was watching Dane Cook last night, and he was on the subject of cheating. He started talking about how once a person cheats, they get all paranoid thinking they are being cheated on. Sounds like he was talking about you.

There was a guy on before Dane Cook last night (not the really fat dude) that had a whole thing about how if women were held to the same standards as men and it were socially acceptable to punch them right in the face (like a man would expect to be if he did and said the same things women say to men) then they wouldn't be so fvcking *****y and would watch their damn mouths and everyone would be happier. He said if he could live by the same standards as women he'd be the biggest d1ck ever and the one example he gave was him walking by a muscley dude and mocking him "ohhhh i work out a lot mehhhh" *knocks the protein shake out of his hands knowing the guy won't touch him*

She has told me that the amount a guy cares about other guys looking at her is inversely proportional to his own self-confidence.

This is a convenient way of saying "if you ever have a problem with anything i do it's because you lack confidence." I'm not saying it about this particular girl, I have no idea, but sometimes girls do cross the line about how they dress. If she's with you and her t!ts are practically hanging out then WTF? She's advertising and attention seeking right in front of you. It's disrespectful. And I am unconfident because I have issue with my gf going out looking whory? Latinoman if i remember correctly has a rule stating that the girl must not cause the level of respect for him from other men to drop. If your girlfriend goes around dressing slutty my level of respect for you would drop. I'm actually thinking of one guy on my softball team whose brand new wife dresses kinda poorly and my thoughts are "he can't get a classy girl?"

I mean just look at myspace. Every damn girl eventually puts up this full ass cleavage shot and ends up with 18 comments about it. They know what they're doing and it's inappropriate while single and far worse when with a boyfriend.

So in essence: "Don't dress or act like a *****: you're making me look bad to other men who I respect." If anything it's more confidence because i'm not going to stay with a girl who won't dress appropriately.


Oh and i doubt even if that were necessarily true it would be exactly inversely proportional.

 

[Truebrit]

Thanks for the comments...

Cheers for the responses guys - they are all pretty accurate. Im on a damage limitation exercise at the moment on this one anyway so fingers crossed - she is pretty f**ed off right now...

What Rollo said is true with regard to the exclusivity thing - howwever there is a bit of a catch 22 there - if she is 23 and in her party years then are you saying that she is not dateable due to a propensity to being unfaithfull? This is what i was getting at when I said "what 23 year old is good when they go out". Unfortunately in my experience not all girls are happy to be just plates (in fact all of the ones that I seem to meet) for very long at all - i would say a month maximum.

So I forefeit my own desires for a pretty unsafe proposal (since she is likely to cheat regardless) or have to give up what is essentially a high value commodity as she will want to be more than a plate. Higher value women (generally) use their looks to negotiate exclusivity first and foremost, way ahead of promiscuity. HB6-7s will take a lot more sh*t before they give up the ghost.

As I see it I can take the altruistic approach and be honest and loose out, or I can be immoral and keep what I have for longer. What's the best option because it looks to me like im f**ked either way.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Take this to the bank TRUEBRIT:

Women would rather share a successful man than be attached to a faithful loser.

I never invoke POOK lightly, but this is a Harsh Truth you need to accept. Understanding this is a foundation of Plate Theory.

,..if she is 23 and in her party years then are you saying that she is not dateable due to a propensity to being unfaithful?

As I stated above, your estimate of what constitutes fidelity is based on you entertaining the idea of an exclusive monogamy with her. If you are spinning plates and dating non-exclusively - and are above board and (covertly) honest about it - there is no "unfaithful". "Cheating" is a fun little term we learn in our adolescence so we can feel the rush of adrenaline when it happens to us latter, but what is it really? It's proposing that you'll adhere to a set of conditions, play by rules, a commitment, and not honoring that proposal with one's behaviors. The girl you describe is "datable" in a non-exclusive arrangement, but not an LTR arrangement.

This is what i was getting at when I said "what 23 year old is good when they go out". Unfortunately in my experience not all girls are happy to be just plates (in fact all of the ones that I seem to meet) for very long at all - i would say a month maximum.

Read that POOK quote again. The 23 y.o. HB8-9 would love for you to believe exactly what you're describing here - in fact your believing this is a social contrivance - but practice will make her a liar. In fact I'd go so far as to say that an HB6-7 would be less tolerant because the attention need for more attractive women is at a higher premium in order to maintain her ego. Most guys who read Plate Theory begin with an impression that no woman with a shred of self-respect would ever allow herself to knowingly be part of a guy's "harem". That's the first trepidation; most men are too fearful of losing their ONE mythological "quality woman" soulmate (who more often than not happens to be the most attractive woman he's capable of) that the idea of being non-exclusive is a foreign idea to them. That's the challenge of Plate Theory; being self-confident enough to allow a plate to drop in spite of ONEitis. This is exactly the predicament you find yourself in now.

What Plate Theory is not

My critics will often take a binary stance in their arguments with this idea stting that "they could never be with more than one woman at a time out of respect for her" or "so I should just lie to her and see other girls on the side?" To which I'd argue that these are feminized social conventions that attempt to thwart a man's options in order to establish women as the prime selectors in intersexual relations. If it can be conditioned into a boy/man to 'feel bad' about seeing more than one woman at a time, it only better serves the female-as-chooser dynamic. To be sure, women are naturally the filters for their own intimacies, but it is essentially men who do the sexual selection. These convention's latent purpose are designed to put selection of intimacy on a conditional basis that favors women, and as long as men will internalize this women will have a preconstructed social high-ground.

The way to circumvent this dynamic is brutal honesty and a committment to truthful, non-exclusivity with the plates you're spinning. If you keep your options above board and are honest with any one girl and yourself about your choice to be non-exclusive, you not only remove the teeth from this convention, but you also reinforce yourself as a Man with options (or at least perceived options). Further, critics will offer "well gee, if I did that with any woman she'd push off and dump me" to which I'll refute - not if you establish this honestly from the outset. Most guys who've swallowed the 'female power' convention are too afraid or to preconditioned to even consider this as an option for seeing women. Letting a woman know, or covertly perceive, that you wont be exclusive to her pushes your commodity level up and implies options and potential success she'll compete with other women to be associated with.

Plate Theory is also, most definitely not, a license to be indiscriminate with women. Just because you can spin a plate doesn't necessarily mean you should spin that plate. Some aren't worth spinning and a man with options should have no reservation about letting one go for a better one or two. In fact a man ought to be more discriminating in this regard since it affords him the best available from the largest selection.

So I forefeit my own desires for a pretty unsafe proposal (since she is likely to cheat regardless) or have to give up what is essentially a high value commodity as she will want to be more than a plate. Higher value women (generally) use their looks to negotiate exclusivity first and foremost, way ahead of promiscuity.

In 2 sentences you contradict yourself. You believe your "high value commodity" is prone to "cheating", yet will insist on negotiating exclusivity first and foremost ahead of promiscuity. You're conflicted on this. All Men want a slut, we just want her to be OUR slut.

As I see it I can take the altruistic approach and be honest and lose out, or I can be immoral and keep what I have for longer. What's the best option because it looks to me like im f**ked either way.

The decision's been made for you already. She's 23. She's attractive. She draws attention and enjoys it. Let her. The tighter you grasp the more she wants to get away from it. She's just into her party years and no amount of your authoritarian possessiveness is going to make her genuinely desire to be monogamous with you. And why would you want a girl you had to coerce into being your LTR? First, you're personally not ready for one as evidenced by your fence riding Plate Theory and monogamy. Second, you lack the wherewithal to really spin plates. You fail to see it's not a moral issue, it's not a "bang-as-many-chicks-as-possible" issue, it's about maintaining options and the confidence that comes from recognizing them.

Honestly I don't think you know yourself well enough to consider an LTR at this point. What's going to set the rest of the respondents on fire is your presumption to "have your cake and eat it too", but this is the result of your lack of understanding both yourself and an inability to reconcile your want for monogamy (and why you want it) as well as variety. If you personally can't be faithful then don't. You're not a bad person for not wanting exclusivity - you are when you're not honest, and that honesty has to begin with being honest with yourself.

Stop beating yourself up over trying to get this ONEitis back. Let her go and if she comes back at least it will be because she genuinely wants to; not because you went so hypocritical AFC guilt-shame on her. I have no doubt she's a hot piece of ass, but that's just going to be the sting to remind yourself of what you're learning here.

 

[NewMan]

The thing is, should she move in with you and you both play at 'Happy house' - you'll be very unhappy and wondering wha the fvck you did in a couple of weeks tops.

There's a reason why you've been fvcking around, and, the thought that this hot piece of a## could suddenly not be yours, is playing on your mind.

At times like these, you need to think clearly, and figure out why, in the first place, your cheating on her. Deep down, you know this isn't going to last.

Someone already said this, but because your cheating, your automatic assumption is that she is. I think the evidence thus far is that she isn't. She's got a new job and the guys are eyeing this new piece of meat.

Your acting like you own and bought this car, but you haven't - your leasing right now.