Dumb fight with GF

[mikeraw]

So I had a pretty good Thanksgiving weekend, except for yesterday, Sunday.

I woke up at my friend's house in Austin next to my GF. She woke up extra friendly, I mean "BJ instead of coffee" friendly, which we finished off with a quick romp and then we started to get dressed to go back to Houston (where we live, SEPARATELY). While we were getting dressed, we were being silly and I asked for a kiss and she said "Not until you say you're a feminist" That cracked me up, so I forcefully kissed her a few times, which whatever... but she kept it up, trying to get me to SAY that I'm a feminist. I told her she didn't even know the meaning of the word, we googled it but I typed in feminazi instead, hehehe... this went on for a few minutes, but then my patience wore thin and I started actually arguing with her...

I went off and proceeded to hit her with the sledgehammer of truth and cited about a dozen examples of how men are better than women and how the laws favor women over men, topping it off with the latest headline grabber, the Tiger Woods situation. I told her that both the laws and public opinion are going to exonera that Nordic wife of his and that the alternative was a half-billion dollar divorce. She stayed quiet and thinking that we were done arguing, I started loading things into my car. Then, I came back to try to hug her and kiss her and she threatened, "Don't touch me, DON'T TOUCH ME!" and gestured as if to slap me.

That pissed me off and I just told her to get in the car and we drove off to Houston. We had a silent breakfast in one of the many hippy cafes in Austin. We drove all the way to Houston in silence (I was blasting some obscure Bach cuz I know she hates classical music and I love it). We stopped for gas at a gas station and she bought me some almonds and a bottle of water. I thought that things were starting to get better. Then, about 30 mins outside of Houston, she asks if I'm mad at her and I told her that she reacted like a little kid, almost hitting me and not keeping her composure. She said that I basically told her that women are worthless and that why the fark was she dating a woman hater, etc...

More silence... wanting to put it all behind us, I put my hand on her leg and she moved it away (gently, but moved it away, nonetheless). More silence until we got to her house. She got her things and I just pulled away. Silence, not even a good bye. She called me around 10:30 PM but I was out with friends and didn't want to put up with drama, so I declined the call.

Thing is, I spin plates on the side... pretty hot chicks, actually. And I have 2 steady booty calls, so sex is not an issue. But I like this chick because of her family values and her freakiness in bed while appearing like an angel in public. She posted bail for me once around 2 AM and she lent me $8K to pay my lawyer (long story, not as bad as it sounds, but yes, she tells me she likes my "bad-boy" rap, now). Her parents adore me and I always spend the night at their house when I'm over. Hell, I'm even doing a little business on the side with her dad, but that's neither here nor there.

Anyways, since I like this chick and have developed feelings for her (7+ months of dating), I wrote her a quick one-liner today apologizing for not answering her call last nite to put our spat behind us. She replied saying that she doesn't agree with me and that we'll talk after work (2 hours from now).

Now, when we talk, I will not apologize for my views... and that's pretty much it. Do you guys have any other input that I can use to come out on top? I mean, even though I have my opinions, I don't disrespect her... never have. I was thinking of approaching it from that angle. What do you guys think?

Oh, by the way... she's half-Ukranian half-Venezuelan... not a genetic celebrity, but a solid 8... slim body, light skin, long light brown hair, green eyes, the works. That's ANOTHER reason why I want to keep her around.

Thanks for any ideas!

 

[Tazman]

Part of me says you asked for this type of reaction out of her because you honestly can't have a serious discussion about these types of things with women. They WILL not see it the way we do and no amount of reasoning or explanation will sway them. It's a pointless argument to have with a woman.

On the other hand, you did absolutely nothing wrong. Your opinion is your opinion, if she wants to label you as a woman hater, so be it. She's the one that wouldn't let it go, acting childish and sulking. You like her, but are you also willing to hand her your balls on a platter too?

Anyways, since I like this chick and have developed feelings for her (7+ months of dating), I wrote her a quick one-liner today apologizing for not answering her call last nite to put our spat behind us. She replied saying that she doesn't agree with me and that we'll talk after work (2 hours from now).

You should have never apologized. You need to stand your ground on this because you didn't do anything wrong. So what you didn't answer her call, she was being a *****. You are already in the process of losing this girls respect because her behavior is breaking you down just as she intends it too. You're putting her on a pedestal because you want to have sex with her and the frame is now tilting in her direction. She knows this because you're the one trying to make amends while she treats you like a little boy who got caught cursing in church.

 

[mikeraw]

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have argued nor apologized for anything... I'm definitely NOT apologizing for my opinions, though. So what's my best approach here?

 

[KontrollerX]

The best approach with women is to not give in to their power plays which her demand for you to say you were a feminist was.

Its a small way of breaking you down and getting control of you when a woman really presses an issue like she did with that.

See...had she dropped the subject immediately after the first few times you refused to say it and just giggled it off then she really was just being silly and teasing you but oh no...this was sh!t test time to see exactly what you were made of as a man.

Would he give in and be beta and weak she thought or will he not take sh!t from me and hold his ground and maintain his own reality?

Well you passed the sh!t test with flying colors.

The passive aggressive sulking on her part was payback for you passing the test, payback which you could of avoided if you both didn't need to travel somewhere at the time as after passing the test if you had a different non traveling situation going you could've just left and went back to your place or whatever and let her get over it in her own time.

You fvcked up by apologizing for not calling her...but thats a minor thing which shouldn't effect your having passed her major sh!t test...just remember not to apologize for missing a phone call in this kind of situation next time.

Why you might wonder?

Well...this whole fight was her fault...and you can't give women one inch of reaction/apology what have you when it is they who start a fight via sh!t test or whatever reason they start a fight...you cannot do this because women do not learn from direct communication...they learn covertly from what people don't say...they learn from how people react to their behavior...waiting for her to make the call and apologize to you...that waiting for her to make the move indicates to her that SHE fvcked up and it is HER mess to fix.

You gave her the frame with the beta phone call apology and then she made the command "WE will talk about this later" taking your natural leadership role as the man from you.

Still this can be smoothly transitioned back in your favor so long as you hold your ground but yeah you could've avoided giving her the frame at all is what I'm saying.

Also I absolutely agree with Tazman that I think you were in a way trying to connect with your girl on a deeper level by hoping you could explain the perils of feminism to her and have her understand your point of view and sympathize with you over it, sympathize with the raw deal men get from it...to be able to share your true feelings about many issues is the road to deeper intimacy but things like this...unless you luck out and find a needle in the haystack of a cool chick like our dear forum mother Penkitten...women like this in our degenerated society are rarer to find than the rarest diamond and its simply better not to risk the peace of either your relationship or fvck buddy scenario by expressing your TOTAL feelings on EVERYTHING to a chick.

So basically what I'm saying here is its better for you to just go along to get along in this society...not to the point of pretending to exchange your real worldview for her's but what I'm saying is just structure what you say to chicks in such a way as to best keep the peace via reading them and their particular character the best you can fully judging for yourself what information you believe they can and cannot handle. You'll save yourself a lot of pain that way as well hassles.

Alternatively you could take the "I will not settle" road and spend the rest of your life searching for a Penkitten type of chick who you really could share everything you are thinking with her and have her be cool with it and not think anything less of you but again the odds of finding such a chick in this society are about as good as winning the lottery or having a shot at becoming the next president.

 

[romangod]

I would nicely say to her:

"I'm sorry, hon. I am a feminist....... now come over and suck my d!ck!"



Cheers!

 

[sodbuster]

Ask her if she really knows what feminists stand for and believe. When you explain that they believe that men are worthless or less than a woman and you won't stand for being called worthless. AND you Won't be pressured into calling yourself a feminist.

 

[window]

You sound like a tosser and you're cheating on her also. She'll work you out over time.

 

[jophil28]

... we were being silly and I asked for a kiss and she said "Not until you say you're a feminist"

THis was an ambush and you walked right into it.

This is what I would have done -

She says, " ,..no kiss until you say that you are a feminist.."

You, " I don't want to kiss you THAT badly. I pass on the kiss.." and you WALK AWAY without another word.

She will be squarking in the background as you remove yourself from the line of fire and you also take the 'frame' away with you .

Simple.

 

[Hullothere]

this would have been a perfect situation to KEEP HER IN YOUR FRAME. I would have said something ridiculous like you are a 'doginazi'. You cant believe that dogs don't have the right to vote yet, what is this world coming too?

 

[jonwon]

“so I forcefully kissed her a few times”


Wrong move, this is chumpville, never pander to your women this way. Do not force yourself to kiss her like a pleading beta boy looking for validity. Be a man and stand by your convictions, what your doing is simply seeking approval for your bolloc* (i.e your starting to feel the pair between your legs) discovery.

“Then, I came back to try to hug her and kiss her and she threatened, "Don't touch me, DON'T TOUCH ME!" and gestured as if to slap me”.

Again what you have done is set the BETA CHUMP detector on overdrive, no wonder she acted like this. You cant even be concurrent with your values and beliefs, you state one thing then seek approval in trying not to upset your master.

Jesus H Christ kid, get some balls.

What you said is not that much of a big deal, I know for definate she has esculated the situation because simply, you’re a beta seeking approval, hence she is simply doing what women do unconsciously when they confront such limp wristed actions: They give you more shi*.

All is not lost though:

“(I was blasting some obscure Bach cuz I know she hates classical music and I love it)”

Good move.

“she asks if I'm mad at her and I told her that she reacted like a little kid”

Again good move.

“I put my hand on her leg and she moved it away”

But you can’t help falling back into BETA mode can you. Why put your hand on her leg? If a dog came into your front door and sha* on your carpet, you wouldn’t feed it a steak would you?

Yes simply stand up for what you believe in, if she doesn’t agree, tell her she can discuss it like an adult - but the one who is getting emotionally retarded here is you.

Stop pandering to her when she pouts her lips.

Let her sulk for a bit, sit in silence wait until she says something then say " I see have you stopped sulking now "!

You should have stuck with the acting like a kid line and not rewarded her until she stopped sulking, like a bratty kid.

In fact next time just take her home and say "Look this is getting blown out of proportion, I think i'm going to head out with the lads, i'll drop you off at home, you can calm down then".

All women are like this ALL OF THEM! Do not turn into a beta chump trying to console her or reward her when she is acting like a 4 year old brat, treat her as such. Let her have her moment, I guarantee 100% she will be ringing you up and chasing you, if you keep the BETA cra* up, she will just give you more shi*.

Stop it dead, drop her off if you have to, go out alone or take the evening off, let her calm her emotions down, but do not and I repeat do NOT pander to her and try to force yourself to seek validation through trying to force kiss her or hold her like some BETA chump seeking approval, almost like some leech who is clinging onto the girl for fear of loss, because he happened to say the wrong thing to her.

She will get over it, but not if you reward her actions.

I have these conversations with my GF all the time, I tell her men make everything, I give her alot of **** on the subject. If she get's anal, I tell her to deal with it, then I show her examples:

I.e i'll be walking down the street with her and i'll point to any fuc*ing thing and tell her "A man made that".

She finds it cute and annoying, but still if she asked me to be a feminist (with all seriousness), i'd laugh in her face and say "you know where the front door is". If she was doing it for a bit of playful banter, I'd tell her I was one like an above poster said and ask her to suc* my **** (good answer that one).

You should be able to have these conversations with the girl your dating, DAM women do it all the time, flooding us men with shi* from OPRAH and keeping the matrix going, dont be ashamed to bombard her with facts and truth, why lie to yourself? If she get's anal, eventually she will get over it, and tell her "she better get used to it".

What you afraid of?

Just dont be a zeolot! I.e stand by your belief's but dont preach them like it's gospal, if anything most women simply care about the next pair of shoes and a new handbag!

Dont believe me, try bring up the current news, i.e one big news piece currently is climategate - Try to discuss that with a girl, then ask her what handbag she likes for christmas - that's the difference between a 2min convo and a 25minute one.

Stand by what you believe but these conversations are best for your male friends, women even if they cared have been proven to be fickle by nature. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1229086/Females-fickle-nature-say-researchers.html

 

[squirrels]

"If me and Buster were hanging off a cliff and you could only save one of us..."

Say you're a feminist? There's no emoticon in the pantheon of emoticons that can express my "WTF" expression at this statement.

I can't make sh!t's-worth of sense of this situation. You shouldn't have even let yourself walk into it. I'm with Jophil.

 

[Warrior74]

I started actually arguing with her...

I went off and proceeded to hit her with the sledgehammer of truth and cited about a dozen examples of how men are better than women and how the laws favor women over men, topping it off with the latest headline grabber, the Tiger Woods situation. I told her that both the laws and public opinion are going to exonera that Nordic wife of his and that the alternative was a half-billion dollar divorce.

I'm not trying to beat up on you, but ya...when you actually engaged in the argument you lost..

Also, if you express any pro man views these days you are labeled a woman hater.

 

[jophil28]

This strory is a good example of how women set traps for men and create drama for it's own sake.
Note how she did it after sex - this has happened to me a few times. I am guessing that they plan to ambush you when they think that you are at you most relaxed and therefore 'off guard'....
Never underestimate a woman's love of power games and the associated planning.

 

[jophil28]

This strory is a good example of how women set traps for men and create drama for it's own sake, many times to challenge you for frame ownership.

Note how she did it after sex - this has happened to me a few times. I am guessing that they plan to ambush you when they think that you are at you most relaxed and therefore 'off guard'....it sounds whack, but that is what she did.

Never underestimate a woman's love of mindgames.

MIke - there was NO benefit to you or your relationship by 'engaging' her in the way that you did. She got what she wanted - drama and a flood of brain chemicals and adrenaline.

You lost a lot of ground by doing and saying what you did, and overall your relationship suffered.

 

[mikeraw]

Hmmm... though I appreciate the input, it's not as bad as some of you are interpreting this.

I didn't BEG for forgiveness at any point, in fact, I was carefully thinking about how to act or speak for a while before actually doing anything... keep in mind there was a 2 hour car trip in which I thought about what I'd do and say... Yeah, my mind mostly went blank, but I resorted to silence the entire time, which was what the mood called for anyways... car trip, post fight, my favorite music playing.

The kiss part was not as bad it sounds. I did it like you do it to a child, not seriously, almost as a joke... and by forcing myself on her I accomplished two things:

1. Since I'm phsycially bigger, it reminded her of her vulnerability

2. The "violence" of the hug and shake is a turn on for her... she has told me in the past that she likes it when I just pull her towards me and toss her around almost like a rag doll. I quickly walked away after that... in a great mood... I think she got mad cuz I didn't take her seriously. In fact, a lot of chicks that I date complain that I dont take anything seriously. B*tches.

The hand on the leg thing was just a way to try to defuse the situation after the second outburst, 2 hours after the initial argument. It was chumpy, I knew it, but whatever... I can always say I tried to restore normality and she refused.

On my way to Austin the previous day, we had a discussion about global warming and I handed her ass with facts (Earth having been a completely-frozen iceball at one point, civilizations flourishingduring periods of warmth, Medieval times were warmer than today despite the lack of the usual culprits, ice sheets getting thicker in Greenland, Alaska's coldest summer 2008, etc...) She acknowledged most of these things and I then proceeded to debunk other hippie claims such as overpopulation, deforestation, waste and consumption, etc... It was a very educated conversation and all ended well... maybe because of this, I thought in the back of my head that I could nip it at the bud when she brought feminism up. Kinda backfired there, I know...

I should've done the romangod suggestion... She might have even gone for it as that's the kind of thing I do out of nowhere with her.

sodbuster thing, I'm not going to try to argue about the issue any longer, but if it starts going in that direction, I can always say that...

window, you White Knight... shhhh...

 

[Tazman]

It may not be bad in the grand scheme of things, but if you minimize what happened you ignore important details about how the future of this relationship could develop. Women don't forget these things, it becomes "ammunition".

In a nutshell, she got pissed over you expressing an opinion and instead of standing your ground all the way through, you became apologetic. You didn't beg or grovel, but that isn't necessary, that would simply have been overboard.

It was her job to get over it and/or defuse the situation because you did nothing wrong. It may seem insignificant now, but rest assured this will be filed in the back of her head. You didn't hold her responsible for her own bad behavior.

 

[mikeraw]

Yeah I read that the other day. And about the ammunition, I know she'll always be stockpiling it. I'm not gonna argue cuz I post here precisely to be critiqued and to request advice, so at what point did I fvck up more? The leg thing? The apologizing for not having answered?

Oh, and the kiss request was to a certain extent, a flexing of my muscles. I didn't ASK for a kiss, I TOLD her to give me a kiss: "Dame un beso" And it was done with a playful authorative voice. I may have even grunted and shoved while o asked. I dunno, we were still in bed, ass naked, being silly.

We still haven't talked about this to clear the air cuz I went out last night but maybe tonite I'll answer her calls.

 

[jonwon]

Yeah I read that the other day. And about the ammunition, I know she'll always be stockpiling it. I'm not gonna argue cuz I post here precisely to be critiqued and to request advice, so at what point did I fvck up more? The leg thing? The apologizing for not having answered?

Oh, and the kiss request was to a certain extent, a flexing of my muscles. I didn't ASK for a kiss, I TOLD her to give me a kiss: "Dame un beso" And it was done with a playful authorative voice. I may have even grunted and shoved while o asked. I dunno, we were still in bed, ass naked, being silly.

We still haven't talked about this to clear the air cuz I went out last night but maybe tonite I'll answer her calls.

The biggest problem was your backslide into AFC beta mode.

The kiss thing, was pandering for attention no matter how you swing it, do not force your girl to kiss you, on the contrary this should be flipped the over way around, there is nothing worse than seeing a guy force his GF to have a kiss and move his face closer to hers whilst she pulls back and baits him, you can see the look in her eyes, that shows her respect for the guy is hitting the floor.

I don’t care if you grabbed hold of her hair and wrestled her to the floor, in this context you had a disagreement, then you tried to kiss her, this is a sure sign your concerned about her reaction and didn’t want to upset her, so you tried to force a kiss from her, which simply awarded her the power in that subconsciously she realized that your pandering to her because you didn’t agree with something she said- - Well get this: You didn’t agree with something she said, she wasn’t trying to console you with a kiss, she was annoyed, instead you awarded her power like a beta chump.

Do not do it, if anything give her the space, go away, smoke a fag, but do not pander to her, plead to her or beg for approval because you did not agree with her, and forcing to kiss her in the moment of an argument was weak game, a beta slide if you will.

Putting your hand on her leg is the exact same thing, trying to diffuse the situation, trying to defuse the situation! you didn’t difuse the situation this is not how women work, you need to understand that, what you did is lower your power and award her more power, power to give you more shi* in future, because she is aware, there is a certain point that is uncomfortable for you and if she pushes to that point, you’ll try to diffuse the situation by force kissing her, force hugging her or putting a consoling hand on her leg.

The middle ground is to let her sulk and if she doesn’t stop to drop her off and do your own thing, rather than get sucked into the drama, don’t reward her by trying to get intimate when she is sulking and in a mood with you.

I’ve seen this shi* pan out so many times. I shake my head whilst the girl morphs into the person who wears the pants, whilst the beta slips lower the guys power, to such a point he is scared to say anything out of the ordinary incase he upset the biatch in his life.

The disagreement was a blip, but the beta slide was the main thing here imo, not only did you force kiss her, you compounded this by trying to force hug her, then trying to put a reassuring hand on her leg, then you state you did it in a manly way? Listen, don’t make excuses for it, just make an effort to notice it and spot it and zen master through it, much like the rossy blog states - Even if I could forgive the force kiss slide, I could not ignore the other things done from a similar belief system.

Eventually, you’ll ideally develop where you won’t be sucked into her drama, but if you are, the worst thing you can possibly do is to slide into beta mode and you did it a good few times, so what if you did it with your shirt ripped open, grease smears over your toned body and your hair ruffled, when you slide into beta mode, you better be prepared for your girls interest to dip, whilst the level of shi* she is flinging your way is ramped up to overdrive.

You had the ability to stop this argument at the brat state, calling her a kid, but then you slid into beta mode and stuck an hand on her lap, you should have milked the fuc*er for all it was worth and had her sucking down your man juice to make it up to you.

People may think I am nitpicking, but I am not, if this is a regular occurance, and i suspect it is, this girl is going to ramp up the shi* tests, instead of being a ***** cat in your lap. I suspect the feminist line was a result of her pushing for shi* tests and you failing them, hence her level of shi* flinging and emotional drama games is being ramped up, because you lack the skills and the knowledge to see that shi* like rossy states and bomb through it.

At least be aware of it, dont make excuses for it FFS. Just do better next time.

The reason your replying to the kiss thing, is because it has hit a nerve with you, you know I am right in this situation but you dont want to acknowledge it, and I suspect the reason being is that this girl is making you slide into beta mode now and again (as rossy states again) due to some power she has and she is full aware of that fact. What ever it is, trying to resolve it by knowing this girl is replacable and there is nothing worse than having a girl giving you shi* whislt trying to console her for her bratty fuc*ing actions - You should be thinking about spanking her for getting out of line.

If anything if you want to slip into beta mode, turn it into a joke if your not comfortable stepping into ars*hole mode, say things like "that comment deserves a slap" - Then slap her ars* whilst she is walking out the door or some ****, but do not force yourself to be intimate just to console the argument. Some women actually want an argument a full blown fuc*ing raw power argument and they want to be beat down (not pyhsically of course), what are you going to do when you have a real disagreement?

For resolution, do not get sucked back into the drama, simply change the subject, if she probes, just state "i'm bored of that subject now, let's talk about you wearing that outfit you bought, you know the sexy one I liked the look of"

Seriously just flip that shi* around, if you dont like a conversation with a girl and it's going to result in unneccassary drama, just flip the conversation and to me there is nothing better then flipping it to something about her, and sex! That usually results in a conversation that is far more interesting to her, but if you flip it around to the weather, she will go back on point - Flip it to something actually interesting.

Dont be concerned about speaking to her, this is your reality and she is a guest in it, do not forget that!

 

[TheAsianLover]

She's tested you in the past, and you obviously failed.

Now she gave you a big test, an blatant disrespect for your manhood by trying to get you to say you are a feminist.

You need to check b*tches ASAP when they test you.

 

[Veridin]

Another relationship damaged by feminism. And the feminist professors at the university cheer every time this happens. Like feminist Andrea Dworkin said when confronted with stats showing exploding divorce rates after the rise of feminism: it was "a good start."

She said that I basically told her that women are worthless and that why the fark was she dating a woman hater, etc...

Ah, the standard reply when you approach a feminist with facts. She ignores them and instead slaps you with a label. Strawman arguments are what feminists build their attack on. When they can't just lower your grades, get you socially ostrasized at work, ban you from a forum, or use influence to shut you up in some other way.

A feminist will never let a debate center around facts. They will ALWAYS use ad hominem attacks. Always make it personal. Partly because this is the female psyche: it is either personal to them or it is nothing. Men are used to the abstract, but women deal with people. But partly also because personal attacks are more efficient than facts.

I dated a girl who was influenced by feminists in the classroom. She had no intellectual foundation to stand on from before college, so she drank it all up. I simply told her that she was not allowed to use words like "patriarchal" against me when she tried it.

With increasing technology, we got more household appliances that made household work easier and not a full-time job anymore. Women would have moved into the workplace because of this, but without feminism it would have been a different process. It wouldn't have been done with antagonism and hostile theories about "patriarchal" men holding them down. It would have been done with the knowledge that men do handle stressful management positions better, and so it is only natural that most high-level managers are men. It would have been done with awareness that women have a strong instinct to care for children, and there is nothing wrong with staying home with your kids, even if it makes your office career less shiny. It would have been done with the knowledge that children raised by their mothers feel more secure, mature faster, and do much better in school and commit fewer crimes, etcetera.

Women would have moved out into the workplace without feminism. But they wouldn't have hated the thought of being natural mothers. And everyone would have been better off - men, women and children. And we wouldn't have had falling birth rates in every Western country afflicted by feminism. What kind of belief is it, that kills off a country's birth rates? Talk about anti-nature. No stronger indictment has ever hit a belief system.