Does being "Don Juan" mean being alone??

[squirrels]

When I first found the "community", I embraced it as freedom from the restrictions of society. Finally, I had found the keys that liberated me from the common social stigma of male-female relationships. NO woman was out of reach. EVERY woman could be seduced if I simply spun up her emotions in the right way.

But as time went on, it became a very lonely place to be. Sure, I could go and have sex with a pretty girl, but for a long time I thought sex WAS the greatest indicator of a woman's affection. Like, if she loved you in a carnal way, it mean that you were somehow "special" in her life, even if you weren't the so-called "one".

But as I look at this whole philosophy, I realize that knowing "any woman can be gamed" is a double-edged sword. It's fun when I'm the guy gaming them, but once I have them, I feel like I'm constantly waiting for the next guy to game them away from me.

If you think about it, there's always someone better than you. Someone with more game, someone with better looks, or more money, or a better sense of humor, or more fun to be around...and there's always someone with "more game" than you, waiting to snatch your girl.

While this whole lifestyle is liberating from a sexual point of view, when it comes to dating and pair-bonding, the "community" serves as a constant reminder to me that women are faithless and are easily swayed when their emotions get involved.

As a result, I am alone. Any woman I connect with, I can't help but wonder when she'll be snatched away by the next guy. It's completely destroyed my desire to associate with them. I know now when I seduce a woman, when she says all those things that she wants to be with me or acts like she really likes me, I know she only likes me until the next PUA or DJ comes along and starts spitting game. Then I become the "ball and chain" and am quick to be set aside.

Even if not, you can't be around her all the time. The people she works with, her friends' friends, her friends' SO's friends...at any time "your" woman can be gamed by someone else who has equal right to her. You're old news, then.

And I don't blame them for that...it's the way of the world I suppose...but I don't like it either.

Despite all the women in the world, does being "Don Juan" mean a solitary life, devoid of companionship and steeped in paranoia that your friends and your lovers will be snatched away from you by the "next man"?

 

[Eddie417]

Despite all the women in the world, does being "Don Juan" mean a solitary life, devoid of companionship and steeped in paranoia that your friends and your lovers will be snatched away from you by the "next man"?

I'd say that being Don Juan, as defined by the culture on this board, means not worrying about these types of things because you're secure in yourself and who you are, and knowing what you want. Ultimately that would make you MORE likely to end up in a quality LTR.

 

[disfunktional]

Can ANY woman be gamed though really? What about the one's who are with DJ's? In my opinion I don't think they can. They will hold on to a DJ because they know he is a good catch.

I think being a DJ should mean you can get quality women who want to hold on to you, and wont shag someone behind your back just because he "gamed" them. I don't know of any quality women who are that stupid, and if you were with someone who was that stupid, she wasn't worth it in the first place so best to move on and cut her out of your life.

df

 

[reset]

squirrels, not to be harsh, but do you REALLY BELIEVE any of that crap you just wrote? Could you be any MORE down on yourself?

I don't have all the answers... but I know you can't go anywhere close to where you want to be with that victim mentality.

 

[John-467]

The Back Door

squirrels, you said:

"Any woman I connect with, I can't help but wonder when she'll be snatched away by the next guy..........Despite all the women in the world, does being "Don Juan" mean a solitary life, devoid of companionship and steeped in paranoia that your friends and your lovers will be snatched away from you by the "next man?"

Well I'm not going to bullshyt with you, a LOT of the "advanced Player's" frustrations with women is that NOW that you KNOW how to get laid and win their "love," you also realize that ANOTHER guy could EASILY do the same thing and DO IT BETTER.

See that door >>>>>>> (The Back Door)

That door NEVER closes, it's ALWAYS open, at anytime no matter what the chick could walk right out that door and guess what? There's not a god damn thing you can do about it.

BUT

This "truth" does a couple of things to you:

1.) It makes you SEE why being a Nice guy and investing in MARRIAGE and LTRS and trying to locate the supposed God-sent "The One" can be a waste of time...because at the end of the day, Monday ur chick could be right there and on Tuesday you are on Divorce Court.

2.) This should FREE YOU.....to now HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY THAT WOMEN HAVE.

Look at that door again >>>>>>>>> (The Back Door)

You see, YOU can walk out that door at anytime TOO, so how about this?

The scary feeling you feel right now, let's turn that around? Let's let the CHICK feel this everytime they come in contact with YOU.

You see, alot of the way you feel right now is b/c you see a LOT OF CHICKS enjoying life, having fun, etc, etc......while you probably aren't have so much fun ORRR are looking to get "serious" in a relationship or someting.

So lemme make a suggestion,

Don't stop partying and don't stop having fun, and don't stop PUTTING IT ON THEM, which is the reason they STUCK with you in the first place.

Keep the pvssy coming, keep the numbers coming....keep enjoying life and keep having FUN...F-U-N.

At the end of the day, you're going to die and be non-existent, all of the vows and "forever bullshyt" and "the one" bullshyt will NOT matter, alllll that will matter is the memories of the GOOD TIMES, that's it. So INSTEAD my friend of trying to "get serious" REMAIN like your fellow women and KEEP HAVING FUN.

** John goes and pisses out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (The Back Door)

 

[MR_PERFECT]

Can ANY woman be gamed though really? What about the one's who are with DJ's? In my opinion I don't think they can. They will hold on to a DJ because they know he is a good catch.

I think being a DJ should mean you can get quality women who want to hold on to you, and wont shag someone behind your back just because he "gamed" them. I don't know of any quality women who are that stupid, and if you were with someone who was that stupid, she wasn't worth it in the first place so best to move on and cut her out of your life.

df

The reason you read a lot about creating a good life style and building confidence: Being a DJ cannot be maintained long term, it has to be a part of you, which is an extremely small percentage of men. In here, we learn how to cope and how to build facades to better deal with situations with women, but sooner or later the real you will be revealed. Only a DJ should feel truly secure.

To me the biggest problem is that I could eventually get to that place where at all times I'm the perfect DJ, but like everyone else, it will take work... a lot of work. When I get to that point, I may be cynical, it would make sense. I will be at the point where I could easily take almost any man's woman, which will make me realize that any wrong move on my part and my woman could fall for another DJ. But say my game is so strong that another man can't take my woman, would I begin to resent her because of all the time and effort it took for me to get to this point, knowing the lesser version of me wouldn't measure up? Even when we say women aren't the prize, they still are.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...While this whole lifestyle is liberating from a sexual point of view, when it comes to dating and pair-bonding, the "community" serves as a constant reminder to me that women are faithless and are easily swayed when their emotions get involved.

As a result, I am alone. Any woman I connect with, I can't help but wonder when she'll be snatched away by the next guy. It's completely destroyed my desire to associate with them. I know now when I seduce a woman, when she says all those things that she wants to be with me or acts like she really likes me, I know she only likes me until the next PUA or DJ comes along and starts spitting game. Then I become the "ball and chain" and am quick to be set aside.

Even if not, you can't be around her all the time. The people she works with, her friends' friends, her friends' SO's friends...at any time "your" woman can be gamed by someone else who has equal right to her. You're old news, then.

Squirrels, don't think I'm ragging on you because I'm not. I just think that you're kinda drifting off the path of understanding DJing is about. You've got it conceptually but you are missing a couple of pieces that ties the entire concept together.

A few things to understand:

1. You do not need to engage women who seem faithless who are easily swayed when their emotions get involved. When you really think about it, typical guys act the same way so it's not based on sex. Given that, you have the ability to recognize and disengage from women who don't meet the standards which you set. It may seem that all women fall into that category but realistically, could that actually be true?
2. As for being alone, that's still a choice by you. It shouldn't necessarily be considered a bad thing that this could be because you have grown selective in order to avoid women described in the previous point.
3. Feeling that any woman you engage will be snatched up by some other guys says two things:
   • You're questioning the concept of a couple enjoying one another enough to focus their energy on just one person and rebuffing external advances
   • That you yourself have not formally set the goal of securing a woman to your liking for something long term

With each of these things there is no definition of a goal other than the perpetual game of catch and release. If this is what you define as being a DJ fine, but don't complain that it's not what you want. If you want something different, define it and then go for it.
​

You've heard that the concept of being a DJ is a lifestyle which isn't necessarily focused around just chasing women. Since it's an intrinsic thing, you can choose how to emote the characteristics into a system which works for you. It's your personal system and not one that every woman is willing to engage in; but that's OK, you don't have to engage every woman, do you?

In a nutshell, a way to work with these issues include:

1. Expanding your scope of the definition of a DJ
2. Define what you want to achieve as a DJ
3. Become authentic in your actions, whatever you do should have a purpose or alignment to the goals you'd like to achieve
4. Be confident in your abilities especially the one that you learn and improve
5. The biggest challenge you have to overcome is any self induced limiting beliefs
6. There is no reality, only perception

 

[frivolousz21]

make sure your not being a boring bland pua.

you can be a confident man and still be yourself.

I think when guys hide themselves they lose...for instance....2 nights ago..it was 12am..and Star Trek the next generation was on re-runs....

my friends were bringing some girls over...to get with them....me and one of my boys were watchign the show..this guy is pretty good with the ladies..the other guys begged me to turn off star trek...I said I dont give a ****...Im 25 years old...he is 28...im not acting like wanna be to impress some lady.

well the women came over and one of them said she loved watching star trek with her dad growing up.

some of these guys forget that cool is how your carry yourself.

 

[ketostix]

There is something to what squirells is saying. Sometimes the methods that will seduce a woman quickly, aren't always the same methods needed to keep her around. I've had several women that I've closed on day 1 and to never see them again or it was a very short term fling and the girl gave me retro-active anti-slut defense (girls: all we do is just end up having sex..no dates etc). This sort of similar to Rollo's statement of the difference between women's short and long-term mating strategy. And I get confused with being a "provider" by some people here.

Part of the issue is most of these women just simply aren't LTR material, so if you seduced them you got about all that you were going to get useful from them. As Francisco says frequently you need to qualify girls.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Understand that methodology, technique, NLP, PUA skills, any and all the information in the seduction community, are all tools in your DJ tool box, they are NOT ends unto themselves. Even Mystery falls apart like a high school boy looking for a prom date when it comes to maintaining an LTR. I hate to be the one to point this out, but, with a few notable exceptions, most PUAs are some of the worst AFCs because they've never made the necessary mental transition in maturity to become a DJ (i.e. a Positively Masculine Man). After reading The Game and getting into the "community", IMHO, most PUAs are all about method and technique at the cost of really understanding the underpinnings of why they work and why they inevitably revert back to their root AFCness when they get to the point of an LTR.

All you have to do is read about the absolute chaos that Katya wreaks in Mystery's life in The Game for a perfect illustration of this. The guy's been institutionalized and suicidal more than once in his life and almost universally because he's unable to mature in his understanding of the root cause of being an AFC. The guy can flawlessly game women thanks to a mastery of well developed skills, but he self-destructs into a psychologic mess when he progresses into an LTR.

I don't have much respect for Ross Jefferies either, but he got it right when he said teaching PUA skills was like giving dynamite to children. It's like giving someone a magic key to any car they want to drive, but it dosn't give them the skills needed to drive a car, much less how to maintain or repair it. The career PUA is lonely because he's a victim of his own success. When you take a D&D nerd or a loser like Neil Strauss who up to that point lived his life's role as one, and then give him the keys to the castle, he's never going to appreciate the mental maturity necessary to bear the responsibility. You simply don't hand a rank amateur a black belt after 4 or 5 karate classes and then expect him to survive in the ring with "real" black belt. It's too much too fast.And to make matters worse, PUA teachers like Mystery, who've made a living teaching these skills, are trapped in a cycle of never maturing because it would mean having to grow up at the loss of an income.

PUA skills are tools, and valuable ones at that, but adopting the DJ mindset prepares an AFC for more. An AFC needs to first and foremost divorce himself from deep set social and psychological schemas (yes, the Matrix) - he needs to unlearn delusions that a lifetime has conditioned him to internalize into his personality. Giving an AFC PUA skills before this transition will only condemn him to disappointment and despair in an LTR, if not ruin his life outright.

The problem with just employing PUA skills to get any woman is that it actually gets you ANY woman. There's no vetting process, no discernment, taught as part of technique. AFCs get so impressed with their new found PUA confidence and getting hotter women (or women at all) that they have no motivation to think about who they should get involved with. They're unprepared for emotionally manipulative women and particularly when they're more attractive than anything they'd ever had before they obsess, develop ONEitis and in extreme cases, can be suicidal about a woman they'd previously never been able to attain.

 

[azanon]

I like your separation of PUA skills and being DJ. As fun as women are, I'd advise any young man/teenager to place improving himself in all areas of his life above everything else. To modify a bible verse, : Seek ye first developing yourself in the man you know that you should be, and all these things, including women, shall be added unto you.

 

[STR8UP]

See, the reverse is true for me.

I've absorbed more than my share of the DJ mindset, so much so that I am beginning to feel "The Curse of the DJ", but I never had much desire to develop PUA skills.

I won't say that I haven't used the basic psychology behind PUA techniques to game women, but I have never gone out with a bag of tricks with the intent to use them to get laid.

To respond more directly to the OP, I agree. It's The Curse of the DJ, and I am beginning to feel its grip becoming tighter.

Someone else made reference to the burden that comes along with wisdom. It is indeed a burden to peel back the layers exposing women and the mating game in general for what it really is; a selfish, cutthroat game of cat and mouse where the winners feel the great rush of victory, and the losers suffer the repercussions of defeat. Is there much in between?

But the thing is, we are ALL winners sometimes and we are all losers as well.

Some posters will argue that "it doesn't have to be that way". As if we can completely transcend our needs and desires as humans.

Certainly we can learn to control them to an extent. We all know how easy it can be to develop oneitis, but now that we are aware of the dynamic we can take steps to prevent it.

But I don't care how good you are with women, how many plates you are spinning, or if you pretend to give up and not care, you still have to care. If you didn't care you wouldn't experience the rush. You are dead. What's the point in being dead to it all?

See, that's the trick. You have to be able to find the balance between emotions, logic, and being emotionless. Women are for the most part incapable of this, so it is up to YOU as a MAN to develop yourself if you ever expect to have a happy, healthy relationship with a woman. If you can pull this off AND find a woman who has enough self awareness to not fall victim to the feminist agenda, there is potential for a long lasting relationship. Anything short of that formula is a ticking time bomb.

PArt of me wishes I could go back to the old me. It's great to live the fantasy, it really is.

 

[joekerr31]

most women are desperate for a quality guy. if you are a quality guy the odds of losing your woman are low.

so many guys think that the moment a woman walks out the front door there are 50 guys chasing after her.

BULLSH*T.

ya, sure, if your chic is in to the night scene she may be getting hit on a lot.

but if she's yoru average woman, going to work, hitting the gym 3 times a week, and spending time with you, TRUST ME, she's NOT getting hit every second.

heck, id say that most women, unless they are out partying and looking for attention, get hit on less than 10 times a year.

 

[STR8UP]

Not with ya all the way on this one joe. Most women wouldn't know a quality man if he fell out of the sky and landed in her lap with the words "quality guy" stamped on his forehead.

Take the fickle attraction mechanism that is inherent to all women, add our fukked up society into the equation, and how could you blame women for not knowing a good thing when they see it?

And it has been my experience that unless a woman is unattractive and socially awkward, she DOES have multiple men who are interested in her at any given time. She doesn't WANT most of them, but they are hovering nonetheless.

 

[squirrels]

See...here's what scares me about this forum in particular:

We were all raised on these myths about "quality guys" and "quality girls" vs "wh0res" and "slvts" and all...when you enter the PUA/DJ/whatever "universe", though, the line blurs. Even GOOD girls are subject to instances of weakness, when a skilled practitioner of PUA "magic" or DJ personality can spark an attraction. We've all established that women aren't "sane"...they follow their emotions more than their logic. And you can't be over your woman's shoulder 100% of the time. Like it or not, no matter what you do, she's ALWAYS "game-able". Doesn't matter how she was brought up...she can be taught to make exceptions and excuses. It's something you realize the first time you hook a girl with a boyfriend or a husband...they're all "game" in the right circumstance with the right moves.

Rollo talks about how Mystery frequently goes insane trying to deal with long-term relationships. I think the REASON why he goes insane is because most men simply CANNOT HANDLE the idea that their long-term relationship is THAT vulnerable. Someone like Mystery knows...he can't un-know because it's part of him...that if he can win over a woman, then someone can win that woman over away from him. There's no such thing as a TRUE LTR.

Most people here and elsewhere find it easy to step back down into ignorance. They start preaching crap like, "Improving yourself" and "finding the ever-elusive 'quality woman'" and that there's more to "the game" than just learning to game women, but what they're really doing is falling back on social convention, falling back into the illusion that there's some "security" to be found in a male-female relationship if it's "true". There is no "true relationship". I personally believe people like Mystery know this, and they can't handle the idea of being with so many women, yet knowing that in the end, he's truly alone.

It IS like giving "dynamite to children", because most people CAN'T handle the raw truth. It's like an autistic person who can't filter out senses and is bombarded by ALL of reality at once. Once you go so far down that path, you're pretty much forced to do one of several things. Either handle the truth, in its entirety, that the DJ lifestyle reveals, or selectively ignore pieces of it in the name of "maturity" in an attempt to return to a level where the world is comfortable again...to limit possibilities in an attempt to assure oneself that they are doing what they SHOULD instead of realizing the psychologically devastating array of possibilities.

Ducaro said something about the impermanence of all things. It's kind of like that. It's like accepting the fact that even YOU will not be around forever, and that anything you accomplish in this life will eventually be covered over by dust. Same concept...any woman you seduce will eventually forget you. If not in life, then in death. There's nothing "magical" about romance. There's no "long term". Any woman can be gamed. People love you because either 1) it's convenient for them, or 2) because it's considered the "proper" thing to do and people are more obliging to someone who follows "proper" ettiquite. The right man with the right game plan can dismantle that at the right time, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

There's some kind of Zen release here, but it doesn't make it feel any better. It just feels very, very lonely. It's the human condition, all over again, expressed in the M/F dynamic. It's who we are. Alone.

 

[JLR]

See...here's what scares me about this forum in particular:

Ducaro said something about the impermanence of all things. It's kind of like that. It's like accepting the fact that even YOU will not be around forever, and that anything you accomplish in this life will eventually be covered over by dust. Same concept...any woman you seduce will eventually forget you. If not in life, then in death. There's nothing "magical" about romance. There's no "long term". Any woman can be gamed. People love you because either 1) it's convenient for them, or 2) because it's considered the "proper" thing to do and people are more obliging to someone who follows "proper" ettiquite. The right man with the right game plan can dismantle that at the right time, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

There's some kind of Zen release here, but it doesn't make it feel any better. It just feels very, very lonely. It's the human condition, all over again, expressed in the M/F dynamic. It's who we are. Alone.

I take it that you do not believe in leaving behind a legacy? And I don't just mean progeny..... I think we go through life, some of us "alone." But, we have various opportunities to make a true difference for the "good", whichever way you define that. What you leave behind is the good you've done; I guess I do equate that w/ having lived a meaningful life. Also, I guess to me, "alone" is NOT = "lonely." (Hell, the loneliest I've ever been was the last 9 months of a LTR) Living a fulfilling, meaningful life does not necessarily imply a long-term, "meaningful" relationship. Would it be better to not be alone? For most, sure, I suppose (including me). But it is not the end-all, be-all, IMO...just sayin'.

 

[STR8UP]

Squirrels-

For some time i have expected to see a post like this from you.

Why did I even notice to begin with? Because we're both at about the same point with our discovery process.

Everything you touched on is crystal clear to me. I have been saying forever that there's no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" girl, there's no "high quality" or "low quality". WOMEN ARE WOMEN.

And it doesn't take a Pickup Artist to come along and seduce your sunday school teacher wife. It's more likely to be her coworker who has never even heard of the term "AFC". He doesn't even consciously think about "building comfort". He could be a natural DJ/PUA or he could be an average joe who comes along and unwittingly displays SOME kind of characteristic that pushes JUST the right button.

This is the only real oversight in your observation. You gave potato the perfect foothold for a counter argument, and he's right, but like I said, most of the time it's gonna be your neighbor or her coworker, not some dude who kinos her in a dark corner of the bar on GNO.

Most guys out there have at least an instinctual level of "PUA" built into them, in that they were born to fukk, and unless the other guy is his buddy he's likely to not give two sh!ts about trying to hook up with your girl. It's just nature. Even the awkward not so attractive guy is sometimes in the right place at the right time.

Like I've said before.....the myth of the quality woman is almost as poisonous as oneitis. It's all based on HOPE. You HOPE you have chosen a "good" girl. You go into a relationship HOPING that the right guy doesn't come along and take your precious jewel. Actually now that I think about it, it has nothing to do with hope. Most guys are convinced that their girl would never do something like that, so there is no need for hope. They are blissfully ignorant. they don't want to even consider the fact that there's a good chance that it COULD happen to them.

Of course, you can improve your odds of this not happening to you by becoming a better man. And you SHOULD do so. Just don't ever think, no matter how good you are, that you are completely immune.

I have posted on this before, and of course, everyone who believes the myth automatically assumes that the women I talk about are club skanks who will fukk anyone, but I can assure you that I know a pretty good cross section of people and it never ceases to amaze me the number of women with husbands and boyfriends who cheat, LET ALONE the ones who simply engage in behavior that their significant other would not approve of.

If I were a little more aggressive and more concerned with hooking up with many women, I probably could have fukked several of them in the very recent past.

I think everyone would agree that if a chick has a fiancee she shouldn't be sleeping in your bed next to you in a silk nightie. But I had one of those recently. A few months before that I was laying in a friend's bed with three women. The one who was laying on my arm next to me was the "bachelorette". Most of the group was drunk and smoking pot. What do you think her future husband would have to say about that if he knew? I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point, and everyone is gonna continue to say these are "low quality" women anyway, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[KontrollerX]

"He could be a natural DJ/PUA or he could be an average joe who comes along and unwittingly displays SOME kind of characteristic that pushes JUST the right button."

Wow.

I think now I finally understand what you were getting at Str8up.

This is exactly it and because this is exactly it there are indeed no low quality or high quality women.

They just are what they are and no matter how seemingly dignified one is to you if she meets the most pathetic AFC with one quality that she desperately craves that lacks in you she's out the door with not a care in the world that you donated her a kidney and worked yourself to the breaking point for her and your children's well being for years on end.

Once the latent emotions are triggered you are in the history books.

 

[reset]

Have any of the guys here ever had a successful LTR?

This thread is unbelievably depressing.

Guess we wouldn't have forums like this otherwise.

 

[STR8UP]

Have any of the guys here ever had a successful LTR?

Define "successful".

I have had LTR's, yes. My last g/f was amazing right up to the end. The sex, the companionship, everything. then I made a couple of mistakes, nothing that couldn't have been talked out, and she took it as "we were through" and started hanging out at some waiters house at 3am. Dude had an EL CAMINO! The funniest thing though....HE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A DRIVERS LICENSE!

Over a simple mistake, she killed the entire two years we spent together on a loser who showed her a little attention.

Had another good one as well that lasted about a year and a half. Can't prove she was seeing someone else when she left, but I would guess she was.