Does being "Don Juan" mean being alone??

[reset]

I mean, you worked on yourself to the point that you had some self-esteem and felt good about yourself, and you didn't need women's validation, and learned to have a healthy relationship because you only allowed women into your life who treated you well (otherwise they know that YOU have options) and you're PRETTY SURE she didn't cheat on you. Seems to be that's when the relationships END.

The general attitude seems to be, no matter what you do, or who the girl is, you should just assume that 99.999% she is going to cheat on you/leave you and that you should walk through life always looking over your shoulder thinking there's another guy who's better than you and you should fear him. Almost like what you do has no bearing whatsoever.

 

[STR8UP]

They just are what they are and no matter how seemingly dignified one is to you if she meets the most pathetic AFC with one quality that she desperately craves that lacks in you she's out the door with not a care in the world that you donated her a kidney and worked yourself to the breaking point for her and your children's well being for years on end.

Once the latent emotions are triggered you are in the history books.

Well, some guys still cling to the idea that some are "different", but I will never buy it.

Is it possible that you could have a healthy, happy relationship with a woman who never goes astray? I think so, but the odds are slim, and you never, never, NEVER know the other person as well as you think you do. ALL women are capable of being seduced given the right circumstances. Doesn't mean they all WILL be seduced, but the potential is always there.

And yea, a woman has an incredibly cruel defense mechanism that allows her to IMMEDIATELY terminate any sort of "love" she had for you as soon as she secures another source of intimacy. A woman will always hesitate to sever her branch with you until she finds another man, but when she does grab hold of another branch she will bring out a CHAINSAW to cut yours off.

I was always perplexed by how a woman could be so cold in the end. But now I see all of those "I love yous" just meant "I will love you so long as you give me what I need and I don't see something better".

Women see men as expendable. Get used to it fellas.

 

[STR8UP]

I mean, you worked on yourself to the point that you had some self-esteem and felt good about yourself, and you didn't need women's validation, and learned to have a healthy relationship because you only allowed women into your life who treated you well (otherwise they know that YOU have options) and you're PRETTY SURE she didn't cheat on you. Seems to be that's when the relationships END.

Both women I spoke of treated me like a king. There wasn't much of a power struggle (I don't put up with that sh!t). I got along with both of them VERY well, until circumstances changed, then they either dumped me or committed a third degree felony that caused me to end it.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Ducaro said something about the impermanence of all things. It's kind of like that. It's like accepting the fact that even YOU will not be around forever, and that anything you accomplish in this life will eventually be covered over by dust. Same concept...any woman you seduce will eventually forget you. If not in life, then in death. There's nothing "magical" about romance. There's no "long term". Any woman can be gamed. People love you because either 1) it's convenient for them, or 2) because it's considered the "proper" thing to do and people are more obliging to someone who follows "proper" ettiquite. The right man with the right game plan can dismantle that at the right time, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

There's some kind of Zen release here, but it doesn't make it feel any better. It just feels very, very lonely. It's the human condition, all over again, expressed in the M/F dynamic. It's who we are. Alone.

In the West the Stoics hold a similar, though less mystical, tradition as the Buddhists and Zen. One of the most famous Stoic philosophers was a freed slave named Epictetus. Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full" novel was in part based on Epictetus' writings.

Anyhow, this Stoic believed that only the wise man could love because only the wise man could 1.) see the world for the way it really is and 2.) see the real value of things. I would expand on that point by saying that because the wise know how the world really is they understand that they can open themselves to another person without fear because that other person can never hurt them. Only you can hurt you.

Though I'm not sure "I love you because I know you can't hurt me" would look very good on a Valentine's Day card...

Panaetius gave a charming answer to the youth who asked whether the wise man would fall in love: ‘As to the wise man, we shall see. What concerns you and me, who are still a great distance from the wise man, is to ensure that we do not fall into a state of affairs which is disturbed, powerless, subservient to another and worthless to oneself.’ (Ep. 116. 5, trans. Long and Sedley)

 

[reset]

So this stuff happened towards the end. Meaning, something was wrong so the relationship went south.

I guess what I'm asking is, if the relationship is going good, she's probably going to cheat anyway, just because she's a woman?

 

[STR8UP]

In the West the Stoics hold a similar, though less mystical, tradition as the Buddhists and Zen. One of the most famous Stoic philosophers was a freed slave named Epictetus. Tom Wolfe's "A Man in Full" novel was in part based on Epictetus' writings.

Anyhow, this Stoic believed that only the wise man could love because only the wise man could 1.) see the world for the way it really is and 2.) see the real value of things. I would expand on that point by saying that because the wise know how the world really is they understand that they can open themselves to another person without fear because that other person can never hurt them. Only you can hurt you.

Though I'm not sure "I love you because I know you can't hurt me" would look very good on a Valentine's Day card...

LOL!

That's just it. I think once I am able to train myself to FULLY accept things for the way they are, I will be able to once again let down my guard knowing that I have transcended the madness. I look forward to that day.

 

[STR8UP]

So this stuff happened towards the end. Meaning, something was wrong so the relationship went south.

I guess what I'm asking is, if the relationship is going good, she's probably going to cheat anyway, just because she's a woman?

Not at all.

The better the relationship is, the less likely she is to cheat. the better man you are, the less likely she is to cheat. But at the end of the day, a woman's attraction mechanism is incredibly fickle, and it might take very little to open just enough of a crack for someone else to squeeze into.

 

[reset]

Allright. That's much more encouraging.

 

[Bonhomme]

No.

 

[disfunktional]

Have any of the guys here ever had a successful LTR?

This thread is unbelievably depressing.

Guess we wouldn't have forums like this otherwise.

Yes for 6 years. She never cheated on me. We eventually split up as we wanted different things, she wanted to move out of the city and "settle down" and I wanted to stay in the city and be single again as I felt like I hadn't experienced enough women. I wanted to get out and spread my seed I don't regret having such a long relationship though, I think it taught me a lot.

Funny thing is she is now engaged to some other guy and she rang me out of the blue for a chat a few weeks back (when her fiancee was working late). Ended up with her saying that she thought I was the right guy at the wrong time and that she wants to stay in contact. I've no doubt that I could pull her away from her fiancee if I tried, and she would go behind his back for sure, but I'm not gonna go there as she's in the past.

I completely agree with STR8UP when he said:

"The better the relationship is, the less likely she is to cheat. the better man you are, the less likely she is to cheat."

Thats why I think if you follow the DJ principles, become that man that you want to be, you shouldn't need to worry too much about your woman cheating on you. Sure, there is always the possibility she will, maybe there is nothing you can do to fully prevent that, but you can minimise it.

 

[squirrels]

See...that's just it.

The desire to be "with someone", to go from being "two ones" to "a two", is just too much for most women to deal with.

I'm starting to think that cheating, as it is, is driven by a desire to not be alone. A woman who cheats is in such desperate fear of being alone that she bound herself to a guy in the first place...then when she realizes she's STILL alone, despite being in this fear-based relationship, she gets seduced by ANOTHER man outside that relationship into thinking that she's finally found someone to JOIN with...then when she ends up with him, she's STILL alone...and the cycle perpetuates each time someone else appears to offer a promise to end the "alone".

The truth is, in the end, we're ALL alone. That's something that most people in this world can't grasp. Much less learn to DEAL with when they DO grasp it. And even less THRIVE in that realization.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Rollo talks about how Mystery frequently goes insane trying to deal with long-term relationships. I think the REASON why he goes insane is because most men simply CANNOT HANDLE the idea that their long-term relationship is THAT vulnerable. Someone like Mystery knows...he can't un-know because it's part of him...that if he can win over a woman, then someone can win that woman over away from him. There's no such thing as a TRUE LTR.

I half agree with this, but for a different reasoning. Mystery has options, he knows he has options and he excercizes these options oftent enough to realize his value as a commodity in this respect. Hell, the guy makes a living from exercizing his options. But as I've stated many times before, committment cancels options, and without these options the PUA loses value because he doesn't know how to operate in any other fashion than that of a PUA. Committment kills the PUA - what's left then? A return to what he's known before, an AFC mindset. If he is insecure about another guy (most likely a PUA as he used to be before committment) snatching his LTR/ONEitis girl away it's because he was unprepared to transition into an LTR as a DJ and lacks the mental attitude necessary to firmly establish him as commodity inside the LTR. Of course he's worried about his LTR girl getting pulled away; he's sacrificed his options to be with her and he knows what worked to get her.

People love to tell you how you have to change the inside first, and in a way this is true. You have to kill the inner AFC before you can responsibly use PUA skills. Fake it 'till you make has merit, and can solve a lot of problems, but an AFC needs to change his mind about himself to make a real personal change. I get a lot of criticism for my "theories", or my nuts & bolts breakdowns of the social and psychological mechanics, but I concentrate on this because it's what I feel is really lacking in the community.

People are lazy. Particularly guys, who are driven by their natural impulses, but chronically meet with disappointment with women. We'd all love to have that magic cure for our biggest failing. Dieters want a pill to make them skinny, bodybuilders want that shortcut to instant muscle mass, we'd all like a fool-proof, get rich quick book that makes us an overnight success, but the truth of the matter is that for a great many things in this life, dedication, perseverance and hard work are necessary elements for that success. In fact the process of developing oneself IS the requirement, but hand out the diploma and all the entitlements that come along with it before you ever go to school and you're completely unprepared for what's thrown at you in the real world. PUA skills should be learned with the purpose of killing that inner AFC.

I’m not at all convinced that PUA techniques work on all women. That PUA is not a sure fire thing is evident in that the biggest complaint of PUAs is the lack of quality women and flakes. Neither of these would occur if all women succumbed to the trickery of a PUA.

You're right they don't. There will ALWAYS be a certain amount of adjustment needed for specific environments. You're simply not going to sarge a Goth chick at a some industrial rave the same way you would the slightly naughty "good girl" at Bible study. Additionally, there are just some PUA tools some guys cannot pull off successfully for whatever reason, so there's a need for playing to ones strengths and dropping things that don't work as well.

That said, I think it's a mistake to think of PUA tools as "trickery." This is an interesting dynamic really, and it comes back to feminine social conventions being the defining order; why are PUA skills "trickery" and push up bras, hair dye, breast implants, make up, high heels, etc. just women being women?

And really what are PUA techniques? They are mimicked, learned behaviors that have been modeled by men who naturally perform them and verifiably recieve women's sexual attentions. The only trickery that results is from a guy's capacity to display these behaviors and how well this agrees with his self-image.

Ducaro said something about the impermanence of all things. It's kind of like that. It's like accepting the fact that even YOU will not be around forever, and that anything you accomplish in this life will eventually be covered over by dust. Same concept...any woman you seduce will eventually forget you.

I once had my mother ask me, "why do you work out so much? you know you might get hit by a bus tomorrow or die from cancer in a year." I said, "yeah? but I'll be the best looking guy in the mortuary for that week." I was joking, but I'm more interested in the quality of my own life I'm living, and building muscle and enjoying the rewards of this adds to this quality. Everything is temporal, get used to it. Anything you think will endure indeffinitely only illustrates our desires for immortality. I think a real key to happiness in this life is accepting temporalness. Once you do, I think you'll find that you enjoy things more in the moment they happen.

Have any of the guys here ever had a successful LTR?

This thread is unbelievably depressing.

Why is it depressing? I've been happily (successfully?) married for 11.5 years now. I know AZANON is too. I think you find it depressing because it seems hopeless or nihilistic in the terms that you've been conditioned to think would make for a "successful" LTR, and then getting to that stage. "Success" isn't a term that should be applied to LTRs/Marriages - it makes them finite. LTRs and marriages are an ongoing process. Some are horrible, misery prone relationships. Some are filled with challenge and progress. Some are stagnant, banal and boring. But all have their highs and lows - figuratively, even in the worst of relationships there would have to be something perceived as good about it in order to sustain it.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...Thats why I think if you follow the DJ principles, become that man that you want to be, you shouldn't need to worry too much about your woman cheating on you. Sure, there is always the possibility she will, maybe there is nothing you can do to fully prevent that, but you can minimise it.

That's why qualifying is a very important part of being a DJ. Just because a guy gets a woman it doesn't mean she is worth being gotten.

 

[Tex]

As far as I know I thought being a DJ meant you were supposed to be comfortable with yourself, and be confident that your girl would stay. Anyways if she does leave its her loss bud. You are right in the respect that there will always be someone better at something, but the important thing to take from that statement is that there is nobody out there with the same combination of your attributes/weaknesses and that makes each of us special and a "catch" in our own ways. It all comes down to finding the right woman that satisfies you in every way and you satisfy her completely also. If this is and only when this is true will you not have to even think about fidelity. We can all only hope to find that girl one day.

 

[ketostix]

I think it boils down to three things.

1. Women don't know what they really want, outside of a fleeting emotional rush that many guys can deliver her.

2. When women see thing they do want, it tends to be the wrong things for her and her wanting the wrong qualities. (I.e. there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a polite, respectable man who isn't a philander, but most women don't want him)


3. Men have little integrety anymore. A lot of men if even subcounciously go after girls just because some other guy wants her or has her. (Yes in a rare instance I'm blaming men.)

 

[ketostix]

That's why qualifying is a very important part of being a DJ. Just because a guy gets a woman it doesn't mean she is worth being gotten.

This is very true and valid F d'A. It's not a panacea though because women are chameleons. The very same girl will assume the role of quality girl with a guy qualifying her on that, and she'll assume the bad girl role with another guy qualifying her on that. Her failing to meet your qualifications likely is more a case of her just not being that interested in you than it is her having or not having those qualities. It's like Str8up says, there's no such thing as a good girl and a bad girl. It's just two different roles the same girl plays.

 

[reset]

Why is it depressing? I've been happily (successfully?) married for 11.5 years now. I know AZANON is too. I think you find it depressing because it seems hopeless or nihilistic in the terms that you've been conditioned to think would make for a "successful"

Well I'm still trying to get a clear picture in my head of what that is. I find it depressing because I see guys who are "successful" at meeting and dating lots of different women, and they are still miserable.

Either there is no such thing as love(and I know nothing lasts forever), or more likely, people are looking for happiness outside of themselves and thus not truly enjoying the relationship while they are having it, because they keep worrying if they are going to lose it every other second. And I bet that FEAR is telegraphed to women and they pick up on it, and it could end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy of her indeed wanting to stray.

I actually seek out the postive stuff like when you mention your marriage, that gives me hope. It hasn't been too long that I've finally accepted that a girl is not going to MAKE me happy, because the guys here who do get girls, can still be unhappy so that's a dead end.

My PURPOSE now is just to be cool with who I am and make sure that I'm doing good things for myself, and treating myself well, all the things I'd like a woman to do for me, I have to do first. Like you mentioned, I went from depressed/lonely/frustrated straight into the technique... I got completely high off a girl's adoration/attention without any foundation underneath and of course when she left I was practically catatonic.

I know this post doesn't make much sense and I'm rambling but it helps me clarify whatever is in my head, because I want to actually know WHAT I want, from myself and relationships. I need a purpose, like Francisco said in the other thread.

 

[mrRuckus]

That's why qualifying is a very important part of being a DJ. Just because a guy gets a woman it doesn't mean she is worth being gotten.

Ever posted something on a message board or read a news article where comments are enabled? I very often see women respond with "no wonder why you're single" as if it's sooo shameful and we're just pathetic because we don't have a female master. Anymore, she better be damned awesome for me to tie myself down to just one.

Even my mom has done this to me. "No wonder why your relationships never work out," after I said something about dating she disagrees with. No, they worked out just fine the length of time they lasted and they ended when i no longer got what i wanted from them. Who said the ultimate goal is to marry every girl I see more than once and why is it assumed that I am to blame for a relationship failure? Cause i'm the dude and if i'd performed like a circus monkey for the girl properly when and where she said jump i'd still be in that relationship?

Here's one article example I saw on Fark today about British vs American women where if you go to the comments the women roast the author and make their snide remarks of "that's why you're single" as if 'a$$hole' ever precluded a male from getting women.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/beauty/article3029451.ece

 

[reset]

Men are from OZ: No brains, no courage, no heart. That was some chick's license plate frame that I saw today. So there's a type of woman to stay AWAY from. Not to get too off topic.

 

[ketostix]

Ever posted something on a message board or read a news article where comments are enabled? I very often see women respond with "no wonder why you're single" as if it's sooo shameful and we're just pathetic because we don't have a female master. Anymore, she better be damned awesome for me to tie myself down to just one.

Even my mom has done this to me. "No wonder why your relationships never work out," after I said something about dating she disagrees with. No, they worked out just fine the length of time they lasted and they ended when i no longer got what i wanted from them. Who said the ultimate goal is to marry every girl I see more than once and why is it assumed that I am to blame for a relationship failure? Cause i'm the dude and if i'd performed like a circus monkey for the girl properly when and where she said jump i'd still be in that relationship?

Here's one article example I saw on Fark today about British vs American women where if you go to the comments the women roast the author and make their snide remarks of "that's why you're single" as if 'a$$hole' ever precluded a male from getting women.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/beauty/article3029451.ece

Agreed, this is similar to what I said in the Casanova thread moved to the DJ forum. It's always the man to blame. If he does and gives women what they respond to even if he'd rather not have to, then he's an "a$$hole". If he doesn't give them what they respond to, then it's his fault and he's an "AFC" (I know women don't call him that but they punish him for it just the same). Women have no accountability or responsibility in society, they run form it and shun it, and that's the real reason they're the way they are. Women can't even define what an "a$$hole" is or isn't. Even when they do define what it is they want and don't want, they go and do the opposite anyway.

Bottom line is if there's too much serial dating and too much reward for being an "a$$hole" that's because women themselves want to serial date and reward certain male behaviors.