Doc love's latest article

[Imbrondir]

Two things that the doc thinks belongs to the Worst 5 things to do on a first date:

1. Touch your date
WHAT ???
Sure go for her leg 5 mins after you've met her might not be a great idea, but not touch her at all? Sound like a good nice guy potential there (?)

2. Talk about sex
Guess you'll try to connect abit with her first.. but.. really? This is a bad thing?

*confused*

 

[georgie24]

those are no-no's

 

[[Rebel2]]

Yeah, what the fook!

No, kino on the first date?

No, talking about other chicks?

DJ's please shed some light on this topic.

 

[killerasp]

1. Touch your date
Yes, keep your hands to yourself the entire date. show no affection. WTF??? You gotta apply kino to your date. Dont go groping her or trying to get your hands down her panties.

2. Talk about sex

I think this is okay for a first date. But there is a limit to it. I dont think you should be talking about how many sexual partners each person had in the past.

 

[BGMan]

Good question.

Judging from personal experience, and reading posts here, touching (kino) is great if you're in, say, a bar setting, looking for a woman to screw, and all the women there are looking to get screwed. If you are looking for someone to date, then it will only hurt your cause. If she has really high interest it won't matter, but I still wouldn't do it.

BGMan

 

[RKTek]

Doc is not referring to "kino". He's talking about 'touching', and I'd differentiate between the two this way:

Touching is anything that involves grasping, such as closing your hand around hers, or grabbing her knee or shoulder, or hugging. This would also include touching with most of your palm, such as laying your open hand on her.

"Kino" is extremely light, almost imperceptible. One finger in the small of her back as she's preceeding you through a door. Or a light single-finger touch on the arm to get her attention to look in a different direction.

As far as talking about sex, agreed. No talking about sex, sexuality, bodily functions of any kind, even if she mentions such things, cuss words even if she says them or any negative topic.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I'll post a reply based on my own personal experience and a bit of hard gained wisdom.

First, as far as kino, I agree with BGMan that it works in a bar or club setting. I do use kino on the first date, But, not until she initiates it. I agree with Doc Love to some extent, in that you want to gauge her Interest Level. And all but the most super-shy/ inexperienced women will at least tap or touch you if they like you. NO touch from her = NEXT. However, I don't agree with Doc Love that you shouldn't touch back. WHY? Because experience has shown me that today's woman is more into sex than many guys think.

Most of us on here have gotten nowhere with women because we haven't embraced our sexuality at one point. THIS gets you labeled as too NICE. For guys in this position, you need to touch her back. BUT, again, only after she touches you. And go tit-for-tat. Meaning if she touches your arm or hand, you don't touch anything but her arm or hand. Don't be the first to touch the leg or other personal areas. I recently heard a girl talking about a guy who started getting all touchy feely with her. Now she thinks he's creepy. Let her initiate the kino, let her set the pace, and let her up the stakes. After that... It's up to you as the man to initiate the kiss, sex, and everything else. This has shown to work best in my experience.

Doc Love's idea of not touching her at all could be used eventually. BUT only when you're oozing with sexuality so much that you're in no danger of being labeled "too nice". The idea behind it then, is to be such a challenge that she literally jumps all over you as soon as she gets a chance. And how many of us have had that happen? Right! If we did, we wouldn't be on here. It takes a lot of time and experience to get to this point.

As far as not talking about sex. Don't talk about it unless she brings it up. Then, talk about it all you want. Unless you're just looking for a ONS with this girl, you don't want her to think that sex is all that's on your mind. Even if it is. I never bring sex up. I just show that I'm sexual by my body language and actions, as well as attitude. I often have girls bring it up, though. When they do, feel free to joke around about it, but DON"T brag.

 

[gt95ab]

Gentlemen....... You must take into consideration the context that the letter was written in. Basically, there are two kinds of women that you date. Either the ones you just want to bone, or the ones that you may like to have a longer relationship with and he is talking about the latter. If your dating a women that you would prefer to explore something other than just a sexual relationship with, then you have to treat her like such, with a touch of class. If any of you have seen the DJ movie, "The Tao of Steve", then you should remember one of the golden rules, which is, "Forget the Pu$$y". This is what he is talking about, if you go out and try to bed a women on the first date every time, the women always get fed up and kicks you to the curb, becuase every guy tries it. What you have to do is do everything perfect (or close enough) so that she wants a second date and a third date and so on, and thats when you can put your moves on. Remember, he's talking about women that you don't really know at all and that you are out on a "date" with. She already knows that your "interested" in her, or you wouldn't have asked her out, so relax and try not to get in her pants the first date. There will be plenty of time for that in the following weeks when she can't resist you. Plus, how is fondling her "being a challenge".

Also, he is dead on when he says to let her initiate the kino. LET A WOMEN TELL YOU HOW COMFORTABLE SHE IS WITH PERSONNAL CONTACT and go from there. Remember, some women who are generally sexually uninhibited still have a rule about not kissing on a first date, but that doesn't apply to date number 2, now does it? Just relax guys and stopped trying to get laid every single date, women can smell yor motives a mile away.

The ethical DJ - gt95ab

 

[Vassago]

have you guys actually looked at Doc Love's Pic???

He Drives a PT Cruiser, has a Moustache, and...

He Has The Gayest Looking Dog
I've Ever Seen!

I can't believe anyone would take advice from this guy!

First of all, there is no better way to get a women horny than to talk about sex in a subtle manner and touch her when appropriate. And of course...

You can't have sex without touching!

I'm not saying you should grope all over her on the first date, but everyone knows that.

I could go on and on, but I'm putting myself to sleep here...

 

[LionFox]

The Doc is way wrong here. His stuff on interest levels is good, but I say he is way off.

First off, there is GROPING, and then there is kino.

Groping is the most unDon Juan thing you can do in the world.

Kino is magic.

Have anyone here, maybe back in your AFC days been wildly attracted on a woman, and maybe you were too shy to approach or maybe you had and she had been stand-offish, and THEN one day out of the blue, she comes by and touches you ever so lightly on the arm and back, in a friendly but ultimately sexual way? Touches you and NOTHING more? Do you remember what that did to you? I do, it was like being hit by lightening and since then, I know KINO IS THE WAY TO GO!

 

[BGMan]

Originally posted by RKTek
Doc is not referring to "kino". He's talking about 'touching', and I'd differentiate between the two this way:

Touching is anything that involves grasping, such as closing your hand around hers, or grabbing her knee or shoulder, or hugging. This would also include touching with most of your palm, such as laying your open hand on her.

"Kino" is extremely light, almost imperceptible. One finger in the small of her back as she's preceeding you through a door. Or a light single-finger touch on the arm to get her attention to look in a different direction.

Ah. Gotcha.

BGMan

 

[stallion]

I've been wedged between Doc Lov's no-touch on 1st date vs all the Kinos that DJs here recommend for two years..

My conclusion is that instead of doing any light kino, you can do pre-kino (walk, sit close to her so you're invading her personal space but no touching!)

Also, I agree with Clint about touching back. If a girl touches me lightly, I may touch back after she's done it more than twice. So she ends up touching me more than I do. Also, Doc Lov only stresses on the 1ST DATE so he does realize the potential of Kino. I think Doc Lov's point is to keep the gropers, touchers from turning women off by excessive touching and rely more on seducing her through other means. Then we take out the big guns (Kino) if we make it to the second round!

 

[Pook]

Great response, Clint. Let me add on:

Originally posted by Clint Eastwood
First, as far as kino, I agree with BGMan that it works in a bar or club setting.

The bar or club setting are not designed for you to find 'the one'. They are geared more towards sex.

I do use kino on the first date, But, not until she initiates it. I agree with Doc Love to some extent, in that you want to gauge her Interest Level. And all but the most super-shy/ inexperienced women will at least tap or touch you if they like you. NO touch from her = NEXT. However, I don't agree with Doc Love that you shouldn't touch back. WHY? Because experience has shown me that today's woman is more into sex than many guys think.

It is not "today's women". Women are entirely sexual. I would even say that a woman, not being properly sexed, will suffer mental problems later in life like HYSTERIA and other nasties.

Woman and sexuality are not two but one.

Most of us on here have gotten nowhere with women because we haven't embraced our sexuality at one point. THIS gets you labeled as too NICE. For guys in this position, you need to touch her back. BUT, again, only after she touches you. And go tit-for-tat. Meaning if she touches your arm or hand, you don't touch anything but her arm or hand. Don't be the first to touch the leg or other personal areas.

Some guys will be confused because they hear the 'don't touch' and the 'go kino' on her.

"Which is it!?" they wonder.

But they are missing the point. It has NOTHING to do with touching. It has everything to do with sexuality. Nice Guys are seen as invisible, completely harmless. When Nice Guys kino, they can get away with it and it signals sexuality. However, once you are that torch of sexuality shining your light abroad, women will be drawn to you like moths to a flame. Guys in high states of sexuality should not initially touch chicks because you come off as TOO NEEDY. After all, if you are a stud, why do you need to start touching chicks? Hell, you have MORE chicks out there! Don't look at her like a drowning man looks at a life preserver.

I recently heard a girl talking about a guy who started getting all touchy feely with her. Now she thinks he's creepy. Let her initiate the kino, let her set the pace, and let her up the stakes. After that... It's up to you as the man to initiate the kiss, sex, and everything else. This has shown to work best in my experience.

Yep.

There is also another thing to consider with YOUNG chicks vs. OLDER chicks. OLDER chicks have seen everything. You start kinoing an older chick and she'll think you desperate, looking only for sex.

Also, beautiful women shouldn't be initially kinoed. Why? Can you imagine how many guys do it to them on dates? Remember that beautiful women are aware of sexuality much more since they are smack in the center of it.

Doc Love's idea of not touching her at all could be used eventually. BUT only when you're oozing with sexuality so much that you're in no danger of being labeled "too nice". The idea behind it then, is to be such a challenge that she literally jumps all over you as soon as she gets a chance. And how many of us have had that happen? Right!

hey! It happens to me! Well, not the jumping on me part. But the floodgates do go down.

I had a friend who was raped (a guy raped by a girl). Apparently, a girl got him drunk and he lost consciousness. He woke up in a bed with condom wrappers all around him. He looked under the covers and saw this fat nasty biotch down there. He jumped out of bed and got the hell out of there fast.

I tried to get him to press charges but he wouldn't. He didn't want it to go public that she did him. So it looks like only the nasty girls rape.

If we did, we wouldn't be on here. It takes a lot of time and experience to get to this point.

Women are 100% sexuality. When you get to that point of 'super-sexuality', women will act as coriers and advertise you throughout Womaniverse. If you turn down their signals, you will be declared gay by them.

This has happened to me and to some others I know. One of the guys was british and the girls literally captured him in a parking lot. "Are you GAY? I will have sex with you in this parking lot RIGHT NOW!" He refused (hahaha) and the women imploded (this is just another reason how women are 100% sexual. If a guy is single but has the goods, he must be gay. No other reason seems to come to their heads.)

As far as not talking about sex. Don't talk about it unless she brings it up. Then, talk about it all you want. Unless you're just looking for a ONS with this girl, you don't want her to think that sex is all that's on your mind. Even if it is. I never bring sex up. I just show that I'm sexual by my body language and actions, as well as attitude. I often have girls bring it up, though. When they do, feel free to joke around about it, but DON"T brag.

I've found they usually joke about it with comparing you to another guy they like and saying you two make a great gay couple. Or they say other things like old women trying to rape you. They're usually not direct. They throw in a prop who has their real feelings (ex: "maybe that chick thought you were hot!")

Vassago: There is a fine difference between capturing a woman's heart and a woman's body. The central difference between a lay and getting a mate is that with the mate, she must think she is getting YOU and that requires challenge!
She has to do some of the work.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

Originally posted by Pook

I tried to get him to press charges but he wouldn't. He didn't want it to go public that she did him. So it looks like only the nasty girls rape.

I can't help but find that amusing (that he didn't want it public) - my apologies to your friend.

Seems contrary to all the macho guy boasts you hear normally.

Oscar.

 

[Vassago]

Pook -

Don't tell me how to do my job

Seriously though, this is VERY true and something everyone should note.

 

[Mizer]

I believe that it is crucial to establish yourself as a sexual man and to put as much distance between you and a possible residence in the LJBF zone as possible on that very first date. How can this be achieved? Skillful kino, of course.

I have learned over the years that it is almost always crucial to apply kino on that first date. I almost broke that rule this past weekend and I am still trying to recover from it.


Her (HB in relationship with another guy): You are not going to try to get frisky with me or grope on me when I come over are you?

Me: I was going to ask you the same thing?

Her: [chuckles] No frisky stuff.

Me: [couldn’t think of witty comeback at the moment] I’ll see you this weekend.


*Dilemma* - I have to establish myself as a sexual man without making her feel like a slut while being touched since there is the boyfriend problem.


[she arrives at my place]-

She sits on couch. I sit in chair across from couch. We talk for a bit. I get up to go and get us something to drink. Bring back the drinks and look down at her hair, reach out for it and began to run my fingers through it.

Her: Who told you can touch my hair?

Me [with sly grin]: I don’t need permission.

Continued to stroke her hair for a few more seconds. We get into small conversation about her hair with her doing most of the talking, of course.

I sit back in my chair. We chat some more, laugh, listen to music, try to watch DVD etc,. I find reasons to sit close to her sporadically throughout the night. I find ways to slide my arm through hers and rest my hands on her thighs while being too careful not to make her feel uncomfortable. We go to the balcony to enjoy the view.

[Clock moves very much forward. I am beginning to question my tactics]- I walk her to her car and say my good-byes. Get back to my apartment. Immediately the phones rings.

Her: I had a nice time……I really like you……Why didn’t you sit by me all night? I wanted you to sit close to me all night. I wanted to tell you that but..…blah blah blah.

Me: I think too damn much.

Well, now I am in the back-off- a-bit mode just to reestablish myself. All for something that I have learned over and over again and it goes without saying.........


Sometimes the use of kino on the first date is a judgement call but I will trust to apply it much much much more than not. As you can probably see from here is that even too little can be a mistake.



Mizer

 

[bp1974]

Speaking from my own experience, initiating the kino has been a good thing if you want sex that night. But it has to be done in context.

If I've been talking to a girl for a while in a bar and she's not moved closer to me I won't start grabbing her. But when a girl leans in so she can talk into my ear, it's natural for me to then rest my hand under her elbow as she's leaning in and talking, and see what her response is. Normally, that opens the floodgates, as it gives her a clear sign that I'm interested and sexual. Then it's a case of two steps forwards, one step back.

bp1974

 

[johnnyboy101]

One) Do not touch your date. Don't grab her knee. Don't try to hold her hand. Don't squeeze her shoulder and don't put your arm around her. Men mistakenly think that if they initiate touching that it will somehow "prime the pump" and it will make the woman want to touch them. The opposite is true. The more you put your hands on her the more it inhibits her. The wise man holds back and lets the woman do all the touching, if she is so inspired. The only way you can get a clear "read" is if you wait and watch without trying to manipulate her Interest Level.

Touch is essential on the first date - take it from someone who uses successfully the Gunwitch method (link). I personally will touch the elbow as soon as I see my date, then position the chairs in such a way that our knees will be touching each other. There is some initial early resistance, but, using GWM, she will normally initiate contact back within 10-15 minutes if she is interested.

Touching a woman with kino (not placing yourself all over her all the time) is crucial, it communicates the message that "I touch women all the time and they enjoy being touched by me". Touching a woman releases all sorts of brain chemicals which are very positive if she likes you.

As much as I respect Doc Love, this is VERY AFC advice, and goes directly against my experience in the field.

Another important reason why kino/touching is important - let's say you want to start touching her an hour or two into the date and you have not touched her before. She's going to think that something is up.

Do not talk about other women. Don't talk about your ex-wives or ex- girlfriends. Don't talk about your wonderful platonic buddy "Sally" who is your jogging partner. Think about it. It's always a turnoff when a woman starts telling you things about some other guy in her life. We don't want to hear about him! Keep the romantic potential of your first date high by keeping the subject of other women out of the conversation.

Disagree again. Definitely do not talk about ex-girlfriends, I'd go along with that. However, women I have been out with know that I have platonic female friends in my life. It seems to have a great effect as it communicates that "I'm a man and women find me attractive, but I have women as friends in my life because I genuinely like them as people". Better she have the impression that you speak with women all the time rather than this is the first time you have properly spoken to one for weeks/months.

Four) Keep the conversation light and positive. So often, men, without thinking and without even knowing what they're doing, lead the conversation into heavy, negative topics. There is no constructive reason for doing this! It's a bummer. It's a bring down. It's not romantic! Let's not talk about terrorism or the SARS epidemic or what a jerk your boss is. Don't recount the details of your last painful breakup. Lay off the heavy subjects

Agreed. Women are generally far more expressive than men also, so if you like her, you'll probably have trouble shutting her up. Don't interrupt and let her finish - listen to what she is saying and construct a response around that. Of course, don't allow yourself to be led in the conversation, but let her have her say.

 

[1hepcat]

Originally posted by Vassago I can't believe anyone would take advice from this guy!

First of all, there is no better way to get a women horny than to talk about sex in a subtle manner and touch her when appropriate. And of course...

You can't have sex without touching!

I'm not saying you should grope all over her on the first date, but everyone knows that.

I could go on and on, but I'm putting myself to sleep here... [/B]

I suppose that works with the stripper chicks but I really don't see it working with a classy, conservative girl. I prefer the latter. But that's kind of how I am. On this one I say the Doc is right, with an exception.

In my experience, not touching is the way to go on the first date, unless:

A. You're dancing. Then, yeah, of course. Same goes for other appropriate situations.

B. She's begging you to touch her. You go to the movies and she snuggles up to you. Obviously you should put your arm around her. If she grabs your hand (it has happened to me before), then yeah, hold her hand.

In most cases, once she touches you a couple of times, I'd say it's o.k. to touch back if you really want to. But if YOU start the touching, and do very much of it, with most girls, they're going to become uncomfortable because you're trying to move things along faster than they should go. Whenever you get pushy, her interest takes a nose dive.


And as far as sex goes, once again, probably works with the stripper chicks, but I wouldn't know because I don't go for the stripper chicks. I never bring up sex on a date.

 

[Vassago]

Who said anything about "stripper chicks"?

Let me add a disclaimer to my post -

"The advice I give is only for those interested in hooking up with women on the first meeting, whether the woman be classy and conservative or sultry and sluty. If you are looking to delay your pleasure, I suggest you check out www.doclove.com."

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn