Do you pay for first date

Atom Smasher

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This subject always sticks in my craw a bit. I don't even know what a craw is, but it feels stuck.

When a man asks a woman out, he pays. What many fail to realize is that paying establishes dominance. You look weak and classless when you vacillate on paying. A man takes charge and pays for the woman who is considering being with him.

Now having said that, it's important after a relationship has been established that you mention (in casual conversation) how you appreciate when a woman pays once in a while, a woman who is willing to "invest" in her relationship in whatever way she can.

If she has class, she will occasionally offer to pay for this or that, and you should accept.

The bottom line is that relationships aren't fair and equal. The man pays because he is the dominant protector and he establishes that by taking care of her. Don't forget, while women have all the power when a relationship is just barely starting out, she is destined to completely submit to you and lose much of that power. The price of her submission and giving herself to you, gentlemen, is that you tickle her where it counts by showing a capacity and willingness to ensure survival.

You are paying a few dollars here and there, and she will be paying her entire life and devotion to you. A fair trade, if you ask me.

Fair in the sense of dollars and cents? No, but fair in the eventual payoff. When a woman submits to you, it is the greatest thing in the world. Does your gut tell you that she will want to submit to a man who is bartering over a few dollars here and there? Or does it tell you that she will submit to a man who simply takes care of business with no payback expected?

You are the one who is resourceful. You are the one who dominates. She is the one who submits to a man who steps up, takes care of business, and doesn't fret about who pays for the first date. You ask her out, you pay. Simple.

Sometimes you just have to look at things as "This is just the way it works", without a concept of fairness. Look down the road for the potential payoff of her devotion to you.

If you ask out a woman who incites a sense of "We should both pay", you are absolutely with the wrong girl. Most men will have no problem paying for a date with a pleasant, feminine and friendly woman.

Remember Anti-Dump? You should only be going out with women who have expressed intense interest in you.

Finally, dinner dates or other expensive dates are never a good idea at first, as many have mentioned. Simple action dates like mini-golf, antiquing, disk golf, any fun activity are the way to go. Buy her a light lunch or a light dinner. It won't kill you and it will establish strength, character and dominance.

My .02.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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Deeper question some of you might want to consider: What type of relationship (whether plate or exclusivity) are you seeking: An
egalitarian (50/50 all the way through) relation or a complementary (masculine/feminine, dominant/submissive) relation?
 

EmotionalGeek

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This subject always sticks in my craw a bit. I don't even know what a craw is, but it feels stuck.

When a man asks a woman out, he pays. What many fail to realize is that paying establishes dominance. You look weak and classless when you vacillate on paying. A man takes charge and pays for the woman who is considering being with him.

Now having said that, it's important after a relationship has been established that you mention (in casual conversation) how you appreciate when a woman pays once in a while, a woman who is willing to "invest" in her relationship in whatever way she can.

If she has class, she will occasionally offer to pay for this or that, and you should accept.

The bottom line is that relationships aren't fair and equal. The man pays because he is the dominant protector and he establishes that by taking care of her. Don't forget, while women have all the power when a relationship is just barely starting out, she is destined to completely submit to you and lose much of that power. The price of her submission and giving herself to you, gentlemen, is that you tickle her where it counts by showing a capacity and willingness to ensure survival.

You are paying a few dollars here and there, and she will be paying her entire life and devotion to you. A fair trade, if you ask me.

Fair in the sense of dollars and cents? No, but fair in the eventual payoff. When a woman submits to you, it is the greatest thing in the world. Does your gut tell you that she will want to submit to a man who is bartering over a few dollars here and there? Or does it tell you that she will submit to a man who simply takes care of business with no payback expected?

You are the one who is resourceful. You are the one who dominates. She is the one who submits to a man who steps up, takes care of business, and doesn't fret about who pays for the first date. You ask her out, you pay. Simple.

Sometimes you just have to look at things as "This is just the way it works", without a concept of fairness. Look down the road for the potential payoff of her devotion to you.

If you ask out a woman who incites a sense of "We should both pay", you are absolutely with the wrong girl. Most men will have no problem paying for a date with a pleasant, feminine and friendly woman.

Remember Anti-Dump? You should only be going out with women who have expressed intense interest in you.

Finally, dinner dates or other expensive dates are never a good idea at first, as many have mentioned. Simple action dates like mini-golf, antiquing, disk golf, any fun activity are the way to go. Buy her a light lunch or a light dinner. It won't kill you and it will establish strength, character and dominance.

My .02.

Many people will tell you that paying won't estabilish frame of dominant male but frame of a provider? How to you avoid becoming provider?

Another question is what is antiquing?
 

Atom Smasher

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That's true, but a man of knowledge offsets the provider role by making her earn or "pay for" things in other ways.

She must work, work, work for your attention.

In fact, my rule of thumb is to always offset kindness with carefully applied pressure and uncertainty.

Antiquing is going around from antique shop to antique shop looking at other people's old trash. Actually antique shops are generally clustered together in areas, and there are tons of opportunities for humor in these places as there are so many different items to look at.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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Many people will tell you that paying won't estabilish frame of dominant male but frame of a provider? How to you avoid becoming provider?

Another question is what is antiquing?
Acts, themselves, have little do with frame. The motivation which prompts the act IS the frame.

When you pay for a date, your intent could operate from a "boss frame" or "obsequious frame." The good news is YOU choose the motivation.

So again, I ask:

What type of relationship (whether plate or exclusivity) do you seek: An egalitarian (50/50 all the way through) relation or a complementary (masculine/feminine, dominant/submissive) relation?
 

EmotionalGeek

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Acts, themselves, have little do with frame. The motivation which prompts the act IS the frame.

When you pay for a date, your intent could operate from a "boss frame" or "obsequious frame." The good news is YOU choose the motivation.

So again, I ask:

What type of relationship (whether plate or exclusivity) do you seek: An egalitarian (50/50 all the way through) relation or a complementary (masculine/feminine, dominant/submissive) relation?

Hmmm... I always tried 50/50 relationship but now I think I more into more dominant one. I do not get the difference though between masculine/femine and dominant/submissive.
 

exhausted

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with new women, here's the deal: on the first date, i usually ask her out, so it's implied that i'll pay. no problem. but during the date, i tell her about my 'rules,' and that during the phase, it's dutch; or if i pay one this time, she pays the next time. when most broads agree to that, it says a lot about their selfish/unselfish vibe.

in an LTR, it's usually 60/40 that i'll pay.
how the hell did u pull off 60/40?
my last ltr almost 3 years i paid prob 90/10, she would buy for my bday
but about two months ago one of the last straws for me was my gf invited me to go see a kid movie with her and her kid, i didnt want to see it it was 2pm on a saturday where clearly i had **** i was doing, so i said yea and when we got there she stalled to wait for me to pay, i thought that was ****ty. i pay for her and her kid all the time i thought no big deal for her to pay 12 bucks all tog for us three with all i do...
nope, she was mad, it was a problem so i said i will pay for myself....wrong again!!! haha
she was heated. of course she was always heated. bipolar by 3 diff dr diagnosis's.
doesnt matter, the man is always wrong.
i wont be able to be married, you have to be beta or just have a great woman which is hard to do, if she isnt you are divorced...
 

Reyaj

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Without going into a theoretical debate on how things "should" be...

Most girls will think you are cheap and be turned off if you don't pay on the first date.
 
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