Do you even bother arguing with women about things like feminism, gender roles, pay gap, etc?

[New_Journey]

Generally I only do it with women I've already banged and don't intend on dating, or, with women who I'm not particularly interested in, so I don't care about that part.

Yeah but then you make threads about women taking longer to reply to you, getting all emotional why they ghost you. If I were a women, I'd run from you, you're completely lost in the dating game bro

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

This is a pretty worthwhile video to watch for most men who enjoy arguing with people in general.

So I watched the video. I think we need to make the distinction between arguing and discussing/discourse.

I think the points about using arguments as a way to validate your ego is accurate. Ultimately, being willing to walk away and not let things escalate into arguments is true, because you don't play into their game. This is something I've practiced for a while, walking away from toxic behaviors. If someone resorts to shaming, insults, straw man, etc I immediately walk away for that reason, because at that point I know the discussion is over and pointless to continue.

What I don't like is the implication that all disagreements lead will lead an argument or that people automatically get emotionally compromised, but sadly in today's age, I think I need to accept that it's just a fact.

I have debates/discussions with my close friends on occasion, and even if we strongly disagree we can "argue" without emotions involved and reach a place of understanding and mutual respect. I had one with two close friends a while back about setting boundaries with women, and despite having an immense disagreement, we were able to keep it civil. When you have a real discussion with someone, in the moment you might not change your mind but you may weeks later, I've done it and I've seen my friends do it too. That is literally what debates are supposed to be. That's how I approach discussion, my goal isn't to argue to be right but to learn something and possibly realize your own beliefs are flawed. You can learn things even from your enemies.

Why can't people just learn how to leave emotions out of the discussion and actually listen to what people say and have a discussion for its own sake? When coffee was introduced in the 17th and 18th centuries and it began to replace alcohol, it led to a "coffeehouse culture" where people had intense debates and it literally led to the Enlightenment era. Why can't people still do this?

These are rhetorical questions btw. Ultimately the why doesn't matter, people in 2024 are the way they are, and if they are not capable of having rational discussions anymore, then don't engage them. So, the only solution is to walk away from them the second they get emotional or unreasonable.

 

[BPH]

No.

 

[BaronOfHair]

In the present-day US , a large percentage of White women* have gone Woke, and well over half of Black women embody the stereotypes about that particular demographic to a T. The former is afflicted with a shortage of curiosity, while the latter are simply f-cking pigs, rather than human beings. Attempting to converse with gals within either of these brackets is thus less gainful than expecting Hollywood to declare a moratorium on remakes anytime soon


*More specifically, lots of White women throughout The English speaking world have gone this

route

 

[SW15]

In fact, "educated" (especially post-grad) "career women" are literally my biggest red flag now. If a women is a workaholic and/or defines herself by her job (unless it's operating her own business, which I actually love and respect a lot) I don't want anything to do with her.

The "career women" group is a difficult group.

The biggest upside that they offer is that they are often childless later into life. Most men struggle to get big age gaps once they get into their 30s/40s. A childless woman 30+ will often be a "career woman". The downside related to this conversation is that they'll often have the leftist ideology.

I think it's a good idea to discuss birth control practices prior to having sex. That isn't realistic in some situations. Same night sex from a nightlife venue approach is not likely to result in a discussion of birth control practices. Additionally, first date sex (either from an app arranged first date or a real life arranged first date) isn't likely to result in a birth control discussion either.

Prior? Sure, if you can do it without killing sexual tension.

It can be done and it doesn't have to kill any sexual tension. I've done it. I don't recall this forum ever having a specific thread on it.

If a man follows Iron Rule of Tomassi #5 (always use protection), he doesn't need to have this conversation. He will use a condom at the appropriate time. I do like the idea of knowing if a woman is on birth control prior to sex, but it matters less if the man uses condoms in every sexual instance as I do.

 

[zekko]

Generally speaking, I don't like to talk politics. On the other hand, there is a saying: All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. If you never push back against this stuff, don't complain when it has sprung up all around you like weeds.

 

[RangerMIke]

Never argue. It's a waste of time. As soon as someone starts into some position I disagree with, I will state what I think and end it with "I do not believe I can change you mine: you certainly are not going to change mine. So let's change the subject." If they keep arguing, I just politely excuse myself and walk away.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Generally speaking, I don't like to talk politics. On the other hand, there is a saying: All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. If you never push back against this stuff, don't complain when it has sprung up all around you like weeds.

I don't specifically talk about "politics" either, but about individual issues, almost all of which have become so incredibly politicized that everyones knee-jerk reaction is, if you believe x, you must be y, without considering that the other party may agree on most other issues.

On the other hand, there is a saying: All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. If you never push back against this stuff, don't complain when it has sprung up all around you like weeds.

Exactly. This cultivated "passivity" and indifference based on the idea that you should let people do and believe what they want as it doesn't effect you is just unfounded imo. Another relevant quote: "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."

But...this doesn't apply to women, and it especially does not apply to romantic/sexual interests...this only applies for discourse that men have with other men.

Never argue. It's a waste of time. As soon as someone starts into some position I disagree with, I will state what I think and end it with "I do not believe I can change you mine: you certainly are not going to change mine. So let's change the subject." If they keep arguing, I just politely excuse myself and walk away.

That's a good approach for sure and I think I'll use my own version of this from now on.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I don’t argue with women; there’s nothing less attractive than that.

However, recently, I’ve heard many complaints about working with female bosses. Some say things like, “I can’t work with my woman boss,” or “I will never work for a woman boss”. Another one is that “my woman boss is being difficult, and I can’t fix the situation. Men have it easier because they can go to a bar, drink, and let off steam and everything will be fine after that”.

I haven’t heard anything about feminism or that other stuff though.

 

[plumber]

does not make sense to bring a topic like that with a woman, that would put her on defense.

if she brings the topic, you will decide what your goals are with her and then respond as needed.

remember, do you really care if she has a different opinion than you?

 

[zekko]

Exactly. This cultivated "passivity" and indifference based on the idea that you should let people do and believe what they want as it doesn't effect you is just unfounded imo. Another relevant quote: "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."

But...this doesn't apply to women, and it especially does not apply to romantic/sexual interests...this only applies for discourse that men have with other men.

That's an interesting quote, I haven't heard that one before.

Funny, but I wasn't even thinking about this topic as it applies to romantic interests. Chances are, if a woman is a diehard feminist, I'm not going to be involved with her. The PUA community has always advocated using such flawed women for sex only, but honestly I'd rather just keep them out of my life altogether.

 

[SW15]

The PUA community has always advocated using such flawed women for sex only, but honestly I'd rather just keep them out of my life altogether.

Some PUAs with a stronger 'Thrill of the Hunt' orientation will use leftist/feminists for sex. These PUAs are often the most motivated by conquest and notch counts.

PUAs less oriented around hunting tend to want sex with less aggravation. Those types of men will avoid those women because they don't want the aggravation.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

If someone wants my effort and attention to be put in an discussion with them, they definitely have to deserve it.

Many girls I dated and still deal with are pissed off beyond redemption to the fact that I show total disinterest in arguing or convince them of anything..

Most of them generally get and agree and amplify like being told that yes women are paid 70 cents over a dollar but with some effort we're trying to lower it to 50 to save the environment or some other nonsense that mixes different bs they love so much.

Last week I told an old far woman at the bank that I leave the sink open to make sure as many africans as possible remains without water so they dont come to Europe illegally cause they cant fill their bottles for the trip.

 

[The Duke]

I try not to associate with women that are worried about gender roles, pay gaps, and feminism. Nothing says I am combative, self centered, out of touch biatch like a woman that starts talking this schitt.

You guys know there are women out there that think feminists are equivalent to Nazi's. They like cooking, submitting, and want the man to run the show. I have little use for one that isnt.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I try not to associate with women that are worried about gender roles, pay gaps, and feminism. Nothing says I am combative, self centered, out of touch biatch like a woman that starts talking this schitt.

You guys know there are women out there that think feminists are equivalent to Nazi's. They like cooking, submitting, and want the man to run the show. I have little use for one that isnt.

Some woman recently repeatedly attempted to bait me into talking about "women's rights". I avoided even commenting on it but she kept bringing it up and literally said "if that's not important to you, then nice talking to you", as if to preemptively disqualify me before I even responded. So I sent a short response that said "I support abortion but don't think it should be 'carte blanche' unless men are given the right to abandon their child without fear of financial responsibility from the courts". She did not like that response, so she responded with an emotional mischaracterization of my view, insulted me, then immediately blocked me so she could have the last word.

I obviously should have just stopped talking to her the moment she even brought it up, but I continually underestimate how delusional and hysterical femininst are and how allergic they are logic and reason. The problem is I have dated lefty/feminist women before who never argued or got hysterical but simply acknowledged my points and then we moved on. So it's hard to know how hysterical and unreasonable they're going to be about such topics.

 

[SW15]

I try not to associate with women that are worried about gender roles, pay gaps, and feminism. Nothing says I am combative, self centered, out of touch biatch like a woman that starts talking this schitt.

You're right.

On swipe apps, there are women who tell on themselves first, saving you time. There are women who will discuss their left wing ideologies in their profiles. Those are women who are best avoided.

When meeting women in real life, it's less common that a woman will be as upfront about her left wing ideology. It might require talking to her for a bit before she reveals her left wing ideology. It won't often come up in the initial 5-10 minute approach, but it is likely to come up on Date 1 or Date 2.

 

[davidsonj73]

No. I don't bother arguing with women about those topics.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Some woman recently repeatedly attempted to bait me into talking about "women's rights"

Tell them you prefer the term 'human rights' because all of humanity should have rights, regardless of gender.

Then bring the conversation back on Amber Heard being a psychopath.