Do the "experts" ever demonstrate what they preach?

[Jariel]

Has anybody ever seen David DeAngelo, Ross Jeffries, Mystery or any of the other so-called "seduction masters" demonstrate their teaching in an unplanned scenario?

I have seen a TV show called "Would like to meet" with Tracey Cox, where she gives flirting and seduction advice, they record her students in the field or on a date and she gives her commentary on what he/she is doing and what he/she did right or wrong etc.

Surely this format would be perfect for all seduction masters to demonstrate what they preach, show us how it's done and to prove their stuff works in the field.

The only video demonstrations I have seen were from some guys on mASF doing approaches, but the videos just showed the guys failing miserably and getting rejected.

I mean, Jeffries and DeAngelo are making videos and DVDs, but all these contain is theory. If their stuff is so great, why don't they show it working?

Maybe someone on this board can correct me and point me to some videos of this stuff working. I'd be interested to see it for sure.

 

[squirrels]

I saw a video on the Internet of Ross Jeffries on a talk show trying to pull NLP on some chick.

It was good for a laugh.

 

[TedJustAdmitIt]

I think there was somebody...perhaps Avon...posted about something on tele with The London Seduction Society showing off their "skills" at a speed dating thingy a while back.

Wasn't exactly the best advert for the seduction community from what I remember.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Wasn't Mystery written up in some woman's magazine a few months ago? I think the female reporter which interviewed him over a few days began falling for him herself. It was a interesting read.

 

[Lomi]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
Wasn't Mystery written up in some woman's magazine a few months ago? I think the female reporter which interviewed him over a few days began falling for him herself. It was a interesting read.

You have to link us man, it's no fair to dangle something like that in our face .

 

[Spirit Fingers]

You bring up a very good point. I would be very wary of guys who talk a lot of theory, but aren't able to demonstrate their **** in the real world. First, because often these seminar "experts" are full of sh!t. Secondly, because the most important part of teaching is being shown how to do something. Being told how to do something often doesn't help. It's like if you want to learn martial arts, it won't do much good to go to a martial arts "seminar." You gotta have someone teach it to you.

Every workshop program out there demonstrates their **** in the real world. One thing to beware of with workhshop demonstrations though, is flash game. This is when an instructor uses high-energy teasing, backturns, pretending he's gay, etc. to entertain the girl into giggling and touching him. It looks like he's a pimp, but actually he's just the girl's entertaining dancing monkey. There are many workshop programs which can drastically improve your life, as well as many which are scams. Do your homework and read all the reviews before you decide which workshop program to take.

-Dan

 

[Smooth Player 056]

I cant afford to tape myself using my routines and seduction techniques, but I have taped A LOT of my recent approaches on a regular recorder that i leave on in my pocket. LOL one time i didnt realize it was on at the end of the tape and it started clicking durring an approach.....couldnt get out of there fast enough lol.



- Smooth Player 056 -
Founder and Creator of the HSDJBC/ Contest
Founder of Ultimate HSDJ Technique

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Lomi
You have to link us man, it's no fair to dangle something like that in our face .

You guys had better be d@mn glad that I have my computer indexed like a mo-fo....

Here it is...

 

[everywomanshero]

Again

That is why I suggest a Don Juan Convention. We need to try this stuff ourselves and operate on our own. I think if we wait for all the answers to be handed down from some Jedi Master, we'll die of old age first.

This site is choke full of theory. There is a little, if any, clinical analysis or controlled studies to base an informed opinion on. I agree with a lot of the theory, but I am the kind of guy who likes to see some proof.

 

[Jariel]

It's strange to me because if they could demonstrate their methods being successful, this would send their sales and credibility sky high! So why don't they?

I'm not running down or doubting all PUAs/DJs etc, but I'm starting to think that those who have success using such methods are successful in spite of them, not because of them.

I suppose it's getting quite obvious now that I'm very sceptical about many of these seduction guru figures. Well, I'm seeing great business expertise, but no proof of their product working, not even when trying it for myself.

I'm also very suspicious and cynical when I look at their target market: low self-esteem, lonely, rejected and desperate men. The same kind of qualities cult leaders look for! And not unlike cults, this seduction stuff requires a lot of blind faith. We have no proof, yet we're expected to embrace and trust the gurus' word. I even recall DeAngelo and Jeffries verbally attack and undermine people at their seminars who bring up doubts. It's quite scary when you think about it.

 

[AsianPlayboy]

I hung out with almost all the true gurus and experts in the community. Their skill levels vary, but they do demonstrate and they do have skillz. The three main niche camps (beyond DYD) are Mystery, TylerDurden, and Badboy/Shark/TheOne.

All are good, in real life.

As far as I know, RJ and DYD are full of SH.IT because they cannot demonstrate and consistently pick up. At least David D will TRY, but RJ has never successfully demonstrated a pick up in real life. TO ANYONE.

 

[strong like bull]

eh...

make your life great. focus on being great in everything BUT women. women will come to you.

attraction, romance, lust, passion, sex, sensuality... its all natural. this is LIFE. NOT a playstation game. there is no secret code that'll make a chick horny for you. even the "masters" of seduction arent 100% successful. with all their studying of women, all their formulas, all their scripts, they still fall victim to the fact that its all NATURAL and no matter how many secret dj codes you NLP into her mind, theres a good chance she JUST WONT LIKE YOU.

dont get me wrong. i love chasing women. i love touching, smelling and tasting them. i love being inside them. but its real easy to fall into the trap of

"if only i could get this girl to want me... everything else will be okay"

or

"if i can get 100 numbers this week and sleep with x amount of girls by friday, then i'll finally be cool"

if you sit back and just read posts... after a while you pick up on a trend. most of the unsuccessful people are insecure and looking for the quick fix.

instead of making THEIR life grand, they want to focus on how to make themselves so prettied up and attractive for some girls. instead of going out and LIVING LIFE, they want to huddle around and intellectualize everything. make everything scientific and logical. break down the code so they know how to write successful programs to get women.

but while theyre wasting their life away, the successful "DJs" are out speeding around on jetskis off the coast of Mexico with beautiful women.

and i bet you those DJs didnt get successful because some guy with painted nails showed him a list of steps to get in a womans panties. its because the aspiring DJ threw his fvcking computer through the window, went outside in the sunlight, and make something of himself. they stopped going in circles with theory and intellectual babble. they took ACTION. they took RISKS. they found passion, conjured goals and had the determination to make it REAL.

read all the theories you want. STUDY! but take action! at some point you have to take action. put the text-books away, grab your balls, run outside and do something great.

-SLB

 

[diplomatic_lies]

I use a simple method to determine whether these "experts" are giving good advice.

I take their advice, and try it out. If it works, it works. If not, then tough noogies.


Seriously though, I think the idea of putting all your faith in one expert is not a good thing. You want to get ideas from everyone, but develop your own style (which should work, hopefully).

 

[snintel]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
You guys had better be d@mn glad that I have my computer indexed like a mo-fo....

Here it is...

UGH... These guys ***** themselves out. They are all pretty weird dudes too.

 

[Joe The Homophobe]

Originally posted by Spirit Fingers
You bring up a very good point. I would be very wary of guys who talk a lot of theory, but aren't able to demonstrate their **** in the real world.

Like Pook??

 

[everywomanshero]

Personal

I had a massive surge in success after I started using the stuff from Ron and David. I didn't bother with the mastery series, but did obtain a copy of "How to talk to women". This stuff seemed to work well for me. Anthony Robbins Personal Power series did more for me than anything else I've tried.

I have not tried most of the material floating around. These are just two programs which appear to have been beneficial for me. I am trying to conduct better studies to prove which techniques work. It will take a long time to have any sort of empirical evidence to base decisions on.

 

[So pimp its scary]

Jariel, I like this post. I can tell that you haven't even started to try this stuff because you're scared that it's all a con, or fake or whatever.

I also saw those mASF videos, and they were kinda funny... everytime they saw that it wasn't gonna work out, they default to the "You wanna fvck?" approach... They do have some good pieces of info, and they even point out some of the IOI's... actually, even one that I hadn't even known existed before, but when they mentioned it it made sense (too long to describe body language, so don't ask).

Since I've only seen the Davd D's DVD series, he's the only one that I can talk about. To me, he came across as the most credible of all of the other 'masters' (who BTW mostly start off as AFC's). Watching that DVD series, you can clearly see that he know's what he's talking about, because he doesn't instantly talk about 'How to pick up women' but rather explaining everything that is going on behind the scenes; from the genetics, socialization, human interactions, and the psychology of the game.

Whether or not he practises what he preaches, I could give two shyts about... and here's why.

The SHYT WORKS!!!

Now, I'm by no means a master, but to go from a point of not a single date or even a phone number off a girl for over 3 years... to having 4 different girls that call me on a regular basis trying to maintain my interest (Not to mention the 3 other girls that I'm lining up dates for in the coming week or two).

All that from paying attention, applying it all IN MY OWN WAY, getting feedback (rejections, etc) and changing what needs to be changed.

The thing is, despite all the changes that I've made it was all fine-tuning my attitude and personality based on the traits that they mention.

AND THAT"S without making me into some cookie cutter mould of what a 'PUA' is.

Now, I could bring you out one night to go sarging, and you might consider calling bullshyt on me depending on how the night goes... but then all of a sudden you'll look over and I'll be gone chatting up some cutie... but I wouldn't make that sort of guarantee.

 

[Jariel]

Originally posted by So pimp its scary
Jariel, I like this post. I can tell that you haven't even started to try this stuff because you're scared that it's all a con, or fake or whatever.

Well I never paid for it, but I have tried it for myself and it actually made things worse for me. I tried Speed Seduction and girls were freaked out by it. I tried C+F and neghits and after a while girls started to see me as arrogant and obnoxious. I applied almost everything DYD suggests and even some mASF stuff, but I actually had girls tell me outright I seem "fake" or ask "why are you being weird?"

I strongly believe that all you really need to improve your success with women is value and confidence. Techniques, strategies and everything else is just surplus mental clutter.

 

[Wiesman44]

I think Jariel hit it right on the head here. Strategies and techniques might help for getting a 2nd date, or getting laid, but in the long run, thats not your real personality. Your real personality will show forth sooner or later. But hey......it never hurt to memorize a pattern or two from http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/ .

I like to call these strategies and techniques "short-term fixes".

I think the dj bible is the best help your going to find out there on the internet. Pook's articles show one main thing: confidence. U should have a surge in confidence after reading that......i sure did a while back.

 

[So pimp its scary]

Jariel, If you had the DVD set (I think the mastery series is the same thing in mp3 form??), I would go back to the first and second discs and really pay attention to these parts. This is the part that you missed, the core of WHY things are working the way they are.

Speed seduction, I seriously would wager that it is a crock of shyt (Unless you have a gf, and you use that STYLE of communicatation, because that turns a girl on real good... I've used those lines, but only on a girl that I was dating already because I figured that if it did come out goofy I could just play it off. "That's cheezy' "Ya I know").

I really am glad that you are out trying these things... that is the first step. Going out and actively trying to find what works and what doesnt. The honest to goodness truth in all of this is, untill you make some friends that are good with ladies, you'll be relying heavily on the trial and error.

You did point out another issue though,

but I actually had girls tell me outright I seem "fake" or ask "why are you being weird?"

This screams out to me that what you are lacking, more than confidence, and value... you are lacking in congruency. Simply meaning that while your words are showing confidence and value, your body language screams out 'Insecurity and low value'. This is something you can work on. Believe me, I used to be the most awkward of computer nerds... But I had approached the ideas on this site from the angle of 'this is something that I have to master, it will take me time, but it must be mastered.'
(BTW, I still have a fair way to go before mastery)

Also, that quote tells me that you are takin only the techniques themselves and thinking that is the whole thing. That is like going scuba diving, getting into the rubber suit, having the mouthpiece in place, and diving in without AIR IN the AIR TANKS!! Now, if you didn't develop the guage to tell you that there was no air in the tank... all that you would be able to say is "Scuba diving doesn't work because I can't breathe underwater"

Simply put, the techniques is all you're gear, but the air tank (attitude, etc) holds everything together so that you can successfuly dive.

I can't speak for the rest of them, but I know that DD does cover all of the core attitudes to develop.

You also brought up the point of mental clutter... this stage is important. I know I had to do this for a while, remind myself that eye contact is important, relax, have fun, don't worry about the outcome, etc... I really did come into this like a scientist studying behavior, now I had to learn all these things consciously before I was able to drop it into the subconscious to use the information congruently.

Wiesman -

You're absoulutely right, that the strategies and techniques won't work without the base, what is referred to as the inner-game.