Dean Gladwyn
Don Juan
As the title states, do nice guys really finish last?
Do nice guys really finish last?
- Thread starter Dean Gladwyn
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devilkingx2
Master Don Juan
Depends on how you define nice guy.
If you mean guys who let themselves get friendzoned or used by women and think the red pill is misogyny, then yes.
If you mean guys who have a sense of honor and don't stoop to the lowest levels like cheating on their girlfriend with her sister and her BFF, then no.
If you mean guys who let themselves get friendzoned or used by women and think the red pill is misogyny, then yes.
If you mean guys who have a sense of honor and don't stoop to the lowest levels like cheating on their girlfriend with her sister and her BFF, then no.
Serenity
Moderator
It shouldn't be taken literally, the point is that nice guys don't possess qualities that makes them attractive. More desirable men unsurprisingly get with most of the women earlier in life, some of those men are a bit too much of an assh0le and the women who got burnt might seek a nice guy later in life. So yes, nice guys finish last. However, nice guys are usually very immature and in fact often turns out to just be a different kind of assh0le, so define "finish"...
AureliusMaximus
Master Don Juan
There is a difference between a "Nice guys" and "Good men".
Nice guys are just nice because they think the will get sex because they are so nice which women consider creepy. So they finish last.
On the other hand there is the good men which are honerable men that have high standards and expectations, they are high value guys, (Yes "chads" too if you want to use that term), they are respectable people that treat women (and men) respectfully and keep them accountable for their actions and are leaders of their community and their GF.
As such women want them and do not consider them creepy.
Mike32ct
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Yes. Women don’t find them sexually attractive (enough).
They are too passive/laid back in terms of making their interest known and escalating, and/or they don’t have a masculine enough “vibe” to turn her on.
And unfortunately they typically don’t have enough looks to compensate for the above.
Unattractive guy who is too assertive => creep
Unattractive guy who is too passive => nice guy
They are too passive/laid back in terms of making their interest known and escalating, and/or they don’t have a masculine enough “vibe” to turn her on.
And unfortunately they typically don’t have enough looks to compensate for the above.
Unattractive guy who is too assertive => creep
Unattractive guy who is too passive => nice guy
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BackInTheGame78
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It depends...there is nothing wrong with being nice in general. There is everything wrong with being nice as a manipulation tactic to try and get a woman to "owe" you something by being overly nice to her. Or by being overly agreeable in hoping she will like you more.
Both manipulation tactics and both make you look weak, fake and like a doormat.
But being nice with a backbone usually works out in your favor pretty well.
Mike32ct
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The bad boy isn’t always Mr. honesty. He might string her along (e.g. lie by omission) by making her believe that he’s up for a relationship, even if he just wants sex. But she’s more forgiving of his deceit (if any) than the nice guy’s because the bad boy is typically better looking, and the sex is really good.
I just wanted to clear that up. Yes, the nice guy does have some dishonest/manipulative tactics.* No question. But sometimes women (or bad boys) will overly harp on this in a self-serving sort of way. For her, it’s to dance around the looks issue and avoid appearing “shallow.” For him, it’s to point the finger elsewhere lol.
*Although in many cases he’s just secretly in love with her and doesn’t mean any harm. He just has a really poor, ineffective game plan.
I just wanted to clear that up. Yes, the nice guy does have some dishonest/manipulative tactics.* No question. But sometimes women (or bad boys) will overly harp on this in a self-serving sort of way. For her, it’s to dance around the looks issue and avoid appearing “shallow.” For him, it’s to point the finger elsewhere lol.
*Although in many cases he’s just secretly in love with her and doesn’t mean any harm. He just has a really poor, ineffective game plan.
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BackInTheGame78
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There are plenty of not so great looking bad boys and very good looking nice guys...
The overall theme is the "bad boy" cares more about himself and will not kiss her ass to try and get her into bed while the nice guy cares more about her and all he does is try to kiss her ass to get her into bed...
As the saying goes, hungry mouths don't get fed.
Mike32ct
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How to Be the Jerk Women Love by FJ Shark is pretty good read.
It contains a quote very similar to that saying.
Pierce Manhammer
Moderator
Personally I make sure she finishes first. And I’m nice.
thermodynamic
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Girls will "reserve" a guy that seems like "marriage material" and keep in touch with him for when they want to pull a gold digger.
I wouldn't say nice guys finish last. I’ve dealt with nice guys in business who have hot wives and a few children. I recall in high school the the sexiest guy who all the girls loved was the nicest guy. Why? Because he treated the uncool guys with respect.
I would say short or guys losing their hair finish last. Girls really care about the things the man can’t change genetically.
I would say short or guys losing their hair finish last. Girls really care about the things the man can’t change genetically.
Pierce Manhammer
Moderator
Depends on the definition of nice guy frankly. Dr. Daniel Glover has a book called “no more mr nice guy”, may be worth a read. It’s a Amazon audio book too.
Who's nice?
A guy sees a girl that is attractive. He wants something from her ...sex. It's in his biology. She wants something from him. She wants him to be a cool, confident guy. A guy comes up to her and bores her with bland questions. Where are you from? Where do you go to school? What your favorite movie? blah blah blah. He's not being nice. He wants sex. But he's not giving her what she wants.
I see a guy with the latest apple I phone. I want it. I can go up to the guy and grab his phone and make a run for it. OR I can offer cash. Who's nice in this situation? If I grab it, I am taking something I want and giving nothing in returns.
Girls want you to be a cool, confident guy. It's what they NEED. If you are acting all shy and nice around them you are just doing that because it feels better to YOU.
So who's being nice?
A guy sees a girl that is attractive. He wants something from her ...sex. It's in his biology. She wants something from him. She wants him to be a cool, confident guy. A guy comes up to her and bores her with bland questions. Where are you from? Where do you go to school? What your favorite movie? blah blah blah. He's not being nice. He wants sex. But he's not giving her what she wants.
I see a guy with the latest apple I phone. I want it. I can go up to the guy and grab his phone and make a run for it. OR I can offer cash. Who's nice in this situation? If I grab it, I am taking something I want and giving nothing in returns.
Girls want you to be a cool, confident guy. It's what they NEED. If you are acting all shy and nice around them you are just doing that because it feels better to YOU.
So who's being nice?
AureliusMaximus
Master Don Juan
*******s probably wont be 'winning' for long imo.
People need to understand that the game only really began 30years ago which is a really short time given we are talking about mating which is one of the most central relationships for humans and one that can define and affect every other area of our lives.
Badboys/Jerk vs Nice Guy (just like the friendzone) were concepts and topics that were more relevant when the dating market was much more undeveloped so we had these concepts and experiences. But there were reasons why Badboys got the girl or 'nice guys' got nothing.
But times change and the market has changed. Friendzone seems to be less of an issue now as I barely hear about it online whereas 20 years it came up much more often. Dynamics have moved on. Similarly for the nicee guy vs ******* concept, guys are not as polarised these days and it seems to me that girls are not getting 'burned' by jerks as was the common trope 20years ago.
All of this is the maturation of the dating market. It should be understood that 'dating' ie bf/gf, freedom in relationships ie THE GAME is a very new thing as before that there was just arranged marriages or getting married young from your social group or whatever so dating and this 'market' really only began like 30 years ago in this currrent form.
Women were pretty stupid imo to rate 'badboys' and I do think that was more of a cultural thing. Balance ofcourse is key and the balanced guy will dominate over both but badboys/jerks/*******s are gonna be out of fashion pretty soon cos those types cause a lot of problems and really bring no value to anyone.
Balance and completeness is key to THE GAME.
People need to understand that the game only really began 30years ago which is a really short time given we are talking about mating which is one of the most central relationships for humans and one that can define and affect every other area of our lives.
Badboys/Jerk vs Nice Guy (just like the friendzone) were concepts and topics that were more relevant when the dating market was much more undeveloped so we had these concepts and experiences. But there were reasons why Badboys got the girl or 'nice guys' got nothing.
But times change and the market has changed. Friendzone seems to be less of an issue now as I barely hear about it online whereas 20 years it came up much more often. Dynamics have moved on. Similarly for the nicee guy vs ******* concept, guys are not as polarised these days and it seems to me that girls are not getting 'burned' by jerks as was the common trope 20years ago.
All of this is the maturation of the dating market. It should be understood that 'dating' ie bf/gf, freedom in relationships ie THE GAME is a very new thing as before that there was just arranged marriages or getting married young from your social group or whatever so dating and this 'market' really only began like 30 years ago in this currrent form.
Women were pretty stupid imo to rate 'badboys' and I do think that was more of a cultural thing. Balance ofcourse is key and the balanced guy will dominate over both but badboys/jerks/*******s are gonna be out of fashion pretty soon cos those types cause a lot of problems and really bring no value to anyone.
Balance and completeness is key to THE GAME.
All due respect but no way.
Badboys will always get the girl over the nice guy and this aint ever gonna change.
It's not that girls like badboys themselves, it's just that badboys show more qualities they are looking for, independence, non-neediness, confidence and assertiveness.
Bad boys prove these qualities using classic game..eye contact, teasing, role reversal, ignoring.
What does a nice guy do to prove his confidence and non neediness?
Yes there are fewer guys getting friendzoned but a lot of that has to do with nice guys disappearing from the market altogether. There's way more single dudes in their 20's than there were even 10 years ago. A lot of that is due lack of confidence built around online and social media dating that heavily weighs in on the top 10% of dudes.
I dont know about that. At the end of the day women value 'balanced' and complete men over badboys and ofcourse typical 'nice guys' will not get a look in but as you noted (because men have made adjustments) we dont see as many 'nice guys' these days.
Back in the day 'badboys' and jerks had a lot of appeal mostly due to their mystery and whatever social and cultural issues were at play at the time. Since then, women ofcourse have realised that these badboys havent really delivered much and its been like 20 years so now the younger girls if they are gonna have a bf I think they are going for balanced guys who have some social value.
In reality the badboy/jerk and the nice guy were really two extremes and I think the market is going towards more balance and I guess it is also true of badboys like nice guys that there seem to be far fewer of them around compared to 20 years ago.
Women are pretty confident these days and even younger girls have more solidarity and social abilities to the point I really do think ALL men have been humbled and are losing inc the badboy/player/jerk. I think the badboy just transitioned into the ****boi or casual sex guy who women just use and then discard but dont get their feelings involved.
Back in the day 'badboys' and jerks had a lot of appeal mostly due to their mystery and whatever social and cultural issues were at play at the time. Since then, women ofcourse have realised that these badboys havent really delivered much and its been like 20 years so now the younger girls if they are gonna have a bf I think they are going for balanced guys who have some social value.
In reality the badboy/jerk and the nice guy were really two extremes and I think the market is going towards more balance and I guess it is also true of badboys like nice guys that there seem to be far fewer of them around compared to 20 years ago.
Women are pretty confident these days and even younger girls have more solidarity and social abilities to the point I really do think ALL men have been humbled and are losing inc the badboy/player/jerk. I think the badboy just transitioned into the ****boi or casual sex guy who women just use and then discard but dont get their feelings involved.