Do I have a "passiveness" problem?

[Phyzzle]

You've gotta work on your sneer. Give the evil eye without yelling.

 

[joekerr31]

You've gotta work on your sneer. Give the evil eye without yelling.

100% agree. i never yell. but i will stare a woman down and say 'you've got to be f*cking joking me?" in a very authoritarian voice.

99% of the time they realize that if they keep pushing the big dog is going to bite.

a barking dog might be annoying, but a tensed up dog that is showing its teeth and staring you down is 10 times scarier.

 

[KarmaSutra]

KARMIC LAW #30 - Live your life as if your Father is dead.

This is probably my second favorite Law. Living as if your Father is dead puts your life in your hands and makes you accountable for the decisions you make and also has the added benefit of keeping your thoughts and feelings directed solely toward your own development. You're not basing decisions on whether or not your Father would approve.

I think this has quite a bit to do with brother Jeepers underlying passivity. His Father was overbearing and demonstrative towards him so he learned to internalize his angst, to bury those feelings which, he would deem unapproved by his Male paradigm.

The only remedy is to completely forgive his Father for his inability to teach his son how to externalize his efforts and creatively tune himself towards his passions then take complete control of his own decision making and Boundary Respect.

 

[MikeYikes122]

Jeeper, it's good that these guys are all helping you and that you're having a lot of revelations, but I think you should be careful with this thread. None of these guys know you, and there is a lot of really deep analysis coming out of some of these responses. It's gotten to the point a couple of times where I don't even think I would accept this type of psychological analysis from some of my closest friends.

One of the biggest downsides of this message board is some of the pseudo-psychology that can develop from time to time. I'm not bashing anyone who has responded because I think we all can fall into that trap occasionally when writing posts on here. But there is some seriously deep discussion going on in this thread. Maybe you should ask a close friend for an opinion as well?

I'm only bringing this up because you basically described me in the original post you made, and none of what anyone has said has even come close to applying to me. We're two completely different people, but the point I am trying to make is, it's tough to get an idea of who someone is completely from a 500- or 600-word message board post.

 

[jophil28]

I guess I would feel like less of a man if I threw a fit and yelled at her as opposed to feeling like less of a man that she cheated on me.
.

I guess I'm just messed up.

NO you are not messed up at all- your INDIFFERENCE (at least she will see it that way) keeps you in charge of the situation and it pops her balloon..
Imagine for a moment the impact that you had on her when she told you that she had cheated and you kept right on playing that game.
She had gone to all that trouble of hoovering some innocent sap into her tacky game, she set him up to be the 'other guy' so that she could play the jeaousy card with you hoping that you would got off like a firecracker ( apparently this is seen as an indication of love and affection in womanland ).
So you just sit in front of your screen and stay calm - excellent !
SHe would have been totally deflated and as mad as a hornet at your indifference. Well done !

Read some of STR*UPs posts about "walking away" before you condemn yourself for being emotionaless.
Most of us mature men struggle to keep our cool with women who mindfvck us - you seem to do it easily.

 

[JeeperCane]

Well, again guys, I don't know any of you and MikeYikes is right, I should be careful with it, but I wanted the opinion of complete strangers this time rather then my friends. I have about 7 extremely close friends who I went to HS and college with. However, of those 7, three are married (all under 28...one has two kids already), two are in serious relationships, one are rich enough to never really have to worry about anything and one is a German Shepard. They all are basically owned by their gf's and while they are still my boys, they think I really don't get to see any of them all that much save for the rich guy and the dog (who is owned by one of the married dudes and I dogsit him when they go away....he wingmans me at the park, it's awesome).

If you guys knew me, you'd see a 26 year old Sr. Financial Analyst who is usually in bed by 11pm, doesn't drink that much, works out a bit and isn't really a DJ; but compared to my friends, I guess my ability to move from girl to girl .....if you could call it an ability.....makes me far different from them. None of them could give me advice on this issue because they're really nothing like me. I've known them for years and have been in all three weddings, but also have far more "experience" with a variety of women.

I don't take everything all of you have said 100% to heart, but I think there are some very good points made. I appreciate, so very much, the time, effort and thoughtfulness you all have put into your responses. I have had many of the same thoughts regarding myself, but really haven't thought I was correct. I know that sounds silly saying "I'm not sure what I thought about myself was correct", but truth-be-told, that's how I felt.

One point I realize I should have made earlier in regards to the cheating talk, was that this was separate from the breakup talk. She told me she kissed another guy and swears that was it. I was playing COD4 and it really didn't get me all that steamed. I didn't know what to say, so more or less just asked her why? She said she wanted to see if someone else desired her still. To be honest, when I read posts about guys saying they caught their gf's cheating, it has a weird effect on me. I actually get turned on by the thought of any of my ex's having sex. I don't know why.......I guess that's a bad thing to have happen. After she told me, I went over to her place, was calm, didn't yell or anything, talked to her, banged her and went home. Not yelling probably gave her the idea that it was OK and I'm sure she did it again, then decided to break up with me.

When she told me she wanted to break up, we had a talk and I was more emotional then I usually am. I welled up some, but I cut off contact last week after another call from her and one from me. Ignored a voice mail and a few text's. I haven't spoken to her in eight days or so and I'll be going home to New York for Christmas to visit family, she's going to LA because her grandmother is nearing the end (sadly). I also closed that stupid MySpace crap she made me sign up for but I stayed on The Facebook because there are a few cute girls from my old job that all messaged me for drinks the day after I changed my profile to single and wiped all her pics off of it. I hate those sites, but never realized how much chicks love them and how many of them contacted me of late.

I'm not void of emotion, she knows I was pretty upset when she broke up with me, but I'm not going to make it a long, drawn out thing. I basically wiped her clean after a few days and got two number last week, so I'm headed in the right direction.

 

[guru1000]

guru I think your post is of a great perspective, but I actually think that's what most of the problems are in relationships and really why people get hurt, cheated on, divorced, etc.

When you try to control anybody BUT yourself, you become non-human and more robotic of some sorts, you *think* you are the ultimate ruler but instead you are just the one being ruled.

A true free person only seeks to control "his world" women aren't your property nor are they your world. I believe that the best success you have with women is when you "aren't trying to control them."

Instead you are controlling your positive mind, your view of the world, your feelings, and having a great time. Women want to be apart of your world at that point NOT because you are controlling them, but instead because when they are with YOU the "controls" put on them COME OFF.

Society, parents, friends, media, etc. all want to control people. The most enjoyable people are those who don't seek to control you, they are just existing and enjoying their space, you come to them to enjoy in the enjoyment of just existing.

Don't get me wrong, you should have a "I'll walk away" from disrespect attitude but don't be so internally focused on looking for "trouble." I would instead stay in a joking mentality, enjoying the space, and if "disrespect" arises I typically would laugh it off and continue my enjoying of the space (in other words, I'm focusing on Controlling myself)

YES, the only thing you can control is yourself. However, women need to be lead and directed. Thay need to be given RULES to follow. There needs to be consequences for disrespectful behavior. Wrong behavior cannot be laughed off. It must be addressed.

For a healthy relationship with a woman, you must be of higher value.
If you don't take control and lead, the outcome will be the same as Jeepers.

When I say control, I dont mean you say "Hey bit**, stand over there." Control to me means to LEAD AND DIRECT thus taking control.

Another thing you said is "Trying to control them". If you TRY to control, you might as well hang up your gloves. YOU MUST LEAD AND DIRECT. YOU MUST TAKE CONTROL. If you do not , she will direct you (Your typical AFC marriage). You make the choice.

 

[Mr.Positive]

YES, the only thing you can control is yourself. However, women need to be lead and directed. Thay need to be given RULES to follow. There needs to be consequences for disrespectful behavior. Wrong behavior cannot be laughed off. It must be addressed.

For a healthy relationship with a woman, you must be of higher value.
If you don't take control and lead, the outcome will be the same as Jeepers.

When I say control, I dont mean you say "Hey bit**, stand over there." Control to me means to LEAD AND DIRECT thus taking control.

Another thing you said is "Trying to control them". If you TRY to control, you might as well hang up your gloves. YOU MUST LEAD AND DIRECT. YOU MUST TAKE CONTROL. If you do not , she will direct you (Your typical AFC marriage). You make the choice.

It's not about leading and controlling women, it's about controlling ourselves.

Being in control of our emotions, and I really think Jeepers is creating issues with himself, when there may not be. It sounds to me like he in fact does controll his emotions. He channels the emotions that we all have, into a direction that works for him.

Why get stressed out and over emotional over things we can not control?

If my GF came and told me she cheated on me, I'd love to able to keep playing a video game. You can't change that...

you can't change women. All you can do is guide them and be the best person you can be. Let the chips fall as they may..

 

[guru1000]

It's not about leading and controlling women, it's about controlling ourselves.

Being in control of our emotions, and I really think Jeepers is creating issues with himself, when there may not be. It sounds to me like he in fact does controll his emotions. He channels the emotions that we all have, into a direction that works for him.

Why get stressed out and over emotional over things we can not control?

If my GF came and told me she cheated on me, I'd love to able to keep playing a video game. You can't change that...

you can't change women. All you can do is guide them and be the best person you can be. Let the chips fall as they may..

This is the mentality and result of why men say "My gf cheated on me" or " my wife left me". This is the typical AFC mentality. YES, it is true, you can only control yourself, BUT you must direct and lead your woman (TAke CONTROL).

Women have no direction. They are children. Do you TAKE CONTROL with your children and DIRECT and LEAD THEM?

It is your DUTY as a MAN to lead and direct. By saying "Let the chips fall where they may" , you are saying "Let her do whatever she likes and let's see what happens." WRONG!

You lay out the rules, your boundaries. She either respects and honors them or you walk away.

You MUST DIRECT or she will control you.

 

[Interceptor]

I believe that Jeepers is 'cutting off" feelin g emotions to women he gets too close to.
This IS a problem.
If he were talking about a ONS, that's another thing. But these are womne in his life, his LTRs we're talking about here.

Now, your values, and criteria for satisfaction will probably be different from mine, and of Jeepers'.
But I do believe that in order to 'feel' Love, and enjoy it, you must have some connection to your partner.
Jeeprs HAS Emotions, he CAN Control his emotions. He had to, he learned it form dealing with his father.

But now that he's on his own, he is in a similar situation with womne.
He may attract women that after NOT 'feeling him there", will try to dominate him and LEAD him, which we all know creates problems.
In other words, when a Woman does NOT FEEL YOUR Masculinity, she gets 'lost", and tries to 'create" or simulate her own.
Look, at the end of the day, his relationships are FAILING, he's not happy, and he's not making intimate connections with women, and KEEPING them, if you guys don't see a problem, we're way worse off than I thought...........

Again, it's good to control your Emotions. it's bad to be DISCONNECTED from them, and people you 'care' about, and whom care about YOU.

I mean, why are you there if you don't give a fvck?

I also want to say that we need to establish a distinction between Control, as in Self Control, and CONTROLLING as in "Come here, b*tch.You're not going out with your friends tonight or ever"
And DOMINANT, as in "I am important in this and I have authority here." and not DOMINEERING as in "I own you, and YOU Do what I say ."

 

[Quiksilver]

I know I'm a bit young to be posting in here, but wow this topic hits home. I can relate a lot to you jeepers.

My gf of 5 months, last year, told me she cheated on me in an argument we had at my house. I wasn't yelling, in fact i was wondering why she was getting worked up about the subject(I had a group of girl friends I used to chill with sometimes, from my afc days) she got pissed off when I put them before her one night. Anyways she came out and said she cheated on me at a house party the week before. I just walked her to the front door, let her out(she was ready to leave by then anyways), closed it behind her, deleted her number from my cell phone, and that was that. I havent talked to her again to this day, never felt any sort of emotions in terms of 'fighting to keep her' or any of that. She's tried to call a bunch of times but I never pick up if I recognize her number.

For a while I thought I delt with it the way I should, but in retrospect she disrespected me(albeit in a big way), and I avoided the problem afterwards. Just swept it under the carpet and called it done. Sure she was at fault for cheating, but I also treat girls passively. I let them do what they want, never 'lay down the law' and always always always they end up disrespecting, I end up dropping them and moving on, they come back and wonder "why i don't care".

A little bit of backstory... I've also had an emotionally traumatizing childhood and youth for reasons Im not comfortable getting in to, but I do believe that joekerr and Interceptor are correct. As a defense mechanism I've learned to emotionally switch off in intimate situations, and with close friends. It gives me the ability to walk away, but at the same time it takes away from my ability to get involved on a deeper level.

I'd appreciate some more insight in this thread as to how to shed this protective layer. I believe both jeepers, I and whoever else can relate would also benefit.

thanks

again, i know im not supposed to be posting in here, but Rollo and Des, i'll kick both your butts if you delete this!

 

[guru1000]

When there is no sheriff in town, the criminals are free to do what they do best without fear of consequence.

 

[Mr.Positive]

This is the mentality and result of why men say "My gf cheated on me" or " my wife left me". This is the typical AFC mentality. YES, it is true, you can only control yourself, BUT you must direct and lead your woman (TAke CONTROL).

Women have no direction. They are children. Do you TAKE CONTROL with your children and DIRECT and LEAD THEM?

It is your DUTY as a MAN to lead and direct. By saying "Let the chips fall where they may" , you are saying "Let her do whatever she likes and let's see what happens." WRONG!

You lay out the rules, your boundaries. She either respects and honors them or you walk away.

You MUST DIRECT or she will control you.

What you are saying Guru, is that the actions that women take is somehow the fault of men. By not leading and controlling them. So...what? If a girlfriend of mine cheats on me, it's my fault for not controlling her?

That my friend, is very afc, IMO.

A man handles whatever situation he's confronted with, in a calm, controlling way...controlling his emotions.

You can command respect from your woman, without controlling her.

You can lead by example, you can guide women with a positive outlook on life, and by respecting yourself...as a man.

 

[guru1000]

What you are saying Guru, is that the actions that women take is somehow the fault of men. By not leading and controlling them. So...what? If a girlfriend of mine cheats on me, it's my fault for not controlling her?

That my friend, is very afc, IMO.

A man handles whatever situation he's confronted with, in a calm, controlling way...controlling his emotions.

You can command respect from your woman, without controlling her.

You can lead by example, you can guide women with a positive outlook on life, and by respecting yourself...as a man.

YES , that is what I am saying. By not leading her and keeping her within your frame , it is your fault and when she cheats on you or leaves you, take responsibility.

It is no coincidence, a woman has never cheated on me. Yet so many guys including the OP have been literally abused by women. Yet they all have one thing in common, they never LED and KEPT THE WOMAN WITHIN THEIR FRAME.

I think it is a safe bet to say with your type of thinking which is "Let the woman do whatever she wants" and not LEADING you have been in some abusive relationships.

Im glad you can calmly control yourself while your gf is out there getting gangbanged. If that's what makes you happy, more power to you.

Respect yourself. Don't compromise your integrity with a woman who will disrespect your frame , rules and integrity. Lead and dominate. Accept nothing less or walk away.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I think it is a safe bet to say with your type of thinking which is "Let the woman do whatever she wants" and not LEADING you have been in some abusive relationships.

Where did I post "let the woman do whatever she wants"? For the record, I've never had a woman cheat on me either.

You are really sending the wrong message here. Do the women you date stay with you out of fear?

Lead by example, women are just along for the ride. Respect yourself man. When you respect yourself, you don't put up with any BS from anyone. Work on yourself first and formost.

If you feel that you need to live your live controlling others, you've got some serious issues.

If you are a quality man, you will have quality women in your life (hopefully). A quality woman does not need to be controlled, or on a leash, to keep from straying. She's with you by choice, because you are a man of value. If she fvcks up, she's gone, and she should know this.

EDIT: To add, you are putting women as the prize. "The prize" must be protected, controlled, safeguarded, and caged away so it can never be lost. However, if YOU are the prize, maybe...just maybe women will fight to keep you around. Just a thought.

 

[STR8UP]

NO you are not messed up at all- your INDIFFERENCE (at least she will see it that way) keeps you in charge of the situation and it pops her balloon..

Read some of STR*UPs posts about "walking away" before you condemn yourself for being emotionaless.
Most of us mature men struggle to keep our cool with women who mindfvck us - you seem to do it easily.

I will never forget the last time I lost my temper with a woman. I mean, I REAAAAAALLLY lost it. I was up in her face SCREAMING. When I looked back on it I couldn't believe I let her rattle me like that. I don't care if I spent two great years with her and I find her out at some other dudes house in the middle of the night. No b1tch is worth it.

Chick I was dating last year deliberately TRIED to push my buttons.

Wanna see a woman get mindfvcked? All you gotta do is turn around and walk away when she's acting like a brat or behaving inappropriately. She KNOWS she's doing wrong. The worse the offense the more powerful it is for you to leave her hanging.

I could have imagined the mess my ex would have been if I would have turned on my heel and walked away expressionless without saying a word when I caught her red handed. Sometimes the most powerful statement you can make is to make no statement at all.

If you catch your girl cheating on you and you walk away without so much as a word it leaves so many questions unanswered it will take her months to be able to get on with her life. It will take her even longer than that to get over it completely. Most will probably carry it with them for the rest of their lives. Can you think of a better way to get back at someone than to make them remember your indifference for eternity? I can't.

 

[guru1000]

Where did I post "let the woman do whatever she wants"? For the record, I've never had a woman cheat on me either.

You are really sending the wrong message here. Do the women you date stay with you out of fear?

Lead by example, women are just along for the ride. Respect yourself man. When you respect yourself, you don't put up with any BS from anyone. Work on yourself first and formost.

If you feel that you need to live your live controlling others, you've got some serious issues.

If you are a quality man, you will have quality women in your life (hopefully). A quality woman does not need to be controlled, or on a leash, to keep from straying. She's with you by choice, because you are a man of value. If she fvcks up, she's gone, and she should know this.

They fear the consequence of leaving my frame because I will walk away.

The AFC mentalily is 50%- 50%, yet why do so many AFC marriages fail. Why is it we live in a society of MEN not being MEN. This was the essense of my thread BEING A MAN. A woman, even a quality woman, wants to be lead by a MAN. They wonder where are all the REAL MEN out there. How many times have you heard that?

Why has the OP had so many abusive relationships and yet the name of his thread is "Do i have a passiveness problem"?? This is not rocket science. I fyou can't find a correlation, that is a serious problem.

No you can't be passive. As Interceptor put it, a woman needs to feel your masculinity. She needs to feel your testosterone. If she doesn't, she will find it elsewhere. Men Lead. Men are proactive. Men dominate. Once a woman takes the role of a MAN , the relationship is doomed.

Of course you need to respect yourself. I never advocated to control others in the sense you are misinterpreting. I clearly state bring the woman into your frame and lead. I did state CONTROL in this sense.

The word CONTROL is very negative. CONTROL seems as if it goes hand in hand with possessiveness , jealousy and dominating which are all AFC traits.
However a woman needs to be in your frame and you must lead her. She needs to feel your MANLINESS. Let us not misinterpret AFC CONTROLLING (Tempermental) with KEEPING THE FRAME, LEADING and DIRECTING. It doesnt change the fact, women need to feel they are being directed (controlled in this sense).

If you tell a woman do not say the word "A@@" to me. You are stating this is my boundary. Respect that or you will be gone. She doesn't say it out of respect. However , she respects your boundaries out of fear of you walking away and losing you. Only in time, with maturity, she will do it out of love. Real mature love take many years to develop and even then boundaries have to be set.

It is your duty as a MAN , to lead. A LEASH or strong internal boudaries she needs to respect must be in place. She is initially with you by choice but she stays with you because you are a MAN.

 

[STR8UP]

No you can't be passive. As Interceptor put it, a woman needs to feel your masculinity. She needs to feel your testosterone. If she doesn't, she will find it elsewhere. Men Lead. Men are proactive. Men dominate. Once a woman takes the role of a MAN , the relationship is doomed.

This is the key to the sexual universe.

Masculine woman+feminine man= DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN

Masculine woman+masculine man= WON'T LAST

Masculine man+feminine woman= THE SECRET TO A HAPPY, HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP

If we had more feminine women and more masculine men the world would be a better place.

 

[JeeperCane]

Just for the record to clarify my own situation: I was rocked by this girl, was upset when we broke up and did try to talk things out. Although only tried to do so for a week before shutting her completely out (no returned calls, texts, no FaceSpace sit pics, nothing). I'm not sure where that leaves me, but I just wanted you guys to be clear on what I had done. Haven't actually seen her in almost a month though.

 

[jophil28]

He may attract women that after NOT 'feeling him there", will try to dominate him and LEAD him, which we all know creates problems.
In other words, when a Woman does NOT FEEL YOUR Masculinity, she gets 'lost", and tries to 'create" or simulate her own.

Yep, this is what happens when a Man suppresses his manliness and his natural mannerisms - he behaves "nicely" - he accomodates her whims and bends himself to please her. She boasts to her G/fs about how 'sweet ' he is, and six months later dumps him becaiuse the "chemistry was not there any more" (if it ever was ) ... She will also set up drama and provocations along the way to fill the vacuum created by his lack of leadership. As Interceptor says she feels "lost" - a boat without a captain. She resorts to the only strategy that she, as a woman, knows -covert manipulation and dramatic attention seeking. THis does not ever produce the desired results that she is seeking.
Then it all gets too unfulfilling and so she cheats or walk out (or both) .