DJ observations, how could this happen?

[Slickster]

Since coming here I now view the world as some kind of psychology experiment. I'm trying to validate the principles of DJing through my own experiences and that of others.

Here's a story about a couple of friends of mine. I think it demonstrates some of the principles of DJing taught here but it also contradicts a few too. I've been analyzing it but would like some input from you guys to help me understand.

Kira and Rick were together for 3 years. Rick was a friend of mine for many years and I met Kira cuz she was my girlfriends sister. Now I don't think Rick has been to this site but he displays all the qualities of a true DJ. Its amazing because the funny thing is his experience with women is very limited. Kira was his first REAL girlfriend. Rick was always a challenge for Kira. His life and his friends were very important to him and he never let his relationship get in the way. Kira's interest level for Rick always seemed sky high.

Kira is a sunshine girl. The kind of girl who has a ton of guy "friends " who all think they're getting somewhere with her but never will. She would frequently go on dates with these "friends" and once even went on a 5 day road trip with a guy. Did this bother Rick? Hell no. He always played it cool and calm. Truly amazing.

Being together with Kira's sister, I always had a ring side seat and was always baffled by the way their relationship seemed so messed up but still managed to thrive. I would often say to my girlfriend. "Why is Kira hanging out with that guy? Doesn't Rick mind?" And my girlfriend would always say "They're just friends"
Which was bull**** cuz it was obvious that they wanted her.

One of Kira's "friends" a guy named Dave was very open with the fact that he wanted her. Dave displays many of the qualities of an AFC. He would buy her all kinds of expensive gifts, and take her out for dinner. All while she was together with Rick. He would openly claim that he had been pursuing Kira for 10 years!
She would never give him anything to go on but he was always there whenever she needed him. Disgusting.

Here's where it gets weird. Kira and Rick start having a rough time. Things aren't going well and of course Dave is there for Kira to vent her problems to. He became her therapist and they would talk on the phone till the wee hours of the night. Dave keeps buying her flowers and more expensive gifts. Kira eventually begins seeing Dave behind Ricks back.

This bothered me quite a bit because Rick was my friend but my girlfriend probably wouldn't appreciate me saying anything to him.
So I minded my own business. Sure enough Kira dumped Rick and he was crushed. He never showed it to Kira though. Man he's good. He said to me that he lost all faith in women and would be single for a long time. Poor bugger.

I still speak with Kira and she tells me all about her and Dave and how happy they are. How great of a guy Dave is and how he tells her all the time how beautiful and sexy she is. Its really confusing to me. How did the AFC beat out the DJ? This story goes against everything we learn here.

Dave has a lot of money but Rick is doing pretty well for himself too. Dave got his money from a bogus lawsuit. (He didn't deserve a dime and he flaunts that fact as well as the money) I don't like Dave much. He's an arrogant pr*ck. The kind of guy who drinks and drives all the time, has a violent temper, and gets in fights all the time.

So guys any thoughts on this and how it could have happened?

P.S. Its really none of my business but I would love to get some kind of revenge for my buddy Rick. He's a real nice guy and she fvcked him up good. I'm not together with Kira's sister anymore so I'm not worried about that. I don't want to be manipulative but I've planted a few seeds in Kira's head last time we spoke.

I asked her if Dave was such a "great" guy why did it take her 10 years to realize it. I also mentioned the fact that I saw Rick hanging with a new chick the other day. Which was true. She pretended it didn't bother her but I could tell it did. I won't be saying anything else. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[BvrEngr2006]

Well it's equally confusing to me but I'd spect that he was able to take advantage of Kira's situation and become her "rebound". How long this will last I don't know... I doubt he can continue this nice guy routine forever and expect it to keep working.

Jer

 

[Ricky]

All I know is that would flat out suck. Rick played it cool by not being jealous and he got screwed in the end.

I don't know if I would have done it any different. Maybe sometimes a little jealousy would have helped?

 

[TesuqueRed]

What is it with guys needing to prove this stuff lately? It's like when a young Christian goes thru a period where they need to prove God exists and can't quite work out why bad things happen to good people, so they get all shakey about that meaning maybe God doesn't exist...

Anyway, who's to say Rick was all DJ or not?

Who's to say he isn't better off without Kira? Let Dave have her, she's sounds like she caught a winner here

I wouldn't get involved here. You don't want to become known as a mind-fvcker, and Rick is better off w/o her. She's getting toxic, so keep your distance from her and her friends.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Ahh, yes. Another perfect example of a cop-out by Master DJs on this board! No explanation can be offered for why a girl leaves a DJ for an AFC. It happens.

Before you all go flaming me... Understand something. I think that this site is awesome! I think that much of the advice on here is great and gives guys who are really struggling a way to get their confidence back. I'm not in any way, advocating becoming an AFC! And, I respect much of the advice of senior and master DJs.

BUT, some of you guys think that because you've been on this board forever, and have 3,000 posts... that you're infallible. You really do treat this stuff like a religion, and hate to admit that you could be wrong about some things, or you don't have a reasonable explanation for all of it.

That was exactly my reason behind my post "Explain this Sh!t". Some of what happens with women makes absolutely no sense to anyone. Not even the great POOK. Oh my! The Blasphemy!

The point is that I don't think anyone can explain why some AFCs win with women and some DJs lose. It makes no sense. There's no explanation that I can think of.

If Anyone can come up with a reasonable, logical explantion.... then we'll all have the one true key to success with women. Otherwise, it's all about hit or miss, be confident, keep approaching and keep getting rejected. Hell, maybe that's the key! Some guys just find the right girls for them, and some don't. You increase your odds the more you approach. Nothing else matters. I could be onto something here. Naah. That would mean about 50% of the posts on this forum are worthless for success with women. More Blasphemy!

 

[Slickster]

Okay Tesque red I'm going to have to agree with Clint on this. Quit being such a know it all.

My problems with Djing have little to do with getting the girl but rather the part about keeping her. I'm very interested in the dynamics of relationships and what keeps people together.


I may have an explanation...

In this case I think that maybe because Rick was a challenge for Kira throughout their whole relationship she became frustrated with him.

Kira actually began to desire an AFC. Someone who would give her things that Rick was not.

Because Dave was her therapist so to speak I'm sure he heard all of her complaints about Rick and in turn gave her exactly what she wanted.

Will Dave and Kira survive...... I don't know.

Can it be that going out after a DJ's girlfriend with AFC behaviour might just work??

And I am staying out of their business. I'm just curious and want to learn.

Hmmmmmm......

 

[Raoul]

While this isn't a science that is to be studied and theorised for generations of Don Juans before Quantum Seduction throws out Newtonian Seduction and we all crap our pants and wonder if we were all fooling ourselves all this time, there is a glaring flaw in all of your "observations", "case studies" and "science experiments".

Who says Kira, or any chick for that matter, is the best for Rick? You're all going with the assumption that the chick is the prize, and that the AFC and DJ are in competition for it.

Wrong. The chick isn't the prize. And the DJ is in competition, but with HIMSELF, not the AFC.

The site doesn't teach you to get a particular chick. It teaches you to BE BETTER with chicks in GENERAL. You're looking for a worthy chick for a long-term relationship. You're not trying to make a particular chick worthy for a LTR. You can't. But you CAN weed out the nonsense and focus on the valuable goods.

Slickster, bros before hoes. You should have told your friend if YOU KNEW he was being cheated on. Doesn't matter if your girlfriend doesn't appreciate it, as his "friend of many years" you should have.

Guys don't over-analyse. Especially OTHER PEOPLE. This is not some ****amamie science experiement, and anyway there are too many variables you cannot control when observing others in action. What you can do however, if try the changes and see the results for youself.

And Clint, I saw your other post. If you're really curious or confused, ask nicely. Don't yell and threaten and give ultimatums.

There is no "one true key" for success with women. If you had read through the bible and the archive thoroughly you should have known this by now. That's why I keep saying it's not a science! It's an art, and cannot be determined all the time by quantitative measures.

So relax, chill, and experiment with what's been advised in the bible and in the archive. There are many guys here who are testament to the fact that this stuff works in improving ourselves to be better with woman, and at life in general.

 

[becker]

Clint Eastwood certainly has a great point, and I've always taken that position as well.

Bottom line: It's always a case-by-case analysis when it comes to women because each person is different. Do all us guys go after the same type of woman? I actually wouldn't mind being with a girl that is not playing mind games all the time, whereas some people might like the challenge. Been there, done that, and I personally don't care for that stuff.

Anyways, perhaps it's because the grass is greener on the other side that the girl fell for Dave over Rick. Dave put up a little bit of a front, because it seems he wasn't the sweet innocent AFC that he seemed to be, and perhaps she saw that. Who the heck knows. There are too many variables involved.

 

[MarineDavelli]

Thank you, Raoul

Who says Kira, or any chick for that matter, is the best for Rick? You're all going with the assumption that the chick is the prize, and that the AFC and DJ are in competition for it.

Wrong. The chick isn't the prize. And the DJ is in competition, but with HIMSELF, not the AFC.

.
.
.

There is no "one true key" for success with women. If you had read through the bible and the archive thoroughly you should have known this by now. That's why I keep saying it's not a science! It's an art, and cannot be determined all the time by quantitative measures.

So relax, chill, and experiment with what's been advised in the bible and in the archive. There are many guys here who are testament to the fact that this stuff works in improving ourselves to be better with woman, and at life in general.

OOH RAH!

I'm glad that someone else around here actually understands that the path of the DJ is to improve oneself, and that only when one is happy with himself will he naturally attract women, instead of covering up his unhappiness with rules, one-liners, and pre-scripted conversations and techniques that will get a woman and keep her until she figures out that it was all a facade.

Semper Fidelis,
Dave

 

[Pook]

Have you ever heard the phrase: "When faced with many suitors, women tend to go with the guy they think likes them the most."

Male-lust turns women on. And women do tend to go for the guy who does tend to like them the most.

I am currently doing an experiment with one chick. In my AFC days, I was complete AFC with this chick. But now I am DJish but I let myself remain AFCish with this ONE CHICK. I do everything I am NOT supposed to do: be passive around her, please her, do what she says, etc. This, of course, repels her.

Yet, when the ladies get together, she hears, "OMG! Did you see that guy? He is a Pook!" And the ladies chatter about the Pook. She gets confused and curious. Next time she encounters the Pook, she expects a DJ and once again Pook turns himself into an AFC. Haha

A strange reaction occurred. I asked other chicks and they seem to confirm it. She is thinking, "Gee, all the other girls want him yet he wants ME!" She probably has no real interest in me (since I act AFC around her). Yet, she's interested because I am choosing HER rather than these other chicks. "Oh, that must mean I am special!" She will yield to me because in my world she is 'special' whereas in other guys' eyes she is just another 'girl'. This is what she's thinking.

Actually, I think I went total AFC on her because she's that rare type of chick you would want to marry and we can't have Pook getting married now, can we? But the point is that if you like a girl well enough, that is genuine in this reality, then she will probably yield to you.

I know so many guys who got their girls by simply, "Being a pest". Being true to your passion usually brings about what you want.

In this case, Kira is a chick that loves attention. She probably liked for a while how Rick wasn't acting like these other guys. But she is an attention chick so she will eventually go for the guy who has been chasing her for 10 (!) years.

Raoul is dead on correct in his post. The chick isn't the prize. Oh no, the chick goes for an AFC. What are you going to do? Go home and cry? Please. Did you WANT this chick in the first place? Look how she acts. I wouldn't go for a chick like that.

Many chicks, even gorgeous chicks, aren't worth getting. Let the AFCs weed them out. I gladly let other guys get the fat chicks, psycho chicks, feminist chicks, etc.

Guys don't over-analyse. Especially OTHER PEOPLE. This is not some ****amamie science experiement, and anyway there are too many variables you cannot control when observing others in action. What you can do however, if try the changes and see the results for youself.

Exactly! Many guys are still in a hyper-reality.

 

[Ziro]

I personally think that the reason that Kira went for Dave was because Dave must've been influencing Kira in some way. Dave must've pointed out and emphasized Rick's faults. See, being a DJ doesn't always mean you'll get the lady. Dave may have made Kira lose interest in Rick by associating the image, thought, or being of Rick with a negative vibe. She won't stay with Dave, she doesn't want an AFC, she never did.

-BTW, Pook, i have the same problem (AFC around one girl, DJ around the others).

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Sh!t happens.

A Turkish commander once said, "In war, sometimes the best soldiers are worsted".

 

[Slickster]

Once again

This is all just curiousity on my part, not overanalyzing. I'm not wasting anymore time than you guys on this site. I don't spend my day thinking about Kira and Rick.

And that Bros before Hoes comment I agree with completely but what do you do when you're friends with both parties involved?
Kira confided a lot of info to me and I feel like I'm a person to be trusted. I did tell her that she better hurry up and break up with Rick if she was going to keep going with Dave. She knows I lost respect for her.

I guess what intrigues me about this situation is that Kira seemed like a quality chick to me. Her relationship with Rick seemed solid. As far as her interest went she couldn't seem to get enough of him.

Another interesting point. Rick is a way better looking guy than Dave. He's taller more masculine looking and has a lot of chicks saying how cute he is. Dave's just short and kind of goofy looking. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Hey POOK : I find it funny how you agree with another poster saying "This is not some science experiment...blah blah.." Yet you yourself are conducting an experiment of your own with a chick you act AFC with. Hmmmm. And also what is hyper-reality?
And one more thing.... your opening statement about women tend to go for the guy that likes them the most seems contradictory to this whole DJ way of thinking don't ya think?.

Oh yeah, and the question wasn't if Kira was the right girl for anyone.

It's how does a guy acting very AFC steal a guy who is acting very DJ's girlfriend?

 

[Ded_Skin_Mask13]

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?



I think she is a gold digging, **** sucking piece of trash. Even though i don't know this Rick, I respect him. He always kept his cool. I believe something better will arise from this bummer experience. Tell him that too.
f***** hore!

 

[Fool]

Good looking doesn't count. Rick is better looking then Dave, but both of them are unique. No use trying to figure out ways to keep them forever with you. People will eventually get tired and just take breaks from relationship. So let's all just go out buy some junk food and play video games at home.

 

[JustDoItAlways]

AFCs get girls, DJs get girls, just about every guy on the face of the planet will get a girl.

DJs are just 5% to 10% of the male population. How can DJs get all (100%) of the girls. Sorry, the math just doesn't work.

A DJ, however, will get his pick of women, maybe have two or three on the side. The AFC has to settle for whatever falls into his lap (and it happens a million times everyday.)

But Rick was no DJ.

First, a DJ stays away from sunshine girls and girls with lots of male friends. These chick's main (probably only) goal in life is to attract male attention and prove to themselves that they are desirable. Sometimes, that means they have to cheat on their boyfriend or flirt with other guys right in front of his face just to prove to themselves how desirable they really are. Sunshine girls never slow down (not until their looks have faded so much that even 70 year men won't look at them any longer.)

Second, your girlfriend should not have tons of male friends that she goes out with (certainly not on a five day road-trip.) A DJ always plays the odds and the odds are that this kind of girl always cheats with one of these guys. You tell her that there will be no more outings like this or you will be out outing with another girl.

He did some other things right. But two fatal wrongs like this are always fatal.

 

[Pook]

Re: Once again

Originally posted by Slickster
I find it funny how you agree with another poster saying "This is not some science experiment...blah blah.." Yet you yourself are conducting an experiment of your own with a chick you act AFC with.

If my ambition was just to get girls, I'd have left here long long ago. I have other goals.

Hmmmm. And also what is hyper-reality?

It is the reason why many people are stuck here on this DJ forum, never advancing, never doing what they intended to do. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll start posting more here (have a wave of assignments that I need to handle for this month).

And one more thing.... your opening statement about women tend to go for the guy that likes them the most seems contradictory to this whole DJ way of thinking don't ya think?.

Women know guys will go a girl in a pretty skirt any day. *But* if the guy goes for her for reason beyond, why the chick believes she is *very special*. This is especially true if the guy can get other chicks yet he goes for HER. She feels like a winner. It has nothing to do with the quality of the guy. She is listening to her ego, not her heart.

Oh yeah, and the question wasn't if Kira was the right girl for anyone.

It's how does a guy acting very AFC steal a guy who is acting very DJ's girlfriend?

From what you described, Kira is a girl with a guy who is very laid back, etc. And she breaks up with him for a guy who is chasing her for ten years, etc.

Look from her perspective. DJing is so refreshing with women because most men act AFCish. But in this chick's world, the guy was already laid back. So in her little world, it is probably refreshing to have a guy who is AFCish. It could be as simple as that but it is probably with which man her ego feels bigger.

Keep in mind that some women change men as they change clothes. They must try them all on.

From what you described of Kira's behavior, I don't find her as quality. She seems too absorbed for attention.

I only bother wondering about the quality chicks. The unworthy ones... well, why bother?

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Posted by Pook:

Keep in mind that some women change men as they change clothes. They must try them all on.

This is such a powerful truth. Some women never seem to be satisfied either. Even when they find one that fits really well, they think they have to try on another one. I've been having trouble coming to terms with my past couple of relationships. Even though I dumped the one girl, she seemed to be loosing interest before I did. It still hurts my confidence. Now, I think of it more as her wanting to try someone else on.

In my more AFC days, I once went shopping with a girlfriend. Try it sometime and you'll get a kick out of this concept.

 

[Slickster]

Re: Re: Once again

Originally posted by Pook

Look from her perspective. DJing is so refreshing with women because most men act AFCish. But in this chick's world, the guy was already laid back. So in her little world, it is probably refreshing to have a guy who is AFCish. It could be as simple as that but it is probably with which man her ego feels bigger.

Keep in mind that some women change men as they change clothes. They must try them all on.

Pook I must say I like this explanation.

I do see Kira about once a week (thru work) so I'm curious to see what will happen.

As far as Kira being a quality chick, well I have to say my view of her has changed dramatically since all this happened. After reading your above quote I believe that this is probably why she was a "sunshine girl" . She just wasn't getting enough attention from Rick.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Brasco]

I am not the jealous type, but I was seeing a girl about 2 years ago nothing serious but it was almost there. She was always talking about her friends but she would never say names " a friend of mine" she would say. She would go out of town to visite these so called "friends", I never though much of it, figured it was just close friends, friends she went to university with. Since we were not actualy BF and GF yet I never asked questions about these friends.

We were just about to get serious in the relationship when I pulled the plug on her. It was during a week night, she called me on a Tuesday to see what I was doing on the weekend, I told her that we could not do anything because I had to go down home for the weekend, it was my fathers B-Day. I was over at her place on the thursday after I told her I was going home and she said "a friend of mine is coming down friday evening", I said cool. I was Starting to get a bit suspicious because she would never say a name, I was not going to ask her neither. What I did was on that friday I did not go down to my parents place right away on the friday, I stayed back for a bit since my fathers B-Day was just on the saturday. Around 8 O'clock PM I decided to make a unexpected visite over to her place to visite her friend. When I walked up to the door I could see inside and there was her and her so called friend, a guy, sitting on the couch together talking. I knocked on the door, when she seen me I could tell by the expression on her face that she did not want me there. I just said I figured I would pop in to see your friend before taking off. So I stayed for a bit then left, when I was walking out she followed me outside and said " I hope your not mad, he is just a friend" , I just looked at her and said "SURE HE IS" and walked away. When I came back home on the sunday, I looked on the phone and seen that she called 4 times that sunday afternoon, I called her that sunday night and broke it off with her.

My point is, any chick that has male friends is not a longterm chick. These so called friends are actually guys she keeps tucked away in back of a shelf for future use. Can any of you guys actualy say that you have female friends that you would not sleep with even if you had a chance, well the same works for females, thay may call them friends but deep down they are a bit more then that. This girl still has the hots for me, when ever I run into her she is all smiles and she keeps saying that we should do something some night as friends" I just say "yeah we should", I might someday but I will never be her boyfriend.