"definitely not having sex with you" sh!t test

[vatoloco]

Sounds like you had a great night....but like other guys said earlier, it seems like your situation is related to a girl you were having a few beers with one night.

The point of the story is, like Rollo has said, "A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you." My virgin [at the time] GF wanted to wait until marriage to have sex. That plan went out the window a long time ago since her desire to fuck me was stronger than the one for waiting.

The OPs issue is with a girl he's been on 5 or more dates with. If she were so horny for him, why wasn't this revealed earlier on?

Like I told him, I think she just wants a girlfriend. Somebody to talk to and hang out with, w/o having to do the deed.

"A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you."

 

[Aaron B]

Five dates? I missed that part.

I use a three date rule. No sex by the end of the third date, and I don't invite her on a fourth.

If she won't give it up by the end of the third date, she either isn't attracted to me sexually OR she is intentionally withholding sex from me, which means that she will use sex as a weapon, and I'm not interested in being in a relationship with a woman like that.

 

[Von_S]

Ok so two identical scenarios from this past weekend,

Friday: Had a chick over (different from this girl) this is our second date, we're on my couch making out. Long story short, she's a little shy, doesn't want to **** but gives me a handjob, (haha, is this 9th grade?) she also texted me on Sunday asking to come over but I wasn't home and don't want this chick to get clingy so I told her some other time.

Saturday: The girl in question is at my place around 10pm, we're on my couch making out and she pretty abruptly cuts it off, "I'm on call tomorrow so I have to be up early" previously that night she was talking about how she was on call but was pretty sure they wouldn't call her in. Mind you this is at least the 5th time we've hung out and not the first time we've made out. Also this woman is 31, not some child who has no idea what this is about.

Hrmm two very different results given the same situation.

Sunday: She texts me to hang out again, I told her we should pick up where we left off, she drops the "I'm not going to sleep with you" line. At that very second I was driving to an afternoon first date with a new chick. At which point I go into "fvck it" mode and have a blast with this new girl. New girl's diggin' me, we make plans for this coming Saturday, I tell her I'd like to do something that involved taking her clothes off at my place. She was EATING THAT SH!T up!

 

[Mike32ct]

I met two chicks at a club one night. I won them both over, but one of them was clearly attracted to me. Let's call them HB Attracted and HB C*ckblock.

HB C*ckblock: You're NOT taking her (HB Attracted) home.

Mike: That's fine.

<Continue partying and dancing with both>

<Later that night>

HB C*ckblock: We're both drunk. Can you walk us back to our place?

Mike: Sure. <Walking with one chick on each arm back to their place >

HB C*ckblock: I'm gonna get some sleep, but you two CAN'T do anything.

Mike: Ok no problem.

<HB C*ckblock passes out>

<Mike fools around with HB Attracted in other room.>

Moral of the story: What they say doesn't mean jack.

 

[synergy1]

edit double post

 

[synergy1]

Don't listen to them is good advice. The only problem is when you're getting "i won't have sex with you" after date #5.

It's one thing when a girl says we're not having sex on your cab ride back to your apartment. Because you already know she's isolated, AND heading back to your apartment.

...It's another thing when a girl has qualified you enough over 5 dates, and still won't make any moves past kissing.

I hate seeing guys in this situation because I hated being in this situation.

5 could be worse depending on how much or little progress has been made. Its tough to gauge only going by an online post, and after 5 meetings, one can't totally rule these things out. It sucks waiting that long, but 2-3 meetings isn't unusual. If by 5 you are still doing the same stuff as on date #1, yeah its probably best to move on.

I also want to be clear on that I am not advocating rape by telling the OP to pay no heed to the 'no sex' thing. Obviously you gotta progress as the situation dictates.

 

[HalfAddict]

I remember when I invited a chick I had a few dates with to my buddies wedding, we agreed to get a hotel room.

Upon entering the room it was make out time until we had to leave, she says No sex tonight and I say OK.

Few hours later we leave the reception early and the second we walk in the room she says "do you wanna do it?" I'm like yes.. and I ****ed her six times throughout the night.. so seriously, that is just anti-slut defense.

We started a relationship and every once in awhile we would rent that same hotel room and go at each other for two days lol.. good times.

Sounds like you need to get her isolated and make a move.

 

[Von_S]

Update!

So guess who called last night offering me an apology.

She knew she came off pretty harsh, I told her I wasn't mad and that if she wasn't into me its no problem and we can go our separate ways. She went on to say that she's only slept with a handful of people and that she just doesn't jump in the sack with any person, "when you're with me its special" blah blah blah, I shrugged it off, kept pretty upbeat and didn't dwell on the subject too much. She asked me if I wanted to go to see Twilight with her (gimme a break) I declined and said maybe we'd hang out some other time.

I'm spinning a number of other plates so I'm thinking I'll backburner this one, maybe run some experimental game on her while I'm getting my d!ck wet elsewhere.

 

[bukowski_merit]

It hasn't been my experience that women making that EFA (early frame announcement) are bluffing. It's been my experience that they either are a) not going to have sex with me THAT NIGHT. b) going to make me work really hard to get her to have sex with me THAT NIGHT.

I understand that to a large extent it's because I'm turning them on. They make the accouncement of "no sex" hoping it will push me away from the idea of making the move. They also make it in a way to clarify with themselves that they will have the "power" to resist. And then, they can keep saying "I told you no sex" if things are getting heavy.

I'd rather not discuss too much what to do about it; but focus on 2 things that help avoiding her saying it...
1) Maintaining a sexual frame. Playing sexual Q$A games with them, talking about sex, making obvious inuendos, etc. This is also a good screening tool for getting rid of time wasters (such as women who want 20+ dates before they drop the bomb that they aren't interested). You need to be like this from the start though; suddenly acting like this on date 5 will certainly sound her alarms and get exactly what we're trying to prevent.

2) Making her qualify herself as a "bad girl'. Telling her she might be too good for you. Telling her you don't want to corrupt her. (This can be used in advance or can actually be used when she's putting up the LMR.... Example: Not too long ago I was making out hardcore with a girl; had her shirt off and tits out... Was about to take her belt off her pants and she said, "no no... no sex"... I don't remember exactly what I said (it was 4am and i had been drinking) but it was something along the lines of "oh, you're a good girl? I might be too much of a bad guy for you. Don't want to corrupt you. I thought you were a bad girl?" And i let the tension collapse. Well... almost instantly she was saying she didn't mean we couldn't have sex that night - that she meant that she wasn't ready "yet." Well... 5 minutes later she was ready.)



But with all this said - you handled it very good, and it's good that you didn't do some nice guy bs and try to claim that's not what you're after, etc. She now knows the cost of hanging out with you will be sex. And that ball is in her court.

 

[Iceberg]

So guess who called last night offering me an apology.

She knew she came off pretty harsh, I told her I wasn't mad and that if she wasn't into me its no problem and we can go our separate ways. She went on to say that she's only slept with a handful of people and that she just doesn't jump in the sack with any person, "when you're with me its special" blah blah blah, I shrugged it off, kept pretty upbeat and didn't dwell on the subject too much. She asked me if I wanted to go to see Twilight with her (gimme a break) I declined and said maybe we'd hang out some other time.

I'm spinning a number of other plates so I'm thinking I'll backburner this one, maybe run some experimental game on her while I'm getting my d!ck wet elsewhere.

Putting her on the backburner is the smart move.

I think after 5+ dates, it's pretty clear to her that you're not going to blow your load in her and go running off into the wilderness. So if she's still evaluating you, then it's her loss. You've been more than generous with your time with her.

It's obviously pretty absurd on her part to expect a guy to continue dating her while getting nothing in return. She holds no power, because she's not giving you anything. But she still expects you to jump at offers of watching Twilight together. Perhaps she's new to this dating thing.

Either way, you stuck to your guns, she apologized, and now you're smart enough to see her for what she is. It's a small victory, but you should be proud.

 

[bukowski_merit]

I am not sure I am clear on this - doesn't this conflict with the other school of thought that is mentioned here, where you are supposed to let her ASD down by making her feel that "it just happened" at no fault of hers? Rather than putting the ownership on her and making her carry the burden of being the slvt/bad-girl? thanks.

I see...

I can't speak for what others think or what theory's they follow. I can only speak from my own experience and what has worked for me. With that said - I have A LOT of experience, and I do believe to some extent - it comes through in my persona when I'm talking to women. I don't even have to be saying something sexual. Just the way you look at a woman and slow down your words, etc.

But anyway; you do want them to believe "it just happened". It's the old, "come back and see my fish tank" theory. And it's an accurate theory in my opinion. I will never say to a woman, "come to this hotel and fvck me" lol... I'll never say, "let me come over and within 30 minutes have you on all 4's"... I'll pitch the hotel at them like it's the golden ticket of dating. I'll ask her what she can cook; if she can't cook - i'll ask her what she can order.

The whole bad girl thing is something that I have her qualify to me many times. I want her seeing me calling her "good girl" to be about the same as me calling her a "worthless b!tch".

When I'm sexual vibing with her - and i feel like her answers are lacking - i'll always accuse her of being too much of a good girl for me. I can only think of a few times that women have said something like, "maybe i am" when i've said something like that (to which i'd reply, "it's ok - some of us have horns; some of us just have stumps". - which seems to amuse them enough.)

So yes, by the time she gets into my bed - she'd gotten the same "game" as others. She has qualified herself many times to me; she knows im sexual; she knows im not going to judge her; she knows she's in for a good time with an experienced guy. She does not want to have her bad girlness questioned after 2-3 days of trying to prove she isn't.

This is why 1) is soooo important. If you do not set the frame very early that you are sexual and that you like girls who like to have fun - #2 will mean nothing!


If I've been playing the traditional dating game with a woman (You know - drinks, dinner, movies, blah disgusting blah....) And have only done stuff like flirt and ****y+funny, without much sexual stuff.... If it's the 3rd date and we head back to my place and we start making out and i go to take her shirt off and she says, "no; i can't have sex."

IF i say - "oh, well maybe you're too much of a good girl for me" - it's going to confuse the hell out of her! It's going to be in-congruent to the way i've treated her up until that point. And she will see it as a game by me. It IS reverse psychology, and it seems to obvious. But when she's used to me saying such things - she's not going to see it as such.




Being openly sexual (with or without class) + Building comfort + Tension = Very little sexual resistance for me.

 

[The_Crack]

Keep pushing for her to come over. She says shes not going to **** you, but lets be serious here.. all she wants is an excuse to act like "it just happened"

Make it a pitstop on the way somehwere, just to drop by your house to pick something up. Or a quick drink before you head out. Make excuses for her to come inside, and once thats happened.. work your magic playa

 

[Jack Wealthy]

Smile and say sure. Then continue talking about her coming over. It is the exact same principle as every other **** test, just plow through it indifferently. When she is at your house escalate normally like it didn't happen, because really it was probably a test to see if you wanted her enough.
Another possibility is she wants a friendship. I'll guess you'll find that one out when she is naked in front of you.

 

[iwanttofight]

Quit wanting to **** her so much! She knows that, that's why she won't **** you, girls like a challenge

 

[Von_S]

Update

I put her on ice last week and got 2 or 3 "lets hang out" texts which I blew off because I was either hanging with my male friends or nailing other chicks. She's showing high IL but I'm hesitant for yet another happy-hour-goes-nowhere date. My objective here is to bang her without having to waste time and money on more lame ass dates.

Saturday around 7ish she calls and I didn't answer, I was with an up and coming plate at the time and let it go to VM. An hour later she follows it up with a "What are you up to?" text message, I wait 45 minutes and reply "Just chillin with a friend"

Turns out the VM she left was a long winded message about wanting to go snowboarding sometime this week and if I'd be up to go. Sure, that's a fun activity that I would be doing anyway, in which case I'm happy to allow her to accompany me. I drive, I pick her up, I'm running the show; in fact I spent half the day giving her lessons. During the day we joke, make out a little bit, I rub her sore neck and joke about rubbing her sore ass as well as a few other innuendos. On the drive home we talk about careers, our individual pasts and what not, good conversation, no dead air. We get back to her place, I help her unload her gear, give her a little peck and move to leave, she asks if I want coffee or something, I politely decline, say I'll see her later and leave.

Why did I turn down coffee?
1) We were both tired after snowboarding and I knew going up there would be a waste of time, (no fvcking) plus it was a casual invitation, if she wants to escalate after dissing me last week she's going to have to work a lot harder than that.

2) I'm pulling back from her, making myself a bit of a scarce commodity. I have to assume (since we met on POF) that she maybe seeing other dudes; although who's she calling on Saturday night and spending her day off with? Me. I know she had fun and I want to go out on a high note.

And finally the REAL reason why I didn't go up

3) Date with a plate later that night :rockon:

You maybe asking "Von, why not just NEXT this chick and move on?" Well, part of me always loves a challenge, I have blown off and been blown off by many a woman, this isn't a case of oneitis. My Sensei (the guy who taught me everything about game) said having a passion project doesn't hurt, and for me this is like a Cold War; my swagger vs. her morality/ASD drawn out over a much longer timespan than how I normally work. I've resigned myself to not initiating hanging out or sending her random texts, so if she disappears then *poof* on to the next one.

Stay tuned....

 

[Viagra4Soul]

If I've been playing the traditional dating game with a woman (You know - drinks, dinner, movies, blah disgusting blah....) And have only done stuff like flirt and ****y+funny, without much sexual stuff.... If it's the 3rd date and we head back to my place and we start making out and i go to take her shirt off and she says, "no; i can't have sex."

IF i say - "oh, well maybe you're too much of a good girl for me" - it's going to confuse the hell out of her! It's going to be in-congruent to the way i've treated her up until that point. And she will see it as a game by me. It IS reverse psychology, and it seems to obvious. But when she's used to me saying such things - she's not going to see it as such.

I love this style. The target (divorced, small child) I'm currently seeing is a case in point on this. I have been playing traditional as she is comfortable with that most. I escalated each time from Date 1 to Date 3, and got more each time (very slow though - we were only open mouth kissing by Date3!). Date 4 was at her place for dinner, more escalation, long kissing periods. Date 5 was crunch time, and she knew it. Video at hers, followed by bedroom and the old "it's late though now - no sex" while we are both naked under the sheets after a lot of making out. Couldn't do the 'bad girl' thing - it wasn't right for this. So I denied her - and rolled over and went to sleep with my back to her. 3am I get the reach-around wake-up rubbbing on my c3ck - and we're into it, she totally open.

Patience, persistence, don't break the frame.

 

[Burroughs]

get laid FIRST

THEN go on dates.

 

[f283000]

What's the best way to respond to going on 5+ dates with an adult woman and not getting any sex? I think you know the answer to that.

I went through this a few years ago. Went on 5 dates with a girl who I thought showed high IL. On dates #2 - #4, I politely invited her to my apartment, which she declined. On date #5 I flaked...because f**k that sh*t.

I explained my situation to an ex gf, and she responded with something that I still hold onto: "5 dates and no sex? F**k that. This girl wants to play boyfriend with you."

Basically meaning, this girl wants the benefits of a boyfriend: movie dates, someone to text/call, someone to pay attention to her...but without giving up any of her own power (aka sex).

I'm sure throughout the course of history, there have been plenty of guys who successfully waited for a woman to put out. But I don't do that anymore. I almost feel like it's disrespectful, since it's obvious that you like her (5 dates), but she doesn't want to commit to liking you, and she doesn't want to commit to disliking you by walking away. So she wants to maintain her level of power/control, and give you nothing in return.

This is a great post Iceberg. I think it comes down to her lack of respect for you as a man.

If she respected you as a man and wanted you as a man she would put out. If she doesn't respect you as a man and sees you as a nice guy women are likely to pull tricks like this.