Dating gets much better for men as you age. Read on...

[Solomon]

If you really want a LTR or gf, shoot for the HB7's.

Yeah, HB8-9's are fun to f*uck, and just generalizing here, but their attitudes and personalities are usually really poor. All window dressing with no one home. You can almost graph it: the hotter the woman, the more emotional and psychological s*hit she carries. Many reasons for this, but it's true.

I really don't date HB5-6's, so I shoot for the HB7's if I'm thinking gf material. Many have the girl next door look to them but their personalities are exponentially better than the HB8-9s. These are the best choices for long-term partners, IMO.

can you post an example of what you deem an HB7 you can even use a celebrity example thank you

 

[Pandora]

I was going to post on @MatureDJ thread about A 30 something comes to a harsh realization but just decided to start a new post as what I have to say is important to the younger guys.

I know a lot of you guys are young, but your dating prospects don't dry up and the world doesn't end at 30. It doesn't end for high quality women either.

I'm over 45 so I'm qualified to say this with 100% certainty because I'm living it:

- Your dating prospects actually IMPROVE with age. If you're 35-45+ you can date women younger who have never been married or dip into the divorcee pool which at that point is also lucrative. In this day and age, MANY women who are 40 look 30 or younger if they take care of themselves and have a little help from Mother Nature.

- If you stay in shape, enhance your looks, invest $ wisely, maybe start a business, or work your way into a good job, you'll be in the upper 5% of ALL men no matter what age. One thing I've learned since I made my dating comeback 4+ years ago is the age difference issue in dating is much more acceptable now. I only date women 15-25 years younger. All HB7+ too. It's really easy, for me anyway. I have a hot, 28 year old chemist blowing up my phone now as I kept her at bay during the quarantine. BUT, you need to create the advantages I mentioned above--which you can control 100%.

-Most women around 35 stop playing all the dating merry-go-round games too. They’re more honest and take and give less BS. Sure, some 35 years old women act like 16 year old’s, so be on the lookout and cut them if they get on your nerves. If you have value, you'll be fine and in demand. Some have kids, some don't. Fewer women are deciding to have kids these days.

- I've found 90% (maybe a conservative estimate) of men 40 and over are VERY docile, beta, and blue pill. They'll do ANYTHING for a relationship and many date like little kids or teens (all nervous, unsure, overly accommodating, insecure)--still. Sad. They are VERY clingy and supplicating. Act like a DJ and you'll naturally attract all sorts of women. I just got hit up by a 23 year old on Hinge today.

- Don't listen to all the "Chicken Little's" (Panic! Panic! The sky is falling!) out there. Life is A LOT better in your 40's and beyond once you establish yourself. You get attention from all sorts of women. Are there flakes and bitches? Yes. BUT, what comes with age (for most successful men anyway) is a natural IDGAF attitude about women. You just shrug your shoulders and find another one. By default, you don't accept flaky behavior from people, men or women. You just cut and move on, no big deal.

So don't freak out about aging. It's actually much better on this side.

Ciao.

~Dash~

I hope you are right Dash. This post is inspiring. I just turn 35 and noticed my first real grey hair in my beard. Im freaking out haha. How do you deal with greys? Do you let it rock ir dye it?

Btw do you have any kids and what is your view on them? How does fitness change in your late 30s and 40s? I got many questions about this topic.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a good thread. It’s easy to think nobody is attractive after 40 or 45 when you are in your 20s or 30s. People in their 40s & 50s are more comfortable in their own skin I’ve found. There are women who have taken good care of themselves...I’ve had young women in the clubs actually call me hot & hit on me (which I find amusing & entertaining) but their jaws DROP if I tell my age. It’s kinda funny. I’m strictly ****ly but it’s flattering in a sense.

So so SO many people let themselves go in middle age. Those who don’t become more & more attractive relative to their peers. And these people have myriad options. I get approached by men as young as late 20s all the way to men in their 70s. I prefer a man within 5 years of my own age. At 51 I’m still finding more plenty of options.

One odd thing I find is that the few times Ive ventured onto OLD, men will question how recent my photos are. I always use recent & accurate photos. But guys think the photos are a younger version of me. For example my avatar is an unretouched proof taken last fall. I’m 50 in that photo. I send men pics from that session? They tell me I look 30 and then *poof* at times. I’m not catfishing or BSing. But maybe they’ve had other women bait & switch. It’s all I can figure.

So I prefer IRL interactions. Then there’s no debating whether my appearance is real.

 

[metalwater]

My only issue with this is I don't want to be 55 and my son be 15. I'd still like to be able to run football drills with him or keep up with him in soccer or the weightroom, etc.

you still can do that at those age. I guarantee it.

 

[SW15]

I hope you are right Dash. This post is inspiring. I just turn 35 and noticed my first real grey hair in my beard. Im freaking out haha. How do you deal with greys? Do you let it rock ir dye it?

I'm 37. I'm clean shaven but I notice when I don't shave for like 3-7 days, I can see one grey hair in my beard. I have yet to have a grey hair on my head, but that's probably not far away. I thought that I would dye my hair at that point, but now I'm concerned about chemicals in dyes. I've done a lot to remove contaminants from my life, avoiding processed foods, estrogenic soy and soy derivatives, and no porn/nofap. Just going grey would probably be more natural, like eating the natural foods and having orgasms only through natural sex (why seduction is so important to me).

Right now, at my age, I can date women of numerous ages. I don’t date anyone older, but I can date anyone 21-36. That’s a wide range. I’ve not been able to go more than 10 years younger. At this point, that’s still in their 20s.

I find that swipe apps are sometimes more difficult for dating much younger women. If I source dates from a swipe app, it is more likely that I’m out with someone 1-4 years younger. A lot of women will set their swiping age range close to their own age. In real life, the interactions can’t be avoided. I live in a singles dense part of my city and tend to spend my time in areas where younger singles are. I go to a gym with a mostly 20s/early 30s crowd, the grocery stores I go to trend a bit younger, and when I need to daygame on the street, I go to areas where mostly 20 something to early 30s childless women congregate. This is why I vastly prefer daygame to swipe apps. I also get the in-person experience right away, which gets me ahead of the curve on the actual first date. It is also a sort of natural strategy, like my food and sex perspectives.

 

[Barrister]

If you really want a LTR or gf, shoot for the HB7's.

Yeah, HB8-9's are fun to f*uck, and just generalizing here, but their attitudes and personalities are usually really poor. All window dressing with no one home. You can almost graph it: the hotter the woman, the more emotional and psychological s*hit she carries. Many reasons for this, but it's true.

I really don't date HB5-6's, so I shoot for the HB7's if I'm thinking gf material. Many have the girl next door look to them but their personalities are exponentially better than the HB8-9s. These are the best choices for long-term partners, IMO.

I just got out of a LTR with a HB 8 - 8.5. It was not worth it. It was constant drama; constant up and down; hot and cold; roller-coaster. Finally had enough. After awhile, the great looks aren't enough to make it worth it with so many problems.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Same perspective on this advice as I had with your other advice: this used to be true.

dating a seven was great because they were less entitled than the eights or nines, but not since the advent of OLD. They are just so addicted to to come up they get from getting used for sex by tens that their self-image is even more disoriented than a nine who had everything handed to h
er.

Based on many years of dating, overall, I have just not found this to be true. I've found the more attractive the woman, the more entitled they were. This has been amplified the past 4 years, since I've been dating again. They also had the attitude of "Ok guy, you'd better impress because I've got plenty of other dudes I can be spending time with." It was never overt, but you could just tell. I was usually successful in having sex with them but then quickly lost interest. I need someone interesting, not just a pretty face. The 7's have always been my gf targets. I've found their personalities to be much better. But, again, just my experience.

Also, I would be a bit skeptical about getting dating advice from anyone who goes by MGTOW. That whole group is bitter, clueless, and has pretty much given up. Not the qualities I look for in advice-givers. Proceed with caution here.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Based on many years of dating, overall, I have just not found this to be true. I've found the more attractive the woman, the more entitled they were. This has been amplified the past 4 years, since I've been dating again. They also had the attitude of "Ok guy, you'd better impress because I've got plenty of other dudes I can be spending time with." It was never overt, but you could just tell. I was usually successful in having sex with them but then quickly lost interest. I need someone interesting, not just a pretty face. The 7's have always been my gf targets. I've found their personalities to be much better. But, again, just my experience.

Also, I would be a bit skeptical about getting dating advice from anyone who goes by MGTOW. That whole group is bitter, clueless, and has pretty much given up. Not the qualities I look for in advice-givers. Proceed with caution here.

MGTOW... I agree that "bitter" would be a good stereotype for them. Thus clouding their judgement.

 

[oc16]

I was going to post on @MatureDJ thread about A 30 something comes to a harsh realization but just decided to start a new post as what I have to say is important to the younger guys.

I know a lot of you guys are young, but your dating prospects don't dry up and the world doesn't end at 30. It doesn't end for high quality women either.

I'm over 45 so I'm qualified to say this with 100% certainty because I'm living it:

- Your dating prospects actually IMPROVE with age. If you're 35-45+ you can date women younger who have never been married or dip into the divorcee pool which at that point is also lucrative. In this day and age, MANY women who are 40 look 30 or younger if they take care of themselves and have a little help from Mother Nature.

- If you stay in shape, enhance your looks, invest $ wisely, maybe start a business, or work your way into a good job, you'll be in the upper 5% of ALL men no matter what age. One thing I've learned since I made my dating comeback 4+ years ago is the age difference issue in dating is much more acceptable now. I only date women 15-25 years younger. All HB7+ too. It's really easy, for me anyway. I have a hot, 28 year old chemist blowing up my phone now as I kept her at bay during the quarantine. BUT, you need to create the advantages I mentioned above--which you can control 100%.

-Most women around 35 stop playing all the dating merry-go-round games too. They’re more honest and take and give less BS. Sure, some 35 years old women act like 16 year old’s, so be on the lookout and cut them if they get on your nerves. If you have value, you'll be fine and in demand. Some have kids, some don't. Fewer women are deciding to have kids these days.

- I've found 90% (maybe a conservative estimate) of men 40 and over are VERY docile, beta, and blue pill. They'll do ANYTHING for a relationship and many date like little kids or teens (all nervous, unsure, overly accommodating, insecure)--still. Sad. They are VERY clingy and supplicating. Act like a DJ and you'll naturally attract all sorts of women. I just got hit up by a 23 year old on Hinge today.

- Don't listen to all the "Chicken Little's" (Panic! Panic! The sky is falling!) out there. Life is A LOT better in your 40's and beyond once you establish yourself. You get attention from all sorts of women. Are there flakes and bitches? Yes. BUT, what comes with age (for most successful men anyway) is a natural IDGAF attitude about women. You just shrug your shoulders and find another one. By default, you don't accept flaky behavior from people, men or women. You just cut and move on, no big deal.

So don't freak out about aging. It's actually much better on this side.

Ciao.

~Dash~

You are spot on man, especially if you keep yourself in shape! Men (younger men especially) have to realize female attraction does not work the same. Men wrongly assume females are attracted to the smooth glowing baby faced look (since that is what we as men are attracted to) but it does not work that way. Women are more attracted to some grey hairs, crows feet and an older established look since it signals confidence and dominance!

I am 43, but look 35 and I am in good shape. When I was 41, I even had a 21 year old (solid 6.5-7) interested in me, but I blew it since I was insecure about the age difference.

Also, a lot of woman 35+ play less games and are more aggressive since they are very well aware of their diminished SMV.

Ever notice how women around our age (late 30's, 40's) get angry when you talk about dating women 10-15 years younger and they try and shame you saying "she is too young"? The women are just being jealous since their SMV is not as powerful as it used to be.

Great post!

 

[Pandora]

Same perspective on this advice as I had with your other advice: this used to be true.

dating a seven was great because they were less entitled than the eights or nines, but not since the advent of OLD. They are just so addicted to to come up they get from getting used for sex by tens that their self-image is even more disoriented than a nine who had everything handed to her.

Austria **** is legit. He may not be 100% correct but he is on to something. He is entertaining atleast.

 

[Lookatu]

I hear age being a big thing in qualifying women here, and there are a lot of generalizations drawn and rightfully so based on individual experiences. However, it's important to note that everyone has led a different life and been on different tracks. Same for guys. Some just end up at the right place and have good mentors/bosses where they are elevated to greatness while others get fed with a crappy situation that stalls or damages their careers for example. This is just what we are fed in life and I don't think other people should qualify you from where you been, but rather currently what you're doing and how you're improving to move forward.

We all make mistakes and that goes for gals too. Some are able to analyze, reflect, improve, and move forward to better things while others are damaged and just get stuck in an endless loop and play the victim card without wanting to put forth any effort in changing the way they do things. I think guys are better in that regards when it comes to dating/relationships. Once again, this can boil down to the women think with emotions, guys think with logic scenarios.

So as Dash had mentioned, screening is very important and based on the answers you receive, you can pretty much predict what might happen.

Take a scenario where you find a 35yo woman on OLD and single. You might find that she's been in a LTR or married for the past 10-12years. Take another woman that's 35yo thats only had 1 serious LTR and it lasted only a year in the past 10 years.
There are differences here and more reason why you can't just automatically disqualify or generalize by age.

Bottom line is screening is super important here for what you want(LTR, hookup, FWB, etc) and I suspect Dash and I as well as others have done a good job to screen out potentials that would give nothing but negative energy and drama so we hardly face those situations.

There are plenty of gals of all ages that just have had bad luck or is starting to date again after being in healthy relationships.

 

[Dash Riprock]

You are spot on man, especially if you keep yourself in shape! Men (younger men especially) have to realize female attraction does not work the same. Men wrongly assume females are attracted to the smooth glowing baby faced look (since that is what we as men are attracted to) but it does not work that way. Women are more attracted to some grey hairs, crows feet and an older established look since it signals confidence and dominance!

I am 43, but look 35 and I am in good shape. When I was 41, I even had a 21 year old (solid 6.5-7) interested in me, but I blew it since I was insecure about the age difference.

Also, a lot of woman 35+ play less games and are more aggressive since they are very well aware of their diminished SMV.

Ever notice how women around our age (late 30's, 40's) get angry when you talk about dating women 10-15 years younger and they try and shame you saying "she is too young"? The women are just being jealous since their SMV is not as powerful as it used to be.

Great post!

Thanks, brother. Best of luck to you.

 

[Pandora]

I go to a gym with a mostly 20s/early 30s crowd, the grocery stores I go to trend a bit younger, and when I need to daygame on the street, I go to areas where mostly 20 something to early 30s childless women congregate. This is why I vastly prefer daygame to swipe apps. I also get the in-person experience right away, which gets me ahead of the curve on the actual first date. It is also a sort of natural st

Man thats awesome that you have access to women in real life. For post college guys its usually work and bars. What region of the country do you live in if you dont mind me asking. You can be general.

 

[SW15]

Man thats awesome that you have access to women in real life. For post college guys its usually work and bars. What region of the country do you live in if you dont mind me asking. You can be general.

Dallas, Texas. When I moved to Dallas, I made sure to move to an area of the city where the single population was most dense. When I first moved here, I was focused upon night game, but transitioned to primarily day game soon after moving here. Even in college and my early 20s, I realized that night game didn't play to my strength, since I tend to fade late at nights. I also don't want my first sex with a new woman to be late at night when I'm not at my absolute peak.

All forms of game work, but some people are not suited to do certain forms of game.

Gaming at work is not a good idea. There are a lot of downfalls with it. The best way to game at work can only be done if you work in an office building that has multiple companies within the building. The larger the building, the better. I have worked in buildings with 10+ stories, so pre-pandemic, there were a lot of people coming into those buildings. There are opportunities to hit on women employed by other companies in the same building. I would call doing this "daygame" and I have done it, though it's not my favorite venue for daygame.

Bars and nightclubs are good for extroverted people who don't mind late nights, alcohol, and have jobs that do not require a start time before 12 PM. I'm more introverted than extroverted. Also, the best nights at bars are weeknights like Wednesday and Thursday night. In the pre-pandemic world, Friday and Saturday nights were often too crowded, and too many pathetic guys with no game were doing approaches those nights, annoying women and making them less receptive to approaches from guys with skill, like many of us in this forum. The downside with doing nights out late on weekdays is staying competent at work the next day, if you work a typical 8:30 am - 5:30 pm type schedule. It's not easy to be attentive to detail at 9 am when you were out looking to get laid at 1 am the night before. I wouldn't recommend doing that regularly after one's mid-20s or maybe early 30s at the latest.

Daygame is closely tied to game as you age. I believe it to be the most sustainable form of game for guys in their 30s and 40s, some of the peak ages for men in the mating environment.

 

[sangheilios]

I haven't read through all of the posts on here, but this is my input on this as a fit/in shape man that turned 30 this year.

Most of the people that I know around my age, mid 20s through early 30s, are already in relationships, not necessarily married but definitely not available. Most women are not hanging around staying single when they are closing in on their 30s and going beyond, their biological clock is ticking and they are looking for what they feel is a good man to be wifed up by.

I agree with you, in that men going beyond 30 can still be attractive, fit and date younger women but this fails to take into account whether or not these men have access to women like this in the first place who also happen to be single. I posted this very same thing on another thread a few weeks ago, so I'll use myself as an example. I'm 30, and my life literally revolves around making money/working, which is an almost daily basis. Outside of this involves going to the gym, running errands, occasional hanging out with friends maybe some hiking and then just basic stuff like sleeping, cooking at home, etc. Unless I am actively going OUT of my way to put myself into situations where I am bound to meet single women (bar, socials, etc.) the chances of me running into a woman I'm into, who is also into me and available, is very slim. The life that I live is not all that uncommon for men once they start "adulting" and to be quite honest I just don't really have the time, energy or desire for any of this.

A solution some would say would be to use online dating sites and apps. I've checked those out before and it is made up of complete trash and nothing I would ever go on a date with, let alone be consider getting into a relationship with. I recently read a stat that by 2030 about half of American adults are expected to be obese. Something like this for a man who works out regularly and is in very good shape is an issue, because it means that the potential dating pool is already going to be severely limited by that alone without even factoring in the variables I mentioned above (them being single, etc.).

When it comes to single moms and divorced women, I'm not fully sure of how I feel about that. Women in both of these situations come with some baggage, naturally, and I think may be a bit bitter and just not as fun to date compared to a woman who has never had kids nor been married. When you get to your 40s and up this is what you are mostly going to be left with.

I'm not even old and I'm already noticing some of these things, I can't imagine what it is going to be like by the time I'm 40 or up. I've said it before and I'll say it now, it isn't in a man's best interest to stay single well past 30 if he can help it, as he is going to have a hard time finding anything of quality.

 

[Pandora]

I haven't read through all of the posts on here, but this is my input on this as a fit/in shape man that turned 30 this year.

Most of the people that I know around my age, mid 20s through early 30s, are already in relationships, not necessarily married but definitely not available. Most women are not hanging around staying single when they are closing in on their 30s and going beyond, their biological clock is ticking and they are looking for what they feel is a good man to be wifed up by.

I agree with you, in that men going beyond 30 can still be attractive, fit and date younger women but this fails to take into account whether or not these men have access to women like this in the first place who also happen to be single. I posted this very same thing on another thread a few weeks ago, so I'll use myself as an example. I'm 30, and my life literally revolves around making money/working, which is an almost daily basis. Outside of this involves going to the gym, running errands, occasional hanging out with friends maybe some hiking and then just basic stuff like sleeping, cooking at home, etc. Unless I am actively going OUT of my way to put myself into situations where I am bound to meet single women (bar, socials, etc.) the chances of me running into a woman I'm into, who is also into me and available, is very slim. The life that I live is not all that uncommon for men once they start "adulting" and to be quite honest I just don't really have the time, energy or desire for any of this.

A solution some would say would be to use online dating sites and apps. I've checked those out before and it is made up of complete trash and nothing I would ever go on a date with, let alone be consider getting into a relationship with. I recently read a stat that by 2030 about half of American adults are expected to be obese. Something like this for a man who works out regularly and is in very good shape is an issue, because it means that the potential dating pool is already going to be severely limited by that alone without even factoring in the variables I mentioned above (them being single, etc.).

When it comes to single moms and divorced women, I'm not fully sure of how I feel about that. Women in both of these situations come with some baggage, naturally, and I think may be a bit bitter and just not as fun to date compared to a woman who has never had kids nor been married. When you get to your 40s and up this is what you are mostly going to be left with.

I'm not even old and I'm already noticing some of these things, I can't imagine what it is going to be like by the time I'm 40 or up. I've said it before and I'll say it now, it isn't in a man's best interest to stay single well past 30 if he can help it, as he is going to have a hard time finding anything of quality.

Facts

 

[oc16]

I haven't read through all of the posts on here, but this is my input on this as a fit/in shape man that turned 30 this year.

Most of the people that I know around my age, mid 20s through early 30s, are already in relationships, not necessarily married but definitely not available. Most women are not hanging around staying single when they are closing in on their 30s and going beyond, their biological clock is ticking and they are looking for what they feel is a good man to be wifed up by.

I agree with you, in that men going beyond 30 can still be attractive, fit and date younger women but this fails to take into account whether or not these men have access to women like this in the first place who also happen to be single. I posted this very same thing on another thread a few weeks ago, so I'll use myself as an example. I'm 30, and my life literally revolves around making money/working, which is an almost daily basis. Outside of this involves going to the gym, running errands, occasional hanging out with friends maybe some hiking and then just basic stuff like sleeping, cooking at home, etc. Unless I am actively going OUT of my way to put myself into situations where I am bound to meet single women (bar, socials, etc.) the chances of me running into a woman I'm into, who is also into me and available, is very slim. The life that I live is not all that uncommon for men once they start "adulting" and to be quite honest I just don't really have the time, energy or desire for any of this.

A solution some would say would be to use online dating sites and apps. I've checked those out before and it is made up of complete trash and nothing I would ever go on a date with, let alone be consider getting into a relationship with. I recently read a stat that by 2030 about half of American adults are expected to be obese. Something like this for a man who works out regularly and is in very good shape is an issue, because it means that the potential dating pool is already going to be severely limited by that alone without even factoring in the variables I mentioned above (them being single, etc.).

When it comes to single moms and divorced women, I'm not fully sure of how I feel about that. Women in both of these situations come with some baggage, naturally, and I think may be a bit bitter and just not as fun to date compared to a woman who has never had kids nor been married. When you get to your 40s and up this is what you are mostly going to be left with.

I'm not even old and I'm already noticing some of these things, I can't imagine what it is going to be like by the time I'm 40 or up. I've said it before and I'll say it now, it isn't in a man's best interest to stay single well past 30 if he can help it, as he is going to have a hard time finding anything of quality.

I hear what you are saying; it seems like all the women HB 6.5 (aged 25-35)and up who are "normal" are taken already. I've noticed that as well.

 

[SW15]

Most of the people that I know around my age, mid 20s through early 30s, are already in relationships, not necessarily married but definitely not available. Most women are not hanging around staying single when they are closing in on their 30s and going beyond, their biological clock is ticking and they are looking for what they feel is a good man to be wifed up by.

Around mid-20s to mid-30s, most social circles become dominated by couples. However, what is important to realize is that a lot of these relationships are transient, even if it takes a while (3-5+ years) for these relationships to fail.

Also, just because a woman is in a relationship, it doesn't mean that she isn't open to jumping ship. Always remember that women specialize in monkey branching.

I agree with you, in that men going beyond 30 can still be attractive, fit and date younger women but this fails to take into account whether or not these men have access to women like this in the first place who also happen to be single. I posted this very same thing on another thread a few weeks ago, so I'll use myself as an example. I'm 30, and my life literally revolves around making money/working, which is an almost daily basis. Outside of this involves going to the gym, running errands, occasional hanging out with friends maybe some hiking and then just basic stuff like sleeping, cooking at home, etc. Unless I am actively going OUT of my way to put myself into situations where I am bound to meet single women (bar, socials, etc.) the chances of me running into a woman I'm into, who is also into me and available, is very slim. The life that I live is not all that uncommon for men once they start "adulting" and to be quite honest I just don't really have the time, energy or desire for any of this.

Access is one of the toughest things. For men in the late 20s to mid 30s (I'm 37), it is amazing to think about the access issue. Even if I pound the pavement hard via daygame and the bars, I'll have access to many more women via swipe apps. It might take 2 hours of lingering around the grocery store to get in 2-3 approaches.

Doing cold approaching takes dedication, sacrifice, and numerous lifestyle adjustments.

I live in a part of my city that is singles dense and it takes me effort to do cold approaching. When needed, I'm cold approaching my gym/fitness classes. When I go to a fitness class, I have to be in that fitness class for 45-60 minutes all for the 5 mins before and 5 mins after class to get in 2-3 approaches. At the gym, it depends upon what time I go and which women are there. I also have to contend with the earbud issue. I have approached women wearing earbuds, though it's not ideal. Lingering around the grocery store or the mall for hours isn't easy. Bar nights are tough. Some of this stuff is more difficult for me as an introvert.

A solution some would say would be to use online dating sites and apps. I've checked those out before and it is made up of complete trash and nothing I would ever go on a date with, let alone be consider getting into a relationship with. I recently read a stat that by 2030 about half of American adults are expected to be obese. Something like this for a man who works out regularly and is in very good shape is an issue, because it means that the potential dating pool is already going to be severely limited by that alone without even factoring in the variables I mentioned above (them being single, etc.).

When it comes to single moms and divorced women, I'm not fully sure of how I feel about that. Women in both of these situations come with some baggage, naturally, and I think may be a bit bitter and just not as fun to date compared to a woman who has never had kids nor been married. When you get to your 40s and up this is what you are mostly going to be left with.

I'm not even old and I'm already noticing some of these things, I can't imagine what it is going to be like by the time I'm 40 or up. I've said it before and I'll say it now, it isn't in a man's best interest to stay single well past 30 if he can help it, as he is going to have a hard time finding anything of quality.

I try to stay off apps but I have some recent experience on them. I'll share some of what has happened on my most recent blitzes. I usually get upset by what's going on within 3 weeks on apps and delete them. Whenever I'm on apps, I have no problem getting matches and getting dates. Hinge has been the most productive of these apps for me. Bumble has gone downhill in recent times but a few years ago, I was popular on it. I have no problem getting dates with 6-7.5 looking women. However, a lot of these dates are dates that don't result in me getting laid on the first date nor do they result in me getting a second date. That's a waste of my time. I'm not upset by a slower seduction (I want to get laid fast, but it doesn't have to be date 1) but I want my first dates to lead to a productive outcome. A lot of women, even childless women in their mid-30s, have more options than any man can imagine, so they'll bail on an interaction if all 30 of their criterion are not met. Additionally, some women are not great catches. In a recent blitz, I had a date with a divorced childless woman
and a never married childless woman who had been out of alcohol rehab. They were both in their mid-30s. Both had baggage, but at least the rehab completer had 4 years of sustained sobriety. For various reasons, I did not offer either a 2nd date.

I would date a childless woman if she were divorced. Single moms are just hit it and quit it. I've had very few interactions with them, but single moms definitely have a shorter relational shelf life than a childless woman.

Childlessness is becoming more common. Childlessness tends to be more of a white woman thing. After age 30, there are many single white women who are childless. They are easy to find on Hinge and Bumble. It wouldn't take too much effort to find them in real life in a major city if in-person time is carefully planned. Good luck finding a Hispanic single woman over 30 who is childless. Millennials born in the 1980s have high rates of childlessness. In 2025, there will be a lot of ~40 year old never married, no children Millennials.

 

[sangheilios]

+1. Let's face it, the answer is that we all need to settle when the market is giving us those signals. Even if its through no fault of our own. The dating market is in a depression and so you're going to have to either adjust to the new price point or simply be single. Former corporate executives were delivering pizzas after the 2008 downturn. I have been trying to the best that I can but I still seem to end up with very attractive women that are impossible to lock down and getting dismissed by 5s that think I'm just using them until something better comes along. Ironically that is exactly what the job market was like in 2009 for well-educated people

I hear what you are saying; it seems like all the women HB 6.5 (aged 25-35)and up who are "normal" are taken already. I've noticed that as well.

The dating market at the end of the day is like a very competitive game of musical chairs. Attractive and quality women that are "normal" are going to be snatched up really quick because they are IN demand by other men. I've said this before on this forum, there are exceptions to this but for the most part these women will not be on the dating market for very long much past 25. I've noticed that 25 is around the age where women sort of change and are looking to settle down, again not necessarily get married but they are usually looking for a good man. Being 30 and still single is not a good place for women due to their biological programming of wanting a kid, if they do want one or more they'd need to be starting right then and there, where as at 25 they still have some time.

Older men can and do date younger women but I think some of the posts on here are a bit delusional in the grander scheme of things. At 30 if you are still in shape and reasonably attractive and normal you can still go out with women that are 25ish, most of the women I've been on dates with over the past couple years were around 23-25. Even if I continue to be fit and take care of myself, I realize that 15 years from now, when I'll be 45, I'm most likely not going to be going out with women that are 23 who aren't gold diggers. This isn't being pessimistic or defeatist or due to a "lack of game", it's just simple reality that father time will show.

 

[sangheilios]

Around mid-20s to mid-30s, most social circles become dominated by couples. However, what is important to realize is that a lot of these relationships are transient, even if it takes a while (3-5+ years) for these relationships to fail.

Also, just because a woman is in a relationship, it doesn't mean that she isn't open to jumping ship. Always remember that women specialize in monkey branching.



Access is one of the toughest things. For men in the late 20s to mid 30s (I'm 37), it is amazing to think about the access issue. Even if I pound the pavement hard via daygame and the bars, I'll have access to many more women via swipe apps. It might take 2 hours of lingering around the grocery store to get in 2-3 approaches.

Doing cold approaching takes dedication, sacrifice, and numerous lifestyle adjustments.

I live in a part of my city that is singles dense and it takes me effort to do cold approaching. When needed, I'm cold approaching my gym/fitness classes. When I go to a fitness class, I have to be in that fitness class for 45-60 minutes all for the 5 mins before and 5 mins after class to get in 2-3 approaches. At the gym, it depends upon what time I go and which women are there. I also have to contend with the earbud issue. I have approached women wearing earbuds, though it's not ideal. Lingering around the grocery store or the mall for hours isn't easy. Bar nights are tough. Some of this stuff is more difficult for me as an introvert.



I try to stay off apps but I have some recent experience on them. I'll share some of what has happened on my most recent blitzes. I usually get upset by what's going on within 3 weeks on apps and delete them. Whenever I'm on apps, I have no problem getting matches and getting dates. Hinge has been the most productive of these apps for me. Bumble has gone downhill in recent times but a few years ago, I was popular on it. I have no problem getting dates with 6-7.5 looking women. However, a lot of these dates are dates that don't result in me getting laid on the first date nor do they result in me getting a second date. That's a waste of my time. I'm not upset by a slower seduction (I want to get laid fast, but it doesn't have to be date 1) but I want my first dates to lead to a productive outcome. A lot of women, even childless women in their mid-30s, have more options than any man can imagine, so they'll bail on an interaction if all 30 of their criterion are not met. Additionally, some women are not great catches. In a recent blitz, I had a date with a divorced childless woman
and a never married childless woman who had been out of alcohol rehab. They were both in their mid-30s. Both had baggage, but at least the rehab completer had 4 years of sustained sobriety. For various reasons, I did not offer either a 2nd date.

I would date a childless woman if she were divorced. Single moms are just hit it and quit it. I've had very few interactions with them, but single moms definitely have a shorter relational shelf life than a childless woman.

Childlessness is becoming more common. Childlessness tends to be more of a white woman thing. After age 30, there are many single white women who are childless. They are easy to find on Hinge and Bumble. It wouldn't take too much effort to find them in real life in a major city if in-person time is carefully planned. Good luck finding a Hispanic single woman over 30 who is childless. Millennials born in the 1980s have high rates of childlessness. In 2025, there will be a lot of ~40 year old never married, no children Millennials.

The issue with a woman who monkey branches so easily over to you would raise the question of her potentially just moving on to someone else later on.

Yeah, as a regular gym goer I've approached women there several times in the past but nothing came from any of them other than being lead on due to attention seeking behavior. It makes sense why someone like me would want to meet a woman in that environment but from my first hand experiences it just doesn't seem like the best place, though this could simply be due to just having bad luck with meeting the wrong women.

As for dating sites and apps, I've been on just 2 "dates" with women I've met off of there and neither experience was worth it. I personally found apps and sites to be a waste of time, just tons of fake profiles, scammers, women that are absolute trash, etc.

As for the childless women, I do know exactly what you are talking about, as I'm originally from the Boston area, but there is ALWAYS a reason why these women are single AND childless. As I've said on this forum before, there is a reason why a woman is 35, still single and has no children. Sure, maybe she was in med school or something hyper-competitive like that, but in the bigger picture this is going to represent a fairly small percentage of women and therefore is irrelevant. Typing about this on here right now reminds me of the t.v show "Sex and the City", a bunch of 30-early 40s single women who struggle in the dating world. The interesting thing is that instead of glamorizing their life at the end of the day the producers ironically showed that these women ended up in some rather undesirable set of circumstances.