Date Report: Never before have I suspected a girl using me for a free dinner.

[sageproduct]

Just got home. Not feeling too hot.

So quick primer, I've gone on enough dates in my life by now to at least have an idea of what the score is. In my experience, most girls who go out with me are really good about money - as in they'll pay their half or at least offer to pay. The girl I went out with last year for a couple months would pay almost half every time, and another girl even paid for me in full once.

So, the issue of who pays on a date is generally not at the forefront of my mind.

The Chick

Turns 22 next month. On paper, she seems to totally be "my type". Same career goals, introverted, likes video games, doesn't like to drink/party/hang out in large groups, isn't attached to the hip to a bunch of friends.

Met her on Friday at the train station. Cold approached her, grabbed the number, texted for a couple days, called her on Monday, set up a date for tonight.

The Date

Picked her up at 7:30. Take her to the bowling alley, the wait time is an hour. Great. Oh well, I improvise, I ask her if she's hungry, she reveals that she hasn't eaten all day. Well, I improvise and head over to a semi-fancy Italian restaurant nearby. Beginning of the date was real cozy - we're linking arms, holding hands being all gay, that kind of sh1t. As we're sitting down:

Her: I feel bad because this place seems kind of expensive.
Me: It's ok, we can split it.

Conversation is decent. The vibe is going real well at times and we kind of cuddle sometimes. She orders some pasta and I end up getting salad because I already ate w/my family.

Check comes. I can't remember how it came up, but she brought up payment again

Me: I have no problem paying for you, but if you feel bad about me paying for you you can give me money
Her: I have money
Me: Cool, well either way
Her: Alright, I won't take away from your manliness then

And I paid $26 and left a $4 tip. Don't know why, but this kind of put a damper on my mood. In my past I had always been grateful just to land a date with a girl so I didn't really care if I spent $20 or something. This time, I had already spent $30, more than I've EVER spent on a date in my LIFE, AND the night wasn't over yet - we were supposed to go bowling.

Obviously, since my mood was shot a little our interaction suffered a bit. It was subtle, but I noticed it. Don't know if she did. For all the similarities I had to her, I started feeling like we didn't necessarilyl "click" that well. I took her to my car to drop off our leftover food, then we drove back over to the bowling alley.

The Kiss

Right before going back inside, I suddenly pulled her in and tried to kiss her. She pulled her head back and said "I don't kiss on the first date." I responded, "Oh no we're not kissing, I'm just getting as close as I can..." (she definitely didn't buy it) then kissed her on the cheek.

We go into the bowling alley. I'm not feeling good at all now and literally have to make an effort to conceal my mood. Thankfully, there's still a 20 minute wait at the bowling alley. I tell her it's ok, we can hang out for a couple min then I have to get home to my family.

Talk for a bit, the conversation is totally boring me now. I completely feel like I have no interest in this girl other than fwcking her now. It's so fwcking weird because she SEEMS like my "type". Idk. It's weird, being the way I am every girl I've gone a date w/I've always started to feel this strong attraction toward them, get this feeling that I would want to spend all the time in the world with them...and with this girl, despite her being everything that I "should" like, during our conversation I simply could not see myself spending significant amounts of time babbling with her.

I drive her home. During dinner she had VERY briefly alluded to an ex. On the car ride, the topic came up in passing again, and I ask:

Me: So you were in a pretty long relationship then? I just get that sense.
Her: Yeah...how about you? Have you been in any long relationships?
Me: Nope. Not at all.
Her: Really?
Me: Yeah.
Her: Why not?
Me: I don't click with most people. It's hard for me to find someone I click with.
Her: Do you think we click?
Me: (pulled the first answer out of my @$$ I could think of) I think we could double-click.

That topic died.

I drop her off. Get out of the car to give her a hug. Kiss her on the cheek a couple times, then say "You know the entire night I had to try so hard to keep myself from jumping you and making out" and she gave me a sarcastic sassy response.

She's not supposed to be the princess type though. I mean SHE'S A MUSLIM FOR FWCKS SAKE. (She's white though and decently hot).

Then, I get home and find that she texted me:

9:47pm Thanks for the awesome night! Drive safe and don't get lost
9:55 found my way home
9:57 I feel bad...I should have kissed you back! Have fun with your family

I honestly did not have a fwcking reply to this, I did not know what the f to say. Finally I came up with what I think was a decent reply:

10:09 Yeah you should have I was hoping you would leave lipstick marks on my cheek!
10:23 Marks huh? Sounds like you wanted more than one! Lol

I'm not used to this. Most of the girls I attract are the shy, unassuming type who would pretty much always pay their half or at least offer to. Maybe it's a good sign that I'm starting to attract a wider range of girls.

Bad dates always make me miss the good girls that I've had. I miss my redhead...I also miss my one-itis from last year

 

[asa_don]

You should have bought her a bowling alley hot dog instead. LOL

Or a coke at the very least

You should always spend the least amount of money you can on a date.

 

[sageproduct]

Lol yeah...it was an upscale bowling lounge though, food there might have been even more expensive than at the restaurant. Luckily I got out of paying for bowling.

Dammit. I feel like a new paradigm for myself is "First dates should be free dates."

 

[BeDJ]

When you assume she is your type, you will act differently around her. All the things that you learn here won’t be applied because she’s already pre-approved.

You planned to go bowling, but the wait was an hour. You fell back into AFC mode and decided to grab dinner on a first date with a chick you cold approached. You were accommodating the girl and making her feel comfortable (see: pre-approval.) She offered to pay, you could have regained some ground, but being a white knight, you instinctively took the check.

“I don’t kiss on the first date”
You went in like you did with the other chick you brought back to your place and cooked dinner. Didn’t you learn a lesson there man? There’s making bold moves and stupidity. When you went in for the kiss, you basically told her “Hey I’m a white knight, reward me for buying dinner.” Again, instead of standing your ground, you came up with the gayest excuse ever.

You have little interest afterwards because you realize that she is losing interest in you FAST.

“Do you think we click”
You: I think with double click
What are you doing to yourself dude???? You could have said – maybe, not sure, we’ll see, I have the weirdest boner right now, etc. You don’t have a prosthetic leg man, quit shooting it!

“Thanks for an awesome night”
Translation: Thanks for dinner

I feel bad…I should have kissed you back!
Translation: If I was interested in you. Saying this will soothe the guilt of a free dinner.

You didn’t know how to reply to that? TRY NOTHING. NOOOTTTTTTHHHHHHIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

Bottom line: Lost cause. Next her. This is the only way to kill the beta mindset.

 

[VladPatton]

Since you are doing cold approach number grabs, this is one of the casualties. You have no idea who you are about to go out with. None. This is why I don't like cold approaches. At least in a friend of a friend deal you can sort of ask a friend about the girl before you make a move and be fairly warned of a yay or nay. But hey, that's just me, I digress.

On cold-approach-out-of-the-blue girls, I would start very, very small and up the dates as things progress. Why end up paying good money for a crap date with a kiss on the cheek as your reward? Fück that.
If you got the loot, fine, if not, make it just coffee for a first date next time and see if you click with the chick. Looks and personality are two different entities wired on different circuit boards.

Good luck next time, man!

 

[rascal99v]

Buying her the pasta dinner + lame convo+ kissing her too soon + showing your high IL = her having low IL.

Why not just buy her a coffee or have a free date?

 

[Masculinity]

When you assume she is your type, you will act differently around her. All the things that you learn here won’t be applied because she’s already pre-approved.

You planned to go bowling, but the wait was an hour. You fell back into AFC mode and decided to grab dinner on a first date with a chick you cold approached. You were accommodating the girl and making her feel comfortable (see: pre-approval.) She offered to pay, you could have regained some ground, but being a white knight, you instinctively took the check.

“I don’t kiss on the first date”
You went in like you did with the other chick you brought back to your place and cooked dinner. Didn’t you learn a lesson there man? There’s making bold moves and stupidity. When you went in for the kiss, you basically told her “Hey I’m a white knight, reward me for buying dinner.” Again, instead of standing your ground, you came up with the gayest excuse ever.

You have little interest afterwards because you realize that she is losing interest in you FAST.

“Do you think we click”
You: I think with double click
What are you doing to yourself dude???? You could have said – maybe, not sure, we’ll see, I have the weirdest boner right now, etc. You don’t have a prosthetic leg man, quit shooting it!

“Thanks for an awesome night”
Translation: Thanks for dinner

I feel bad…I should have kissed you back!
Translation: If I was interested in you. Saying this will soothe the guilt of a free dinner.

You didn’t know how to reply to that? TRY NOTHING. NOOOTTTTTTHHHHHHIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

Bottom line: Lost cause. Next her. This is the only way to kill the beta mindset.

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

Holly crap, I was literally laughing non-stop when I read this. Needless to say, you've gotten great advice already, Sarge. I don't get it; you do so well at times and demonstrate you understand the game well, yet you turn around and shoot your foot with an assault rifle. I can see why she lost IL. Are you aware of the mistakes you're making? I used to mess up royally without even aware of what I was doing wrong.

 

[Down Low]

She's not supposed to be the princess type though. I mean SHE'S A MUSLIM FOR FWCKS SAKE. (She's white though and decently hot).

You cold-approached a girl in a train station who was wearing a burka? Or did she have religious diarrhea of the mouth? Either way, it was a huge red flag and you should have bailed as soon as you heard it.

Besides, it's an open secret that Muslims are publicly religious but privately degenerate. Muslim women are set up as toddlers with their first cousins. She's probably been fvcked by her male relatives beginning as soon as they could jam it in. Muslim women suffer from a very high incidence of HPD and try to seduce all the men around them.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Dude, man - she had interest, and you killed it with bad moves. Allow me to point them out to you:

...I've gone on enough dates in my life by now to at least have an idea of what the score is. In my experience, most girls who go out with me are really good about money - as in they'll pay their half or at least offer to pay. The girl I went out with last year for a couple months would pay almost half every time, and another girl even paid for me in full once. So, the issue of who pays on a date is generally not at the forefront of my mind...

But it should be. The fact that you're not currently dating any of these girls still indicates that, on some level, they got turned off when having to pay for themselves. Especially as far as first dates go, if you're the one asking, YOU should be the one paying. However, you should be coming up with inexpensive fun ish to do so you don't hurt your wallet when showing them a good time. My first dates are usually coffee shops or something low-key like a comedy club (which, in most places, is usually $5 to $10 a person).

Cold approached her, grabbed the number, texted for a couple days, called her on Monday, set up a date for tonight.

Texting KILLS relationships. So already, by texting her for a couple of days before asking her out, you were already being too available for this chick. Being too available = no mystery = less to talk about on the date = lowered interest. You should have just gotten the number, waited a few days to call her, then hit her up for the date and waited to talk to her again on date night.

Picked her up at 7:30. Take her to the bowling alley, the wait time is an hour. Great.

Bowling alleys are tricky dates to plan. Between unannounced league nights and/or the places being packed on random nights, it's very easy to show up there and get blind-sided. If you're going to plan a bowling date, always call the alley in advance to see how busy it is, and see if you can get on a wait list. If they say you need to be there in person to sign up for the wait list and you're still wanting to do bowling, show up early. The point is, when you're going out with a chick for the first time you don't want things popping up that show you don't have control of the situation, or an alternative plan already thought out in case plan A falls through.

Oh well, I improvise, I ask her if she's hungry, she reveals that she hasn't eaten all day. Well, I improvise and head over to a semi-fancy Italian restaurant nearby.

And this is where the evening started to go bad. Remember, YOU were the one heading this date, not her. As far as she knows, since you planned the outing, it means you also planned to be able to afford whatever YOU decided to take her to. YOU were the one who chose to go to the semi-expensive restaurant, not her - she was just following your lead, which is what the woman should be doing. However, that woman is following you with the assumption that your wallet can handle whatever food you decide to get her.

And from the sounds of it, you could have taken her somewhere less expensive - a fast food place, some bowling alley food, etc. - and she would have been happy with it, so long as she was in your company. But what did you do instead? You not only went through with the plan to eat at the semi-expensive place, BUT...

Her: I feel bad because this place seems kind of expensive.
Me: It's ok, we can split it.

...you then ask her to pay for herself! Classy move, man, real classy.

On top of that, when the check comes you become Mr. Indecisive. You tell her you don't mind paying, but then when she says she has money, rather than say "okay, cool, let's split it", you say "Cool, either way." At that point, you basically gave her control of whether or not she would pay - and, rightfully so, she told you to pay. Why do I say rightfully so?

BECAUSE YOU CHOSE THE VENUE, NOT HER.

If you didn't want to pay such an expensive price (and, for the record, $26 isn't really a lot of money for 2 dinners), you should have chosen another place to eat. But, since you didn't, you can't come back later and complain about what she "made" you pay. Heck, the fact that she told you early on that the place was too expensive... that's a chick that's looking out for YOUR wallet; you chose not to listen, so there was no reason for you to get mad about paying what you paid.

Despite you agreeing to pay for both of you, at that point you looked like a cheapskate to her, one that had poor planning skills and even poorer manners by asking her to pay at an expensive restaurant that YOU chose to take her to. No way she was going to kiss you - why would she want a kiss from someone that just tried to get her to pay for her own dinner?

Plus, by then I'm sure she could feel how salty you were for having to pay for her food - in effect, you allowed your own emotions about the situation to kill the mood. Had you simply paid for the food like it was no big deal, you could have probably gotten away with NOT going bowling and said "hey, let's go to the park" or some other free location, and $30 would have been all you spent on the evening.

So, yeah... lots of mistakes were made on this one. Despite this, though, she may still like you. Based on the questions she was asking you in the car about your long relationships (or lack thereof) and asking if you two click, you probably still have a shot. Just because she didn't kiss you doesn't mean she won't give you another shot - it just means she was turned off by the way you acted on the date and didn't feel like kissing you in that moment (which, based on all the stuff I said earlier, she was more than right to feel). I'd say ask her out again in a few days - only this time, pick an activity or dinner or movie or whatever it is that you can afford without asking her to pay.

Hope this helps!

 

[sageproduct]

Thx.

Let me clarify a few things

We actually ended up NOT going bowling. So $30 was all I spent. I know that's really not very much for a dinner. I was mostly just kind of mad at myself for poor planning plus a little caught off-guard to how she reacted to the bill. And I agree with you - I could have taken her somewhere free/cheap and she wouldn't have cared. Honestly though, I don't think she noticed my mood change.

I'm not mad about the paying thing as a result of not "getting anything out of it" - lol I'm not in it to pay a hooker's dinner in order to get some $ex. The reason why I didn't feel good about it was bc I got the sense that she felt entitled to it. I like treating people when they don't expect it.

Here's really the deal w/the paying thing - I really like doing nice things for people - whether its girls, friends, or family - as long as it's appreciated. I buy my friends **** every once in a while and I'll pay for something if I feel like it - its always a treat though that I do because I enjoy it. W/most girls I've gone out w/theyre always really appreciative when I pay for something, they'll offer to pay for their part or if not they'll be very eager to thank me. Never have I even been close to feeling like they were in it for a free meal. Because of that, I'm happy to pay for them. With this chick, I just got the impression that she was *expecting* it, so that's why I didn't really enjoy paying for her.

I think someone said the way a girl reacts to the bill can be a great litmus test for her character. But, in that same regard, the girl is likely thinking the same thing, so ya maybe I came off a little cheap. But in the same regard, a different girl could also perceive me paying for the whole thing as being chump-ish - so it really depends on the girl.

And @DownLow LOL she does not wear a burka. I wouldn't go for that man. I had no idea she's Muslim until we were having dinner.

There’s
making bold moves and stupidity. When you
went in for the kiss, you basically told her “Hey
I’m a white knight, reward me for buying
dinner.” Again, instead of standing your ground,
you came up with the gayest excuse ever.

Lol I think you have some anger toward me dude. You call me a pu$$y in the other thread for NOT going for the kiss on a 30 min boring outing filled w/bad conversation and now you call me stupid for going for the kiss after over an hour and half of flirting, kino, and venue changing. But thx for the input, you misinterpreted a couple things but I agree mostly

 

[Darth]

Just got home. Not feeling too hot.

So quick primer, I've gone on enough dates in my life by now to at least have an idea of what the score is. In my experience, most girls who go out with me are really good about money - as in they'll pay their half or at least offer to pay. The girl I went out with last year for a couple months would pay almost half every time, and another girl even paid for me in full once.

So, the issue of who pays on a date is generally not at the forefront of my mind.

The Chick

Turns 22 next month. On paper, she seems to totally be "my type". Same career goals, introverted, likes video games, doesn't like to drink/party/hang out in large groups, isn't attached to the hip to a bunch of friends.

Met her on Friday at the train station. Cold approached her, grabbed the number, texted for a couple days, called her on Monday, set up a date for tonight.

The Date

Picked her up at 7:30. Take her to the bowling alley, the wait time is an hour. Great. Oh well, I improvise, I ask her if she's hungry, she reveals that she hasn't eaten all day. Well, I improvise and head over to a semi-fancy Italian restaurant nearby. Beginning of the date was real cozy - we're linking arms, holding hands being all gay, that kind of sh1t. As we're sitting down:

Her: I feel bad because this place seems kind of expensive.
Me: It's ok, we can split it.

Conversation is decent. The vibe is going real well at times and we kind of cuddle sometimes. She orders some pasta and I end up getting salad because I already ate w/my family.

Check comes. I can't remember how it came up, but she brought up payment again

Me: I have no problem paying for you, but if you feel bad about me paying for you you can give me money
Her: I have money
Me: Cool, well either way
Her: Alright, I won't take away from your manliness then

And I paid $26 and left a $4 tip. Don't know why, but this kind of put a damper on my mood. In my past I had always been grateful just to land a date with a girl so I didn't really care if I spent $20 or something. This time, I had already spent $30, more than I've EVER spent on a date in my LIFE, AND the night wasn't over yet - we were supposed to go bowling.

Obviously, since my mood was shot a little our interaction suffered a bit. It was subtle, but I noticed it. Don't know if she did. For all the similarities I had to her, I started feeling like we didn't necessarilyl "click" that well. I took her to my car to drop off our leftover food, then we drove back over to the bowling alley.

The Kiss

Right before going back inside, I suddenly pulled her in and tried to kiss her. She pulled her head back and said "I don't kiss on the first date." I responded, "Oh no we're not kissing, I'm just getting as close as I can..." (she definitely didn't buy it) then kissed her on the cheek.

We go into the bowling alley. I'm not feeling good at all now and literally have to make an effort to conceal my mood. Thankfully, there's still a 20 minute wait at the bowling alley. I tell her it's ok, we can hang out for a couple min then I have to get home to my family.

Talk for a bit, the conversation is totally boring me now. I completely feel like I have no interest in this girl other than fwcking her now. It's so fwcking weird because she SEEMS like my "type". Idk. It's weird, being the way I am every girl I've gone a date w/I've always started to feel this strong attraction toward them, get this feeling that I would want to spend all the time in the world with them...and with this girl, despite her being everything that I "should" like, during our conversation I simply could not see myself spending significant amounts of time babbling with her.

I drive her home. During dinner she had VERY briefly alluded to an ex. On the car ride, the topic came up in passing again, and I ask:

Me: So you were in a pretty long relationship then? I just get that sense.
Her: Yeah...how about you? Have you been in any long relationships?
Me: Nope. Not at all.
Her: Really?
Me: Yeah.
Her: Why not?
Me: I don't click with most people. It's hard for me to find someone I click with.
Her: Do you think we click?
Me: (pulled the first answer out of my @$$ I could think of) I think we could double-click.

That topic died.

I drop her off. Get out of the car to give her a hug. Kiss her on the cheek a couple times, then say "You know the entire night I had to try so hard to keep myself from jumping you and making out" and she gave me a sarcastic sassy response.

She's not supposed to be the princess type though. I mean SHE'S A MUSLIM FOR FWCKS SAKE. (She's white though and decently hot).

Then, I get home and find that she texted me:

9:47pm Thanks for the awesome night! Drive safe and don't get lost
9:55 found my way home
9:57 I feel bad...I should have kissed you back! Have fun with your family

I honestly did not have a fwcking reply to this, I did not know what the f to say. Finally I came up with what I think was a decent reply:

10:09 Yeah you should have I was hoping you would leave lipstick marks on my cheek!
10:23 Marks huh? Sounds like you wanted more than one! Lol

I'm not used to this. Most of the girls I attract are the shy, unassuming type who would pretty much always pay their half or at least offer to. Maybe it's a good sign that I'm starting to attract a wider range of girls.

Bad dates always make me miss the good girls that I've had. I miss my redhead...I also miss my one-itis from last year

I've bolded everything I wouldn't have said
I think others have given you good advice- props for going out and doing something though. I know it is tough in the heat of the moment sometimes.

Let me redo your responses to fit me (and this is only my opinion of course). We are going with the premise that you have already decided to go to dinner- and if we're actually having dinner, man always pays IMO. Maybe a more salient point is should you have gotten this dinner since you don't know her at all. Maybe just walk around outside instead. It's a tough situation. But once you've decided on dinner, that's it. That's what it is...

Beginning of the date was just like two strangers who barely know each other because that's what it is. As we're sitting down:

Her: I feel bad because this place seems kind of expensive.
Me: Why feel bad? I decided to take you here, my treat. I have plenty of money- don't worry about it!

Conversation is decent. The vibe is going real well at times and we kind of almost touch sometimes (why give her affection unearned when you barely know the girl). She orders some pasta and I end up getting something other than salad, LOL because I already ate w/my family.

Check comes. I can't remember how it came up, but she brought up payment again

Me:Sit down. I will pay.
[/I][/B]Her: I have money
Me: I have money too. Stop it. I'll pay.
Her: Alright, I won't take away from your manliness then

And I paid $26 and left a $4 tip. I felt good about paying despite the high price tab for a first date because it was what I decided to do and I did it without female interference or complication.

I continued getting to know her and began to ask probing questions to determine her character.

The Kiss

Right before going back inside, I suddenly pulled her in and kissed her. She turned away but I still got the cheek. Then she said "I don't kiss on the first date." I responded, "Why, because you're a Muslim? Haha."

We go into the bowling alley. I'm feeling good now and make no effort to conceal my mood or anything else for that matter. Thankfully, there's still a 20 minute wait at the bowling alley. I tell her "Let's go home now."


I drive her home. During dinner she had VERY briefly alluded to an ex. On the car ride, the topic came up in passing again, and I ask:

Me: So you had a pretty long run then.
Her: Yeah...how about you? Have you been in any long relationships?
Me: No.
Her: Really?
Me: Yeah.
Her: Why not?
Me: I had other things to do.
Her: Do you think we click?
Me: I don't know, what do you think.

That topic died.

I drop her off. Get out of the car to give her a hug. Kiss her on the cheek a couple times, then say "You know normally I don't date Muslims." and she gave me a sarcastic sassy response.

Then, I get home and find that she texted me:

9:47pm Thanks for the awesome night! Drive safe and don't get lost
9:55 (I don't text)
9:57 I feel bad...I should have kissed you back! Have fun with your family

10:09 (I don't text)
10:23 Sounds like you wanted more than one! Lol

I call the next day. Or not. She seems interested now, so maybe try it again.

 

[J Roc]

I hope you learned your lesson. Stop taking women out to dinner on the first date. Make them earn it!

 

[Who Dares Win]

I guess the problem is not the dinner itself since it was you to chose the place which happen a restaurant instead of an hotdog stand.

What makes my bullsh1t o'meter beep are those text, I mean she was with you and didnt even accept a kiss, yet when you are far by text she says that "she should have kissed you" telling implicitly that a further date would get you a kiss.

Its a case of manipulation and cheap feminine game to me, she enjoy your attention but is not willing to reciprocate with her body.

If we follow the "forget words believe actions only" this girl is a no-go untill proven otherwise.

If I were you I would test her interest by making sure she has to move uncomfrtably to see you again, like taking a couple of bus...a girl which is willing to sit on a bus for an hour is interested usually.

If any discomfort is enough for her to quit you have your answer.

 

[JohnChops]

did anyone else laugh reading other peoples' responses to this thread? holy crap that was awesome. Nice try sage at least you put yourself out there

 

[bukowski_merit]

I was mostly just kind of mad at myself

That's it!

The issue was within yourself, and somewhat based on the knowledge you've gained from sites like this creeping into your dates.

Even happens to me sometimes.

Not too long ago, this girl said she wanted to hang out with me. I told her I wasn't doing anything, and she said to come over. I said, "nah, you come here"... We went back and fourth a little... And I ended up going over there.... And I HATED myself the whole night, and instead of us having fun - I basically treated her like sh!t (still fvcked her though )...

I know that's not exactly the same thing, but basically - you felt like you made a misstep and couldn't recover from it... It took an emotional toll on your night, and turned what should have been fun into something you over-analyzed and beat yourself up over... This trickled down to her, and you both had a sub-par date...

Not all is lost though - her indication that she should have kissed you does show minimal interest... I've fvcked women who rejected 1st date kisses.... Not the end of the world... And not worth worrying about.

Just focus on having fun and letting natural attraction build between you.

Don't think about this site.

Don't think about what people here think.

Don't think of rules.

Don't think about making the right move.

Just enjoy yourself. The rest will fall into place.

 

[ARrocket]

Maybe it's because I only got 30 minutes of sleep last night and the screen looks a little blurry...but I generally disagree with most responses in this thread.

I do agree that it's your own damn fault for taking her to the restaurant, and that you gotta keep your cool better than that.

But I don't think she's proven to be manipulative, a gold digger, or uninterested in you.

See her again, if you want. But for fvck's sake, just do something free/super cheap (near your place), and bring her over. Or, just invite her over! You'll get that kiss next time, and maybe more.

And guys...THERE ARE WOMEN THAT DON'T KISS ON THE FIRST DATE. THEY EXIST. THEY COULD STILL LIKE YOU.

 

[Who Dares Win]

And guys...THERE ARE WOMEN THAT DON'T KISS ON THE FIRST DATE. THEY EXIST. THEY COULD STILL LIKE YOU.

I would really love to believe it but in my experience none of the girls who didnt kiss me on first date/rejected my kiss ever became anything in my life, not even a fvck buddy.

While all the girls I banged either that same night or later kissed me at the first evening date or after meeting me at the club.

If a girl is denieng physical contact its either not interested or non interested an trying to get something out of it (you know like trying to get her guy nr1 while keeping you in standby).

In my experience of course.

 

[ARrocket]

I would really love to believe it but in my experience none of the girls who didnt kiss me on first date/rejected my kiss ever became anything in my life, not even a fvck buddy.

While all the girls I banged either that same night or later kissed me at the first evening date or after meeting me at the club.

If a girl is denieng physical contact its either not interested or non interested an trying to get something out of it (you know like trying to get her guy nr1 while keeping you in standby).

In my experience of course.

There's a fine line...you just have to trust your gut.

I'm seeing this girl now...could be heading to a LTR. First date, I got the cheek when I went for it at the end. But I had a good feeling about her, so I hit her up again. 2nd date, I held her hand a bit. Then kissed her on the cheek again. Then the lips. It was a slow, slow progression. Sometimes, they're just not comfortable moving fast. But you have to be comfortable moving slow, too...

But yeah, you can usually tell which case you're in (whether she is shy, or she just isn't interested). Your test can always just be inviting her to hang out with you again - if they're not getting dinner out of it, they won't agree to be alone with you if they know you're gonna try to kiss them :nervous:

 

[NewAndImproved]

A lot of great advice in this thread. Echoed about bowling dates. They used to be my go to first date but you really have to plan ahead, make reservations/go when you KNOW there won't be some kind of b-day party or league play clogging up the entire place. I've learned my lesson.

Also, you totally changed the DYNAMIC and EXPECTATIONS of the date after you realized you guys couldn't bowl.


Let me explain:

As both of you were anticipating bowling, the vibe was lo-key. Both of you were expecting a low-cost, low-pressure, fun action date.

Then all of a sudden a monkey wrench gets tossed in. You panicked. But instead of maybe finding an arcade or going to the bar to pass the time, you totally changed the entire dynamic of the date by going to a nice restaurant.

All of a sudden -- feeling a bit guilty (a good sign on her part IMO) she was worried about the cost... as were you.

All of a sudden -- the vibe went from fun & no pressure to a lot more pressure.

All of a sudden -- instead of going for a kiss close on the heels of a fun bowling date, you did it after a restaurant date that she was uncomfortable with and unprepared for. Like someone else said, the kiss felt like you wanted a reward for shelling out that kind of dough.

 

[sageproduct]

Thx everyone.

Ok so I haven't mentioned yet in this thread what I'm going to do next, but a few people have nailed it right on the head - basically I'm going to go silent 4-5 days, let her hamster run, then call her up, talk, and ask her out. Next date will FOR SURE not only be FREE, but also BY MY PLACE. I didn't mention this, but I live in the city, and she lives out in the suburbs about an hour away. I'm gonna make her take the train out to see me next time.

And btw I don't think my mood change was very noticeable to her - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she didn't notice a thing and thought that we both had a jolly good time all night. But you guys are right, I shouldn't have let things bother me



Also one more thing to clarify - my "double-click" comment in response to her asking me if I think we click was meant to be a diffusing non-answer, NOT an emphatic "Yeah baby I'm so in love with you". I think it was pretty obvious to her that it was a non-answer and not a real answer.

So here's the deal. Cold approaching women is good. It builds confidence when you get numbers, dates, etc. Problem is you're going out with a true stranger. You have no soft connection to them, it's literally someone you've never met before and impulsively introduced yourself to. This can be very intimidating to women initiatlly. So in a sense I like that you texted her early on. You gotta build rapport somehow, and text is in for chicks. It's less invasive and allows you to respond at your leisure.

I think what gets lost in a lot of PUA or game theory is the idea of mystery. Mystery isn't not texting (although I don't necessarily advocate texting) someone or talking to them. It's got more to do with unpredictability. You can text her, then not respond in 6 hours to whatever she says because you either have better things to do or you're trying to portray your busy-ness. She will perceive your lack of response as pretty mysterious. Not talking every day is a good thing as time away does indeed build mystery. But there comes a time where at a certain point, you are just straight up ignoring her, and she'll read that as more of a rejection than mysteriousness.

Anyway, that was my little rant. I don't have a problem with you building rapport early on with a cold approach. Otherwise you could be an axe murderer or some sh!t. You want to come off as cool and confident early on, while also being a mystery. It can be done, and I think people lose that fact in PUA and game where the mantra is to never talk unless it's a 2 minute phone conversation demanding a date.

Yeah exactly. She literally told me when we were in the car that she had three different people (including her best friend since 9 years old) trying to talk her out of the date, telling her she's always too trusting of people, telling her how sketchy it was that a complete stranger approached her and hit on her at the train station like I did.

*When you go in for a kiss its gotta feel right. Don't just blindly try and kiss a girl without having any type of gauge in interest. You already did the cold approach, don't try a cold kiss. Read her signs. Buying Signals. Licking lips. Her initiating body contact. Easy conversationalist. Attentive. Knees and feet pointed toward you. Following your lead. Eye Contact. All of those things will tell you if she's into it. Ultimately, follow your gut. If you have anyyyyyy feeling that she is into you, go for it. If it just feels wrong, stay away.

Yaaa this man. I'm definitely sloppy in escalating to the kiss. Don't have a great sense of when to do it - I've just been going for it no matter what on the first date, driven by haunted memories of endless friend zones. The girls who did let me kiss them were okay with it because they already liked me, even if my timing was a bit off.

I hope you learned your lesson. Stop taking women out to dinner on the first date. Make them earn it!

Yeah this actually might have been the first time I've ever done dinner on the first date. Even before this I don't like the idea of dinner for a first date, or for any date in general. So cliche and unoriginal. It wasn't the plan though, just an unfortunate progression of events that I ALLOWED - bowling plans getting shot, then me feeling like I should grab food with her since she was hungry, then me walking us into the wrong restaurant - an expensive one.

What makes my bullsh1t o'meter beep are those text, I mean she was with you and didnt even accept a kiss, yet when you are far by text she says that "she should have kissed you" telling implicitly that a further date would get you a kiss.

Its a case of manipulation and cheap feminine game to me, she enjoy your attention but is not willing to reciprocate with her body.

If we follow the "forget words believe actions only" this girl is a no-go untill proven otherwise.

If I were you I would test her interest by making sure she has to move uncomfrtably to see you again, like taking a couple of bus...a girl which is willing to sit on a bus for an hour is interested usually.

If any discomfort is enough for her to quit you have your answer.

Yeah man this is how I feel exactly. That's exactly my plan - invite her to come out near by me (she'll have to pay $5 for a 50 minute train ride) for a FREE date. I'd say in terms of skepticism toward women, I rank pretty low on this board...yet I find my bullsh1t radar beeping here. Hopefully I'm wrong.

That's it!

The issue was within yourself, and somewhat based on the knowledge you've gained from sites like this creeping into your dates.

Even happens to me sometimes.

Not too long ago, this girl said she wanted to hang out with me. I told her I wasn't doing anything, and she said to come over. I said, "nah, you come here"... We went back and fourth a little... And I ended up going over there.... And I HATED myself the whole night, and instead of us having fun - I basically treated her like sh!t (still fvcked her though )...

I know that's not exactly the same thing, but basically - you felt like you made a misstep and couldn't recover from it... It took an emotional toll on your night, and turned what should have been fun into something you over-analyzed and beat yourself up over... This trickled down to her, and you both had a sub-par date...

Not all is lost though - her indication that she should have kissed you does show minimal interest... I've fvcked women who rejected 1st date kisses.... Not the end of the world... And not worth worrying about.

Just focus on having fun and letting natural attraction build between you.

Don't think about this site.

Don't think about what people here think.

Don't think of rules.

Don't think about making the right move.

Just enjoy yourself. The rest will fall into place.

Message well taken.

See her again, if you want. But for fvck's sake, just do something free/super cheap (near your place), and bring her over. Or, just invite her over! You'll get that kiss next time, and maybe more.

Yup. In fact, this would be a PERFECT test - if she's a gold-digger, then she would be getting nothing she wants and giving what she doesn't want to give.

Like someone else said, the kiss felt like you wanted a reward for shelling out that kind of dough.

I really, really, REALLY hope I did not come off that way to her. I just HATE when one person does something for another and it sets the frame of expectation for some sort of reciprocation. Besides, $30 and an hour of entertainment for just a KISS is probably top-tier price for a top-tier prostitute