Copping with the fact that you have average looks

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

... after she moved to the US.

My mother didn't move to the U.S. until she was in her late 20's. By that age, a person is set in the culture of their birth place.

Let me spell it out for you, you're good with math right?

The reason why height doesn't seem to matter as much in other countries is because the average height is lower. Let's say you're 5'7.

The average male height in the U.S. is 5'10. So that means you're sh*t outta luck. You move to Vietnam, the average male height is 5'4. Of course your height isn't going to matter as much because you are considered tall.

I thought nerds were supposed to be smart...

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Ah, so Lyle Lovett must be of the same caliber of Julia Roberts and Seal must be as good looking as Heidi Klum (despite his facial disfiguration) since you know, you can only "get women at your looks level and below."



Ok, I never said I was tall and good-looking. I am a few inches above average height (same height as Brad Pitt so I don't worry too much about it), and the girls and gay guys volunteer the comments about my looks...not me. When I look in the mirror I do not see a good-looking guy.



Yeah, you're probably right. They just prefer to give all their cash to the homeless instead of trading in that '93 Honda Accord for a Lamborghini. That's much more likely than the last 150 years of scientific research about sexual selection actually being correct.

Lovitt is a musician, a famous one at that. He has an angle.

Seal is 6'4 with a good build. He also has very masculine features such as a square jawline. Women find that very attractive. The scars on his face only add to his tough guy look.

And he is a world famous musician.


Bro, you have low self esteem. I assure you once you f*ck over 20 women, that starts to go away.

I've f*cked almost 40 women, gone out with over a hundred. Women have said terrible things to me and it slides off me.

 

[El Indio G]

Self pity doesn't help you any either. You give away any power you have when you search for validation from someone who doesn't know you or care.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Lovitt is a musician, a famous one at that. He has an angle.

Bro. You're telling me that Lyle Lovett nailed Julia Roberts because of his FAME? You do realize, of course, that Julia Roberts is an A-list actress...one of the few that pulls 20 mil a picture, right? Far more people have heard of Julia Roberts than Lyle Lovett. So this was no factor.

Seal is 6'4 with a good build. He also has very masculine features such as a square jawline. Women find that very attractive. The scars on his face only add to his tough guy look.

Oh, so now it's looking TOUGH that matters. Not being good-looking. See, you're changing your tune yet again. You really gotta stick to your arguments, dude. Changing s.hit around like this all the time does no good for the points you are trying to make. Seal is an ugly guy. Heidi Klum is a hot chick. They're married. With children. Your rationale? "Oh, his scars make him look tough and he's tall." Get the hell out of here, dude. Yeah, there's a real shortage of tall good-looking guys that look tough in this world. That's why Heidi Klum had to settle for a tall ugly guy that looks tough.

And he is a world famous musician.

Again, Heidi Klum DESTROYS Seal's fame and money. Heidi Klum is an internationally renowned supermodel, and when she married Seal...she was one of the highest paid. Seal had a song that was featured in the film "Batman Forever" that became popular for a little while in the 90's. You're really reaching, here.

Bro, you have low self esteem. I assure you once you f*ck over 20 women, that starts to go away.

Well I'm about halfway there and I've gotten worse over time. I don't know what you're basing this on. This conversation isn't about me, anyway. This is about why you think Seal is on the same looks-level as Heidi Klum.

 

[playergamehater]

I hate and despise this, but I have adapted to it a long time ago, it's the fact that us guys success with girls always or usually comes down to our social skills, conversation skills, overall, how we talk, think, breathe, attitude, etc. For girls, they just have to be born cute and look good, thats all

 

[OneofOne]

Yes, but height is more important for women. Back in cave man days, women wanted men that could protect them and height was the most obvious indicator of fitness.

Women are still under the old program, taller is better. The exceptions being giants.

For me, I don't give a sh*t if she's 4'10 or 5'10, as long as she has a nice body and is cute.

You know, the height thing, to me, is similar to when chicks say to a nice guy "why can't I find a guy like you?" It's not valid.

I'm average height, 5'9" and the last few girls I've been with were taller than me. In fact, when I think back to before I started learning game and improving myself, when I had zero skills, the few girls I managed to date were taller than me except for 1.

These days most of the girls that like me right off are taller than me, and I think it's down to one thing. My confidence about my body is pretty high now. I started working out 5 years ago to gain weight, I was 135 lbs and bony, now I'm 180 lbs and built like a boxer, not like Tyson, more like Mayweather. I even took up boxing as a way to let out anger. I feel awesome about myself physically and it comes across when people meet me.

I think this eases women's "need for protection" instinct somewhat. So my height never becomes a factor.

I have to agree with everyone who says "hit the gym", it is the best thing you can do for your self-image. I've seen that for myself and I'm a guy who considered himself below average looking. Granted my face will never morph into that of Trey Songz or anything, but there are enough women out there that tend to overlook that with me nowadays.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

You know, the height thing, to me, is similar to when chicks say to a nice guy "why can't I find a guy like you?" It's not valid.

I'm average height, 5'9" and the last few girls I've been with were taller than me. In fact, when I think back to before I started learning game and improving myself, when I had zero skills, the few girls I managed to date were taller than me except for 1.

These days most of the girls that like me right off are taller than me, and I think it's down to one thing. My confidence about my body is pretty high now. I started working out 5 years ago to gain weight, I was 135 lbs and bony, now I'm 180 lbs and built like a boxer, not like Tyson, more like Mayweather. I even took up boxing as a way to let out anger. I feel awesome about myself physically and it comes across when people meet me.

I think this eases women's "need for protection" instinct somewhat. So my height never becomes a factor.

I have to agree with everyone who says "hit the gym", it is the best thing you can do for your self-image. I've seen that for myself and I'm a guy who considered himself below average looking. Granted my face will never morph into that of Trey Songz or anything, but there are enough women out there that tend to overlook that with me nowadays.

Height isn't a factor for you because like you said it yourself: you're average height.

I'm 5'5. Well below the average height of 5'10 in the US. Height is a big factor and something I had to overcome and am still overcoming.

FYI, I walk around 181 to 187. Mike Tyson build. Which is funny because back when I fought as a boxer, I had the exact same fighting style.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Bro. You're telling me that Lyle Lovett nailed Julia Roberts because of his FAME? You do realize, of course, that Julia Roberts is an A-list actress...one of the few that pulls 20 mil a picture, right? Far more people have heard of Julia Roberts than Lyle Lovett. So this was no factor.



Oh, so now it's looking TOUGH that matters. Not being good-looking. See, you're changing your tune yet again. You really gotta stick to your arguments, dude. Changing s.hit around like this all the time does no good for the points you are trying to make. Seal is an ugly guy. Heidi Klum is a hot chick. They're married. With children. Your rationale? "Oh, his scars make him look tough and he's tall." Get the hell out of here, dude. Yeah, there's a real shortage of tall good-looking guys that look tough in this world. That's why Heidi Klum had to settle for a tall ugly guy that looks tough.



Again, Heidi Klum DESTROYS Seal's fame and money. Heidi Klum is an internationally renowned supermodel, and when she married Seal...she was one of the highest paid. Seal had a song that was featured in the film "Batman Forever" that became popular for a little while in the 90's. You're really reaching, here.



Well I'm about halfway there and I've gotten worse over time. I don't know what you're basing this on. This conversation isn't about me, anyway. This is about why you think Seal is on the same looks-level as Heidi Klum.

Sigh...

You're a real headcase.

Like I've said in previous posts, woman have different criteria. For women HEIGHT is the number 1 factor in attraction. Then comes face, after body. Or the reverse for other women.

You might think Seal is ugly. I assure you that Heidi considers him hot.

You put Heidi on a pedastal because she's this supermodel. I don't find her attractive. Too skinny and too manly looking.

Seriously bro, try therapy.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Like I've said in previous posts, woman have different criteria. For women HEIGHT is the number 1 factor in attraction. Then comes face, after body. Or the reverse for other women.

Yikes. You are out of it. If you're going to be making outrageous statements like that, you need to provide some sort of evidence. Height is the number one factor? Why, because you're short and are insecure about it? Height is NOT the number one factor for female attraction. Hint: It's nothing physical. Seriously, though. Evidence. Sources. Otherwise, you're just another guy talking out of his ass.

You might think Seal is ugly. I assure you that Heidi considers him hot.

How can you assure me that? I mean, you have absolutely nothing to back it up. First you said he was good-looking, but after I destroyed that you came out and said "Oh, well uh...he's TOUGH looking." Then after I called you on that garbage, you're back to saying he's hot again. I bet if you start asking around on the street, you won't find be able to find one woman that finds Seal attractive. Hell, you can even make it more general and start asking if they find facial disfigurements attractive. You're writing checks your ass can't cash. I can back up my statements with 150 years of scientific research. Can you do that, TheAsianLoverReturns?

You put Heidi on a pedastal because she's this supermodel.

No, you missed the point. I don't find her particularly attractive either but the point is that she can snag any dude she wants, including celebrities. She chose the ugly dude over a good-looking guy, which shatters your little preconceptions that are derived from your shame of being short and Asian.

 

[FairShake]

OP and all posters who obsess about looks, are you guys just trying to convince yourselves not to try? For those of us who are below average looking we KNOW looks matter and there is no need to debate it to flesh out the details. We have experiences like meeting a friend of a friend on the phone, making great connections where they are beside themselves with how great you are, texting or emailing them a pic/meeting them for a date and never hearing from them again. If people want to argue the point why bother? Clearly they have not had your experiences.

But, this much I do know. Looks are not the only thing in your repoitoire. There's personality, social status, money, "fame", or just being a good guy (when you're older). Just because you're lacking in the looks department doesn't mean you can't work these other aspects to their greatest potential. Fine tune yourself in every area you can. If you don't find success after that, then you can ***** and moan about looks holding you back.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Yikes. You are out of it. If you're going to be making outrageous statements like that, you need to provide some sort of evidence. Height is the number one factor? Why, because you're short and are insecure about it? Height is NOT the number one factor for female attraction. Hint: It's nothing physical. Seriously, though. Evidence. Sources. Otherwise, you're just another guy talking out of his ass.



How can you assure me that? I mean, you have absolutely nothing to back it up. First you said he was good-looking, but after I destroyed that you came out and said "Oh, well uh...he's TOUGH looking." Then after I called you on that garbage, you're back to saying he's hot again. I bet if you start asking around on the street, you won't find be able to find one woman that finds Seal attractive. Hell, you can even make it more general and start asking if they find facial disfigurements attractive. You're writing checks your ass can't cash. I can back up my statements with 150 years of scientific research. Can you do that, TheAsianLoverReturns?



No, you missed the point. I don't find her particularly attractive either but the point is that she can snag any dude she wants, including celebrities. She chose the ugly dude over a good-looking guy, which shatters your little preconceptions that are derived from your shame of being short and Asian.

Wow... Your mommy must have beat you really bad as a kid.

I can never understand the humiliation you have felt. I have always been extremely strong and at the age of 6, I was able to take away the bat my mom tried to use to beat me.

Even being tall and good looking, you will always be a punk around women.

I feel for you buddy. Either way, when you're ready to change, let me know. I can help you.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Wow... Your mommy must have beat you really bad as a kid.

Nope. I've always been a facts guy. Theory and conjecture never really did it for me, and I didn't need my "mommy" to beat me into understanding that the scientific method always wins out over the kinds of hunches that you and your ilk like to toss out.

Even being tall and good looking, you will always be a punk around women.

Glad to see you've come around, man. It's a hard fact of life to realize that looks don't matter, but once you see it...there's nothing more liberating.

 

[Ice882]

Yikes. You are out of it. If you're going to be making outrageous statements like that, you need to provide some sort of evidence. Height is the number one factor? Why, because you're short and are insecure about it? Height is NOT the number one factor for female attraction. Hint: It's nothing physical. Seriously, though. Evidence. Sources. Otherwise, you're just another guy talking out of his ass.



How can you assure me that? I mean, you have absolutely nothing to back it up. First you said he was good-looking, but after I destroyed that you came out and said "Oh, well uh...he's TOUGH looking." Then after I called you on that garbage, you're back to saying he's hot again. I bet if you start asking around on the street, you won't find be able to find one woman that finds Seal attractive. Hell, you can even make it more general and start asking if they find facial disfigurements attractive. You're writing checks your ass can't cash. I can back up my statements with 150 years of scientific research. Can you do that, TheAsianLoverReturns?



No, you missed the point. I don't find her particularly attractive either but the point is that she can snag any dude she wants, including celebrities. She chose the ugly dude over a good-looking guy, which shatters your little preconceptions that are derived from your shame of being short and Asian.

I'm actually forced to agree with JASA right now....

that's never happened before.

I will say its disturbing how often you show up in these looks matter threads, though. Almost as disturbing as the fact that you guys start this same thread every two weeks and debate it all over again. That what's really creepy.


But seriously, I've never seen someone argue themselves in a full circle before. Asian Lover just did the impossible, rofl.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Man I'm talking to a bunch of morons...

Women run on a different program than men. Men IN GENERAL, the straight ones, like women with cute faces and hot bodies. Now what is a hot body is different for every man, but that's what we like. Nice personality is a bonus.

Women are a bit different.

Some like pretty boys. Perfectly symmetrical faces, tall and slim.

Some like tough guys. They can even have facial disfigurements, in fact scars can make them look more attractive to these women.

Some like the James Bond type. Good looking, but not pretty. Smooth, well dressed.

Some like muscle guys, they love a hot body.

See how different they are.

However, there are universals. Most women would prefer a guy that is 6 feet or taller over a guy that is 5'7. Most would prefer a guy that is 5'7 over a guy that is 5'2.

The taller you are, the more options you have with women. The better looking you are, the better looking women you can attract.

This is applies to all of the regular guys in the game. The 95%. You can't use examples like Seal and Heidi Klum. THEY ARE CELEBRITIES. Fame is a very different animal.

Use your common sense. Look at all of the couples you see when you go about your day. Use your head moron.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Women run on a different program than men. Men IN GENERAL, the straight ones, like women with cute faces and hot bodies.

Indeed. Men desire looks. Therefore, as you stated, since women run on a "different program" they do NOT desire looks. This comes as no surprise to anyone who has done their homework on this topic.

However, there are universals. Most women would prefer a guy that is 6 feet or taller over a guy that is 5'7.

Statistics. Scientific journals. Polling. Any credible source to back up your claims will do just fine.

The better looking you are, the better looking women you can attract.

Nope. Men = visual. Women = emotional. I thought we made a breakthrough on your last post, too.

THEY ARE CELEBRITIES. Fame is a very different animal.

Oh, I see. Once a woman becomes famous, she desires ugly dudes. I'm getting it now. Oh, but wait a second...you said you can ASSURE me that Heidi Klum thinks Seal is "hot." You also say that normal women are all about looks, just as men are. So, if what you say about famous women being "different animals" is true, then these women would seek out UGLY dudes...which would be the reverse M.O. from everyday girls. We have a paradox here, my friend. To further add to your list of contradictions, you said women operate on a different program than men. Since men operate on the program of seeking out the best-looking girls possible, what you said about women wanting tall, good-looking guys can't be true, or else that would mean they operate on the same program! Chief, you need to go back to the drawing board and sort this out in your head before you come on here to spread your propaganda. You're getting way too mixed up to participate in this discussion.

Use your common sense. Look at all of the couples you see when you go about your day.

I do. Lots of ugly guys with hot girls, which was my original point. So what?

 

[Elky]

Height isn't everything at all. I am 5'5, and am able to attract women without doing anything at all.

The fact is, every girl is interested in a different type of guy. But you also don't have to necessarily have all the attributes that their ideal type of guy would have. One is enough. From there it would depend on your game, and how important you are to her.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Holy sh*t...

Just because you have low self-esteem and happen to be good looking doesn't mean looks don't matter. Looks and confidence are a package deal. Looks alone won't get you sh*t, maybe the occasional aggressive chick. Confidence alone with get you average looking women. Both will get you hot women.

You consider Seal ugly because he was scarred by lupus. YOU. You are not Heidi Klum.

BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

I consider a woman with a small waist, wide hips and thick legs to be attractive. You might like the boyish type of girl and call her fat.

You fail to realize that in spite of his scars, he has desirable physical traits. Being 6'4 is a height that most men would kill for. He has a strong jawline, a trait that is considered masculine and desired by women.

You told me about those ugly slobs with hot women. IN HOLLYWOOD. Let's compare apples with apples.

An average short fat ugly dude isn't going to get a hot woman. PERIOD.

As for studies...

Analysis
It is not surprising that taller men are preferred more often than shorter men. While the medium height (see Height Analyzer) for men in the United States is 5' 8½", the most preferred height for a man is 6' 0". This is true for almost any combination of woman's attributes. We did find some interesting differentiation. For a short man (5' 4" and shorter) living in the United States, the best states to live in are Idaho, Maine, Vermont, and Wyoming. A short man has a greater chance of being included in a woman's preferences. This is probably because these states have relatively low populations. Women have fewer choices and so are more likely to compromise and include a shorter man in their preferences. In contrast, California, New York, New Jersey, Washington D.C., Nevada and Arizona are the worst states for a short man. In these states, women's expectations are highest, again probably because the states are so populous and there are many choices.

http://www.shortsupport.org/Research/personals.html

20/20 Report - Are Short Men at a Disadvantage in Romance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR3YR1ZTonc

For example, the study showed a 5-foot-9-inch man needs to make $30,000 more than a 5-foot-10-inch one to be as successful in the dating pool.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/02/13/1244109/online-love-life-worlds-just-not.html

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Holy ****...

Just because you have low self-esteem and happen to be good looking doesn't mean looks don't matter.

True. The 150 years of scientific research that shows that females desire traits that indicate that the male will be able to provide for her and her young, protect the nest, and produce viable offspring means that looks don't matter. Nobel-prize winning scientists saying looks don't matter means that looks don't matter. Understand?

You consider Seal ugly because he was scarred by lupus. YOU. You are not Heidi Klum.

BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

I don't consider Seal ugly. I never really gave it much thought. I CAN however, tell when a man has been facially disfigured. Listen. The whole f.uckin' world considers Seal ugly. Like I said, go around and ask chicks on the street to rate him 1-10 if you don't believe me. He seems like a cool dude, has a good voice, and "Kiss from a Rose" is an awesome song. He just happens to be in the bottom tier in the looks department.

Being 6'4 is a height that most men would kill for. He has a strong jawline, a trait that is considered masculine by women.

No, you're just obsessed with height. I wouldn't want to be 6'4. Be unable to blend in with a crowd and have everyone ask me how tall I am all the time? No thank you. YOU, on the other hand have a lifelong Napoleon complex and would probably kill to be 6'4. You have this idea in your mind that if only you were a little taller, you'd be able to get better-looking women...somehow. His jaw may be masculine (I personally don't think so, but that's neither here nor there), but the fact remains that women consider him to be an ugly man.

Perhaps you should talk to this guy for comfort and support with dealing with your preoccupation with your height:

I am 5'5, and am able to attract women without doing anything at all.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

True. The 150 years of scientific research that shows that females desire traits that indicate that the male will be able to provide for her and her young, protect the nest, and produce viable offspring means that looks don't matter. Nobel-prize winning scientists saying looks don't matter means that looks don't matter. Understand?



I don't consider Seal ugly. I never really gave it much thought. I CAN however, tell when a man has been facially disfigured. Listen. The whole f.uckin' world considers Seal ugly. Like I said, go around and ask chicks on the street to rate him 1-10 if you don't believe me. He seems like a cool dude, has a good voice, and "Kiss from a Rose" is an awesome song. He just happens to be in the bottom tier in the looks department.



No, you're just obsessed with height. I wouldn't want to be 6'4. Be unable to blend in with a crowd and have everyone ask me how tall I am all the time? No thank you. YOU, on the other hand have a lifelong Napoleon complex and would probably kill to be 6'4. You have this idea in your mind that if only you were a little taller, you'd be able to get better-looking women...somehow. His jaw may be masculine (I personally don't think so, but that's neither here nor there), but the fact remains that women consider him to be an ugly man.

Perhaps you should talk to this guy for comfort and support with dealing with your preoccupation with your height:

Listen up care bear.

I never said height was a factor that doomed you to celibacy.

I'm 5'5 GENIUS.

I F*CKED 37 women in a 2 year time period. I put my work in the game.

Let's keep it real. Looks matter. Height matters. Confidence matters. Money matters.

It all matters. Now you need to work on your own self esteem and stop biting the hand that could feed you.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

What the hell is this, dude? I hope your career has no link to science.

http://www.shortsupport.org/Research/personals.html

This refers to online ads, where women have nothing else to go on but looks (which height falls into.) You also conveniently left out the caveat the website provides, which is a horrifically disingenuous move that shows a severe lack of confidence in the source:

This study provides a strong indication of what women who use online personals ads want in a man with respect to his height. However, these conclusions may not necessarily translate to the larger population of woman who are dating but prefer to meet men in other venues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR3YR1ZTonc

Diane Sawyer asked 4 women about 4 men that may or may not have the exact same levels of confidence and facial symmetry in the 1980's. I'm impressed, man. Talk about a smoking gun.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/02/13/1244109/online-love-life-worlds-just-not.html

Again with the online ads. Please.

I'm 5'5 GENIUS.

I F*CKED 37 women in a 2 year time period. I put my work in the game.

Awesome. I guess height doesn't matter after all. Elky doesn't even need game. He attracts women without, quote, "doing anything at all" and he's the exact same height as you. I'm as tall as Brad Pitt and I haven't had sex with a fraction of the amount of women you have in my entire LIFE (almost the same age as you as well), and turn women OFF without doing anything at all. So weird...I mean, if you don't know the science behind sexual selection of course.

Let's keep it real. Looks matter. Height matters. Confidence matters. Money matters.

You're totally right. Except the bit about looks and height, of course. Those two matter so little that the affect on one's love life is negligible.