Clubgame vs Daygame

[SoylentGreen]

I've been hibernating most of the long cold winter here in Canada and have just recently started going to clubs again and boy, it's taking its toll on my patience.

The music is waaaay too loud to talk comfortably. Half the dudes there are DOUBLE the size of me. Every girl I see, has like four - six guys surrounding her so you can't get into her area to talk to her. Even if they aren't with the girl, some dudes are just planting themselves in the way of other guys. Plus, where I live, people won't shoot you or stab you, but they WILL beat your ass down in a second so you gotta watch what you are doing when your my size. Also, where I live people are BIG. Lots of farm boys whereas I'm not much bigger than most girls. I'm doubtful that I can fully MASTER clubgame under these circumstances. Plus, I f-ing hate dance music, I'm a rocker, I play guitar and listen to heavy metal like Tool, Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and other hard rock bands.

I think I am sick of clubs...girls will often glance at me and sometimes I get a half smile, but overall, I think there is waaay too much competition, specifically where I live, and I'm not getting very good "vibes" from girls. Also, the music is SOOO loud its hard to even hear my OWN voice. I tried asking a girl if its normal for girls to snoop and I had to say it about four times before she finally heard me and then midway into her telling me her opinion, her friend came and PULLED her away from me to talk to some big firefighter-sized dudes...all in all it was super annoying.

Now...in the daytime I get heaps of interest and attraction. Usually, there is no competition. You don't have to yell to be heard. And usually her friends are NOT there. I get a much better and uninterrupted chance to shine. I think it is going to be my method of choice. Its so much easier. There are downfalls of course: she's not looking for anyone, she's in a rush, etc. But overall, I think its much, much better. I get alot more phone numbers during the day.

I'm not saying I'm an authority on either scene. But I would love to hear from some of you seasoned Don Juan's and find out your take on my views and maybe get some advice for each situation.

Maybe its just that I have weak game when it comes to nightclubs...I don't know. I honestly don't see how I can get around all the LOUD music and "Brad Pitts" walking around which just distract the girl I'm trying to pick up...how do you all do this without going insane?

 

[Jeffst1980]

You got it. Play to your strengths--if you are in an uncomfortable situation, you aren't going to present your best self to the women you meet. If you are in a place where you can hold court, there is no limit to what you can pull.

Clubs seem like a great place in theory b/c of the sheer numbers of hot single girls that frequent them--however, most of those girls are not really "single"--they are just looking for entertainment, and watching guys compete for them is like the freakin circus to them.

I'm an ok dancer, so I used to go to clubs when I was younger, thinking it'd give me a leg up on the competition. It got me more attention from drunk chicks, but that's about it. There also were a lot of big angry dudes that would show up believing that they were entitled to every girl there, and I didn't have the social intelligence to blow them out AND avoid a fight.

Nowadays I just go to chill bars where the music isn't too loud and there are less distractions--you don't get the same parade of HBs, but when one comes through, you have a much better shot. In fact, just being on this site and occasionally reading threads will give you better skills than most guys that go to low key bars. In addition, starting fights over a girl is a major transgression at these kind of places, whereas they seem to be built into the culture at clubs.

I like day game a lot, too. Girls actually prefer being picked up in the daytime, because it has a bit of a romantic comedy vibe to it--as though fate brought you together at a random time. Try to game girls at extremely unlikely situations--in line at the post office or at the library (there was a guy here that picked up a girl by passing her notes at the library, don't know where the thread is but it was good stuff). Getting rejected is a bit more awkward in these situations, but if you succeed the girls rarely flake.

I did a thread on some of this stuff here: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=158090

 

[squirrels]

Find less-noisy places to go sarge.

The "club" is all about loud music. You can't converse. You HAVE to look big and strong, or well-dressed and stylish, or be a good dancer to pull the women. It's all about high-energy and appearance. You can't pull that ASF canned routine crap there.

Places with outdoor bars often are easier because the music travels instead of reverberating.

 

[SoylentGreen]

You got it. Play to your strengths--if you are in an uncomfortable situation, you aren't going to present your best self to the women you meet. If you are in a place where you can hold court, there is no limit to what you can pull.

Clubs seem like a great place in theory b/c of the sheer numbers of hot single girls that frequent them--however, most of those girls are not really "single"--they are just looking for entertainment, and watching guys compete for them is like the freakin circus to them.

I'm an ok dancer, so I used to go to clubs when I was younger, thinking it'd give me a leg up on the competition. It got me more attention from drunk chicks, but that's about it. There also were a lot of big angry dudes that would show up believing that they were entitled to every girl there, and I didn't have the social intelligence to blow them out AND avoid a fight.

Nowadays I just go to chill bars where the music isn't too loud and there are less distractions--you don't get the same parade of HBs, but when one comes through, you have a much better shot. In fact, just being on this site and occasionally reading threads will give you better skills than most guys that go to low key bars. In addition, starting fights over a girl is a major transgression at these kind of places, whereas they seem to be built into the culture at clubs.

I like day game a lot, too. Girls actually prefer being picked up in the daytime, because it has a bit of a romantic comedy vibe to it--as though fate brought you together at a random time. Try to game girls at extremely unlikely situations--in line at the post office or at the library (there was a guy here that picked up a girl by passing her notes at the library, don't know where the thread is but it was good stuff). Getting rejected is a bit more awkward in these situations, but if you succeed the girls rarely flake.

I did a thread on some of this stuff here: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=158090

Thanks man, I checked that thread out...the clip of the violinist is hilarious and eye-opening. That's totally me when I'm at the club sometimes. I see what you mean about context and being in the right place at the right time and yeah sometimes its probably wisest to just WALK AWAY. I play a pretty mean guitar but a dance bar no one gives a sh1t about that, but if I go to an open mic jam or something I'll be high value there.. I get what you're saying about those lower key places or meeting in an unlikely spot like the library, much better odds and less chance of flaking for sure.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Find less-noisy places to go sarge.

The "club" is all about loud music. You can't converse. You HAVE to look big and strong, or well-dressed and stylish, or be a good dancer to pull the women. It's all about high-energy and appearance. You can't pull that ASF canned routine crap there.

Places with outdoor bars often are easier because the music travels instead of reverberating.

Very true: Girls get all done up; hair, clothes, makeup etc. to impress guys. So when they go out to a "meat market" they are naturally going to start at the TOP of the food chain in terms of choosing men - strongest, tallest, handsomest, best dancer, best dressed. I can't blame them. I'm not anywhere near the top of the food chain, I'm like halfway down but I can see the internal rationalization that a woman may possess.

I wouldn't get all fancied up and go to a nightclub and pick up a fat chick. It wouldn't be worth all that prepartion. Once I hit on ALL the hot girls and they ALL say no, then yeah MAYBE I'd take the fat one.

At a quieter place, I will have a better opportunity to convey more of my personality and I don't have to compete with the loud music and intense party atmosphere...I just need to find calmer spots to hang out at I guess.

 

[#41]

I find, lately, that most bars around here are stuffed to the gills with dudes. It's almost comical, but the ratio is at least 2-1 guys to girls everywhere I go, even the clubs.

 

[SoylentGreen]

I find, lately, that most bars around here are stuffed to the gills with dudes. It's almost comical, but the ratio is at least 2-1 guys to girls everywhere I go, even the clubs.

Very true...it's ridiculous. For every girl there's at least two guys.

So if you have 100 girls in the place there's going to be 200 guys.
Out of that 200 there's likely at least 50 that are getting all the attraction from the women based on looks alone.

Theres another 10-20 guys probably just looking for fights or posing like
tough guys.

And then there are about 80-100 afc's hitting on women while dancing like geeks, and buying them drinks.

There's probably another 20 or so guys just standing around looking bored or insecure.

Then I come along....I don't have the attraction based solely on looks, I don't buy them drinks and I don't like dancing. I have good body language, a positive attitude and great "chitchat". Out of 200 dudes theres probably 20-30 that are like me - just trying to have a conversation with a woman. And we have to yell at the top of our lungs to even be heard.

And on top of this, most of the girls are too busy staring at the buff guy with the gold chain or looking for the next chump to buy them a drink or looking for a dance-guy to give them some attention in front of their friends. Its sickening. I don't mind going out for drinks and I have taken girls home with me. All I'm saying is I may have to switch up my technique in dance clubs or change my location. Being that I really don't want to dance, or YELL at girls its just easier for me to find a better location.

 

[The Bat]

You have to go to a club with a group of mixed-gender friends. Call up bunch of people, have them invite others, and go there with them and meet them up. Social proof is a must in the club environment. I'd say that social proof is a must even in low-key or outdoor type of bars.

If you aren't a very good-looking guy, or don't have the vibe of a rockstar, then you aren't taking any of those hot women home. That is the reality. No girl gives a fvck about your DHV stories or your "prize" mentality...a hot girl at a club has 10x more options than a typical guy at the club.

Try low-key bars, dive bars, outdoor bars, lounges, etc. though. Music is not as loud, the vibe is a bit more relaxed, and you can actually hold a decent conversation with the women there.

You could always frequent the places where you go on open nights to play your guitar. You will come across tons of people who will remember you from your act, and that can always be a good thing (unless you sucked horribly in your act which I don't think is the problem lol).

 

[Duffdog]

The club game is kind of getting old for me now. You only have to do like 8 things and you can have a girl. Unfortunately, do you really want a club girl? How many nights of taking some random girl home is enough? Here is how you get a girl at a club:

1: Be a big, mean a55hole. Dress like a total douchebag on purpose because you want all the attention even if its negative attention from other guys. It doesn't matter because you are bigger than they are and can smash their face into the ground anyways. Be sure to drive a Lexus, BMW or MBZ.

2: Arrive at the club with 3 hot girls in tow

3: walk directly to the front of the line and throw out some b.s. line that you are with the DJ (because you know him) and that the three girls behind you are on the guest list.

4: Be sure to high five all the security guards and introduce them to the 3 girls you brought with you.

5: Make sure that everyone sees you dancing with these 3 girls

6: Pick out some random girl and walk right up to her and say: "I caught you looking at me, whats your name" (of course she was looking, all girls notice when one guy has 3 hot girls all to himself)

7: Give instructions to girl like "come dance with me" or something like that and dance for approx. 10 minutes. Then, make out with girl on dance floor. Next, make remark about how it is hot and we should go outside. Once outside, ask girl to go home with you.

8: Have sex with girl

9: Drop girl off at her apartment in morning.

Notice I didn't say anything about drinking, buying a girl a drink, using canned lines, being nice or in any way caring about what anyone says. Lately, I have stopped dismissing side comments when other guys would talk sh1t as I would walk by. Now, I just stop, turn and look right at the guy and say "do you have a fvcking problem?" I haven't had anyone take me up on the offer in a long time.

 

[MrLuvr]

I have another tip for you, try picking them up AFTER the clubs close. Instead of going to a place with one club, head downtown. As the weather gets warmer the girls aren't in that much of a hurry to rush off to their cars. They will hang around and get a hot dog or a pizza slice or just take their time to get back. Go over to Queen St or walk down Richmond St. There are tonnes of girls walking around at 2:30 AM on a weekend summer night.

You get the benefits of using your day game, plus some of the chicks are drunk which works to your advantage as well. Best of day game and club game in one.

 

[Micheal Moon]

I have another tip for you, try picking them up AFTER the clubs close. Instead of going to a place with one club, head downtown. As the weather gets warmer the girls aren't in that much of a hurry to rush off to their cars. They will hang around and get a hot dog or a pizza slice or just take their time to get back. Go over to Queen St or walk down Richmond St. There are tonnes of girls walking around at 2:30 AM on a weekend summer night.

You get the benefits of using your day game, plus some of the chicks are drunk which works to your advantage as well. Best of day game and club game in one.

I agree, this is when I've had the most success in clubs, the winding down period, and girls are way more receptive. Tell you what, after some of these girls have been hit on by tons of guys and approached by a lot of a-holes, you play your cards right your'e in. I've gotten the most numbers this way.

 

[edger]

I play guitar and listen to heavy metal like Tool, Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and other hard rock bands.

Being that your handle name is Soylent Green, I'll assume you're into 'Soilent Green'. Good band. You should check out a band called the '69 Eyes'. More like Goth/Glam Metal. Good band. Here's a YouTube clip of 'em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEvfWUgOFE

 

[SoylentGreen]

Being that your handle name is Soylent Green, I'll assume you're into 'Soilent Green'. Good band. You should check out a band called the '69 Eyes'. More like Goth/Glam Metal. Good band. Here's a YouTube clip of 'em: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEvfWUgOFE

You know what? I have never heard of either band but I'm listening to 69 Eyes right now and it sounds pretty good...I'll definitely check out Soilent Green later...

Edger, it looks like you and I basically started the same thred, just on different weeks, lol. Your "how to get past the b!tch shield.." and this one are along the same lines. I'll have to use that search feature a little more thoroughly next time. That being said...

...All winter, and most of the end of fall, I was preparing myself for clubs by working out, practising body language and speech, dressing better, eating healthier, thinking of better things to talk about etc...and I am glad I did all of that, but wow, I thought it would amount to alot more as far as picking up in nightclubs...I couldn't have been more wrong, lol. I did all of the above and more, only to STILL get blown out of the water, by tall dudes in leather jackets and nice gold chains. The b!tch shield you speak of is BIG.

I am glad I have improved myself and I'm not looking at my lack of success in nightclubs as failure. I definitely get MORE looks, and MORE attraction than I used to, I'm a lot better as a conversationalist as well. I am making steps in the right direction. But yeah, I'm definitely going to stick to my sleezy rock clubs, walmart, the library, or the beach etc.

It doesn't matter TOO much about the women, as long as I am constantly improving and moving forward, I'm happy. There are already women that never would've given me the time of day before that NOW get rejected by ME. Each time I improve myself I increase my odds of women in the future. I even got out of the "friend zone" with a chick thanks to the wisdom on these boards...

The things we do today are not FOR today, they are for later.

 

[#41]

I agree, this is when I've had the most success in clubs, the winding down period, and girls are way more receptive. Tell you what, after some of these girls have been hit on by tons of guys and approached by a lot of a-holes, you play your cards right your'e in. I've gotten the most numbers this way.

Heh.

We call it "Magic Hour" -- ~1AM-2AM. Everyone is already pretty buzzed to outright smashed and much more receptive to advances they'd have blown off when sober. Any girl that was going out lonely and looking for action or a new man in her life is now usually feeling that twinge of regret ("Another night out where I didn't meet anyone" / "What's wrong with me? All my girlfriends have guys." / etc.).

If you want to really make hay here, always have your pad (or a friend's pad) set up and ready for after-hours when you leave to go out: stock the fridge with good beer and proper drink-mixing aids (Coke / Juice / etc.), have a supply of liquor on hand, and some good music ready to go on the stereo (bonus points if you can actually play a stereo and not just plug an iPod in).

When people start to wander towards the pizza window, suggest after-hours instead.

 

[Colossus]

For some reason there is this persistent popular belief that clubs are the place to go if you want to pick up women.

But as the OP outlined, these venues are rarely fun and always frustrating. I forced myself into clubs for a number of years, with negligible success. I think the best I ever got from a club was a few numbers. They are loud, hostile, expensive, and crowded. Lesson learned--it was not, and never will be my thing. For the record, I am kind of a big guy. I get attention but I still hate them.

Personally, I think going out anywhere--clubs or pubs---with the intentions of picking up a girl is a self-defeating mindset. You are eager, looking, and often dissapointed when you come home dry and $40 poorer. I have found I am much more successful when I just go out to relax and drink beer. The problem with a lot of guys is they go out and they are all anxious; head moving around, shifty eyes, nervously sipping red bull vodkas. They dont know how to go out and just relax. If you are out just enjoying yourself with a friend or two you are much more approachable, and you will find you can chat up interested girls with ease.

Venue is key. Like JeffSt said, find a place you like and are comfortable at. Girls are everywhere.


Also, Duffdog's post is hilarious, mostly because it's true. But unless youre a big mean as$hole, find your own niche.

 

[SoylentGreen]

For some reason there is this persistent popular belief that clubs are the place to go if you want to pick up women.

But as the OP outlined, these venues are rarely fun and always frustrating. I forced myself into clubs for a number of years, with negligible success. I think the best I ever got from a club was a few numbers. They are loud, hostile, expensive, and crowded. Lesson learned--it was not, and never will be my thing. For the record, I am kind of a big guy. I get attention but I still hate them.

Personally, I think going out anywhere--clubs or pubs---with the intentions of picking up a girl is a self-defeating mindset. You are eager, looking, and often dissapointed when you come home dry and $40 poorer. I have found I am much more successful when I just go out to relax and drink beer. The problem with a lot of guys is they go out and they are all anxious; head moving around, shifty eyes, nervously sipping red bull vodkas. They dont know how to go out and just relax. If you are out just enjoying yourself with a friend or two you are much more approachable, and you will find you can chat up interested girls with ease.

Venue is key. Like JeffSt said, find a place you like and are comfortable at. Girls are everywhere.


Also, Duffdog's post is hilarious, mostly because it's true. But unless youre a big mean as$hole, find your own niche.

So this might lead to a new thread...

What are the best alternate venues?

I have a few I like, considering where I live and my own personal circumstances:
-the beach
-the library
-Walmart or other shopping centres
-the street
-Girls at work in public jobs

...and just last Monday I picked up a girl at the Opeth concert in Toronto...

I also like the idea about hanging around outside the bar AFTER it closes...this is a great idea. You can go to your regular "dive bar", lol, or other venue and just make your way over to the danceclub area AFTER you have had your fun somewhere else...

 

[Luscious]

Clubs are overrated.

You're not going to meet any girl of any substance at a club - it's like trying to play pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey with a water gun from 70 feet out. Sure, you might get the tail on the donkey once, but you're going to get a whole lot of collateral damage on the grass and everywhere else.

What I'm trying to say is that you're going to have to sort through a whole lot of terrible women to find someone even remotely compatible with you.

Daygame is where it's at. Cultivate daily relationships - say 'hi' to every girl you see on a daily basis. Work your way in every day. Ask her what's up. Strike up a conversation.

I've had success with night game but it's trash.

 

[Colossus]

So this might lead to a new thread...

What are the best alternate venues?

I have a few I like, considering where I live and my own personal circumstances:
-the beach
-the library
-Walmart or other shopping centres
-the street
-Girls at work in public jobs

...and just last Monday I picked up a girl at the Opeth concert in Toronto...

I also like the idea about hanging around outside the bar AFTER it closes...this is a great idea. You can go to your regular "dive bar", lol, or other venue and just make your way over to the danceclub area AFTER you have had your fun somewhere else...

What do you like to do? This is the best starting point. Beaches are good, especially if youre in shape. Libraries, not so much. People go there to study, not get picked up. Same with grocery stores and the like...go places where fun and/or relaxation is the premise.

Also, daygame is a cumulative game, not a shoot-out. It starts with some smiles, a hi, a litttle chit-chat, you know. Before you know it you have several girls you chat up whenever you see them, and it's just part of the flow to grab her number and go out.

These pick-up artists, they go through a lot of girls before they get a hit. Rather than understanding how women work socially, they use some clever manipulation gimmicks to get a lay, but have no follow-up.

 

[SoylentGreen]

What do you like to do? This is the best starting point. Beaches are good, especially if youre in shape. Libraries, not so much. People go there to study, not get picked up. Same with grocery stores and the like...go places where fun and/or relaxation is the premise.

Also, daygame is a cumulative game, not a shoot-out. It starts with some smiles, a hi, a litttle chit-chat, you know. Before you know it you have several girls you chat up whenever you see them, and it's just part of the flow to grab her number and go out.

These pick-up artists, they go through a lot of girls before they get a hit. Rather than understanding how women work socially, they use some clever manipulation gimmicks to get a lay, but have no follow-up.

I like what you're saying Colossus...build a rapport OVER TIME with the girl. Am I interpreting this correctly? Let me get this straight:
You're saying that if I see a girl, say at a coffee shop, to say hi to her. Then next week, say hi again, and then chat her up a couple times a week later and then go for the number after a few visits... Is this correct?

This would work in a context where its an employee (bartender, for example) Its possibly workable but a little bit passive, in my opinion. What if she works there for the summer but you don't know this. Then you go back in September and she's gone forever. Its a great idea though and I see what you are driving at. But I prefer to go direct when I see the girl. I'm the guy who is willing to go through a lot of girls to get a hit. I'm 33 and I'm tired of letting them all walk by me as I have done all my life.

Your method presupposes that:
a) she'll be there long enough for you to build attraction over a longer period of time
b) that by the time you ask for her number she won't have a boyfriend
c) that one has the time to continuously go somewhere in order to MAYBE get the girl

I don't know Colossus. Its a good method but I wouldn't EXCLUSIVELY use this - I would couple it with a few other techniques.

I like daygame. I am going to start mastering it this month. I believe that the library AND the supermarket are possible spots to talk to a girl and build a bit of rapport. I have had girls talk to me in both scenarios while I was still totally clueless about social dynamics. Knowing what I know now, if I started chatting to a woman in either of those places and she was interested in me, I am sure I could get the number. I've done it at Walmart which isn't much different. With the beach method, I would use my guitar and sit there by myself and simply play it. This has worked in the past (to draw in girls) and again I was too much of an afc at the time to realize the power of it.

Assuming they are too busy too talk to you will get you nowhere.

A girl could go to the library to study, and still desire to be swept off her feet. You can't assume that I would be the ONLY one who isn't going there to study.
A girl I know who worked at a supermarket for three years, has told me about guys picking up customers there once in awhile and she was surprised that I hadn't tried that because she has seen the effectiveness of it. In fact, regarding the supermarket I have asked a few female co-workers if it would bother them if a guy came up to them and chatted them up while they were shopping. I asked how they would feel about that. The answer: as long as he isn't a creep they said they would be flattered.

So yeah, I like your cumulative daygame idea, but I also think when the circumstances present themself and there is a Scarlett Johanssen look-alike checking out eggs in aisle 3 that one should at least TRY to talk to her. He who hesitates, masturbates.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Clubs are overrated.

You're not going to meet any girl of any substance at a club - it's like trying to play pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey with a water gun from 70 feet out. Sure, you might get the tail on the donkey once, but you're going to get a whole lot of collateral damage on the grass and everywhere else.

What I'm trying to say is that you're going to have to sort through a whole lot of terrible women to find someone even remotely compatible with you.

Daygame is where it's at. Cultivate daily relationships - say 'hi' to every girl you see on a daily basis. Work your way in every day. Ask her what's up. Strike up a conversation.

I've had success with night game but it's trash.

I like this post, that water gun analogy is such a good point. I agree with you about daygame as well.

Here is what I'll be doing:
1.) see the girl
2.) I'll smile
- if she looks away or doesn't smile, I'll move on and start number one again
- if she smiles back:
3.) I'll say hi
- if she doesn't smile back, I'll move on and go back to number one again with a different girl
- if she says hi back, I'll gauge whether or not she'll be up for talking and then proceed:
4.) I'll start a conversation about something. Last time I used an "opinion opener" and they seem like great conversation starters:
"Quick question...blah, blah, blah?"
OR
4a.) I'll say something along the lines of: "I was going to hate myself if I didn't at least try to find out what you're all about..."
OR
4b) "Aren't you so-and-so?"..."OH, you're not?...blah, blah, blah.

There's more to it but the above seems to me like plausible beginnings to a conversation with a woman. Saying hi has always been my favourite opener.