Circumcision Is Child Abuse And Should Be Illegal

[Throttle]

So you're cool with, say, daddy diddling his little boy?

straw man. next please.

After all, you're fine with him permanently injuring him physically, why not injure him psychologically?

i'm pretty sure ADHD drugs do more psychological harm than a missing flap of skin, and feeding kids a steady diet of cheap sugars does more physical harm. We let parents do both of those -- hell, as a society, we practically demand it.

I think circumcision, like any other permanent, unnecessary surgery, should wait until the patient is of legal consenting age.

what about surgery to correct a cleft palate or harelip? particularly in cases that are strictly cosmetic?

There are limits to what parents have the right to do their child, yes? Immunisation and making you eat your greens, cool.

naturally, but you and i disagree as to where those limits are. should we force parents to immunize and make their kids eat greens? how should we enforce it?

if the parents' religious tradition dictates infant male circumcision, what right does a free society have to tell them not to?

most of your citations compare before and after, not infant circumcized versus not. the last citation is the most interesting, suggesting that circumcized men are missing out on something meaningful.

Funny how none of the guys who are circumcised and disagree with the issue haven't posted a single argument against any of the point the thread starter made. Well that just shows how one side is more dumber and incapable making a rebuttle.

sometimes it's best to just let guys hang themselves with their own stupidity.

 

[Nighthawk]

hahaha i love how the guy with the ugly penis starts this thread.

I know many women that only date circumsized men.

night

I started this thread and I have a beautiful penis, big, thick and according to several girls, the most beautiful penis they have ever seen. My beautiful gf was worshipping it just a few minutes ago, and she definitely prefers it as it is.

My motives for starting this thread are not jealousy, I could always go and get the snip if I wanted. How do you respond to the evidence that circumcised men are missing out on the full sexual experience? Well if being aesthetically pleasing to women like Wyldfire is more important to you, go ahead. But should you be able to make that decision on behalf of a baby?

 

[spesmilitis]

people who are cut here will defend the cut. Pple who are unncut will defend the uncut.

 

[Nighthawk]

People who are uncut can get cut. They don't, because they know what they'd be losing. People who are cut will likely have familial loyalties and a strong desire not to feel like a victim that prevent them from accepting their loving parents needlessly robbed them of future sexual pleasure.

Wyldfire, here are some ladies explaining why sex is better with an as God intended c*ck.

Personal Accounts of The Female Experience:

“I've had a pretty modest number of lovers, but my uncirc husband is definitely, far and away, more sensitive than circ men I've known. This is such a plus - it is much more exciting for us both (the prematurity mentioned in some posts has never been a problem).”

AOL Member, 4/13/99: I have experienced both cut and uncut. Uncut is by far better, the feelings are more exquisite. It is gentler and the man seems to enjoy himself more. Size made a difference with some as far as reaching orgasms sooner and easier, but that might just be a fluke of my own anatomy, but orgasms with the uncut smaller one were equally if not more enjoyable. This was a long term relationship.
Sharon, Age 44, April 11, 1999 - Most of my boyfriends have been circumcized. I had more problems with size (some too large & impossible to use) than with cut or uncut. However, I had a few that were uncut. I was totally fascinated at looking at them with all the extra skin, and I discovered that since the penis goes in and out of its own skin, the vagina does not get sore from frequent sex. It is a much smoother process. I have had times when I was having frequent (what I call 'nuclear sex' at the beginning of a relationship) and got so sore and raw, from the common circumcized penis, of men in my age group, I had to sit in a hot bathtub, and then smear cortisone cream on my vulva. With a 'ragtop' that does not happen.

My present guy is circumcized but I accept that. I wish all guys were uncut, and I would never have a son of mine cut. I have never seen anything listed in the arguments against circumcision that it makes sex much easier and less painful for the woman. . . . I had more steady relationships with cut men simply because in the baby boomer age group there seem to be a lot more white men who are cut. I never performed oral sex on an uncut guy and they never seemed to want it. I assume they were getting enough stimulation from regular vaginal sex.

Being American born and 35, the chances that I or my peers to have experienced sexual relations with both intact and circumcised men is a rarity. Of the few friends that I know that have been blessed to experience both intact and cut first hand, we all agree.....the anatomically correct penis is a much better ride. I don't want to go into details *as I will start blushing* but at one point in my life I lived with two men....one was cut and one was intact. I have had the opportunity to compare the two side by side at the same time. If American woman only knew.....
A Talklist Member, 3/8/99

 

[Nighthawk]

continued

“I had my son circumcised at birth. His father was circumcised and all of my previous boyfriends were circumcised! My father and brothers were circumcised along with my cousins! It was just the way I was brought up to know.
I recently divorced and started to date again. I fell back in love with a wonderful all American born hunk! Blonde, blue eyed and full of muscles! We got serious in our relationship and that's when I saw my first uncircumcised penis. I was mesmerized and didn't know what to do next. He sensed my hesitation and asked if I had ever seen one before. I told him no and he proceeded to educate me first hand.

I learned and experienced the true nature of god's gift. The endless pleasures it gives to the both of us during foreplay and sexually. I found I could last longer without getting sore and to experiment with different oral techniques that I never could have performed on my previous lovers.

I would like other women to post their same experiences in detail. I feel that by opening up and letting the public know about the sexual benefits of having an intact partner would open the eyes of many skeptical women like myself and perhaps spark their curiosity to want to go out and experience it for themselves. In turn, this will help eliminate circumcision in the future.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have left my son intact so he and his future sex partner can enjoy the same experiences I have gratefully experienced.”

 

[Nighthawk]

and more

“Well, my college boyfriend was from Spain, so he wasn't circed. And I absolutely loved his penis. It was so sexy and exotic to me. In fact, I'm extremely disappointed that my husband is not intact.” In another post, the same person said: “Circumcision can harm sexual relations. If you've ever had sex with both a circed and an uncirced man, you'd know. Some women say that it doesn't make a difference, but I know that it definitely did for me. (Think "ribbed for her pleasure".) So I *do know better... and yes, I have heard a man complain about something he lost when he was 24-48 hours old.”
“Circumcised penises look ugly and unnatural to me! Also, with an uncircumcised penis, when you rub the penis with your hand, the foreskin makes it "glide" up and down easier. Sex is better, too, for the same reason - the foreskin helps it slide in and out better. My husband was the first man with an uncircumcised penis that I had had, so I had nothing to compare to with my previous partners. If my husband ever dies and I start dating again, I will look for an uncircumcised man. The sex is better, and I can't stand the sight of a circumcised penis. Not only that, my husband's penis seems far more sensitive than my other partners' were, so he seems to get more enjoyment out of sex, which helps me enjoy it more. The circumcised penis is ugly, ugly, ugly!!!! The penis intact is beautiful, natural, wonderful! I can't imagine ever sleeping with a circumcised man again.”

In later years, dry and painful intercourse is usually explained by the idea that women lubricate less. But sex with uncircumcised men is described as much more comfortable.

 

[penkitten]

i had both my sons circumsized because i was afraid that later in life they might get some nasty infection and have to have it done then. (i knew someone who did ) i thought that as an infant they would heal faster and easier and forget about it sooner than if my children were older or even grown men, and then it can be very severe.

some people choose to do it because of religious reasons.

my mother had my 2 older brothers done, and she actually walked in on them doing the 2nd brother. he was strapped to a board with no pain medication and he was screaming and she said it was horrible. she did not allow them to circumsize my baby brother because of this. he was taught how to move the foreskin back and clean himself and he has never had a problem with any health issues or lack of women issues.


so no matter what you choose to do with your kids, you never know what will happen in the future.

 

[itishe]

I'm pissed I was circumsized. Women should have some of their **** removed for hygenic purposes down the road, because some ****s are long and ugly as well.

 

[DarthJuan]

And most women shave for that reason. Likewise, men should get rid of the foreskin. There ARE medical reasons to get it done. You won't get Phismosis, it decreases risk of getting penile cancer, reduces your chances of getting and spreading HPV which causes cervical cancer...and it's a hell of a lot better to get it done when you are an infant and don't remember than to get it when you are older like so many men and older boys end up having to do. Aside from that, pre-teen boys have the absolute worst hygiene on the planet. Your son will appreciate you for getting him circumcised because women do NOT like foreskin.

Vaginas are a vicious battlefield of bacteria, viruses and waste.
Ever heard the saying that a vagina is a hatchet wound that never heals?
Women are always getting vaginal infections.

By your logic, vaginas should be removed because they are cesspools, a sceptic tank of bacteria.

Have you ever gotten a vaginal infection?
How 'bout your daughters?

Men do NOT like dirty, stinky cvnts!
Women should learn to clean their pvssys and give it a damn mint every once in awhile.
Then they can lecture men on grooming and hygiene.

I would hazard a guess that most male infections are due to them putting their penises in dirty cvnts.

The majority of American women will grow up to be useless idiots. We should remove their brains as infants.

 

[spider_007]

what do stripers have to say????

http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77373

 

[G0gL2000]

This is the dumbest thread Ive ever read. Nighthawk is 100% wrong.

 

[Wyldfire]

Wyldfire, you're a stuck up idiot. If it looks so terrible, then why was it several months into ****ing and giving me head before my girlfriend even noticed I wasn't cut?

Here's an idea, we should stitch up half of all girls vagina's. Some guys don't like big lips, so it looks much better, and sexual pleasure will go way up with such a tight hole.

Make sense? Didn't think so.

Until you're willing to stitch up half your hole to make it feel better, and would do that to your daughter, shut up.

I'm shallow about this issue...INCREDIBLY shallow about it...and honest. You guys claim to wish women would be honest about things...and that's exactly what I'm doing...and you are not handling it well.

I don't care if you don't want to have sex with certain women because something about them repulses you. Likewise, you should not care if I refuse to have sex with uncircumcised men because foreskin repulses me.

My mother had cervical cancer. There is medical documentation that clearly states that uncircumcised men are more likely to get and spread HPV. HPV is linked to causing cervical cancer. So, along with my personal preferences, I also have health reasons NOT to have sex with uncircumcised men. That being said...the main reason I feel the way I do is because I find foreskin to be disgusting...period. I really don't care whether my opinion offends you or not...I'm NOT going to lie to appease your ego or avoid offending you.

 

[Wyldfire]

" hahaha i love how the guy with the ugly penis starts this thread.

I know many women that only date circumsized men."

night

...Wyldfire your a dyke your 40 years old and hang around a guy's forum. You have no reason to be here, but you still do... YOU CLAIM to HELP guys but I only see your spreading Bullsh*t and your 40... your TOO OLD to give advice to 16-25 year olds. If you actually read you'll find out that circumcision has no benefits, it makes the d*ck less sensative. Skillz who the hell cares how your d*ck looks? Are you a porn star? Are you that insecure that some other dude will look at you and say your a f*g for being uncircumcised. How is a uncircumcised penis ugly? That's like saying size C fake plastic looks better than a natural C tits. Maybe you prefer mutilated or artificial looking things but I prefer natural looking.

Night your the other idiot, what kind of shallow minded women you dating? Prob Wyldfire... If a chick won't date a guy cuz he's not circumcised or not she's a WASTE OF TIME. I'm uncircumsized but I got friends who're circumcized do they give me sh*t for being "different" no cuz it's personal business, it's like what religion you should follow. WHO THE HELL CARES!? Most guys in the UK are uncircumcized, so that means UK guys like the Beatles and Rolling Stones can't get laid with American Chicks right... gosh ppl are SO F*cking retarded these days.

lol...you must have foreskin...I can always tell because those are the guys that get all bent out of shape when I'm honest on this issue.

How is what I am saying any different than you being repulsed by a 500lb woman? Simple...it's not. People can't control what they find repulsive...yet you expect me to pretend something that grosses me out doesn't bother. Sorry...not happening. Until you start dating women you find utterly disgusting and advising every other guy on here to do the same then you really have no justification in getting angry with me for being honest. Calling me names and making personal attacks because of my stand on this issue is juvenile and immature.

 

[Wyldfire]

Nighthawk...I don't care what other women have to say about foreskin. I am repulsed by how it looks. It disgusts me to the very core and the visual literally makes me gag and feel like I'm going to throw up. That is not going to change. I am VERY shallow visually. If I am grossed out by the way a guy looks (or the way his penis looks) I am NOT even going to date him, let alone touch him. No amount of arguments or articles posted is going to change the fact that I find foreskin so repulsive that the mere image causes me to throw up in my mouth.

 

[Wyldfire]

Vaginas are a vicious battlefield of bacteria, viruses and waste.
Ever heard the saying that a vagina is a hatchet wound that never heals?
Women are always getting vaginal infections.

By your logic, vaginas should be removed because they are cesspools, a sceptic tank of bacteria.

Have you ever gotten a vaginal infection?
How 'bout your daughters?

Men do NOT like dirty, stinky cvnts!
Women should learn to clean their pvssys and give it a damn mint every once in awhile.
Then they can lecture men on grooming and hygiene.

I would hazard a guess that most male infections are due to them putting their penises in dirty cvnts.

The majority of American women will grow up to be useless idiots. We should remove their brains as infants.

lol...no, I've never had any female infections.

If you're disgusted by vaginas I support you 100% to never go near one. Really...I'm on your side...don't ever touch one of those nasty cookas...you poor, poor boy.

Does that make you feel better?

Oh...I still am repulsed by foreskin and nothing you say is going to change that. Rather than get angry over my honesty you really should appreciate the fact that I won't lie to you guys and am being honest.

 

[Nighthawk]

Nighthawk...I don't care what other women have to say about foreskin. I am repulsed by how it looks.

Cool, that's your preference. Where you were wrong was stating that it was a preference shared by all women, when the opposite appears to be the case.

 

[simon]

Damn I wish I was that good at arguing about foreskin.

 

[Nighthawk]

Some other snippets (heh) from the Wikipedia entry that Deus Ex Pianoforte forgot to quote.

Boyle et al. (2002) argued that circumcision and frenectomy remove tissues with "heightened erogenous sensitivity," stating "the genitally intact male has thousands of fine touch receptors and other highly erogenous nerve endings--many of which are lost to circumcision."[72] The authors conclude: "Evidence has also started to accumulate that male circumcision may result in lifelong physical, sexual, and sometimes psychological harm as well."

An interim analysis from the Rakai Health Sciences Program in Uganda suggested that newly circumcised HIV positive men may be more likely to spread HIV to their female partners if they have sexual intercourse before the wound is fully healed. “Because the total number of men who resumed sex before certified wound healing is so small, the finding of increased transmission after surgery may have occurred by chance alone. However, we need to err on the side of caution to protect women in the context of any future male circumcision programme,” said Dr Maria Wawer, the study's principal investigator. [100]
There is also a danger of HIV being spread from unhygienic circumcision procedures. Brewer et al. studied HIV infection rates in Kenya, Lethotho and Tanzania and found that "[circumcised] male and female virgins were substantially more likely to be HIV infected than uncircumcised virgins. Among adolescents, regardless of sexual experience, circumcision was just as strongly associated with prevalent HIV infection. However, uncircumcised adults were more likely to be HIV positive than circumcised adults." The authors concluded, "HIV transmission may occur through circumcision-related blood exposures in eastern and southern Africa."[101]

he American Academy of Pediatrics observes “Circumcision has been suggested as an effective method of maintaining penile hygiene since the time of the Egyptian dynasties, but there is little evidence to affirm the association between circumcision status and optimal penile hygiene.”[62][115] It states that the "relationship among hygiene, phimosis, and penile cancer is uncertain" and further remarks that "genital hygiene needs to be emphasized as a preventive health topic throughout a patient's lifetime."
The Royal Australasian College of Physicians emphasizes that a non-circumcised infant's penis requires no special care and should be left alone, stating that attempts to forcibly retract the foreskin, e.g. to clean it, are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring, infections and pathologic phimosis.

In 2005, the American Cancer Society said that while studies suggest that circumcision may reduce the risk of more invasive forms of penile cancer, it is important to concentrate on the main risk factors: poor hygiene, having unprotected sex with multiple partners, and cigarette smoking.[138] They further state that the current consensus of most experts is that circumcision should not be recommended as a prevention strategy for penile cancer.

United Kingdom
A national survey on sexual attitudes in 2000 found that 11.7% of 16-19 year olds, and 19.6% of 40-44 year olds said they had been circumcised. It also found that, apart from black Caribbeans, overseas born men were more likely to be circumcised.[165] Rickwood et al reported that the proportion of English boys circumcised for medical reasons had fallen from 35% in the early 1930s to 6.5% by the mid-1980s. An estimated 3.8% of male children in the UK in 2000 were being circumcised by the age of 15 [24]. The researchers stated that too many boys, especially under the age of 5, were still being circumcised because of a misdiagnosis of phimosis. They called for a target to reduce the percentage to 2%.

There are various explanations why the infant circumcision rate in the United States are different from comparable countries. Some obstetricians have been accused of using circumcision as a quick and easy way of making money.

 

[Rudra]

This is absolutely fascinating....

Some 2500 years ago the guys in the desert got told to snip of the skin on the tip of their weenie for there were no showers in the desert 2500 years back and even back then they knew - dont wash your c0ck, and it might develop cancer. This got written down in the Book of Books where these sand people got told what to do and what not. No, they of course didnt write down "cut your **** because you cant wash it once a day", but "Thou shalt be circumcised to belong to the chosen people".

Fast forward in time. Nobody remembers that are lots of practical rules for practical reasons in The Book of Books. Nobody wants to remember because lo and behold! it is what the Almighty told us. And the Almighty told us to cut off the skin on tip of our weenies... so for 100 years circumcision is routinely done on newborn males in the US. No discussion about it, no hard facts about the consequences, nobody doubts it or questions it. Routinely it is NOT done in Europe. No questioning, no hard facts.

Now facts come up that show that a) nature didnt just for fun put that skin hood on top of the weenie, no, it has several functions. b) there are cut people above 40 that complain about less sensitivity in their c0ck c) HIV infection may be lower without that skin ... and else.

Scientifical facts Pro and Contra, to make it short.

Now the fun continues. Now the cut guys pick the pro circumcision facts not to make them feel losers and the uncut guys to the opposite. Everybody is just basically stroking their own balls in this discussion. The whole thing has been a circus since the beginning 2500 years ago...

but very interesting about the workings of the human psyche.

 

[Raikojo17]

^^^^god didnt tell us to cut our foreskin. that was a Jewish religious tradition, also found in many other cultures associated with becoming a man.

they had nothing to do with hygiene. it was a religious practice. just like female curcumcision is a practice in some parts of the middle east.
the rate of circumcised men is actually dropping, because wat used to be done for religion is now jus done for so called "hygiene" or making quick money and watever.