Can I save my LTR?

[LoneWolf]

she's probably gonna go back to him now. especially now she's damaged. you watch.

 

[betheman]

So the question for me is, what changed that suddenly flipped the switch and made her want to explore this again? I'll probably never know. But that's the real question.

well you could do what a lot of guys do and beat themselves up, it was me I did this wrong...I didnt do that...should have made more of an effort etc...which may be valid in some cases, however, she allowed an ex back into her life and your relatonship, if she didnt want hom around, she is capable of making that perfectly clear, she didnt, she is still attracyed to him, still likes the idea of fcucking him, maybe even has, and please dont say you know 100% certain she hasnt because you cant say for certain.
she has a character flaw and if you continue this relationship you will always be pushing the boulder back up the hill, the ride down maybe fun but its not a good basis for an LTR

 

[49au]

she's probably gonna go back to him now. especially now she's damaged. you watch.

I think you're probably right. If she doesn't, it will speak volumes.

she has a character flaw and if you continue this relationship you will always be pushing the boulder back up the hill, the ride down maybe fun but its not a good basis for an LTR

Why do you think I left despite what I did see, and her begging me not to? This is why I told her no when she said when she would do anything for another chance. And when she said, "I'll wait for you" and "I'll come back to you" I told her "I won't be here."

For her to have told him she feels like she's following in her dad's footsteps, means that she is seriously fvcked over this and having major issues. I can't be involved.

 

[EastWind]

I had to stop reading at page 3 because I'm short on time (break at work).. I see from the last page that you left her.

You are probably quite a bit older than I am (I'm 23), but I still want to offer my advice based on personal experience, that is, I will briefly retell my story.

A little over six months ago, my mom died. My girlfriend took the opportunity to break up with me, saying that things had changed, that she felt she could take better care of me as a friend and that she wants a relationship to be great every single day, that she is constantly judging her partner and that she feels she can't rank me at that moment in time.

This went on for two weeks, in which, in retrospect, I have no ****ing clue whatsoever how I managed to go through life given the massive amount of crap that was flying around. My two so-called best friends decided to be best friends with her and wouldn't stop spending time with her. At the end we broke up. I cut contact, but would think about her all the time. After a week she bumped into me and complaining how I thrown her out of my life, that she wanted to be friends, complaning how mean and childish I was being. She would regularly try to convince me, saying she doesn't want me out of her life, etc. During the Christmas break she actually called at my dad's house to say she wasn't sure about anything anymore, why couldn't we try to be friends and take it from there. Etc. Then she hooked up with my then-already-ex-best-friend-but-still-friend. I cut contact to most of my old "friends", because when you have friends like that you need no enemies.

Point is:

When she starts throwing crap like that at you: Get. Out. While. You. Can. And don't look back.

Whatever you might have done to conjure this situation up is important only insofar as you can try to learn from your mistakes for the next time.

But trying to fix a massively broken situation is a waste of your time. The sooner she is COMPLETELY 100% out of your life, the sooner your regeneration and healing can begin. Ever since I've gotten rid of all the people who did nothing but hurt me, I've been better. It's a slow process, but it will happen.

Now, three months after it's all over, I feel like I've dodged a massive freakin' bullet.

You already made the apparently correct decision of leaving her. Don't make my mistake of getting sucked back into whatever little play she will try to set up. You might still have the mindset of "maybe she will come back now that she's seen I don't need her." But if it happens once, it might very well happen again.

This was a bit longer than I intended, but I wanted to offer my advice based on what happened to me. Good luck. I hope you have things to do to keep your head busy, although it's 100% normal to still think a lot about her.

 

[bugsquish]

Ah geez, I've just read all the way through this thread. This is just tragic. I've been in several LTRs between 2-4 years since I was 18. I'm now happier spinning plates but I have a good grasp of the relationship dynamics in an LTR as contrasted with pickup and plate spinning.

As far as I can see this girl is totally in love with you, dealing with huge emotional pressure, and thoughts that she felt guilty about and has tried to be totally honest about, but had it thrown back in her face. Women are emotional creatures, and people can't help their thoughts. It sounds like she has has a lot of legitimate things to be stressed out about. I know I will probably be called an AFC for showing a little bit of empathy, but in a LTR you need to be able to see things from the other person's point of view and let go of your pride and paranoia.

Your perception that "she was toning down the open affection and her sex drive was slowing down" has had a further negative effect on the relationship dynamic. Instead of being a fun and relaxing escape, you've added to the pressure by making a huge issue out of that. People have doubts in any LTR, but I'd say moreso if the other peson is adding to your stress levels.

The bottom line is I think you've had a lot of really bad advice in this thread that has fueled your paranoia, which was already making this a bigger issue than it should have been. There's a cult of mistrust on these forums, where every girl is a manipulative, schemer who's up to no good. Sometimes the'yre just sweet, stressed, confused girls. Sure you need to put them in their place from time to time, but don't let your mistrust, and your pride become so crippling that you throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[cordoncordon]

Ah geez, I've just read all the way through this thread. This is just tragic. I've been in several LTRs between 2-4 years since I was 18. I'm now happier spinning plates but I have a good grasp of the relationship dynamics in an LTR as contrasted with pickup and plate spinning.

As far as I can see this girl is totally in love with you, dealing with huge emotional pressure, and thoughts that she felt guilty about and has tried to be totally honest about, but had it thrown back in her face. Women are emotional creatures, and people can't help their thoughts. It sounds like she has has a lot of legitimate things to be stressed out about. I know I will probably be called an AFC for showing a little bit of empathy, but in a LTR you need to be able to see things from the other person's point of view and let go of your pride and paranoia.

Your perception that "she was toning down the open affection and her sex drive was slowing down" has had a further negative effect on the relationship dynamic. Instead of being a fun and relaxing escape, you've added to the pressure by making a huge issue out of that. People have doubts in any LTR, but I'd say moreso if the other peson is adding to your stress levels.

The bottom line is I think you've had a lot of really bad advice in this thread that has fueled your paranoia, which was already making this a bigger issue than it should have been. There's a cult of mistrust on these forums, where every girl is a manipulative, schemer who's up to no good. Sometimes the'yre just sweet, stressed, confused girls. Sure you need to put them in their place from time to time, but don't let your mistrust, and your pride become so crippling that you throw out the baby with the bathwater.

You have to be kidding me. This girl has had at the very least (may have had sex who knows), an ongoing, text, email, phone call, and seeing each other at work relationship with her ex, BEHIND THE OP'S back for who knows how long, has said she still has feelings for the ex, and tried to break up with the OP once already because of the ex, and you think she deserves sympathy!?? Are you the kinda guy (or are you a woman) that when an ex fvcks another guy while dating you, says to her "that's ok, I know you had needs and were stressed out, I understand". Wow.

 

[AlexDP]

This is why I still left her (mentally anyway, technically we were already broken up). I am interested in seeing what she does over the next couple of months now that I have told her no but he is still telling her yes.

She told me that he told her months ago, not long after we started dating, that he wanted her back. At the time she blew him off. I totally believe that. So the question for me is, what changed that suddenly flipped the switch and made her want to explore this again? I'll probably never know. But that's the real question.

Why not? I know. This girl is clearly emotionally unstable.

 

[bugsquish]

You have to be kidding me. This girl has had at the very least (may have had sex who knows), an ongoing, text, email, phone call, and seeing each other at work relationship with her ex, BEHIND THE OP'S back for who knows how long, has said she still has feelings for the ex, and tried to break up with the OP once already because of the ex, and you think she deserves sympathy!?? Are you the kinda guy (or are you a woman) that when an ex fvcks another guy while dating you, says to her "that's ok, I know you had needs and were stressed out, I understand". Wow.

Her and her ex work together ffs She never cheated on the OP as far as I can see. And she was honest about the situation, and look where that got her. I'm still friends with some of my exes. And in some ways I may even miss them or reminisce but that wouldn't mean I have any intention of pursuing them. Emotions are complex things and you can't control them, especially true of chicks. It's different from disrespect or infidelity.

All I can see here is a lot of paranoia, bruised ego and a fear of being the dumpee. At the start, when he was giving her a wakeup call, I think that was enough. That and a little empathy would have gone a long way. Things have gone waaay too far and it's mostly fueled by the advice on here.

 

[cordoncordon]

Her and her ex work together ffs She never cheated on the OP as far as I can see. And she was honest about the situation, and look where that got her. I'm still friends with some of my exes. And in some ways I may even miss them or reminisce but that wouldn't mean I have any intention of pursuing them. Emotions are complex things and you can't control them, especially true of chicks. It's different from disrespect or infidelity.

All I can see here is a lot of paranoia, bruised ego and a fear of being the dumpee. At the start, when he was giving her a wakeup call, I think that was enough. That and a little empathy would have gone a long way. Things have gone waaay too far and it's mostly fueled by the advice on here.

So you don't consider your gf or bf talking to, emailing, texting, calling, discussing getting back with an ex, behind your back....cheating? Ok then.

And dont forget when the OP tried to see the exact conversation, she had not only deleted much of the convo already, but then went and deleted more of it in front of the OP. But yeah, she was just being honest and "exploring her feelings".

You have to be a woman.

 

[AlexDP]

Look, cordoncordon, does it really matter what exactly is going on? It's quite obvious that this girl likes OP very much. But it's also obvious there is still a lot going on between her and her ex. Apart from that, when he dumps her, she keeps contacting him. That's not something an emotionally stable person does. And when the ex, with whom she keeps having conversations, tells her he loves her, she suddenly tells him she's in love with OP? Come on. She was most likely leading him on anyway and liked the attention of two men. Now one of the two dumped her and she's pursuing him like crazy.

There's just too much ''stuff". She should be on her own for a while and he should just get away from her for the time being.

 

[cordoncordon]

Look, cordoncordon, does it really matter what exactly is going on?



There's just too much ''stuff". She should be on her own for a while and he should just get away from her for the time being.

That is exactly what I told him to do.

 

[49au]

Regarding cordon's post:

- she was not seeing him at work, the only time they would see each other is when there is a test at school, which for 3rd year med students is not that often

- She said this just started about a week ago. I believe that because there was a point almost overnight where there seemed to be a huge change in her, and I think this was the cause. I also don't think they had sex because if they had, she would probably have felt so guilty that she couldn't even look at or speak to me. Also the night she tried to break up with me, after we talked it out we went to lay down and she started kissing me like I had been away for a year or something and said "make love to me." The sound in her voice and the look on her face were intensely vulnerable and pure. The next day we spent the whole day together and she was very warm and affectionate.

- As outlined below, I don't think she tried to break up with me FOR her ex. There is a difference between leaving someone for another person, and leaving some because you feel doubts+pressure and the ex is part of the doubt.



bugsquish,

I have thought about this a lot (obviously), and for what little it's worth, I'm going to give you my theory of what happened here.

First I'll say that a lot of the posters here have an absolutely unrealistic view of sexuality and relationships. It has never occurred to them that women, just like men, are tempted.

There was this hot girl from Brazil that I was trying to bang. I banged her best friend, and for that reason she ignored my advances for a long time. But her friend went back to Brazil and when that happened, she came around. We went to this club, to the beach, and made out for a while. She was one of the plates I was spinning when I met my ex. I dropped her. Early on in my relationship with my ex, she texted me one night when I was sitting at home alone and asked what I was doing.

I knew she wanted to come over. And I was so tempted. We sent a few messages back and forth. Finally I told her to come over. Instantly I regretted it and realized that even though this girl was hot and I had wanted her for a while now, it wasn't worth it. So I immediately sent her another message and told her sorry, but I didn't want to do that to my girlfriend.

If I had told my ex about that, should she forgive me? Of course. I faced temptation... and I even gave in to it for a second. But before it came time to do something irreversible, I stopped.

On to her. I don't think she physically cheated on me, for reasons I won't elaborate on. Emotionally/mentally? Yes, she did.

What happened here is forgivable but only under some cirumstances.

If this was some random guy she met at a bar and she did this, it is too disturbing to allow forgiveness because there is no emotional aspect to that. It's just raw sexual cheating.

On the other hand, this was a guy she used to have a serious 2yr (I incorrectly thought it was 4) relationship with, who she previously felt was "the one", a guy who she had an abortion with (which is a HUGE emotional issue to her esp. now that her best friend who was in the same situation didn't go that route and just had her baby), and who has pursued her while we were together. So this could happen completely out of confusion or unresolved feelings, which are things that can be empathized with. Meeting a random guy at a bar and "exploring" with him has much more base motivations that cannot be empathized with.



I DO think she entertained thoughts of getting back with him, but I don't think that is how it started. I believe that this is what happened:

She suddenly realized how serious we were getting (we JUST got back from an out of state trip to my best friend's wedding, where she also met my family for the first time), and when that happened, it made her compare the relationship to the last (and only other) one where she had felt willingness to enter the same level of commitment.

I had two of her deal breaker traits, a) I don't believe in god and b) I smoke cigars and weed on occasion. She told me flat out before we even got together that she has never ever considered being with anyone who smokes anything. And that she wanted me so much she was looking the other way. It was a huge deal to her. I know personally, if a girl smokes cigarettes I would NOT be with her.

Same thing with religion. This is not the first time the religion thing has come up and I know it is a serious issue to her. She wants her children to be raised in church. From my perspective, if a girl was a practicing Christian, I absolutely WOULD NOT be with her. So I don't think it's ridiculous.

I do not have a large tight-knit family like hers either, and I think that bothers her as well. She is very family oriented.

So for those reasons, and likely also due to the MASSIVE external stressor of med school/career, she felt unsure and scared. And it just spiraled into her thinking that because she didn't have those issues with him, and because she wasn't scared back then, she makes a judgment on OUR relationship and says "maybe I still love him and he is actually right for me."

From there she begins to talk to him and explore WHAT it is about him/them that made her comfortable, and what she seems to be missing with me.

What people don't seem to understand is that this process indicates that she is at the point where she is about to make a decision of whether or not she could spend the rest of her life with me. And that this process involves some serious introspection. She knows she cannot definitively answer that question without exploring her fears and feelings about her ex. At this point, she is either willing to let go of him forever and be with me forever, or she is ready to leave. In her mind this relationship has come to the point where ambiguity is unacceptable. She has to see herself with me forever, or not at all.

Her ex has wanted and continues to want her back. So as she begins to talk to him and he keeps pressuring her, it awakens feelings and the confusion grows. The conversation twists from her asking "why do I feel like I haven't moved on from you?" to him saying "because we need to be together." Then she asks, "but why do we need together?" He starts painting a picture, making promises, being the guy that she is NOT stressed about right now, and she begins to question herself, me, everything. And there is not a relationship in this world that has not had moments of doubt and questioning.

If this is true, then her reasons for contacting him were not wrong. She was trying to completely put to rest anything standing in her way of being willing to give me lifelong commitment (though I had not asked or hinted at that).

Based on what I have read, seen, and heard, that is my theory. It could be wrong.

Was she right to try to resolve her fears and questions? Absolutely. Was she right to allow herself to misinterpret her confusion and allow it open a "should we get back together?" dialogue? Absolutely not.

I think it says a lot that she did expose the real issue after a few days, instead of just leaving me and sticking with her religion+pressure story. He wants her. I read the messages. If she truly wanted him too, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That is something that all the "every woman is a slut who is always trying to leave you for someone else" theorists are missing here.

Does this mean I can be with her again?

If my theory is correct, then yes, I could forgive her unless I found out that there actually was physical cheating. I would also need to observe what happens between the two of them now that I have left her and see if they do get together within the next month or two.

But the broader issues here are that she is emotionally unstable, and I have two of her deal breaker traits. For those reasons, it is probably best that I don't get back together with her, now or in the future.



Please do not comment on this post or my idea unless you have read it completely.

 

[bugsquish]

So you don't consider your gf or bf talking to, emailing, texting, calling, [...]....cheating? Ok then.

No, I don't. You have to be pretty insecure to start dictating to someone who they can and can't talk to, especially if they work together. Like I said I'm friends with some exes and I actually end up getting on with their new boyfriends. No big deal in itself.

discussing getting back with an ex, behind your back [...]
And dont forget when the OP tried to see the exact conversation, she had not only deleted much of the convo already, but then went and deleted more of it in front of the OP.

Okay this is another matter, but still there's a lot of speculation going on. It seems like she turned down any advances from this ex guy. I totally see your point: she's totally in the wrong. But I still don't think a breakup was unavoidable. She's learned her lesson. I'd give her a chance to prove her words. We have 2 people here who claim to love each other. Sometimes you can work through these things in a LTR and it makes your relationship stronger.

But yeah, she was just being honest and "exploring her feelings". You have to be a woman.

Haha, I'm aware as I write that's what it sounds like. I have never been dumped, just had extremely jealous and possessive ex girlfriends who are too busy worrying about what I'm doing. I never had a reason to be jealous or mistrusting. Just suffocated. And that kind of behavior pushed me away. I can just see the same process working in reverse.

 

[betheman]

good luck whichever way it goes 49.

 

[CostaDeSol]

Does this mean I can be with her again?

If my theory is correct, then yes, I could forgive her unless I found out that there actually was physical cheating. I would also need to observe what happens between the two of them now that I have left her.

The broader issues here are that she is emotionally unstable, and I have two of her deal breaker traits. For those reasons, it is probably best that I don't get back together with her, now or in the future.

Please do not comment on this post or my idea unless you have read it completely.

Either way, by saying "I think we should break up" she has proven to you that she is not afraid of hurting you.

my experience with gf's has taught me that if they hurt you once they will hurt you again. And again. And again. Maybe not this year, but sometime in the future.


Its up to you to decide. good luck

 

[bugsquish]

bugsquish,
I have thought about this a lot (obviously), and for what little it's worth, I'm going to give you my theory of what happened here.

This is probably the most rational analysis I've seen so far in this whole thread. Things are never as black as white as they look on a forum post. And I feel sorry for those who always assume the worst of every girl because they are missing something potentially beautiful. One thing that is obvious to me all along is that you both love each other. Of course she was totally in the wrong but I don't think she did anything that's unforgivable or unresolvable.

However...

Same thing with religion. This is not the first time the religion thing has come up and I know it is a serious issue to her. She wants her children to be raised in church. From my perspective, if a girl was a practicing Christian, I absolutely WOULD NOT be with her. So I don't think it's ridiculous.

That's a huge issue. In a divorce case this would be classed as "irreconcilable differences". The smoking thing can be comprimised, or got used to, but religion is a core value that is very difficult to change if not impossible. I'm guessing she has religious parents? Goes to church? Religious people are usually brainwashed by their parents, so I wouldn't be surprised if this "kids raised in a church" ideaology is partially to appease pressure from them.

I have personally ended a relationship that I wasn't ready to end, because of differences that couldn't be resolved, different issue, same outcome: I let her go although it broke my heart. If you truly believe that you can never resolve that issue, then I have a lot of respect for your strength to go through with this breakup. It's tough, but you're probably doing the right thing.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

All I got to say is when you have kids there will be some huge problems raising the kids. It's better if you end it now my friend before you do have kids and then you guys argue everyday on how you will raise the child.

 

[georgie24]

As Jophil likes to say, cheating starts LONG before the zippers come undone. Make no mistake, this girl WAS cheating on you.

Her problem was that this site made you aware enough to identify when things were getting "odd". That prompted your action and voila, we have a woman in hysterics.

Once she finally admits what the problem was, she starts feeding you "trickle-truth" and deleting texts and emails.

The problem with men is that many of us will ignore the evidence right in front of us, especially if there is a crying girl in the corner giving you all of the words you want to hear, despite what her actions were regarding her ex.

Do not fall for it. She did everything wrong with you in the end and in order to atone for her sins she asks YOU to pay the price. What price? The price of going back to a woman who had so little respect for you that she was constantly contacting her ex. Remember, the best revenge is living on in your ex's head.

Walking away is the best thing you could ever have done. Find a woman who will not disrespect you, as respect is Number ONE in the list of requirements for a good woman.

amen bro

 

[vatoloco]

I'd like to point out this little gem for those still thinking that the religion aspect was the main factor in this conundrum. This is from a text she sent our friend 49au (bold emphasis mine):

"Religion is the main thing. I have been thinking about my ex. But because I never got closure. I'm not gonna get it. I had an abortion (with him) and now I'm doing them in this rotation. It's very hard. My best friend just had a baby bc she wasn't a coward and had an abortion."

We now return to your regularly-scheduled thread, already in progress...

 

[49au]

Similar text from another conversation:

The real issue i have is religion ok. And if we could have just compromised with me on that then it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Regarding the abortion and its relation to the religion issue, this is from just a few minutes later:

Its something that I've been feeling for a while. I regret that decision. Just because I compromised my morals and beliefs to make everyone happy. And I don't wanna do that again.
I never saw the ultrasound when I got it done. But I see the women here at 2 months which was how far along I was. It was a fully formed fetus. I know it was a hard choice. I just feel guilty.

... a few messages later:

Me: what's strange is that I never asked for more commitment.

Her: I felt like we were headed that way. And it I don't want to say I'm not over my ex. It's not like that. I don't wanna be with him. I don't know why I think about it. And I do value you. That's why I've been putting the religion thing aside. But I also felt like things were getting serious and we needed to figure that out.

I think she feels that by ignoring her feelings over religion she is compromising her values like she did with the abortion, which she still feels tremendous guilt and remorse about. That association is very powerful and could cause serious problems in the way she feels about me.

When women feel guilt, or pressure, or sadness, or fear, what do they do? Withdraw.




p.s. In my last LTR we had the same situation. She got pregnant and I did NOT want to have a child at that stage of my life or with that girl in general. The ethics of abortion are another discussion entirely, but I told her plainly that I did NOT think it was a good idea to keep the baby. She had the abortion and felt extremely guilty. It messed her up for a long time. Whether or not she secretly wanted an abortion as well or NOT, outwardly she blamed me. I was the scapegoat to help her project her guilt. So for this girl to have had an abortion with the ex, and feel like sh1t about it to this day, is a powerful emotion and some kind of sick bond.