Can anyone confirm this (crazy ****)
- Thread starter Casino
- Start date
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
very true.
Happened if I am not mistaken over the weekend.
I can dig up the link if you really want me too, but It will require me to do more work then I really feel like doing
Happened if I am not mistaken over the weekend.
I can dig up the link if you really want me too, but It will require me to do more work then I really feel like doing
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
spider_007
Master Don Juan
I don't see what the big deal is about looting. People don't have food, clean watter or dry cloths...... Haw the hell are you suposed to survive??? Wait 5 days for national guard to show up??? It's the metter of surrvival. It's not like They are gona put wallmart out of buisness.
AND IF YOU SHOOT AT COPS AND NATIONAL GUARD WHEN THEY TRY TO SAVE PEOPLE, THEY SHOULD BLOW YOUR ASS UP.
AND IF YOU SHOOT AT COPS AND NATIONAL GUARD WHEN THEY TRY TO SAVE PEOPLE, THEY SHOULD BLOW YOUR ASS UP.
My pulse started racing when I heard about this.
I expect and hope it's all an exaggeration, but in modern day America I'm having doubts. I mean, when you consider the amount of black votes that went uncounted during the original Bush election, the rise of racism among the people and in the media, and the Muslim Inquisition (aka "The War on Terror"), it's not too hard to believe.
Yes, I can understand them opening fire on armed and dangerous criminals in order to protect life, but since when has looting carried a death penalty?
The way things are going, it may only be a matter of time before we see another Tiananmen Square incident.
I sincerely hope these reports have been exaggerated otherwise a frightening future awaits.
I expect and hope it's all an exaggeration, but in modern day America I'm having doubts. I mean, when you consider the amount of black votes that went uncounted during the original Bush election, the rise of racism among the people and in the media, and the Muslim Inquisition (aka "The War on Terror"), it's not too hard to believe.
Yes, I can understand them opening fire on armed and dangerous criminals in order to protect life, but since when has looting carried a death penalty?
The way things are going, it may only be a matter of time before we see another Tiananmen Square incident.
I sincerely hope these reports have been exaggerated otherwise a frightening future awaits.
diplomatic_lies
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2002
- Messages
- 4,368
- Reaction score
- 8
Under Martial Law the police are a little tougher than usual. Considering people are running amok, murdering each other, stealing, bashing up people, raping little 10-year-olds...
Somehow, I can't see the police going "Excuse me, Mr Looter, sir, could you please stop looting? And put that machinegun down."
Somehow, I can't see the police going "Excuse me, Mr Looter, sir, could you please stop looting? And put that machinegun down."
man this has been a massive failure at all levels of govt.
from the city to the sate to the president himself.
it is what happen when your leaders lack accountability and compassion.
had this been a predominantly white community the government would of been there ASAP. But now that it's a poor black community the help and money doesn't get there for 5 days.
i mean..people were dying of thirst.
crazy ****.
from the city to the sate to the president himself.
it is what happen when your leaders lack accountability and compassion.
had this been a predominantly white community the government would of been there ASAP. But now that it's a poor black community the help and money doesn't get there for 5 days.
i mean..people were dying of thirst.
crazy ****.
diplomatic_lies
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2002
- Messages
- 4,368
- Reaction score
- 8
Have you consider other factors such as:
Communications
Difficulty in distributing aid supplies (esp. with bandits taking potshots at the aid teams)
Disorganisation (cuz y'know, the town's just been wiped out)
Its interesting how after every disaster, people suddenly point out all the faults in the government. Murder and rape are human crimes, caused by humans. Nobody in the government told anyone to do any murdering, raping, looting, or shoot at aid workers.
Communications
Difficulty in distributing aid supplies (esp. with bandits taking potshots at the aid teams)
Disorganisation (cuz y'know, the town's just been wiped out)
Its interesting how after every disaster, people suddenly point out all the faults in the government. Murder and rape are human crimes, caused by humans. Nobody in the government told anyone to do any murdering, raping, looting, or shoot at aid workers.
il_duce
Master Don Juan
Looting is not acceptable. If people are looking for food and water, that's fine. But if someone is carrying a TV out of a store, they should be shot, no question.
In situations like this, harsh measures need to be taken. If they actually let people get away with widespread looting in the city, it would only make the situation worse.
In situations like this, harsh measures need to be taken. If they actually let people get away with widespread looting in the city, it would only make the situation worse.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
1. It's not that they were looting... I mean as of right now nothing really has currency anyway. It's that they are going around with guns killing and raping people more than anything else.
New Orleans had some serious problems before the storm, which became apparent in the aftermath of the storm. Every city has its looters; but New Orleans apparently has more than its share. And they took over and ran the city for awhile, chasing away helpers and delaying efforts to help those in need.
If New Orleans "comes back", lets hope it's a city with fewer problems.
"What was not anticipated was the way the Hurricane tore at our human divisions.
First out of the gate were the Holy Men of the Cult of Global Warming, who couldn’t wait for the first dead to wash up before they declared the Hurricane irrefutable proof of Global Warming and a direct responsibility of George W. Bush.
Next up were the racial ambulance chasers, always looking for another grievous injury to add to their political caseload. Looking at the Sea of Black faces abandoned without transportation, food, water or protection, they somehow managed to look past the City’s Black Mayor, Black Police Chief, Black City Council members and all the other Black office holders that run the 67% Black city, and found that the whole thing was: white folks’ fault. Yet another example of racism at its worst.
This opened up a torrent of Bush-bashing, since he was the closest Republican that had any responsibility for the City. The Democratic Governor of Louisiana -- though white -- was merely a victim of the whole thing it seems, just like the Mayor of New Orleans. Nobody has any power in this world other than George Bush. Nobody has any responsibility. George Bush is now the navel of the world for his enemies. If a butterfly flaps its wings in Central Park, it’s George Bush’s fault. And the butterfly is racist. And it was blown there by Global Warming.
And at some point during the disaster, the most disturbing of all the infighting began. The thugs of New Orleans turned on their neighbors like a Mongol horde. Looting erupted, as did arson and robberies, shootings and beatings. Rape became an organized crime as gangs preyed on the defenseless stranded girls of New Orleans. Pharmacies were looted and hospitals were surrounded and invaded in a manic hunt for drugs. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin couldn’t stop such junkie armies from destroying much of what was left of the City’s medical infrastructure, but he could excuse them, explaining that it was all just people “looking for something to take the edge off their jones, if you will.” Actually, no, I won’t. (The mayor added a few minutes later in the same interview: “You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.” And nobody said different, Mayor.)
Barbarians with an edgy jones shot a cop in the head, shot a national guardsman, halted life-saving evacuations by firing on helicopters and humvees. Police had to mow down a gang of six shooting at contractors who came to repair the levee breaches. A group of white civilians that came into the city in private boats to save as many refugees as they could -- giving lie to the racism howls of the media -- gave up and turned back because people began shooting at them, trying to take their boats.
Soldiers who should be concentrating on rescue operations are carrying full battle gear through the streets of an American City, opening doors with rifles at the ready. Overnight, it seems, The Big Easy had become Thunderdome, and Mad Max was nowhere to be found.
In the middle of the worst American natural disaster in over a century, gang warfare, anti-authority psychosis and individual malevolence finished off the hope of tens of thousands that had survived the flood. It did more to demoralize the nation than the storm had done.
What happened?
The storm may have triggered the violence, but it did not cause it. What we saw in New Orleans was what happens in America’s most murderous city when the criminals realize that all the cops have left.
It wasn’t desperation, or insanity, or protest. It was New Orleans, without police.
Many people believe that Washington, D.C., is the “murder capital of America.” And indeed it often is, but that is only because such rankings are limited to “major cities” –those with a population of 500,000 or more, and New Orleans has (or had) a population of 485,000. Were it not for this actuarial accident, Washington, D.C.. wouldn’t even have a shot at the murder title. The per capita murder rate in New Orleans is 16% higher than in “Murder Capital” Washington, D.C.; and nearly 10 times the national average. To have a murder rate equal to that of New York City, New Orleans would need to reduce its murders by 86%. No, that’s not a typo.
At a time when crime is plummeting in most of America, it has been steadily increasing in New Orleans. And one cause is simple: The New Orleans City Government has run its law enforcement apparatus into the ground. On a per capita basis, New Orleans has less than half as many cops as Washington, D.C.: just 3.1 police officers per 1,000 citizens. Turnover has become a huge issue, as young cops leave at the first opportunity. A report conducted for the city two years ago said that New Orleans was “bleeding police officers.”
The strain shows. Fewer than one in four murder cases in New Orleans results in a conviction. 42% of violent offenders have their charges dropped by prosecutors because the cases are “not suitable for court.” Many in New Orleans will not now testify against the thugs that they know -- more likely than not -- are going to be released Scot-free. People don’t even bother calling the police in New Orleans anymore. In 2004, academic Researchers conducted an experiment in which they had police fire 700 blank rounds into the air, in a single afternoon, in one neighborhood. No one -- not one person -- called to report the gunfire. It was background noise.
The report on police levels mentioned above stated that New Orleans needs 2,000 cops just to maintain order in normal times. When Katrina struck, the city had only 1,700. No more than 1,500 are on duty now, after dislocation, desertions, resignations, and two suicides.
There is no wonder the place went chaotic. There should be no mystery. It is barely under control on a good day.
Why are the cops leaving? They are utterly demoralized. They face low pay to fight a losing war against crime in a city that will not commit resources to the battle. “We have to use our own shotguns," one patrolman was quoted in the New York Times. "This isn't theirs; this is my personal gun."
They are demoralized because they have to bear the reputation of working in what is widely acknowledged as the most corrupt police department in the country. More than fifty NOPD officers were sent to prison in the 1990’s, two of them to death row.
They are demoralized because they have to live in New Orleans, due to a strict residency requirement for police. And unless you are wealthy enough to live in the perpetual party of the Vieux Carre, New Orleans is not a nice place to live -- especially for those with children. 84% of officers with children reported sending them to private or parochial schools, at their own expense. That’s quite an endorsement of Mayor Nagin’s schools.
So they leave, and are not replaced. It is not just “white flight” either, for those that want to see the world through racial lenses. Most of those leaving are black officers.
All this is not to say that New Orleans has had no plan to reduce its high crime statistics. For a while, one police district tried lying about the statistics. It meant letting some violent thugs go (and with an edge on their joneses, I’m told), but it was cheaper than fighting real crime; and it kept the tourists coming.
Asked if such lying meant that perhaps the NOPD should have its stats audited by an outside agency, Police Chief Eddie Compass stated, “I don't need an outside agency coming in. I think we have proven that we are capable of taking care of our own house.”
This is the same Chief that now screams on camera for outside agencies to just take over. As soon as order is restored, you can bet the New Orleans City Government will rediscover its need for independence -- and privacy.
The overnight crisis we saw in New Orleans this week has been a long time coming. It was just the bursting of a purulent boil that has been festering for years.
www.macjohnson.com.
New Orleans had some serious problems before the storm, which became apparent in the aftermath of the storm. Every city has its looters; but New Orleans apparently has more than its share. And they took over and ran the city for awhile, chasing away helpers and delaying efforts to help those in need.
If New Orleans "comes back", lets hope it's a city with fewer problems.
"What was not anticipated was the way the Hurricane tore at our human divisions.
First out of the gate were the Holy Men of the Cult of Global Warming, who couldn’t wait for the first dead to wash up before they declared the Hurricane irrefutable proof of Global Warming and a direct responsibility of George W. Bush.
Next up were the racial ambulance chasers, always looking for another grievous injury to add to their political caseload. Looking at the Sea of Black faces abandoned without transportation, food, water or protection, they somehow managed to look past the City’s Black Mayor, Black Police Chief, Black City Council members and all the other Black office holders that run the 67% Black city, and found that the whole thing was: white folks’ fault. Yet another example of racism at its worst.
This opened up a torrent of Bush-bashing, since he was the closest Republican that had any responsibility for the City. The Democratic Governor of Louisiana -- though white -- was merely a victim of the whole thing it seems, just like the Mayor of New Orleans. Nobody has any power in this world other than George Bush. Nobody has any responsibility. George Bush is now the navel of the world for his enemies. If a butterfly flaps its wings in Central Park, it’s George Bush’s fault. And the butterfly is racist. And it was blown there by Global Warming.
And at some point during the disaster, the most disturbing of all the infighting began. The thugs of New Orleans turned on their neighbors like a Mongol horde. Looting erupted, as did arson and robberies, shootings and beatings. Rape became an organized crime as gangs preyed on the defenseless stranded girls of New Orleans. Pharmacies were looted and hospitals were surrounded and invaded in a manic hunt for drugs. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin couldn’t stop such junkie armies from destroying much of what was left of the City’s medical infrastructure, but he could excuse them, explaining that it was all just people “looking for something to take the edge off their jones, if you will.” Actually, no, I won’t. (The mayor added a few minutes later in the same interview: “You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.” And nobody said different, Mayor.)
Barbarians with an edgy jones shot a cop in the head, shot a national guardsman, halted life-saving evacuations by firing on helicopters and humvees. Police had to mow down a gang of six shooting at contractors who came to repair the levee breaches. A group of white civilians that came into the city in private boats to save as many refugees as they could -- giving lie to the racism howls of the media -- gave up and turned back because people began shooting at them, trying to take their boats.
Soldiers who should be concentrating on rescue operations are carrying full battle gear through the streets of an American City, opening doors with rifles at the ready. Overnight, it seems, The Big Easy had become Thunderdome, and Mad Max was nowhere to be found.
In the middle of the worst American natural disaster in over a century, gang warfare, anti-authority psychosis and individual malevolence finished off the hope of tens of thousands that had survived the flood. It did more to demoralize the nation than the storm had done.
What happened?
The storm may have triggered the violence, but it did not cause it. What we saw in New Orleans was what happens in America’s most murderous city when the criminals realize that all the cops have left.
It wasn’t desperation, or insanity, or protest. It was New Orleans, without police.
Many people believe that Washington, D.C., is the “murder capital of America.” And indeed it often is, but that is only because such rankings are limited to “major cities” –those with a population of 500,000 or more, and New Orleans has (or had) a population of 485,000. Were it not for this actuarial accident, Washington, D.C.. wouldn’t even have a shot at the murder title. The per capita murder rate in New Orleans is 16% higher than in “Murder Capital” Washington, D.C.; and nearly 10 times the national average. To have a murder rate equal to that of New York City, New Orleans would need to reduce its murders by 86%. No, that’s not a typo.
At a time when crime is plummeting in most of America, it has been steadily increasing in New Orleans. And one cause is simple: The New Orleans City Government has run its law enforcement apparatus into the ground. On a per capita basis, New Orleans has less than half as many cops as Washington, D.C.: just 3.1 police officers per 1,000 citizens. Turnover has become a huge issue, as young cops leave at the first opportunity. A report conducted for the city two years ago said that New Orleans was “bleeding police officers.”
The strain shows. Fewer than one in four murder cases in New Orleans results in a conviction. 42% of violent offenders have their charges dropped by prosecutors because the cases are “not suitable for court.” Many in New Orleans will not now testify against the thugs that they know -- more likely than not -- are going to be released Scot-free. People don’t even bother calling the police in New Orleans anymore. In 2004, academic Researchers conducted an experiment in which they had police fire 700 blank rounds into the air, in a single afternoon, in one neighborhood. No one -- not one person -- called to report the gunfire. It was background noise.
The report on police levels mentioned above stated that New Orleans needs 2,000 cops just to maintain order in normal times. When Katrina struck, the city had only 1,700. No more than 1,500 are on duty now, after dislocation, desertions, resignations, and two suicides.
There is no wonder the place went chaotic. There should be no mystery. It is barely under control on a good day.
Why are the cops leaving? They are utterly demoralized. They face low pay to fight a losing war against crime in a city that will not commit resources to the battle. “We have to use our own shotguns," one patrolman was quoted in the New York Times. "This isn't theirs; this is my personal gun."
They are demoralized because they have to bear the reputation of working in what is widely acknowledged as the most corrupt police department in the country. More than fifty NOPD officers were sent to prison in the 1990’s, two of them to death row.
They are demoralized because they have to live in New Orleans, due to a strict residency requirement for police. And unless you are wealthy enough to live in the perpetual party of the Vieux Carre, New Orleans is not a nice place to live -- especially for those with children. 84% of officers with children reported sending them to private or parochial schools, at their own expense. That’s quite an endorsement of Mayor Nagin’s schools.
So they leave, and are not replaced. It is not just “white flight” either, for those that want to see the world through racial lenses. Most of those leaving are black officers.
All this is not to say that New Orleans has had no plan to reduce its high crime statistics. For a while, one police district tried lying about the statistics. It meant letting some violent thugs go (and with an edge on their joneses, I’m told), but it was cheaper than fighting real crime; and it kept the tourists coming.
Asked if such lying meant that perhaps the NOPD should have its stats audited by an outside agency, Police Chief Eddie Compass stated, “I don't need an outside agency coming in. I think we have proven that we are capable of taking care of our own house.”
This is the same Chief that now screams on camera for outside agencies to just take over. As soon as order is restored, you can bet the New Orleans City Government will rediscover its need for independence -- and privacy.
The overnight crisis we saw in New Orleans this week has been a long time coming. It was just the bursting of a purulent boil that has been festering for years.
www.macjohnson.com.
familyguyfan
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2005
- Messages
- 558
- Reaction score
- 0
They're not talking about people taking food and necessites. They're talking about the people stealing TVs and such.
And, GREAT post Backbreaker. I agree with most of what you said. However, I will say that I do think that desperation and panic did play a part in all of the stuff that happened. There were definitely plenty of thugs there that acted due to a lack of authority and police, but there were also plenty of people that acted out of desperation and panic.
Re:
Good post, backbreaker. Very informative.
Something to consider...
The state must request assistance from the federal level to begin work. It's how the constitution works, though this is not always the case as we see the fed. step in when they want and choose to.
The levies, built eons ago were only speced to uphold a CAT 3, supposedly, and this being a CAT 5, obviously obliterated the hell out of N.O. Worse off, reports have come in from lesser known news sources that a barge hit one of the levees during the storm, causing the flooding.
Martial Law was declared sometime ago that basically puts the Writ of Habeas Corpus on suspension. Meaning, law enforce and military officals don't need due process to enact order. They deal order out of their on discretion. If someone is killed, "whoops, Martial law." If they steal or loot themselves, "whoops, Martial law." It's a temporary (hopefully) police state where rights are suspended because true democracy would be in fact dangerous to the outcome.
Things that get me...
We insure our homes, cars, and lives, for the least likely, yet most devastating circumstances. A CAT 5 hurriane in Louisiana was one of the top 3 worst scenarios to befall the US predicted years ago. Why didn't someone "insure" New Orleans against such losses?
My opinion...
From people who have been there, and told me about Buloxey, LA and such, the area is so poor, it is in fact MORE costly reinforce the levees than to level the homes. The poor being so poor, higher up, inside sources didn't care.
Can one honestly believe we land men on the moon, spend billions on instruments of war, but can't get some simple walls made solid so protect people????
This was premeditated act, just as was 9-11.
Looting has sprung up b/c supplies are on short order. Millions have been displaced, and treated like animals. As far as we know, people are without food, shelter, sanity, showers, clothing, etc, basically everything, what have they got to lose? It's survival of the fittest. And though it isn't right to fire or shoot on officials, what else would you do if you felt abandoned by your government, those we pay to protect us, inform us, and take care of us???
-----------------------------------------
A-Unit
Good post, backbreaker. Very informative.
Something to consider...
The state must request assistance from the federal level to begin work. It's how the constitution works, though this is not always the case as we see the fed. step in when they want and choose to.
The levies, built eons ago were only speced to uphold a CAT 3, supposedly, and this being a CAT 5, obviously obliterated the hell out of N.O. Worse off, reports have come in from lesser known news sources that a barge hit one of the levees during the storm, causing the flooding.
Martial Law was declared sometime ago that basically puts the Writ of Habeas Corpus on suspension. Meaning, law enforce and military officals don't need due process to enact order. They deal order out of their on discretion. If someone is killed, "whoops, Martial law." If they steal or loot themselves, "whoops, Martial law." It's a temporary (hopefully) police state where rights are suspended because true democracy would be in fact dangerous to the outcome.
Things that get me...
We insure our homes, cars, and lives, for the least likely, yet most devastating circumstances. A CAT 5 hurriane in Louisiana was one of the top 3 worst scenarios to befall the US predicted years ago. Why didn't someone "insure" New Orleans against such losses?
My opinion...
From people who have been there, and told me about Buloxey, LA and such, the area is so poor, it is in fact MORE costly reinforce the levees than to level the homes. The poor being so poor, higher up, inside sources didn't care.
Can one honestly believe we land men on the moon, spend billions on instruments of war, but can't get some simple walls made solid so protect people????
This was premeditated act, just as was 9-11.
Looting has sprung up b/c supplies are on short order. Millions have been displaced, and treated like animals. As far as we know, people are without food, shelter, sanity, showers, clothing, etc, basically everything, what have they got to lose? It's survival of the fittest. And though it isn't right to fire or shoot on officials, what else would you do if you felt abandoned by your government, those we pay to protect us, inform us, and take care of us???
-----------------------------------------
A-Unit
I doubt many people would point to this one incident alone and accuse the government of racism. But since they have a history of racism people are more inclined to draw that conclusion...even analysing them for anything that could be considered racist.
If the government had a better reputation in general, they wouldn't be blamed so often.
If the government had a better reputation in general, they wouldn't be blamed so often.
Docs
Banned
Consider this. New Orleans was hit by a natural disaster, it fell into turmoil. Think of a world wide war with the same effect.
Who'd be for war now? Because it's the same **** happening in Iraq because of America walking in. IT WAS bad before, agreeably, but either it's media coverage or the fact that more groups of anti-usa people have taken to attacking troops. Just count the dead bodies (rising daily) that Iraq has produced, plus the countless non-combatant deaths.
It will not be easy for New Orleans to return to it's 'normal' state of operation. There is insane amounts of damage, destruction and disorder that will take more then the effort being put in right now to hit the estimates of the experts. The crime that is occuring..will not subdue easy. The damage..will cause a large amount of the population of NO to leave, for the pure fact that they would not want to return to the disaster that the disaster created. NO will never be the same and I'm sure that unless some big assed government bills came down to assist. Other then that, I think it'll be years for NO to come back from it's current state to any degree of satisfaction.
Who'd be for war now? Because it's the same **** happening in Iraq because of America walking in. IT WAS bad before, agreeably, but either it's media coverage or the fact that more groups of anti-usa people have taken to attacking troops. Just count the dead bodies (rising daily) that Iraq has produced, plus the countless non-combatant deaths.
It will not be easy for New Orleans to return to it's 'normal' state of operation. There is insane amounts of damage, destruction and disorder that will take more then the effort being put in right now to hit the estimates of the experts. The crime that is occuring..will not subdue easy. The damage..will cause a large amount of the population of NO to leave, for the pure fact that they would not want to return to the disaster that the disaster created. NO will never be the same and I'm sure that unless some big assed government bills came down to assist. Other then that, I think it'll be years for NO to come back from it's current state to any degree of satisfaction.
Aztec
Master Don Juan
I smell a thread lock down if this topic diverts from its original intention.
The Antichrist_Star
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2002
- Messages
- 1,068
- Reaction score
- 3
- Age
- 39
You are correct. Backbreaker produced a very informative and well presented post and the following posts have started to take this thread in a place where it does not need to go.
A-Unit... I hate to inform you, but a Hurricane is not a premeditated act. What happened here was a failure of local and state (and in some respects) federal government. Nothing more, nothing less.
AS
