Can a Honest Man be a Don Juan?

iqqi

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KontrollerX said:
Then read a ton of Victory Unlimited, Karma Sutra, Str8up, Joekerr, aliasguy, and Rollo Tomassi posts.
Please skip this advice, lol. A couple of those guys are very bitter towards women, and I don't think you need that kind of mentality. Also I know of one who seems to "completely understand" women's ways... but can't seem to get a good one? And he is old. Weird, huh? ;)

Read this instead: Senor Fingerz.

Then read this: Mr. Fingerz.

I prescribe this thread first, to directly address your issue you mentioned: The power of detachment.

They are both the same guy. Fingz actually has his sh!t together. He doesn't hate women, his advice is SOLID, and accurate, and best yet, he is now happily married.

No you do not need to lie to get women, nor should you. But you could definately use some improvement. Read Fingz. It is the best thing you could do for yourself.
 
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Francisco d'Anconia

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scottfall said:
Ive been visiting SoSuave for the past few months and feel like I have learned aot. There is only one hole in my "game".. actually doing it. I know what I should do but unfortunatly I wear my emotions on my sleeve, making it hard to be so suave. If I feel like ive been wronged I either a) speak up or b)"play it off"... but Im easier to read than highlights magazine.

Anyways... just kind of thinking out loud.. want to remember this in the morning. Any help on over coming my inabilty to not "keep it real" would be appreciated.

Much love.
Being easily read isn't a problem if you present yourself authentically. The problem I see is that even though you aspire to become a DJ, you're focusing on being wronged. Why are you doing that?
 

Interceptor

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KarmaSutra said:
I concur with Commander KontrollerX that being a complete man, a Renaissance Man, is what makes a woman's heart beat like a drum. Being her girlfriend or worse her doormat will do nothing but sap any reflective energy you have.


We're all soldiers on the front line. Join us or be a rotting husk in the trench you dug for some woman's affections.



Consume your life with self development and improvement. Let your desire and drive come from your persistence to develop your own masculinity. Then you'll see them frothing at the mouth for YOUR attention.
Karma, can I tell you how much you inspire me, brother?

:yes:

And Thanks for your mentioning my name and support.


Interceptor
SS SOG
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
 

reset

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Interceptor said:
a man of high character, integrity, strength, honor,courage, a positive outlook, and a thirst for knowledge and self improvement , and of course a devilishly charming personality and sexuality.
...the path away from insecurity. Get those traits and the word "validation" will be like a word from a different language you can't understand.
 

KontrollerX

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Interceptor and reset I'm glad karma added you both as I would of but only overlooked ya cuz there's so damn many good posters here to mention its hard to keep track of all you good ones. :rockon:

"Please skip this advice, lol. A couple of those guys are very bitter towards women, and I don't think you need that kind of mentality. Also I know of one who seems to "completely understand" women's ways... but can't seem to get a good one? And he is old. Weird, huh? "

scottfall be advised that iqqi is a huge troll of this site and probably would be banned already if the membership didn't have so much fun repeatedly owning her/he/it.

Also it should be noted that the Iqqi account is very likely a man posing as a woman on here.

So with that said let me break down for you her/his/its trolling b.s by responding to the statement that a couple of guys that I listed whose posts I think you should read are "bitter towards women."

Victory Unlimited- Entertaining military type of poster who has been known to date single mommies which is a huge no no in the DJ community because of the inherint risk that they aren't so much interested in you as finding a new daddy for their abandoned offspring. Bitter towards women? Not at all considering this fact. VU has made it clear to the community however that the few single mommies he has dated have been of exceptional quality in character.

Karma Sutra- As far as I know Karma is happily married and has been for quite some time. Perhaps Iqqi took this opportunity to insult him as being bitter because she is jealous that he is taken?

Str8up- Too busy and locked down with work to be bitter about anything except that at the moment.

Joekerr- Come on you've got to be kidding me...this guy bitter about anything? He's the forum's inspiration. Always has a positive word for everyone and anyone male or female that would listen.

aliasguy- Has experienced many horrible things from women but learned that he was simply regarding them the wrong way so he learned to accept them for what they are through what he deems "pattern recognition." By observing the women in his life's behaviour over time he has come to understand how to deal with the women in his life in effective ways that benefit him greatly and no longer harm him and as a result he is now happier than ever with women and his life.

Rollo Tomassi- A great man who has been happily married for about 11 years now. I'd imagine the only thing bitter in Rollo's life would be a lemon that he ate for breakfast one morning.

So yeah as you can see scott iqqi as usual fails at all levels.
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

scottfall

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reset said:
...the path away from insecurity. Get those traits and the word "validation" will be like a word from a different language you can't understand.
I think the need to be validated has alot to do with it. I know we all have our issues but I dont feel like anyones ever really validated me as a person.. my looks, humor, intelect, feelings.. and so forth. The first time I really ever felt this was with my ex, there was a moment where I relized that she really did like me as much as I liked her. It was all down hill from there. :p (and Im sure she uses this to control me now, making me think the only reason she made me feel this way was to use/control me)

I know true validation can only come from within, but I feel like Ive already accomplished that. I like myself. I know Im a good looking guy whos funny and smart. I just really really really want other people to see it.
 

reset

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scottfall said:
I like myself. I know Im a good looking guy whos funny and smart. I just really really really want other people to see it.
Here's the thing. If you really DO have those great qualities, other people DO see it. Damn. The thing is really seeing it in yourself. I've had people tell me how great they thought I was and I would think "yeah that's nice they are just saying that to make me feel good" or whatever, but I realize they really DID mean what they were saying.

Other people are all different. Interceptor said something in another thread... that to receive something from someone they have to be able to actually GIVE IT, and they can only give what they have in THEMSELVES.

So... like you get involved with an insecure girl who does not have the ability to be open, honest, loving, nurturing (all the good stuff), and you can bang your head against the wall, while not realizing you're trying to get something from them that doesn't exist. If you really had it within there would be no "NEED" to get it from someone else. And you would see clearly early on that this person did not have the qualites you desire, so it probably wouldn't even get to that point.

Guess what I'm saying is trying to get someone to "see something" in you, when they don't have the ability to see it in themselves.... is just asking for trouble and sleepless nights. The more you have that stuff in yourself, the more you can GIVE it to others.... and I believe the more positive vibes you send out, the more postive people you attract into your life.

Is it much wonder that when I was insecure, and doubted myself, that I was sourrounded by people who were insecure and doubted themselves?
 

Microphone Fiend

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I skimmed through a couple posts and I think the title of the thread is thought provoking. My two cents is that an honest man cannot be a DJ (and by Don Juan, I mean seducer).

People here speak about how the Don Juan is the binary opposite of a PUA. ie: honest, truthful, respectful of ladies, etc. But even the origin of the Don Juan speaks to the contrary:
Wikipedia said:
In the legend, Don Juan is a roguish libertine who takes great pleasure in seducing women and (in most versions) enjoys fighting their champions. The main force of the legend revolves around his either raping or seducing a young woman of noble family, and killing her father.
In truthness, in the world we live in the 'honest' are not seducing but seduced. If we look at one of the most famous portrayals of Don Juan by the popular writer (and even more popular seducer) Lord Byron, he helps to illustrate this fact of life.

Wikipedia said:
The Romantic poet Lord Byron wrote an epic version of Don Juan that is considered his masterpiece. It was unfinished at his death, but portrays Don Juan as the innocent victim of a repressive Catholic upbringing who unwittingly stumbles upon and into love time and again
Wikipedia said:
Lord Byron's Don Juan is less seducer than victim of women's desire and unfortunate circumstance.
Trying to appear honesty as a seducer shows that you adhere to rules that, contrary to popular belief, are not universal by any means, that you are a slave to a system or your own conscience, and deem others as outcasts or immoral when they break free of the matrix.

Innocence is praised in the same manner that your childhood home is missed: There is the idea of security and child-like happiness which, unbeknownst to you was holding you back all along, from responsibility, decision making and many other traits you only learn by becoming your own individiual

The idea of a seducer being honest (read: innocent) seems to be the result of the society we live in that looks to highlight the aspects that help the society and impede those that help the individual. IMO, the real DJ realizes that he is beyond innocent and guilt and acts in a manner that he believes helps to better himself as a person, not him as a person in society.
 

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Interceptor said:
With the Don Juan ideal being a man of high character, integrity, strength, honor,courage, a positive outlook, and a thirst for knowledge and self improvement, and of course a devilishly charming personality and sexuality. Yes, of course he can.
A list of supposed attributes which can be faked with practise and are very subjective, often overlooked or misunderstood by women, especially given their irrational and fickle nature. It's funny, people list this but it doesn't really correlate well with real life. Like tall guys do a lot better, white guys do a lot better, rich guys do a lot better etc. They aren't renowned for charm, intelligence, sexuality etc. If you want intelligence that's indians/chinese/greeks, charm and sexuality then blacks, thirst for knowledge are 3rd world people, integrity and courage are old war heroes. Which of these does a thin ok looking 6' 2" generic white guy have that gets him a pretty white girl? None? Faking it? IMO boils down to superficial stuff and illusions girls fall for, like drinking and being the group's loud mouth, girls gossiping about him, luck with social circles, fixed commonalities etc.

MM
 

JLR

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I think it depends upon your definition of "Don Juan." To me, yes, a prerequisite for being a true DJ is honesty/sincerity, whatever term you'd like to use. To me, being a DJ is about being a man, not a facsimile thereof. A real man, to me, is "honest"; in fact, I think it's in one's best long-term interests to be so. Hard to be true to yourself w/out being honest, IMO... Of course, the counter argument can be that deceitfulness is the core trait of a certain individual. But if that's the case, according to the way I choose to define "DJ", a deceitful person cannot become a true DJ..
 

Channel your excited feelings into positive thoughts and behaviors. You will attract women by being enthusiastic, radiating energy, and becoming someone who is fun to be around.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

iqqi

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Mad Manic said:
A list of supposed attributes which can be faked with practise and are very subjective, often overlooked or misunderstood by women, especially given their irrational and fickle nature. It's funny, people list this but it doesn't really correlate well with real life. Like tall guys do a lot better, white guys do a lot better, rich guys do a lot better etc. They aren't renowned for charm, intelligence, sexuality etc. If you want intelligence that's indians/chinese/greeks, charm and sexuality then blacks, thirst for knowledge are 3rd world people, integrity and courage are old war heroes. Which of these does a thin ok looking 6' 2" generic white guy have that gets him a pretty white girl? None? Faking it? IMO boils down to superficial stuff and illusions girls fall for, like drinking and being the group's loud mouth, girls gossiping about him, luck with social circles, fixed commonalities etc.

MM
do you really think this way!?

Good LORD.
 

Mad Manic

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iqqi said:
do you really think this way!?

Good LORD.
Girls aren't logical. They rarely judge a guy on just him. Put him alone, he has x value. Put him with 20 hot babes on his arms and girls suddenly think he is god. Put him with the ugliest girl in the world and girls associate him with uglies and so he's now a loser. It's all about perception, illusions, etc. Clearly girls often use society and others to judge for them. Guys judge a girl on them, even if it's superficial. They don't care if Tony or Derek think she's only a HB 6. But girls are fickle and are emotionally driven. How many times do we hear poor explanations with no logical basis from girls, 'I don't know, he just makes me feel like ...' and the proverbial 'nice guys finish last'. Girls are INFERIOR at logical based subjects.

And Iqqi, before criticising me, answer what I said directly. If those are supposed attributes then WHY does it not correlate with what we see. How racial commonalities, wealth, height etc. are evidently very important and how people are 'gaming' girls which IMO involves deception, illusion, trickery, crafty tactics etc. Why aren't skinny indians, low class blacks and old guys getting some?

MM
 

iqqi

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Mad Manic said:
Why aren't skinny indians, low class blacks and old guys getting some?
they ARE. what universe are you living in?

it is hard for me to address what you are saying seriously, because I can't take you seriously. your comments are SO far to the extreme that they are irrational.

the number one thing for you to understand is not all women are the same. and not all women like the same thing. so some don't like skinny indian guys. some DO! some don't like "low class blacks"... guess what! some DO. some ONLY date that type, AND they themselves do not fit that description. And yes, OLD GUYS are getting some, because SOME women prefer older (yes, even way older) men. It is all about peoples boats, and what floats them.
 

Mad Manic

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iqqi said:
they ARE. what universe are you living in?

it is hard for me to address what you are saying seriously, because I can't take you seriously. your comments are SO far to the extreme that they are irrational.

the number one thing for you to understand is not all women are the same. and not all women like the same thing. so some don't like skinny indian guys. some DO! some don't like "low class blacks"... guess what! some DO. some ONLY date that type, AND they themselves do not fit that description. And yes, OLD GUYS are getting some, because SOME women prefer older (yes, even way older) men. It is all about peoples boats, and what floats them.
Some = few and considerably less than the types of guys I mentioned. Young pretty girls are rarely interested in skinny indians, low class blacks and old guys. There are always exceptions but as a collective in a forum we are concerned with trends, not exceptions. Because we can use the trends to our advantage. Like one trend is to be confident, I'm sure there are a few girls out there who like shy unconfident guys. Infact that's probably more liked than intelligent skinny indians or old guys over the hill ironically.

This might sound blunt, but lets hit the truth here. Most guys are gunning for the young, attractive white western women as 1st choice, that's why asian and black girls are less flakey with numbers when you try to arrange a date (less sought after). These girls typically go with white guys who have a lot of fixed commonalities with them or maybe some good illusion-making black guy to have sex with.

Infact if you run a search on here and find threads about asian guys compared to white guys and all sorts, you'll definitely see what I mean. Bottom line is that those attributes are very subjective and can be faked and it's usually the superficial things and faking ability that reign supreme.

Infact Iqqi, if a thin ok looking generic 6' 2" white guy approached 100 pretty white girls and a skinny, academic, vegetarian indian guy approached the same 100, who do u think would get more dates?

MM
 

iqqi

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Mad Manic said:
Some = few and considerably less than the types of guys I mentioned. Young pretty girls are rarely interested in skinny indians, low class blacks and old guys. There are always exceptions but as a collective in a forum we are concerned with trends, not exceptions. Because we can use the trends to our advantage. Like one trend is to be confident, I'm sure there are a few girls out there who like shy unconfident guys. Infact that's probably more liked than intelligent skinny indians or old guys over the hill ironically.

This might sound blunt, but lets hit the truth here. Most guys are gunning for the young, attractive white western women as 1st choice, that's why asian and black girls are less flakey with numbers when you try to arrange a date (less sought after). These girls typically go with white guys who have a lot of fixed commonalities with them or maybe some good illusion-making black guy to have sex with.

Infact if you run a search on here and find threads about asian guys compared to white guys and all sorts, you'll definitely see what I mean. Bottom line is that those attributes are very subjective and can be faked and it's usually the superficial things and faking ability that reign supreme.

Infact Iqqi, if a thin ok looking generic 6' 2" white guy approached 100 pretty white girls and a skinny, academic, vegetarian indian guy approached the same 100, who do u think would get more dates?

MM

I definately can't argue with all your facts and statistics!

I certainly don't live in the world you just described. Most people I witness and know first hand don't approach a bunch of random people for one. They have a chemistry with a certain other individual, they connect, they establish something. Those people I described are old, young, white, black, ethnic, skinny, fat, muslim, atheist, vegetarian, omnivourous, pale, tan, long hair, bald, ect. ect. ect. mutherfriggin cetera.
 

TheHumanist

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Mad Manic said:
if a thin ok looking generic 6' 2" white guy approached 100 pretty white girls and a skinny, academic, vegetarian indian guy approached the same 100, who do u think would get more dates?
I despise everything you just said and you just said everything going completely against DJ philosophy... but that's not going to point out the flaw in the argument.

What would happen if a skinny, academic, vegetarian white guy approach 100 pretty white girls and a 6' 2" indian guy done that? Is it so much as race or qualities?

Expanding that, could it be more like the skinny, academic, vegetarian trend to come in stuttering and falling apart or those qualities?

Argg... Iqqi and everyone, I suggest to let him have the last word. His mind is made up and all this will do is turn this in to a flame war with race and looks. That will get the thread locked.


scottfall be advised that iqqi is a huge troll of this site and probably would be banned already if the membership didn't have so much fun repeatedly owning her/he/it.

Also it should be noted that the Iqqi account is very likely a man posing as a woman on here.

So with that said let me break down for you her/his/its trolling b.s by responding to the statement that a couple of guys that I listed whose posts I think you should read are "bitter towards women."

Victory Unlimited- Entertaining military type of poster who has been known to date single mommies which is a huge no no in the DJ community because of the inherint risk that they aren't so much interested in you as finding a new daddy for their abandoned offspring. Bitter towards women? Not at all considering this fact. VU has made it clear to the community however that the few single mommies he has dated have been of exceptional quality in character.

Karma Sutra- As far as I know Karma is happily married and has been for quite some time. Perhaps Iqqi took this opportunity to insult him as being bitter because she is jealous that he is taken?

Str8up- Too busy and locked down with work to be bitter about anything except that at the moment.

Joekerr- Come on you've got to be kidding me...this guy bitter about anything? He's the forum's inspiration. Always has a positive word for everyone and anyone male or female that would listen.

aliasguy- Has experienced many horrible things from women but learned that he was simply regarding them the wrong way so he learned to accept them for what they are through what he deems "pattern recognition." By observing the women in his life's behaviour over time he has come to understand how to deal with the women in his life in effective ways that benefit him greatly and no longer harm him and as a result he is now happier than ever with women and his life.

Rollo Tomassi- A great man who has been happily married for about 11 years now. I'd imagine the only thing bitter in Rollo's life would be a lemon that he ate for breakfast one morning.

So yeah as you can see scott iqqi as usual fails at all levels.
I'm going to stick my neck out for once. I been watch the hate against Iqqi for a while, to be honest, I sort of suspect the hate is a large deal due to her statement as a girl. If she wasn't, I suspect there would be disagreements, but in far less hostile attacks back and forth. Let me defend Iqqi.

I do admit, the way she stated to ignore and said they are bitter, it was not the best wording. However, she did said a couple of these guys. I can see where that came from. Look in the people are good thread alone, you can see in that great debate that many (I have to admit that I also), suspect Str8up and Aliasguy might have a bitter attitude. Think about the writings of Rollo Tomassi, Str8up, and Aliasguy.

Rollo Tomassi have a great marriage going, but don't forget his writting. For a happily married man, I recall in a thread about how other guys are getting married, he really gave a harsh light to other married man, enough that Azanon came in and said that he cannot stand of how much he "belittles" them. How about the posts of how deep we are in the matrix, it sounds like the whole world except for a select few are brainwashed and unhappy and escaping is ungodly daunting.

Str8up is working dam hard at his dreams, but look at his thread about his dream eastern european girl, how his life is turning into a social experiment, or his posts in the people are good thread. How about his posts saying how fast can a girl lose all interest and how cold-hearted she can be after it gone.

Aliasguy have many interesting ideas, but posts very pessimistic view of people and women many times.


A person reading RT's posts can come out feeling like everyone is a brainwashed fool in the matrix. Think how can that affect how one views his friends and his relationships.

A person reading str8up posts can come out feeling like everyone is an enemy (the world is "just is") and women are unbearably frickle (reading his past relationships). One reading that have to wonder is there any hope.

A person reading aliasguy's posts can start believe that any relationship endeavored will leave him curshed in 1-4 years.

Now, I very much respect their ideas and find their posts very engaing, but I can see where she comminig from. For while I very much respect them and find their posts extremely interesting, many times, after reading their posts, I feel like the odds are stacked like a platoon against an entire army in an open field. My ideas are just a product of a social indoctrination, my friends are all fools still blind to the world (despite many have are in relationships), etc.

That what a person can get from their posts. I know, because that what I sometimes feel that what I got, that was the effect on my interactions with others after reading them.

Also, her post to suggesting senor fingers as the poster to read, well he's not a bad source to go by... is he?
 

MrS

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DJism is all about truth, y'all.
 

comic_relief

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TheHumanist said:
I despise everything you just said and you just said everything going completely against DJ philosophy... but that's not going to point out the flaw in the argument.

What would happen if a skinny, academic, vegetarian white guy approach 100 pretty white girls and a 6' 2" indian guy done that? Is it so much as race or qualities?

Expanding that, could it be more like the skinny, academic, vegetarian trend to come in stuttering and falling apart or those qualities?

Argg... Iqqi and everyone, I suggest to let him have the last word. His mind is made up and all this will do is turn this in to a flame war with race and looks. That will get the thread locked.




I'm going to stick my neck out for once. I been watch the hate against Iqqi for a while, to be honest, I sort of suspect the hate is a large deal due to her statement as a girl. If she wasn't, I suspect there would be disagreements, but in far less hostile attacks back and forth. Let me defend Iqqi.

I do admit, the way she stated to ignore and said they are bitter, it was not the best wording. However, she did said a couple of these guys. I can see where that came from. Look in the people are good thread alone, you can see in that great debate that many (I have to admit that I also), suspect Str8up and Aliasguy might have a bitter attitude. Think about the writings of Rollo Tomassi, Str8up, and Aliasguy.

Rollo Tomassi have a great marriage going, but don't forget his writting. For a happily married man, I recall in a thread about how other guys are getting married, he really gave a harsh light to other married man, enough that Azanon came in and said that he cannot stand of how much he "belittles" them. How about the posts of how deep we are in the matrix, it sounds like the whole world except for a select few are brainwashed and unhappy and escaping is ungodly daunting.

Str8up is working dam hard at his dreams, but look at his thread about his dream eastern european girl, how his life is turning into a social experiment, or his posts in the people are good thread. How about his posts saying how fast can a girl lose all interest and how cold-hearted she can be after it gone.

Aliasguy have many interesting ideas, but posts very pessimistic view of people and women many times.


A person reading RT's posts can come out feeling like everyone is a brainwashed fool in the matrix. Think how can that affect how one views his friends and his relationships.

A person reading str8up posts can come out feeling like everyone is an enemy (the world is "just is") and women are unbearably frickle (reading his past relationships). One reading that have to wonder is there any hope.

A person reading aliasguy's posts can start believe that any relationship endeavored will leave him curshed in 1-4 years.

Now, I very much respect their ideas and find their posts very engaing, but I can see where she comminig from. For while I very much respect them and find their posts extremely interesting, many times, after reading their posts, I feel like the odds are stacked like a platoon against an entire army in an open field. My ideas are just a product of a social indoctrination, my friends are all fools still blind to the world (despite many have are in relationships), etc.

That what a person can get from their posts. I know, because that what I sometimes feel that what I got, that was the effect on my interactions with others after reading them.

Also, her post to suggesting senor fingers as the poster to read, well he's not a bad source to go by... is he?
Beautiful post, yeah, I don't argue with Mad Manic and I put him on my ignore list a while ago.

comic_relief
 

KarmaSutra

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I'm not going to waste time bashing iqqi. Suffice it to say HE has aligned himself with the likes of player supreme and other mental midgets. HIS posts are erratic and non-linear which means HE cannot form a comprehensive thought on HIS own.

HE knows full well HE cannot hold his own with true men who come here. The Army and I are here to propagate self reliance and the development of the masculine. We do not bash women, or guys who go on men's forums pretending to be, or bash other brothers who are more easily led.

My PM box is full every fvcking day from guys who ask for my advice and guidance. I'm quite sure the rest of the ranking officers in the V.U. Army are in the same boat. The point being we have brothers and, in some cases, sisters who want direct and truth filled retort, which they recieve and in turn are rather grateful.

Lots of lurkers who don't want to walk the minefield of the Discussion board but still want help and life learning tools.

Just put iqqi and HIS kind on ignore and carry on with your own maturity.

General Karma out.
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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