Caller ID -- Must Be Defeated At All Costs!

[BGC]

Fellas,

The best thing I think we came to is that you try from a variety of locations.

That's the way Warren Beatty would be running his game. Think about it. If you're constantly at other people's places and offices, they can never tell it was you -- plus it proves you're in demand.

But if you can't get another phone, then you've still got some things to decide.

I wonder about people's experience here. People are saying leave a message and expect her to call you back.

Fukk no. This is just a standard, bros. Ain't no changing this. Before you've had a first date, a chick fukking won't call you back. NO MATTER HOW INTERESTED SHE IS.

And if she does call back, she's not super experienced or she's desperate.

I swear to god you guys, if you think the fact that a chick didn't call you back MEANS SHE'S NOT INTO YOU -- YOU'RE JUST PLAIN WRONG. She might be FUKKING NUTS ABOUT YOU -- but she still won't return your call.

And we can't change this standard ourselves.

And I'm not even interested in trying to change it.

Because I LIKE TO BE THE ONE CALLING.

You know some super players don't even GIVE their numbers to brawds.

Anyways, we still didn't resolve the issue.

I'm not sure there is a way, actually.

I'm really thinking e-mail.

These two brawds. I first called on Monday, left a message saying I'd called, nothing about calling me back -- didn't even leave my number.

Then I called back on Thursday. Neither was home.

So it's Tuesday now. I just e-mailed one.

And I'm going to try another from a pay phone.

And that's the other thing. A pay phone will solve this problem. Kind of.

And *67 will only convince her you're a creep.

PS DJ de Florida, nah, I aint' workin' there. Got my shhit fired! But isssss all goooood!

PSS

On leaving a message.

I agree actually that maybe leaving a message saying simply that you called and that you'll call again is kind of weak.

If you don't leave the message, you can call back in two or three days.

But consider this.

What if you leave a message, saying you called and that you'll call back, not for her to call you, and then you DON'T CALL FOR LIKE TEN DAYS?

Pretty dope, right?

'Cause then she'd be wondering why you're not calling.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T INTERESTED, SHE'S GONNA BE THINKING, "WHAT THE FUKK?"

Even if she planned on brushing you off when you called again, she might now be thinking like what was it that turned you off?

She might think that maybe her answerning machine message was dorky or weird and that that turned you off. Or that you heard something about her. You see what I mean?

And also, Chris, this brawd that called you back right away, and other guys who have had the same thing happen.

Did you bone them?

Because I don't want to be negative, but if a chick is looking at you AS A FRIEND, she will definitely call you back right away.

Guys, I'll just say it one more time because I've learned a lot on this board.

I think you guys who are expecting a brawd to call you back after you leave a message are seriously fukking yourselves in the asses.

MAYBE chicks should call you back if you leave a message.

I'm not arguing about the ethics or utility of the issue.

I'm talking about the reality -- that they don't.

And if you say, "Well then she's not going to be lucky enough to go out with me if she can't call me back" -- if you say that go ahead and buy a carton of Kleenex -- 'cause you're gonna be needin' it, you know what I mean.

------------------
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing."

--George Bernard Shaw

[This message has been edited by BGC (edited 02-06-2001).]

 

[ChrisFl]

> Before you've had a first date, a chick fukking won't call you back.

Mine does.

 

[Peak]

Maybe it's true that if a chick is keen on you that she won't call. This may be because she is shy, or whatever.

It seems that there are many of these girls about, as my recent experiencs have been showing.

For these girls I have a new tactic that has worked a charm!

It's a surprise tactic — marginal supplication at the beginning stages of getting to know one another.

Marginally supplicate with the phone calls and all her requests until the third date. Let her think she is running the show to an extent. Get her thinking that you might be easy to walk all over. Don't be a *****, but be very flexible to begin with, to a point where she gets used to the idea of you in her life. Then after the first kiss you turn into Mr Hardass who is always too busy to deal with her.

You see I think that we just have to break down that initial barrier that some women put up for us. I think it's the hardest part to get through cause she can easily blow you off if she is shy. Women make up all sorts of excuses, mainly cause they are scared and insecure about NEW things. Especially NEW MEN IN THEIR LIVES. Our imperfections cause these insecurities to grow. However, if we smooth the path initially then it's easy to turn the tables on her cause as DJ's we know how!

I want to be like a disease that they easily catch and initially has no symptoms. Then I want to turn into a red rash on their heart when I initiate challenge.

It did work like magic for me on a chick recently.

 

[swigue]

Originally posted by BGC:
Fellas,

I wonder about people's experience here. People are saying leave a message and expect her to call you back.

I think you guys who are expecting a brawd to call you back after you leave a message are seriously fukking yourselves in the asses.

MAYBE chicks should call you back if you leave a message.

I'm not arguing about the ethics or utility of the issue.

I'm talking about the reality -- that they don't.

And if you say, "Well then she's not going to be lucky enough to go out with me if she can't call me back" -- if you say that go ahead and buy a carton of Kleenex -- 'cause you're gonna be needin' it, you know what I mean.

Hmmmmm...BGC I think that the real problem here is not whether girls will call back or not. That really depends on the type of girl.
Most educated, non barslut women will call you if they like you.

As far as my experience goes....How old are you?

I'm 25. I have always done just fine for myself leaving one message and that's it. I don't care what you say. A girl WILL call you back if she likes you, case closed. Why wouldn't she?
Now if you just want to get in and out(not looking for a relationship) then by all means make a jackasss of yourself. Who cares?
But if you like the girl and consider yourself an adult...then at least in my case I figure: if she can't even pick up the phone, then what will she be like down the line? That makes sense. So maybe its the kind of girls you date???? I think normal balanced women would call a guy back if they want to do something.

Personally, I wonder about your experience myself.

 

[BigBadJon]

I have to go with BGC ALL THE WAY on this one.

I could argue that it is fukked up that a woman would not return a message, but as in most other dealings with women IT DOES NO GOOD TO ***** AND COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING YOU DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE.

Pay phones and email...this is beginning to look like the way to go.

The logic (if that's what you call it) that women follow that dictates they should not return a guy's call until after they have established some sort of a deeper connection is the same logic that prevents women from pursuing men in the first place.

From now on I go for the email in addition to the #. Call her from a pay phone the first time. Leave no message. Try again from a payphone on the following day. After two or three tries no answer, leave an email.

The big question. What should the email say?

Something like, "[Her name], this is Jon, the handsome guy you met at such-n-such the other night. How was your sister's birthday party?(or any reference to something you talked about when you met her, basically a sentence or two of fluff talk/humor) You know, I enjoyed our conversation the other night and I'd like to talk again soon. When is the best time to call? (maybe mention something about being busy yourself when asking the best time to call)Any opinions/comments/suggestions?

I think MANY women would be skittish about returning a phone call, but an email should pretty much gaurantee some kind of response. It is just IMPERSONAL enough to allow them to break their rules of engagement. Sometimes the hardest part of dating is getting the ball rolling, at least it has been for me.

 

[Taz]

I don't see what harm is done by leaving your number on the message. Maybe she'll return it, maybe she won't. I agree with swigue, depends on the type of girl.

For instance, if you go back to my post, I mentioned this girl that wasn't home when we were supposed to have a date. Well, she called back yesterday to apologize! It turns out that she was talking to her mom and she doesn't have call waiting(which would explain why it didn't ring.) So I set up a get together for tommorow. She's hot and obviously not desperate, but perhaps a bit inexperienced.

I get the feeling that this other girl(with Caller ID) is trying to avoid me, since she was always "home" before and never is now. I'll try to call from a payphone, but what the hell should I say? I'll just have to improvise depending on her reaction.

BBJ, that e-mail looks awesome, man. I liked how you suggested to make yourself look busy. Maybe you can say "I have a really busy schedule this week due to (work/study sessions/love-making), but I can squeeze some time in on ____day. Will that be Ok?" If she's interested she will make time for that day.

Man, I need to start getting some e-mail addresses. It just never occurs to me when I'm macking, "what's your number?" just feels more natural.

 

[maranathaman]

Originally posted by Peak:
Maybe it's true that if a chick is keen on you that she won't call. This may be because she is shy, or whatever.

It seems that there are many of these girls about, as my recent experiencs have been showing.

For these girls I have a new tactic that has worked a charm!

It's a surprise tactic — marginal supplication at the beginning stages of getting to know one another.

Marginally supplicate with the phone calls and all her requests until the third date. Let her think she is running the show to an extent. Get her thinking that you might be easy to walk all over. Don't be a *****, but be very flexible to begin with, to a point where she gets used to the idea of you in her life. Then after the first kiss you turn into Mr Hardass who is always too busy to deal with her.

You see I think that we just have to break down that initial barrier that some women put up for us. I think it's the hardest part to get through cause she can easily blow you off if she is shy. Women make up all sorts of excuses, mainly cause they are scared and insecure about NEW things. Especially NEW MEN IN THEIR LIVES. Our imperfections cause these insecurities to grow. However, if we smooth the path initially then it's easy to turn the tables on her cause as DJ's we know how!

I want to be like a disease that they easily catch and initially has no symptoms. Then I want to turn into a red rash on their heart when I initiate challenge.

It did work like magic for me on a chick recently.

I think Peak has something here!

In my experience, mainly because I didn't know any other way to do it years ago, I would at first let a woman know I liked her, and I would persue her. This oftentimes got the ball rolling, but if I stayed in this mode, eventually the lady would start taking me for granted. So sometimes I would think, "you know what, I don't deserve this crap", and back off, then the lady would usually start chasing after me! So I think Peak may be right, that at first you need to go after her more than your typical DJ instincts and knowledge tells you to, then once she gets used to your attention, back off somewhat so she doesn't take you for granted.
~Andy

 

[ChrisFl]

> And also, Chris, this brawd that called you back right away, and other guys who have had the same thing happen.
Did you bone them?

Not yet. I thought a restaurant was a tacky place to do that.

This is not someone I'm looking to bang once & then not see again.

Maybe I'm just doing a better job of qualifying the women whose numbers I get. I don't have 1000 numbers, just a couple of good ones.

 

[BGC]

Chris,

"Your" girl calls you back? I don't mean to sound hostile in tone, but what makes her "your girl?" How far have you got sexually with her? The way you avoided the question of whether you've had sex with her, by saying a restaurant wouldn't have been an appropriate place to bang her (who said it would have?), seems to me you're a little uneasy about you and her sexually. What I'm saying is, if there is a girl who is into you sexually -- who wants your cok in her puss -- she just won't be calling you back.

SOME will. O.K. There are exceptions to every rule. But 90% of brawds won't -- and rightly so.

THE GUY DOES THE CHASING.

Swigue, my experience is that I'm a late bloomer. I didn't have sex until kind of late, out of high school, but now I do extremely well with women. I'm sitting on like seven or eight numbers now. All of this is because the last four months I have COMPULSIVELY made myself approach women. Everywhere. And I've learned a hell of a lot. And I think this is the only way to learn. Just doing it yourself.

BBJ, yeah, I think you're right. The pay phone and e-mail is a way to go.

BBJ, did you read the Sisonphy piece? See what he does w/r/t e-mail?

I think maybe e-mailing a chick first would be best. Then once she responds, ask her when a good time to call is.

Now I mentioned I was sitting on two numbers, right?

Well the story is, last Monday, I called them. No one home at either, so I left a brief message. NOT GIVING MY NUMBER, NOT ASKING THEM TO CALL!

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I'm tired of the discussion of whether you should ask a girl to call you. Personally, I will never do it. If you guys want to, fine. Whatever. I don't care. I hope you have good fortune doing so.

Anyways, I tried both of them back on Thursday, neither were home, I left no message.

Now yesterday, Tuesday, I e-mailed one of them. Remember, eight days ago I left a very brief message for her (this coming eight days after we first met).

Here is our e-mail exchange.

This first message is my reply to her reply.


***


Beverages and stimulating conversation it will be. (You know you turned 'beverage' into 'beverages,' but since I start the day with a bowl of Wheaties and a twelve-pack of Rolling Rock, this is quite fine by me.)

When's a good time to reach you at home?

---


>From: "---" <--->
>Reply-To: <---->
>To: "----" <----->
>Subject: RE: hey
>Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:34:01 -0800
>
>So, are you the "--- from ------in's" who called me?!? Hmmm...sure, I could
>go for beverages and stimulating conversation! When and where?
>
>------
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: --- [mailto:------@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:31 PM
>To: ----@----t.com
>Subject: hey
>
>nice meeting you the other night. tried calling last week -- missed you.
>what's your schedule like this week? how'd you like to meet up for a
>beverage and some stimulating conversation? talk to me.
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>


Now the other brawd whose e-mail I don't have.

I called her last night -- and there was a new message. At the end of the message, she left another number where she could be reached. She's into me big time!

And see, that's the thing. If a chick has interest level of 51% or more, then the longer you and she go without connecting with each other after first meeting, THE MORE SHE WANTS YOU TO CALL, THE MORE SHE WANTS TO GO OUT WITH YOU, THE MORE SHE WANTS TO YANK HER PANITES OFF AND ORDER YOU TO GIVE IT TO HER!!!

But if she doesn't have interest level at or above 51%, then if you wait a long time and then call she will ONLY BE ANNOYED BECAUSE SHE WILL HAVE BEEN RELIEVED THAT YOU'D FORGOTTEN ABOUT HER BUT NOW YOU'RE CALLING!


Guys, here are two possible ways of getting the first date.

I've given this some thought.

First, you ALWAYS get the home # and an e-mail.


Now, plan #1.

Eight days after you meet her, you call her from a pay phone.

If she doesn't answer and you get a machine, you DO LEAVE A MESSAGE. You say, "Hey, ---, this is ---- from -----. Seems I missed you tonight, but I'll try again another time. Bye bye."


Then NINE DAYS later, you e-mail her.

Now it's been 17 days since you met. If she initially had interest level at or above 51%, THEN IT WILL BE MUCH HIGHER NOW!

And she will be DELIGHTED TO GET AN E-MAIL FROM YOU. ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED.

And she will respond immediately. (Much like this brawd did to me. And btw, this brawd is hot and she's also in her mid 40s, and I'm in my mid to early 20s!)

Plan #2.

Four or five days after you meet her, you drop her an e-mail. I think THE FOLLOWING LETTER IS THE BEST THING TO SEND TO HER. I DIDN'T WRITE IT. I GOT IT FROM SISONPHY. And I used it nearly word for word. And it worked!

nice meeting you the other night. what's your schedule like this week? how'd you like to meet up for a drink and some stimulating conversation. talk to me.

and that's it.

BBJ, I think we're both on the right track with e-mailing the brawds. The only thing I might say is that maybe your e-mail is even a little long, maybe you ought to forget about the sister stuff, and enjoying the conversation with her, etc. Just like BLAMM! a few words, and that's it.

Anyways, that's what I'm going to do from now. Later, bros.


------------------
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing."

--George Bernard Shaw

[This message has been edited by BGC (edited 02-07-2001).]

 

[Don Juanita]

OH NO!!!!

I am the farthest thing from a b*tch, and I believe that BCG Expressed that the best, although he probably did not intend to.

I am very mature in everyway possible. There is no game tactic in not calling a man back. If I am the object of his desire, then I WILL be obtained by him. He just has to have the MATURITY that I want and try calling me again.

A man that wouldn't even leave me a message or try calling me, is very immature in my eyes and he is NOT what I want.

Yes, let me tell you something else that I do so I can REALLY let you know what I'm all about. (I'm pretty strict)

I do have a caller ID. And if I notice a certain number quite a few times on my caller ID, but no messages, I"m gonna answer the phone the next time I see that number. If it's a guy who wanted to take me out, I"m not gonna date him. How could he have called me more then three times and not even left a message if he couldn't reach me? THAT'S IMMATURE.

Juanita

 

[BigBadJon]

BGC, email it is!

Fukk all this phone tag B.S. My cell phone is my only line, and I am self employed so I can often be reached. If I were in the 95%(actual figure) of the population that still uses a landline as a primary means of communication, I would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get ahold of.

Email is cool. Everyone has it. You can sound SMOOTH with only a few well chosen words. Everyone LOVES to get an email from someone they know, much like getting a surprise letter or card in the mail. You can send one at ANY time of the day and not risk disturbing anyone. And best of all, chicks don't seem to have the hangup(no pun intended) with email that they do with an answering machine.

In fact, I may even skip the first/second/third phone calls that always seem to be a waste of time and go straight to the email, THEN arrange the phone call.

Juanita, for the life of me I can't figure out why you would not return a guys call, but I have neither the time nor the patience to contemplate the "why" aspect of this. Accepting it as a FACT OF LIFE is much easier and less confusing.

All of you guys that only leave one message and expect her to return your call are doing nothing but reducing your odds of making a successful connection. If I obtain seven numbers, it would be nice to average three good ones rather that ONE out of what I have to work with. It only makes sense. You will have to pull three times the amount of numbers to generate the same results playing it your way. Sad, but that's the way things are.

 

[BigBadJon]

Sorry, I was reading over this thread again and couldn't resist responding directly. I know I said I didn't want to get into the mechanics of this, but.....

Originally posted by Don Juanita:
A man that wouldn't even leave me a message or try calling me, is very immature in my eyes and he is NOT what I want.

This is why we are talking about using a PAYPHONE!!! You may SUSPECT you know who keeps calling from different locations, but you don't know for sure and your curiousity will get the best of you!!!

Lemme ask you this. How would you view a guy that tried calling you three or four times without getting ahold of you, each time leaving a message? Desperate? Needy? Weak?

Honestly, as fast as life moves in todays world, how do you expect this to go down?

Yes, let me tell you something else that I do so I can REALLY let you know what I'm all about. (I'm pretty strict)I do have a caller ID. And if I notice a certain number quite a few times on my caller ID, but no messages, I"m gonna answer the phone the next time I see that number. If it's a guy who wanted to take me out, I"m not gonna date him.

You are a female and as such are entitled to have numerous guidlines, quirks, and pet peeves, so this comes as no shock to me. You seem like a girl that has her sh1t together a little more than the average chickie, so I would venture to guess that most others out there may even be more strict than you are regarding this subject.

I have recently been a victim of some of these guidlines, quirks, and pet peeves myself. I am learning......

How could he have called me more then three times and not even left a message if he couldn't reach me? THAT'S IMMATURE.

Juanita

Let me get this straight. You want a guy to call and leave a message that you don't intend to return?

We meet, you like me, give me your #, and I try calling you. If I leave a message and ask you to call me back, you won't return my call. What am I supposed to do?

If I leave a message saying I will call at another time, and I can't get ahold of you AGAIN, I begin to look and feel like a LOSER. Each subsequent call makes it worse. What am I supposed to do?

If I call several times and leave no message, you won't date me because I'm IMMATURE. What am I supposed to do?

If I have this correct, then what you are telling me is that my chances of getting with you, (no matter how wonderful I think you are or vice versa) are dependent upon one of two things. Either being LUCKY enought to catch you WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY HOME ON THE FIRST OR SECOND CALL -Or- ME FINDING A WAY TO CIRCUMVENT THE ROADBLOCKS YOU BUILD THAT SEVERELY INHIBIT MY CHANCES OF CONNECTING WITH A POTENTIALLY BEAUTIFUL PERSON.

I'm not a gambling man, so I'll be using a payphone and email rather than trying to get LUCKY.

 

[swigue]

Originally posted by BGC:
Chris,

"she just won't be calling you back.

SOME will. O.K. There are exceptions to every rule. But 90% of brawds won't -- and rightly so.

THE GUY DOES THE CHASING.

I thought this was the Don Juan site....Isn't chasing what guys USUALLY do and what this place is all about not doing?!? AM I completely insane?

Whatever BGC, We can agree to disagree. I guess.... but I guarantee I won't have to be running home to my wife every 30 seconds in 20 years

 

[ChrisFl]

> The way you avoided the question of whether you've had sex with her, by saying a restaurant wouldn't have been an appropriate place to bang her ...

I didn't avoid the question: We haven't had sex with each other. Is that clear enough? We had a lunch date, after which she had to drive 3 hrs to go to a wedding, & then flew out of state to visit friends the next day (without returning home). She won't be back til this weekend. When & where would we have had sex? Should I have followed her to the wedding & banged her at the reception? Or found out what flight she was on so that we could join the Mile High Club?

Is it OK to wait until we're together & not in a public place before we do the nasty?

And how do you manage to bang so many women, if you can't get them to return your phone calls? Sounds a little fishy to me.

 

[ChrisFl]

> Let me get this straight. You want a guy to call and leave a message that you don't intend to return?

You said exactly what I was thinking, Jon. It made no sense, but then coming from a female, what should we expect?

 

[BGC]

Originally posted by ChrisFl:
>
When & where would we have had sex?


Dude, chill.

You know where people have sex. They have sex at their homes. The guy invites the woman in, or the woman invites the guy in.

When you ask whether you should have banged her in the restaruant, that IS avoiding the question.

When two people want to have sex, they end up at one of their places. OK?

Dude, I wish you the best of fortune. I want you to drill this brawd.

But I think you might be investing too much energy and interest in this one girl. I think this because you have got extremely defensive about it.



And how do you manage to bang so many women, if you can't get them to return your phone calls? Sounds a little fishy to me.

First, I haven't banged that many brawds. Under five actually.

In the last three months I have PULLED probably thirty numbers.

Two of these led to sexual relations, as our erstwhile president would put it -- I had intercourse with one, and the other gave me dome.

Once I'm drilling a brawd, then I expect her to return my calls -- and she does.

But before this point, I have been fortunate in calling and having them answer.

But I realize sometimes you can't always reach them by phone.

Thus this thread.

And I am now convinced that e-mail is the way to go.

------------------
"A life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing."

--George Bernard Shaw

[This message has been edited by BGC (edited 02-08-2001).]

 

[Survivor]

All of you are really complicating this.

In my opinion, Caller ID is completely irrelevant.

INTERESTED OR NOT INTERESTED. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

If I call a few times and she doesn't pick up, she's NOT INTERESTED. I move on. I wouldn't even degrade myself by leaving a message. If she was interested WHEN SHE MET ME, she'll check the # on ID and call me back.

I don't care whether or not her reasons for not contacting me were legitimate.

I disagree with most of these opinions.

Jaunita, Yes, men should do the chasing. But they shouldn't waste time chasing women that are PURPOSELY UNAVAILABLE. I betcha if you found a guy you were physically attracted to your "Rules" would go completely out the window.

Like I said, INTERESTED OR NOT INTERESTED.

BGC and BigBadJon, How long will it be before you run out of quarters to use those payphones? It just sounds like way too much deception just to get someone to go out on a date with you. I'm 25 and I'm sick of email and telephones. I want dates. You hear me? DATES!

If she doesn't return your calls, she's not interested.

If she doesn't pick up the phone, she's not interested.

Plain and simple.

If woman has any maturity to her, I shouldn't need a Phd in counterintelligence just to get her on the phone.

Remember, a woman labels you the FIRST time she SEES YOU IN PERSON! Its the FIRST IMPRESSION that gets you the date, not how or when you call her back.

The time WASTED playing *69 games, caller id, and *67 crap could be spent improving your appearance, social skills, financial situation, and in case you forgot...ACTUALLY GOING OUT ON DATES!!

My experience has been that when there is MUTUAL INTEREST her "rules" go out the window and the both of you will make an effort to make time for each other....on real dates.

Things would be simpler and your phone bill will be alot lower.

[This message has been edited by Survivor (edited 02-09-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Survivor (edited 02-09-2001).]

 

[swigue]

A-men!!!
Thanks Survivor!
Finally someone who agrees with me!!

 

[ChrisFl]

> But I think you might be investing too much energy and interest in this one girl.

I don't have that much invested. One lunch. Maybe you're looking for one-night stands- that's really not my aim (although I'm not opposed to the idea

). And I have a date with another one lined up in a few days. I still have a job, too.

 

[BigBadJon]

Originally posted by Survivor:
If I call a few times and she doesn't pick up, she's NOT INTERESTED. I move on. I wouldn't even degrade myself by leaving a message.If she was interested WHEN SHE MET ME, she'll check the # on ID and call me back.

You know why I like BGC? Because he obviously does field research. He has realized that right or wrong, ridiculous or not, there are BARRIERS that often prevent two people from getting together. The more we understand these obstacles and work to overcome them, the better off we will be.

Survivor, you really need to reread your post, because I think you are missing some very important details.

You said if you call a few times and she doesn't pick up, she isn't interested. People have LIVES, myself included. I don't wait by the phone for ANYONE. Often I don't get in until after 10 p.m. Most people have the decency not to call that late until they know someone better. If I called a chick three times and as BAD LUCK would have it she isn't around, that has nothing to do with her interest level. That has to do with the rapid pace of life, and isn't something that should be an obstacle, but it is.

You said if she were interested when she met you, she would see your name on caller ID and call you back. I would go as far as to say that 99.9999999% or ALL WOMEN would NEVER call back. The minute percentage that WOULD, I would have reservations about dating. I would see her as desperate. This also has very little to do with interest level. It has to do with women not wanting to be labeled as desperate. You can't put the ball in her court this early in the relationship.

I am glad Juanita posted her replies on this thread cause it clearly shows how women think. SHE IS NOT THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, HER ATTITUDE IS LIKELY TYPICAL OF MOST GIRLS. I don't think I have ever said this to anyone on here, but you guys need to wake up! You are welcome to do things your own way, but man, your average number/date ratio is gonna be horrible!

Remember, I am not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. We can choose to live with it and find ways to improve our odds, or delude ourselves into thinking that one day things will become "as they should be".

Jaunita, Yes, men should do the chasing. But they shouldn't waste time chasing women that are PURPOSELY UNAVAILABLE.

I think you are confusing social stigma and the pace of life with low interest. Chances are if you meet someone you will not be able to establish a strong enough rapport with them to make them wait around by the phone for your call, or to break the perceived proper social protocol and call you back off of caller ID. If you DO leave a message, asking her to call you, most won't no matter how much they are into you. You can't put the ball in their court that early!

Like I said, INTERESTED OR NOT INTERESTED.

Man, I WISH it were that cut and dried. Like I said, you are counting on women to break perceived social protocol. You're betting with a losing hand.

BGC and BigBadJon, How long will it be before you run out of quarters to use those payphones? It just sounds like way too much deception just to get someone to go out on a date with you. I'm 25 and I'm sick of email and telephones. I want dates. You hear me? DATES!

This isn't deception at all. Not any more so than cutting a date short after an hour because you are "busy", even when you only intend to go home and watch Leave it to ****** reruns and eat cheez puffs sitting around in your boxer shorts. I didn't create the game, I just find my own way to play it to get what I want from it. BTW....I can afford a few quarter calls.

If woman has any maturity to her, I shouldn't need a Phd in counterintelligence just to get her on the phone.

You have a point. But unless you are living in the rain forests of South America, you must understand that people aren't always going to be around to take your call.

Remember, a woman labels you the FIRST time she SEES YOU IN PERSON! Its the FIRST IMPRESSION that gets you the date, not how or when you call her back.

You've been around this site for awhile Survivor, I thought you knew better! Now you're talking like it's all over once you get the #, and you can let your guard down. Talking to her on the phone in the initial stages of a relationship is still a first impression. The first couple of dates are still a first impression. You will be scrutinized and sized up by her LONG after your initial meeting.