Buying a Woman a Drink as an Approach to Building Confidence

[Desdinova]

Everyone seems to be focusing on the "buying a woman a drink" and ignoring the "building confidence."

Buying a drink is a standard, easy opener. That is why so many guys use it. They don't have to think or do any work to buy a woman a drink. Although it may work to start a conversation, it doesn't work to attract a woman.

If you wanna build confidence, don't look for a built in opener. Try approaching a woman empty handed and use whatever you have to initiate conversation.

 

[Mister Big]

OK. In this situation, its not an opener for anyone but yourself: an icebreaker for your game. But I agree with what you've said if you use buying a drink to open a conversation. I don't do this.

 

[Mister Big]

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I understand your rationale for confidence building on your own part when buying a drink, but the problem with it isn't your own confidence, rather it's the attractive woman's perception of it. All the confidence in the world that you have wont change her perception of getting a drink for free from you when she's attractive enough to have a lot of guys do the same thing and she becomes satiated by (and come to expect) this behavior from men.

If it helps you to initiate and you have the looks to back it up for IL then I can see it working, but I wonder if it's not more hindering to your sarging and closing.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

"Easy opener","standard", "game." All of these things seem to be tricks and aren't authentic to the DJ persona. These things are just illusions, they do nothing to enhance the DJ himself. They are just tricks used to deflect a guys shortcomings.

Here's a question, what would you do if you weren't in a bar or club? What if you were waiting on a train or a bus? What would be your easy opener? What would give you confidence in your game? What is the standard for this type of situation? A skilled DJ would not have these problems, he would not need props or psychological jolts of confidence, he would just approach; simple as that.

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
I understand your rationale for confidence building on your own part when buying a drink, but the problem with it isn't your own confidence, rather it's the attractive woman's perception of it.

I write the woman I buy the initial drink off as just a subject in this experiment. She's a consumable of the game. I don't even worry about her perception or even if I ever talk to her. Its this cold and calculated decision that transforms me and gives my game edge and creates a positive vibe. Let's be honest, to work a room and conduct several successful cold approaches requires ice in your veins. I need some help sometimes.

Remember, I usually only use this when I am in a new place with unknown expectations of the venue. Eventually, I hope to have the confidence to never need to play a game like this to put me into character quickly. Until then, tricks help.

 

[Mister Big]

I just realized I do this is to save time and avoid catching too much of a buzz before I start approaching. Within 15 minutes of entering, I am in the zone. Approaches are easier from that place in your mind. In time, I hope to be able to be in the zone whenever I want to be.

Its tough when you are with a woman that you've already closed or are dating because you don't want to convey the same impression as when you were approaching her. Getting out of character and balancing both is a real challenge for me. The "bar owner" character gets the girls, but he doesn't necessarily keep them.

I am very interested in other opinions of managing the alter-ego aspect of the entire DJ experience.

 

[Mister Big]

I just realized I do this is to save time and avoid catching too much of a buzz before I start approaching. Within 15 minutes of entering, I am in the zone. Approaches are easier from that place in your mind. In time, I hope to be able to be in the zone whenever I want to be.

Its tough when you are with a woman that you've already closed or are dating because you don't want to convey the same impression as when you were approaching her. Getting out of character and balancing both is a real challenge for me. The "bar owner" character gets the girls, but he doesn't necessarily keep them.

I am very interested in other opinions of managing the alter-ego aspect during their DJ development. I like a lot of the elements of the old "AFC version" of me that I'd like to maintain as long as it doesn't effect my game.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Mister Big
...I am very interested in other opinions of managing the alter-ego aspect of the entire DJ experience.

First stop believing that being a DJ is a part time job, you are either a DJ or your aren't. Once you need to become some alter-ego, your success rate will be as 'on and off' as your persona.

Psychologically, there's been a ton of posts in the forum out what books people have read to change their inner perception, their persona. It's included everything from works by Tony Robbins to books specifically about Psycho-Cybergenics or Neuro Linguistic Programming.

The difference with these theories is that they are not based on will power (which is lame in itself). Will power is part time, it's only as good as your will. These theories focus on changing your actual persona, not turning it on or off by faking it.

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
"Easy opener","standard", "game." All of these things seem to be tricks and aren't authentic to the DJ persona. These things are just illusions, they do nothing to enhance the DJ himself. They are just tricks used to deflect a guys shortcomings.

Here's a question, what would you do if you weren't in a bar or club?

I've got a lot to learn. I am easing into this slowly, and things are going pretty well. I really want to feel more comfortable with redefining myself. I am a lot happier in my life, so this path is the way for me. I also want to feel more confident about doing cold approaches and working different venues. I recognize I should do some more research and build a better foundation. I think a boot camp experience would be a pretty organized exercise. In the beginning, I can't imagine anyone who could commit to the DJ approach without some growing pains in dealing with the shadows of their former self.

 

[Desdinova]

Its tough when you are with a woman that you've already closed or are dating because you don't want to convey the same impression as when you were approaching her.

Why not? If you're naturally good at talking to strangers and getting them interested in you, why would you want to change that after you've made that first contact? I still tease my woman, and I've been with her for 2 1/2 years. I'm still a bit of an arrogant jerk with her, and she loves it. I've taken what I've learned here and made it part of my personality. It was MY personality that initially attracted her to me. Why would I want to change that?

Women b1tch that their men become dull and boring. Why do you think that is? It's because the men forget what initially attracted the woman in the first place. The men sign up for the "Pvssy-whipped 101" class after they attract a woman.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Mister Big
...I can't imagine anyone who could commit to the DJ approach without some growing pains in dealing with the shadows of their former self.

Unfortunately, most guys do not analyze where they are now nor how they became the way that they are. They have a ton of beliefs that foster AFC behavior, it's their lifestyle.

The problem is that they try to overlay their AFC tendencies with DJ skills and that dichotomy cancels each out. The only way that I have found that any of these DJ skills work consistently is when a guy decides to change his lifestyle and his perception of himself and the world. With that, he will have congruence (square peg, square hole). Without it, he is limited to whatever luck he has faking DJism.

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Desdinova
I still tease my woman, and I've been with her for 2 1/2 years. I'm still a bit of an arrogant jerk with her, and she loves it. I've taken what I've learned here and made it part of my personality.

Did you ever find yourself slipping back and forth from DJ to AFC in the beginning of the process? When I get intimate with a woman, the old AFC me screams to come out. Its difficult to filter some of the stupid s*%t that wants to come out of my mouth.

Also, women constantly test you once you sleep with them. Its exhausting just remembering the basic information and not screwing up by thinking they are someone else. This is on top of being possessed at times by the ghost of your old AFC self. Quite a mind f%ck right now, but I'm sure it will pass as I improve.

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
The problem is that they try to overlay their AFC tendencies with DJ skills and that dichotomy cancels each out.

Man, you are deep and right on the money. This is my main challenge. I need to start out simple with a boot camp and build from there. Redefining all the AFC crap that remains along the way.

I thought just because I am now scoring with women using some basic approaches and techniques that I had this DJ thing down, but I was wrong. Like everything in life, its a science, takes real commitment, and most of us have to work hard at it to succeed. At times, posting on this board feels like psychotherapy because I am pretty raw emotionally and discover a lot of honest info about myself. Overall, the DJ me is such a positive departure. Everybody including me likes this guy a lot better.

I'll keep on keeping on.

P.S. I still like the "buy the hottie a drink then ignore her" game just because its fun and doesn't involve much effort.

 

[Desdinova]

Did you ever find yourself slipping back and forth from DJ to AFC in the beginning of the process?

Not as a whole. I found myself slipping on things that were basically techniques rather than things that I was adapting as part of my personality, such as confidence, aggresiveness, ****y/funny, kino, etc etc.

However, confidence is the root of many of the techniques on here. There is a confident way to ask a woman out, and there is a desperate / needy way to ask a woman out. Once you work on the root (confidence), things start coming naturally. You won't even worry about if you did something confidently or not. You'll feel your confidence, and won't have to be conscious of it.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Originally posted by Mister Big
Getting out of character and balancing both is a real challenge for me. The "bar owner" character gets the girls, but he doesn't necessarily keep them.

This is the rub; you shouldn't have to get into 'character' in the first place. Realizing the DJ mentality isn't acting, it's a lifestyle change. Too many guys I know have used DJ technique to get their 'dream girl' only to backslide into AFC behaviors once their in their dream relationship and have the woman walk all over them when they realize the guy wasn't what he sold himself as.

As far as perception is concerned, technique is a 2 sided affair. You cant accurately determine if a technique is effective without considering the woman's point of view of it. Her perception and response are half of the equation. You wouldn't keep making the same recipe if it tasted like sh!t the first 2 or 3 times.

 

[Mister Big]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
This is the rub; you shouldn't have to get into 'character' in the first place. Realizing the DJ mentality isn't acting, it's a lifestyle change.

I understand what you mean. I need to grow and start to live it, not just play the part. I don't want to come off conceited, but my problem is that I am pretty successful at even the limited level I am at now. It's tempting to take the easy path and only go half way.

Being swamped in dating and scoring is not really what I want. I want to wake up and feel good in my own skin. I want to go out, approach the big fish, and feel that no matter what happens that I have the right bait and hook and can hold on for however long as I choose. While I transform my lifestyle, being successful at the approaches seems like fun escapism, but there is a practical limit without further growth. I enjoy it, but the swings back to the old me are pretty conflicting right now. Time for me to get to work on myself. Thanks.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Mister Big
...
Being swamped in dating and scoring is not really what I want. I want to wake up and feel good in my own skin. ....

And that will be the core of your success.

 

[bobbob]

"I want to wake up and feel good in my own skin. ...."

Damn, you put that into words very well, that's exactly what I want as well, just to have that feeling that "I'm there."

Any book recommendations would be highly appreciated - I've checked out Psychocybernetcs and Success Through a Positive Mental Attitude so far. Both very good.

peace

 

[jack80202]

one very hot Georgia Peach I was dating can go into any bar and get free drinks.
If you buy her a drink it is approval seeking and lowers your
social status.

Remember she wants a big strong man.

GL