Break that ICE (Approach journal for Oct-Dec/07)

Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
Yeah, I still haven't given up. Every unique approach I'm going to be posting on here so people dont think I'm just giving up and thinking of getting with an escort based on my latest threads.

Now, I basically am at ground zero in terms of approaches to the point, that I'm just going to focus on breaking ice with random strangers. An ice-breaker/opener, or whatever and then immediate eject, the focus is on just getting attention and making them respond to something and post them on here.

Ok, let's start it off today. Each Ice-Breaker is going to be a report like this:

ICE : Situation. "Ice-breaking statement" then "response" by girl.

Let's start shall we:

Today:

ICE1: Saw a girl with a cat. I said "nice cat" after I noticed I had some non-verbal rapport and she replied and said "thank-you" with a smile.

ICE2: Saw another girl with a dog with headphones. More complicated because she had headphones. After the dog passed me I talked to her and she took off her headphones. "Hey, what bread is that dog?", she replied "It's a (forgot-the-name-and-dont-care) dog". I replied, "Oh, interesting." and continued my merry way.

MOOD: I was in a bit of a good mood and didn't mind opening up strangers just for fun and didn't see this as a 'tax' or 'chore' so I had a bit of fun with it and it came sort of natural.

I've noticed lots of non-verbal rapport since I got my haircut and getting some stares has helped me feel a bit better.
 

Real

Banned
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
196
Reaction score
2
THIS IS WHAT I LIKE TO SEE

Luke, just so you know, if you don't try, you will never learn. you CAN get really good with women, you just need to practice practice practice.....you can tell 100 chicks they got nice cats and dogs, and after that you'll get bored of saying nice cat, and you will naturally develop your social skills and you'll wanna say "so where are u from?" and "whats your name?"............and after enough approaches, you will just be smooth sailing, you will randomly walk up to a girl, talk for 5 minutes, and just let the words flow out of your mouth:

"aight baby i gotta get going, gimme your #, we'll chill sometime"

now the key to your development, is to just KEEP APPROACHING, and don't analyze anything, just let your experiences teach you - DO NOT ANALYZE ANYTHING

you see that analyzing for over a year has gotten you nowhere

now is the time to PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
 

Shivastorm_88

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
408
Reaction score
16
Luke I'm proud of you. Troll or not we shall never know, I'll assume you ain't one... Anyways, at least you gave up the idea of Internet dating and you are finally doing real time approaches! :rockon: that's a great first step!
 

rsaini

Don Juan
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles, CA
what you are doing these days are excellent warm-ups to make u feel good about yourself and get charged up for a real approach or game whatever u call it.:cool:
 

Maxtro

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
Messages
3,207
Reaction score
31
Location
Kalifornicatia
Good start Luke. I should really be doing cold approaches but I'm very lazy and a certified keyboard jockey :p I'm currently focusing on collecting lots and lots of information.

If you haven't already, go watch the Seduction School videos. They are really great material for beginners. It's only 5 parts and won't take a long time to watch.
 

DJ#7436

Don Juan
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
**TIP** Remember the name/breed of the dog next time. Its a converations piece. Show her you can listen, early in your game this may not be important. But as you advance it will.

NewB
 

dav22

Don Juan
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
103
Reaction score
0
Luke Skywalker said:
Saw another girl with a dog with headphones.
A dog with headphones.. now that's something to talk about.
 
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
Today was pretty much icey, was with my mom all of the time besides the office.

ICE1: Asked a cashier girl how her church was?
Her reply: It's a bomb. It's something that just keeps getting better and better.

She is really filled with the Spirit and she really seems passionate about her faith.

However there was a rapport-shift to the negative when I asked her for an explation regarding the airmiles card and she misunderstood the question and gave me an incorrect answer, and I corrected her again on what my question was in a bit of a serious tone....thought it dampened the interaction into a negative frame a bit, but hey.

Grocery store ICE-BRAINSTORMS:
- Can ask a grocery store attendent, or anyone for that matter where the location for a particular produce is, or make up something and ask if they sell it at this location.

Again, my mom being around me sort of cramps my style, so I give myself quadrupal points over any girl I break ICE around with her beside me or in the background since it requires a bit more nerve.

*************

BREAK THAT ICE!
BREAK THAT ICE!
BREAK THAT ICE!

Further ICE reports pending.
 
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
Well, I have been rather demotivated from pursuing any approaches.

Today, for example, I went downtown (for flying lessons - practise piloting a plane over the city and almost went too close to a tower), and missed a GO train (to return home) and had to kill about a few hours of time to wait for the next train - leaving lots of 'dead-time' to kill. I wanted to just explore the city on my own and just walk around. However, then the stress starts going on - you want to approach women, but you cant - I have had logical reasons not to do so (i.e. my purpose was to walk around and just enjoy myself not to approach random women, if I approach that's great, if not that's fine also, I'm not going to push myself to do anything I'm uncomfortable with doing - and secondly, I'm not all that familiar with the venue anyway).

But, that's not at issue - what is at issue is subjective feelings - such as, I feel that I carry a sad & depressed persona that would communicate neediness and desperation and would basically kill the premise of any approach with just the 'mood disposition'. I may as well just go up to people and say "I'm sad, can you give me a hug to make me feel better?" - if they do, "oh, great while we are at it, what's your name? Can I have your phone number?". I cant think of a more pathetic approach to be congruent to my mood perception.

I mean, when I see girls out there in groups with their friends or otherwise - and these are the youthful types I'm attracted to as well (I like ethnic girls, mixed, blacks, asians, indians, all shapes and sizes), and see them seemingly laughing and having a great time, I just dont see how I can fit into that particular type of scene and muster an approach - I'd likely have a depressed tone saying "Uh....do you have the time?".. or "uh, gee, you gals look familiar, I was just wondering, are you both sisters? where are you from? --- and end up going into some technical tangent.

That's where this approach stuff is at - it makes me think, if my purpose there hypothetically was primarily sarging, would the results have been different - maybe I would have pushed myself more since within my mind, if I give myself an out - especially for something like approaches - nothing is going to happen - but you cant help but think otherwise.

I know that I have read some other posters who have similar problems - I cant remember the posts, but I'll have to fish them later - that they have a 'sad disposition' most of the time and it's a bit of a sticking point in some way or another - and I've read from the book that if you are feeling gloomy then it's probably not the best time to sarge or do approaches. The thing is - it's more low energy than anything else, I had a great day, but it just seems there is this thing that just hits me sometimes and I cant put my finger on it - but I cant seem to shake it off when it does, suppose it's just that time of year that makes me feel more 'single and without a life' than usual.
 
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
Source: public.

I still have considerable difficulty on 'day-game' making an approach with anyone. Just yesterday, I was taking a small goals break (i.e. riding public transit for fun - notably a long-distance train), and there were plenty of strangers to approach and talk to, but here is what happened.

1) I attempted to talk to a stuttering girl, and we having some fluff talk, but when it came time to practise closing her, my line of conversation kept getting too personal (i.e. asking virtually where she is going, and volunteering what area I'm going to and back) and basically seized when it appeared she was getting uncomfortable. I thought - gee, I'm so sad, I cant even close a stuttering goal for practise.

Then I realize you have to play this numbers game. That is, if you are able reach a number of girls, even if the interaction does not go favourably, you dont take it personal because success can be broken down into numbers, but if you get discouraged and stop at any one number that doesn't work, you are out of the game. To win the numbers game, I have to continue approaching until I get a name and a number from somewhere.

2) It's difficult to approach people in a public train station or in that venue because I feel they are apprehensive of strangers, and the guard is especially higher in this environment. You could strike up a conversation, but it's unlikely to successfully close a stranger.

Enough for now. I'll continue to monitor this again should I continue going out on these personal escapades.
 

Snow Plowman

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
39
Location
NY
I like how you haven't given up. One thing I suggest is lower your criteria for success, that way you can get massive results. Like for the first week just focus on just starting the conversation. (Opening) Your Main focus is just trying out different types of openers and starting the conversation. Once you've started the conversation you can leave.

The 2nd week start offering value into your sets. Meaning right off the opener do something that will give her good emotions and make her day better (Cold read, C&F, tell her a story, etc) and then eject.

Do it to about 10 girls a day and watch at the end of the week you'll be so comfortable at opening and offering value. By time the 3rd week hits you'll be able to open and offer value. Which you'll now be able to stay in set for 1-5 minutes.

Chicks who you offer value too will love you for it because you made there day more fun. It's uncommon to have many bad sets, and most girls will appreciate you interacting with them, despite it being only 1-5 minutes.

Hope you try this because it would surely help you. Only reason I'm replying because your still sticking too it so atleast I know your willing to try.

Good luck and report updates

Edit - Also as far as what type of opener to use, just practice testing out different ones and find what you like best. Heck if your opening 10 girls a each day you go out to sarge for that week, you can atleast try 10 different openers. (Assuming you used 10 different things to start conversation)

Try indirect, direct, situational, compliments, screening, kino, non-verbal, and random openers. Just play around, have found, and test sh!t out. At the same time you'll be more and more comfortable starting conversations. Remember opening is basically saying anything to start a conversation. "hi" is an opener. Once you've started conversation your already off the opener.
 

swifTy

Don Juan
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
149
Reaction score
2
Luke, you crack me up man. the way you phrase things is killa!!

Luke Skywalker said:
Saw another girl with a dog with headphones. More complicated because she had headphones
haa haa haa.

Luke Skywalker said:
She is really filled with the Spirit and she really seems passionate about her faith.
she is really filled with the spirit this one. i like. i like.

Luke Skywalker said:
I mean, when I see girls out there in groups with their friends or otherwise - and these are the youthful types I'm attracted to as well (I like ethnic girls, mixed, blacks, asians, indians, all shapes and sizes
i like the youthful types. yes the youthful types. inside my pants movement.


aww gosh, i really do think your a funny man, and im not taking the piss. Why dont you just be funny with these girls. you could so do it. when girls start laughing at your jokes the confidence it can boost. you also must be a hell of a deep thinker/analyser. your probably overdoing it tho man. my advice would be to get some friends that are good with women. OR watch guys that are good with women. look at what they do, learn, and incorporate into your game. approaching girls on a train etc is hard for anyone. in fact being good with girls is hard full stop. just try to get A girl and work your way up. get some friends. get a social circle. good luck my man.
 
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
Ok, some time to catch my breath - I've been analyzing Snow_Plowman's suggestion and have read some openers from other threads on this site, and most particularly have read this link here....

http://www.magicbulletsbook.com/ebook/MagicBulletsV103preview2.pdf

This e-book I found for free on yahoo discusses different openers and the risk-reward ratios for each one. It suggests that opinion openers are the best ones to utilize since you are not actually expressing interest and are just talking.

I'm going to try different types anyway because I have to relize, the worst case scenerio in trying out openers is nothing - I'm not going to 'lose myself' or anything and will still be me after I try.

No opportunity yet to go out and try this stuff out yet - but still have until December to clear this - I want to get this approach and opening thing fixed up - and intend to have at least 140 approaches before December is up -
(i.e. 10 girls per day per week = 70 girls). Just fixing a venue to do this, mall, bookstore, etc.... and it's just putting myself there to try it out.
 

Bible_Belt

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,045
Reaction score
5,678
Age
48
Location
midwestern cow field 40
The best risk-reward is to not expect anything other than getting a laugh at the girl's expense. Then even rejection becomes a victory.
 
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
Today I went downtown to flight school, and had some dead time around to approach girls if I wanted to, but just couldn't do it, even functional approaches where I'm asking directions or time could not be done.

Basically what's going through my head is that I have to be genuine if I'm doing an approach and people are going to see right through me that I'm a dork and it doesn't feel like a real ballsy like approach. I feel if I start a convo with an attractive girl and bail out that I've somehow lost something and think I have to go all the way or none at all because it feels like I'm pvssy footing around, and as a result, nothing happens. This just have me feeling frustrated and I think maybe I should have some dedicated time to do these approaches or something - but even then making one single approach seems very difficult.

Venue was mainly Union Station or in public transit. May not be the best place to pick up girls since they are usually preoccupied obviously and moving most of the time.

Oh well, guess try again next time.
 

drak_ool

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
764
Reaction score
20
luke, you need to break down your "game" into smaller steps. If you view it as an all-or-nothing deal, then you step up the pressure on yourself and lowere the likeness that you will actually approach. It s like a begginner baseball player who doesn't know how to hit, yet he wants to score a home run. Or a begginner golfer who doesn't have the right swing down, yet he only tries to go for a hole-in-one.

so next time you want to approach, don't think about the f-close, k-close, #-close or even getting her name. All those things in fact are not completly under your power. Focus on the one thing that is under your power: starting an interaction with her. You are the only one in control over that. So don't worry about what kind of opener you re gonna use, how she might react to it, how to transition, etc... Just go out there and throw the ball in her court and see what happens.

the big positive behind having this attitude towards approaching is that you win no matter what. Even if you get rejected harshly (which will almost never happen) you ve scored a victory over your AA. After 20, 30, 50, 100 cold approaches, your AA will vanish. Then, you can start focusing on the other steps, like finding out her name, getting her number and so on.

remember REJECTION IS BETTER THAN REGRET
 
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
11
I've been listening to an mp3 from approachanxiety.com called "Acclimate yourself" and this has had useful suggestions to looking at the possible reasons I may be afraid of approaching as a function of particular phobias in relationships.

In analysis of everything I have noticed the following things about myself in past 'relationships/friendships/dating interactions' that would reveal the presence of a few inner game issues - I'll be going over them and trying to discuss how this hinders my approaches:

1) Trust / Confidence issues (discovered on an oneitis crush last year)
- Everything is usually pretty much scripted, not much room for real spontenuity and must be rigid in performance as though I was walking on a tight-rope and could fall a thousand feet down if I lose my balance.
- Would not feel comfortable staying an extended time together with a girl for fear of 'breaking-down' socially and not knowing what to do, yet paradoxically, on the same token, would feel I'm missing out on having the fun companionship of a woman being with me if I dont spend an extended time together with a girl.
- Would not feel that I measure up or am good enough.

How this relates to approaches: I feel like I'm walking on a tight-rope if I try an approach, and if I make any mistake, that I'm going to fall down or something. If the girl does take me on, suppose I get stuck and do not know what to say and get stuck there fumbling for an excuse to keep the conversation going - but if I dont get anywhere with the girl then I'll feel aware of my loss as another guy will either have her if I do not succeed and I may feel I've missed someone. Self-esteem is usually on the low end with approaches since I dont view myself as a relaxed, cool, humorous confident guy and would probably be like a stiff and would be blown out with the competition.

Confidence issues are often related to trust issues - for example, if you do not trust a normal response from the person you are approaching, and think she's going to freak out, blow the police whistle, or just stare at you rather than connect with what you are trying to do, that sort of hampers things.


2) Will get very angry at someone who is manipulative with me or plays games with me. Will not likely get angry at someone who just ignores me or rejects me outright, but may place allot of stock on someone who actually takes me on and either put them on a pedistle or have unreasonable expectations, which may make me more vulnerable or suspecptible to game playing.

Relation with approaches: This will just show off in my eyes and vibe the wrong way when I'm doing these approaches. I'm always concerned with how I'm vibing or coming across - and feel I have this chronic state of sadness and desperation of 'looking for a friend' look in my face which I think if hurting my approach game up - it is sort of this 'pity-me, be my friend', look that I'm afraid of projecting, but feel it gets subconciously projected and feel like sitting duck so to speak with extreme emotions that could go very high or low like a drug depending on how the person I'm approaching responds.


3) Emotionally unavailable. Relationship this year came apart since I was virtually unavailable emotionally, despite wanting to be in a relationship, not fully 100% attracted to the girl and it came apart.

Relation to approaches: If I'm not 100% attracted to the girl I'm approaching and want to do a practise run, then I'm not going to be emotionally available and the approach may come across wierd. My mind is usually somewhere else and I'm not living in the moment - so in a sence everything is seen like an abstraction as opposed to reality - but I cant get out of the abstraction, and thus cant make that jump to feel like I'm really there and tend to stay in my shell. If I have a crush-like attraction, only then my mind may be slightly more focused on her and trying to make a connection.

Thus, I'm worried I may give a zombie like reaction or just go stiff just after an approach for someone I'm not interested in, or just generally have a low energy level.

4) Inadequacy issues -- from first oneieits -

Approach relations: Do not feel like I'm a man, but rather a boy in a man's body, or do not feel like I'm a normal type of guy that has a normal trajectory of romantic/sexual experience that most people have had in their late teens or twenties but tend to feel like a teenager inside an adult body or feel like some sort of social-misfit or freak and therefore unworthy to make an approach compared to a normal guy.


5) SAVED BY THE BELL. Have cancelled dates when there is an exotic and anamolous excuse for aborting - subconciously produced excuses that are deceptively convincing (i.e. such as cell phone breaking down, or a weather warning (but it's for later), parents going to an anniversary.

Feel this is some how related to the living environment and way I'm brought up to 'stay away from trouble' so to speak and mind my own business.

Approach relations: "Saved by the Bell, I dont have to approach"

Like in recess, when the bell rings when you were next to deliver that speech or presentation and everyone has to leave, sort of the same effect here.

Approaches entail risks - you are breaking the social norm of the task-related north american society - the easy route is of course, not to approach and just mind your own business because you dont know what trouble can await. Naturally the tendency will be to look for a good excuse not to approach where I wont feel bad or that I'm failing myself if I dont approach. Sometimes risks are necessary and good because they could lead to a higher reward pay-off - behaviour to date seems to be no risk or low risk, leading to likely no pay-off at all.

I'm open to suggestions to dealing with the above inner game issues as solving any one of them could lead to better approach performance and less hesitation and analysis.

*******************

This is inner-game reference on approaches for file, but in no way constitutes an excuse for not following through to continue on approaches.

Small incremental steps will be taken next week - for example, I dont go out much to meet girls, so next week, I may just go to different parts of my local area to hang-out by myself for about a half hour or hour -- and next Saturday, meet that girl again that works at the weight loss clinc that I'm part of - rather than looking for excuses not to do so.

Then some low-risk functinonal openers (time, directions, business card introduction (business approach style) may be done for up to 20 girls, which about half may be older (only limitation) lonely-looking women before doing the other 50 (70 girls) for opener practise.


****************
a)
People will not get angry or upset at me if I just do an approach or it shouldn't end badly, but if I berate them for something, they probably would, but this wont happen doing a simple approach since it's not at that level. Since I dont accuse or berate girls on approaching, there should be no problems.

b)
Low energy level, tired, etc... need way to increase this energy level, but cant seem to do it, unsure of cause of chronic lethargic low energy level. Energy level will likely go up with a few approaches are done anyway - would have to have a conversation with a few people first, including guys, to warm up. Since I dont talk much at all to anyone or dont have friends or relatives in real life to have conversations with in a day then this could be a focal point of another problem that has to be handled in some way. Since most interactions with people are for a purpose or are essentially task-orientated - approaches would be seen in the same way that unless it fits a practical role of some task I would feel very uncomfortable with it.

Recommendation to myself: To halt public approaches and focus on either joining small groups where I can interact with the members or look for a part-time job where I would have more opportunities just to talk to people in some way - where conversing with people is essential - such as a waiter. However, I've found a solution to this - I'll just be giving out business cards or asking for directions when I'll be doing the next 20 or so approaches which would give it a functional purpose that goes away from 'is she going to like me or reject me'.
 
Last edited:

AFC Savior

Banned
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
354
Reaction score
3
stop analyzing you fool

you're ice has only grown frozen, definitely not broken
 
Top