Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Real Life Applications?

[Methuselah]

BJJ is highly effective in streetfighting as well, considering most people who fight don't really know how to, and 6/10 times the fight turns into a grappling contest which is likely to head to the ground. I am certainly not the best in BJJ, I have some training, but I've sparred some really good BJJ guys and I've never felt so powerless in my life, and I'm not pushover. People who REALLY know what they are doing can have you disabled and helpless in a matter of seconds.

 

[6-heads lewis]

Your right its not street fighting but it is the closest thing to a streetfight. Closer than boxing or any other sport. Now do you mean to tell me that s streetfighter could take on randy coutoure or matt hughes, or st pierre. I don't care how crazy he is or what kind of mentality he has. You must be smoking some good stuff if you think that.

I have been in many streetfights and I have learned more in bjj training than I have in any streetfight.

BTW I don't receommend fighting if your outnumbered or if someone has a gun, bjj or anything else will not work.

Nobody here will ever reach the level of any world-class fighter. Those guys are extremely rare, and are near-experts and everything. Someone who tries to emulate them will spend a lot of time learn several martial arts, they will be decent at all, but not deadly with either.

In a bar, guy A is below-average in BJJ, wrestling, kickboxing, judo, and boxing. Guy B has 1-punch KO power, above-average strength, knows basic low-kicks and knees, basic greco-roman wrestling, and knows how to sprawl.

If guy B lands the first shot its basically over. He has repeated the same few moves so many times they are instinctual, its not like UFC where you know your opponents months in advance, and can plan accordingly. In a bar fight, you have to react entirely on training and instinct, there is no thought.

Size is often scoffed at by BJJ guys, and unjustly. While its true an expert 170lb BJJ guy might be able to outmaneuver a 250lber in a cage fight with rules, if you have a 250lb puncher vs a 170lb decent MMA amateur in a flash bar fight, I would bet on the 250lber.

This isnt a theoretical discussion of who would win, but rather a discussion on how to win a flash fight. And in my opinion, the best answer is to strike first and hard, and then run away.

 

[Methuselah]

Guy B has 1-punch KO power, above-average strength, knows basic low-kicks and knees, basic greco-roman wrestling, and knows how to sprawl.

You've just described Pankration, a martial art.

 

[6-heads lewis]

I had no idea. Is that the influence behind Pancrase tournaments? From what I understand, they don't allow punches to the head?

Thanks for the heads-up, that's the kind of fighter Id like to be, Ill look into it.

 

[Methuselah]

Yeah, in their formal matches they don't have punches to the face. But the martial art as a whole certainly teaches it, a very ancient style that was recently revived. It is the hand to hand combat that city-states like Sparta and Athens used as well as the early Roman empire. Quite deadly, very good for bigger framed guys. I study it and it works very well for me. Forceful, strong, and to the point.

 

[Reyaj]

If I am in a streetfight I am looking to get into a good clinch. For example I want double underhooks or I want to control is head.

When I am able to do this I will take the fight to the ground and I will be in a dominant postion. I will be mount or side mount.

Believe me guys if you take brazilian jiu-jitsu for 6 months and you mount a guy the fights over. I can mount someone that is 50 pounds heavier than me. A street fighter will never escape my mount. He will burn out so fast.

Gracie jiu-jitsu teaches your either in or out. So your either too close for him to get a good punch or your too far for him to reach you. BJJ is the greatest martial art in the world for self defense.

you never want to be in a postion were a guy catches you at the end of his punch.

Can you explan how/why Ken Shamrock was beating the snot of Gracie in their 2nd fight... and why Vitor Belfort who is a black belt in BJJ resorts to boxing and rarely uses his submissions?

 

[lookyoung]

Can you explan how/why Ken Shamrock was beating the snot of Gracie in their 2nd fight... and why Vitor Belfort who is a black belt in BJJ resorts to boxing and rarely uses his submissions?

Ken Shamrock did not beat the fvck out of gracie in there second fight. He just laid in his guard all day, and buried his face in his chest. He did catch him with a punch after they stood them up, but it was a glancing blow. If they had the 4 ounce UFC gloves the punch would have done nothing to him. The jiu-jitsu was not as advanced as it is today. If shamrock would have done that with some one like BJ penn he would have been sweeped and mounted within 30 seconds.

Vitor belfort uses boxing because he is a better boxer than he is at BJJ.:trouble:

 

[Reyaj]

Ken Shamrock did not beat the fvck out of gracie in there second fight. He just laid in his guard all day, and buried his face in his chest. He did catch him with a punch after they stood them up, but it was a glancing blow. If they had the 4 ounce UFC gloves the punch would have done nothing to him. The jiu-jitsu was not as advanced as it is today. If shamrock would have done that with some one like BJ penn he would have been sweeped and mounted within 30 seconds.

Vitor belfort uses boxing because he is a better boxer than he is at BJJ.:trouble:

I guess I didn't see the whole fight... but the clips I seen it looked like Gracie was just in the guard position while Shamrock was beating on him..... But as far as BJJ being advanced..... didn't Gracie found the art? Are you saying BJ Penn could submit a prime Royce Gracie?

Well anyway I don't know how well you follow the UFC and MMA but there was another match recently between some 2nd degree BJJ master from Brazil and this guy named Huerta who is a wrestler. Basically the BJJ guy just laid in the guard position while Huerta continually beat on him....

When I see the BJJ guys resort to that guard and just get beat on and beat on constantly it discourages me...

 

[lookyoung]

I guess I didn't see the whole fight... but the clips I seen it looked like Gracie was just in the guard position while Shamrock was beating on him..... But as far as BJJ being advanced..... didn't Gracie found the art? Are you saying BJ Penn could submit a prime Royce Gracie?

Well anyway I don't know how well you follow the UFC and MMA but there was another match recently between some 2nd degree BJJ master from Brazil and this guy named Huerta who is a wrestler. Basically the BJJ guy just laid in the guard position while Huerta continually beat on him....

When I see the BJJ guys resort to that guard and just get beat on and beat on constantly it discourages me...

Jayer follow the sport. Every fighter that fights in the UFC is a purple belt in bjj minimum. Huerta may even be a blackbelt himself I am not sure. All these fighters have at least a few years training in bjj.

If I wanted to fight mma and could choose to be a bjj worldchamp, Gold medalist wrestler, or world champ boxing, I would be an olympic gold medalist wrestler. Reason being is you teach a gold medalist 2 years of bjj he will be hard to submit by any bjj guy. Wrestlers have a great base and they are hard as hell to sweep.

Wrestling has the advantage because they train all out for 5 minutes nonstop. In bjj matches you don't go all out. You can relax. So in MMA the advantage is to the wrestler who knows a little bit of bjj.

But if you do style vs. style with no time limit. A pure wrestler vs. Pure BJJ than the bjj artist comes out on top. The wrestler will get submitted.

 

[Phyzzle]

MMA itself is rapidly becoming a martial art. Or rather, the martial art.

In a few years, no one will be going to a BJJ dojo and a Muay Thai gym. The traditional divisions will vanish. You'll just go to a MMA gym with a few instructors.

People who want to learn basketball don't go to a shooting school, then get a 2nd degree belt in Korean dribbling, then an orange belt in Indonesian-style passing. They just work on the sport, with occasional input from an experienced coach.

 

[lookyoung]

MMA itself is rapidly becoming a martial art. Or rather, the martial art.

In a few years, no one will be going to a BJJ dojo and a Muay Thai gym. The traditional divisions will vanish. You'll just go to a MMA gym with a few instructors.

People who want to learn basketball don't go to a shooting school, then get a 2nd degree belt in Korean dribbling, then an orange belt in Indonesian-style passing. They just work on the sport, with occasional input from an experienced coach.

MMA is the best martial art. It combines all styles. But in order to run a good mma school, you would need a bjj blackbelt. A division 1 college wrestler or former. Plus a muythai, and a boxing coach. It will be tough to get people that are experts in all these 4 fields.

I am also in the opinion is that you need a base. Something that your very good at, and than you pick everything else up.

. Many people won't do mma because it is too rough on them. Do you think the suburban 47 year old CEO is going to do MMA. Probably not he is more likely to do karate. There is a market for it... but it may be more than a few years.

 

[dirtyvibe]

Ken Shamrock did not beat the fvck out of gracie in there second fight. He just laid in his guard all day, and buried his face in his chest. He did catch him with a punch after they stood them up, but it was a glancing blow. If they had the 4 ounce UFC gloves the punch would have done nothing to him. The jiu-jitsu was not as advanced as it is today. If shamrock would have done that with some one like BJ penn he would have been sweeped and mounted within 30 seconds.

Vitor belfort uses boxing because he is a better boxer than he is at BJJ.:trouble:

Shamrock did beat the piss out of Royce.

Headbutts destroy the clinch REALLY fast.

Real grappling is also much different than bjj. If you're 170 lb, you can be the best BJJer in the world, but a moderately trained 250 lber will rape you. And by moderately trained I mean 1 week of BJJ, a little wrestling, or even just good instincts. You'll get pounded. And you'll get spiked on your head. Size is much more important in real life.

 

[dirtyvibe]

Jayer follow the sport. Every fighter that fights in the UFC is a purple belt in bjj minimum. Huerta may even be a blackbelt himself I am not sure. All these fighters have at least a few years training in bjj.

If I wanted to fight mma and could choose to be a bjj worldchamp, Gold medalist wrestler, or world champ boxing, I would be an olympic gold medalist wrestler. Reason being is you teach a gold medalist 2 years of bjj he will be hard to submit by any bjj guy. Wrestlers have a great base and they are hard as hell to sweep.

Wrestling has the advantage because they train all out for 5 minutes nonstop. In bjj matches you don't go all out. You can relax. So in MMA the advantage is to the wrestler who knows a little bit of bjj.

But if you do style vs. style with no time limit. A pure wrestler vs. Pure BJJ than the bjj artist comes out on top. The wrestler will get submitted.

Huerta doesn't have a belt in BJJ. If he can beat the piss out of a 2nd degree BJJ b-belt of the same size, imagine what a 250 lb man can do.

 

[dirtyvibe]

MMA is the best martial art. It combines all styles. But in order to run a good mma school, you would need a bjj blackbelt. A division 1 college wrestler or former. Plus a muythai, and a boxing coach. It will be tough to get people that are experts in all these 4 fields.

I am also in the opinion is that you need a base. Something that your very good at, and than you pick everything else up.

. Many people won't do mma because it is too rough on them. Do you think the suburban 47 year old CEO is going to do MMA. Probably not he is more likely to do karate. There is a market for it... but it may be more than a few years.

MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot).

With harder surfaces, striking becomes more important because leverage is easier to generate. Stomps, head butts, knees to the head, and soccer kicks make BJJ a lot less effective. Hard surfaces like concrete make pulling triangles, guard, and armbars equivalent to suicide. Remember when Jackson KOd Arona with a slam in the triangle? Imagine that on concrete. That would have literally killed Arona. Not to mention that size becomes that much more important since if you outweigh a guy by 20 lbs, you can slam him easily even if you have no training. That also makes Judo that much more important.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot).

With harder surfaces, striking becomes more important because leverage is easier to generate. Stomps, head butts, knees to the head, and soccer kicks make BJJ a lot less effective. Hard surfaces like concrete make pulling triangles, guard, and armbars equivalent to suicide. Remember when Jackson KOd Arona with a slam in the triangle? Imagine that on concrete. That would have literally killed Arona. Not to mention that size becomes that much more important since if you outweigh a guy by 20 lbs, you can slam him easily even if you have no training. That also makes Judo that much more important.

No need to pull a triangle on the concrete. Having a solid ground game basis helps you to prevent from being in more dangerous position on the ground.

Knowing how to escape bad positions is crucial, and positioning is a major theme in BJJ. Being able to get to say knee on stomach position, side mount, or mount, and control the opponent from that position is extremely important.

If you've ever been tied up by someone who has you in a close side mount or a knee on stomach position, you'll know how vulnerable you feel..and how few things you can even do.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Shamrock did beat the piss out of Royce.

Headbutts destroy the clinch REALLY fast.

Real grappling is also much different than bjj. If you're 170 lb, you can be the best BJJer in the world, but a moderately trained 250 lber will rape you. And by moderately trained I mean 1 week of BJJ, a little wrestling, or even just good instincts. You'll get pounded. And you'll get spiked on your head. Size is much more important in real life.

Unless the 250 lber was in stuck in a position that made his mere size useless...and maybe even detrimental. It's true that the smaller guy could get slammed, picked up, etc.

But once the game goes to the ground, there are positions where even pure size and strength cannot provide the proper means of escape. From those positions, chokes and joint locks will subdue a big man as well as a small man.

I'm 180 but when I was 150 I wrestled a guy who was 220. I submitted him with both a key lock and a rear naked choke. With the key lock, I had a close side mount on him. I had tied up his left arm and rendered it useless. His body was just a big blob of mass. His legs were useless. With his arm useless I easily attacked his left arm with a punishing kimura.

I was in mount and I let him try to bridge and escape. I elevated up and let him roll onto his side where I quickly snaked my legs into a grapevine position rendering his lower body weak. He was actually on top of me. I secured a solid rear naked choke and punished him.

You need to remember that even smaller guys can take a lot of pain and can be tremendously strong.

 

[lookyoung]

Shamrock did beat the piss out of Royce.

Headbutts destroy the clinch REALLY fast.

Real grappling is also much different than bjj. If you're 170 lb, you can be the best BJJer in the world, but a moderately trained 250 lber will rape you. And by moderately trained I mean 1 week of BJJ, a little wrestling, or even just good instincts. You'll get pounded. And you'll get spiked on your head. Size is much more important in real life.

No, he did not beat the piss out of gracie. It was a stalemate. That was probably the most boring fight in UFC history. As far as 250 pounders go talk to kimo and dan severn about that, I believe they were both submitted by a guy that weighed 170 pounds.

If both guys have no training than a 250 pound man will beat a 170 pound man 80% of the time. But if the little guy has trained for years and the big guy hasn't the little guy will win 90% of the time.

If bjj is not grappling than what the hell is?

 

[lookyoung]

Huerta doesn't have a belt in BJJ. If he can beat the piss out of a 2nd degree BJJ b-belt of the same size, imagine what a 250 lb man can do.

Huerta is one of the top 155 pounders in the UFC. He is 5-0 in the UFC. He probably has at least a purple belt in BJJ. He is a well rounded fighter. He has trained in BJJ. If Huerta had no training in BJJ he loses that fight without a doubt.

Roger Huerta would kill 95% of the 250 pounders walking around in the street.

I can tell you probably never took a martial art, and probably never been in a streetfight. If you were too walk into a bjj school and roll with a couple of guys who are not even blackbelts. Roll with bluebelts and you will have much more respect for bjj.

 

[lookyoung]

MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot).

With harder surfaces, striking becomes more important because leverage is easier to generate. Stomps, head butts, knees to the head, and soccer kicks make BJJ a lot less effective. Hard surfaces like concrete make pulling triangles, guard, and armbars equivalent to suicide. Remember when Jackson KOd Arona with a slam in the triangle? Imagine that on concrete. That would have literally killed Arona. Not to mention that size becomes that much more important since if you outweigh a guy by 20 lbs, you can slam him easily even if you have no training. That also makes Judo that much more important.

Your wrong about everything you just said. It is very easy to sweep a guy who doesn't know bjj, so you don't have to pull a triangle. It is impossible for someone to pickup someone from a triangle choke if its applied properly.

The guys that get slammed while applying a triangle have what I call a dirty triangle. If Your body is at the right angle you will never get slammed. A guy that outweighs a bjj practitioner by 20 pounds will not slam him if he does not have training.

You need to actually walk into a bjj school and not talk out of your azz. You obviously know nothing about bjj or mma.

 

[killbill]

I know some moves and I would use them if the fight I was ever in went to the ground. I dont want the fight to go to the ground but if it does its good to be ready. I think this style could be good to use though.