BPD's can control their behavior…they choose not to

[Julian]

these chicks are CRAZY lol. I literally had to laugh at the absurdity of the chit my ex would flip out about. then she'd get even more pissed off because I would laugh. I remember we were watching some dumbazz movie and there was a sex scene and she was trying to cover my eyes, like LEGIT fighting to block my view because there was tits on screen. She was THAT jealous...I was like wow this sh1t just got to the next level of fked up reality lol.

 

[btownbuck2012]

The length of this thread speaks volumes to the damage inflicted by people with cluster b disorders. Thank God there is a place like this where we can all vent. SS saved my life getting through my ordeal.

 

[StonesDK]

Forums have helped me a lot to get some clarity and becoming thankful I got out. It's amazing how much you can see, when you get distance from it. Specially the covert manipulation I can see play out in her new relationship. She just manipulated her latest victim into moving in with him after two months. The sneaky way she did this was to antagonize her ex husband, which is a malignant narcissist, into threatening her. This way she had an excuse to move in with the replacement for "safety" even though she perfectly knows her ex is all bark and no bite. She did the same triangulation with me. Ahh how history repeats itself. Perfect excuse to fall into the victim role again

Meanwhile, I can tell it upsets her, I have no problem entering her replacements house and talking to the guy when picking my son up.

This **** is hilarious to watch

 

[btownbuck2012]

It's amazing how much you can see, when you get distance from it.

Absolutely. You have to get distance from them and spend time reflecting to really understand what you went through. I'm guilty of checking her facebook page from time to time and the act this woman puts on is really something else. That's the worst part about going through this. You know they're f*cked up and that they majorly f*cked you up, but trying to explain it to others or get others to understand the intensity, her insidious nature and calculated cruelty towards you is like trying to get a room full of people to see the ghost in the corner of the room.

 

[StonesDK]

Absolutely. You have to get distance from them and spend time reflecting to really understand what you went through. I'm guilty of checking her facebook page from time to time and the act this woman puts on is really something else. That's the worst part about going through this. You know they're f*cked up and that they majorly f*cked you up, but trying to explain it to others or get others to understanding the intensity of her cruelty towards you is like trying to get a room full of people to see the ghost in the corner of the room.

It's because the things we experienced is so unbelievable, stuff like that simply doesn't happen or exist in their world. I've given up trying to explain things to people. The only place where one might get some understanding is online, with people that has had similar experiences.

Don't beat yourself up about looking at her Facebook. We are all guilty of it. What's important to note is, it's all to put on a show. They need friends and family to see her in a certain light. It's based on shame/low self esteem and fear with a touch of narcissism. The perfect life, is a mask for the world. If it hurts you in the process then her self esteem gets a much needed boost. This is specially true in my case because I left her.

 

[btownbuck2012]

It's because the things we experienced is so unbelievable, stuff like that simply doesn't happen or exist in their world. I've given up trying to explain things to people. The only place where one might get some understanding is online, with people that has had similar experiences.

Don't beat yourself up about looking at her Facebook. We are all guilty of it. What's important to note is, it's all to put on a show. They need friends and family to see her in a certain light. It's based on shame/low self esteem and fear with a touch of narcissism. The perfect life, is a mask for the world. If it hurts you in the process then her self esteem gets a much needed boost. This is specially true in my case because I left her.

Yeah, the healing that is acquired through reading forums like SS, watching videos and reading a few books has saved my life. I've even had a few "aha" moments that have gotten me damn near close to tears. That relief you get from finally getting some validation that your gut feeling about this woman was right is a wonderful feeling, but, as you mentioned, so few of the people in our lives can relate.

 

[exhausted]

Distance gives perspective. I was abused enough not even to see she would stonewall me anytime I had an issue. I would get the "I'm not doing this " as if I'm a piece of chit with bringing up an issue where she is being disrespect. Believe me I'm not a complainer bur every few months she would do something iffy or if I had a problem with it I would get shut down. Her attitude would change and she acted like I was some pos pain in the ass dummy so she wouldn't have to deal with her mistakes.
I always asked why am I in TROUBLEfor something you have done????

Tho this bitftch had a complaint all day along everyday w no problem.

 

[051AV]

The length of this thread speaks volumes to the damage inflicted by people with cluster b disorders. Thank God there is a place like this where we can all vent. SS saved my life getting through my ordeal.

These forums have helped me put all the pieces together to help me realize what happened as things were really confusing being with my ex. Its helped me figure out that she is a BPD, when I met her I knew she had mental health issues and she's on meds for it. I did notice a pattern of her train wreck life I couldn't place any answers to it as I've never had any experience with BPD women. Now that I know what I know her train wreck life is text book BPD. I always wondered why she would sabotage her success she would try so hard to be successful then screw it up. I also learned why she acted so child like at times she even talked like a child at times. I'm so glad she is out of my life, she would have been the perfect woman if she didn't have BPD she was attractive and smart, she is a high functioning BPD, you wouldn't know she has BPD until you got to know her.

 

[MrAddiction]

I found that in another Thread but think it is worth to repost in here.
The whole thread is a good read.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/help-possible-cluster-b-feeling-totally-lost.183173/page-8
---------------------
49au
---------------------------

Secondly, forgive her. It is not anyone's fault that they have BPD. That does not mean that her actions are appropriate, healthy, or should be condoned. It also does not mean that they are fit for relationships. I am not saying any of that. I'm saying that you have experienced someone whose self-loathing, pain, fear, and despair is unfathomable, and she will be this way FOREVER. Honestly? I pity my ex. I'm not going to be her tampon, her therapist, her friend, or anything else, but I pity her. I hope she gets help. I hope yours gets help. It may not seem like it sometimes, but these women are MISERABLE. They are broken, hurting, and lost in ways that you and I will never be. And the good news is that WE have the capacity to examine our wounds, move forward, and become stronger men with stronger boundaries and more to offer a healthy woman. But our exes? They will continue to drift in the black void they call their life.


The last two points have been disputed in this thread so I'm going to write another post with a different perspective.


Also -



Findog said:
"It brings back all the feelings I've been working on trying to process - the lack of closure, not understanding it, the hurt of losing her, feeling like I have struggled to enjoy my life fully while healing whereas she appears to have moved on to a carefree existence."


If you think that a woman with BPD can have a carefree existence, you do not understand this disorder.

As far as her forgetting you - BPDs do not grieve, they repress. Devaluation and splitting are their bread and butter. It's how they avoid asking themselves, "Why did I push a good man away?" She will revise history and find some way to make you unsuitable, find some reason why it would never have worked anyway, etc. It's like a psychological levee they build in order to keep out memories and feelings which will lead to pain, which will lead to introspection and accountability. They are obviously terrified of these things. This "levee" can consist of lies she tells herself about you, some new guy, her career, anything to distract her.

Weeks or months later, that levee will probably break. And when that happens, she will go through the pain she DIDN'T go through at the beginning. This is why you will read so much about them re-engaging, "hoovering", etc. They never really get over anyone. They just bury, bury, bury.




There is a very unhealthy idea (IMHO) on this forum that BPDs intentionally "victimize" and manipulate men only to leave them. Yet I think, as Die Hard said, it is naive to give them that much credit. BPDs have been called "evil", "vampires", etc., but in reality they are just very sick people whose brains simply don't process the world correctly. This means that they leave a trail of destruction, but it does not mean that they intended to.

This is due to both nature AND nurture. These people experience childhood trauma of some sort, and are stuck around 3 years old in their psychological development (nurture) Yet it has been shown that there are physical differences in a BPD's brain (nature).


Proponents of this idea will argue that BPDs are hyper-emotional and experience wild highs and lows, then turn around and say that these women feel nothing for their victims. This is contradictory. The problem is not LACK of emotion, it is dysregulation of emotion.

These men will also argue that borderline women are grand schemers and masterful manipulators who plot things weeks and months in advance... while in the same post conceding that BPDs have the emotional and psychological capacity of a 3 year old.

I don't know a whole lot of 3 year olds who are capable of grand, complex schemes. Yes, borderline women CAN be extremely intelligent (mine has maintained nearly flawless grades through 3+ years of med school), but their emotional intelligence is practically zero. Combine this with their inability to regulate emotion, their sheer impulsiveness, and I find it hard to believe that these women intentionally lay complex plans for the future.

As mine told me from the very beginning, "I'm not a planner. I hate plans." (One of the few things I believe her about now )



BPDs are addicted to the longing for love. They will chase it, and re-live childhood abandonment over and over and over again. This is their subconscious drive. Consciously, however, they are desperately looking for "The One", that magical person who will cure their problems and fill the giant void they have in place of a true sense of self.

Someone like that recycles men not because they hate men; but because they are constantly realizing that the new guy is not providing that magic bullet, the wholeness they are seeking. The difference between a normal person and a BPD is that a BPD is capable of realizing, "This person is not going to make me whole," but they are too childlike to realize that "no other person is ever going to make me whole." The cycle repeats because they are incapable of connecting the dots and realizing that the problem is not the men in their cycle, the problem is the goal of the cycle.

In the beginning, they desperately want to love you. They want you to be "The One." And they think you are. And they are full of love for you (or what they interpret as love)!

Too many guys are listening to this "she never loved you" line, and it is both wrong and damaging. You are left with the impression that it was all a lie, and it wasn't. Was it real, healthy, reciprocal adult love? No... but it was not a cold, conscious manipulation. She wanted it just as much as you did. She wanted the pain to go away.

I am finally realizing what mine meant when she told me post-breakup, "I gave you my heart. What I felt for you was real. But I've given so many pieces of my heart away that I have nothing left to give." At the time it sounded like contradictory drivel; but during that very lucid period, she gave me a glimpse into her miserable life of pouring herself into guy after guy after guy, trying to find that "special" one that would fix everything from her childhood. And when she sensed that I wanted something from her, a real intimacy, she instinctively knew that she was not healthy enough to give it to me. She was not "on my level", with regard to emotional capacity. It's the same for all of them.


Remember, BPD is a personality disorder. It is not just some random neurotic behavior like biting your nails or having a fear of spiders. It is a pervasive infection of the psyche that makes these women view the world in an irrational and sometimes downright psychotic way. The way they act is terrible, hurtful, manipulative, and yes, we must avoid them at all costs. But that doesn't mean they are going around trying to victimize everyone.

Deep down, they are little children struggling with shame, self-hate, fear, confusion, rejection, and an overwhelming desire for love. Their motives are not nearly as sinister - or complex - as some would imagine.


The "hate your BPD ex because she is a psycho manipulative witch who never loved you" mindset does NOT lead to true healing. It leads to bitterness and a victim mentality. You are hers forever, whether you're in her world or not. And what's truly sick about it is that you are employing the same defense mechanisms to shield your psyche from the pain of losing her that she uses to defend from the pain of confronting herself: splitting and devaluation.

I think the proper attitude is to recognize that a) these women are severely disordered b) they really did love you (in their way) but the disorder will ALWAYS win c) they had/have good qualities that you can enjoy in a future woman d) the relationship was NOT all bad e) there WERE moments of sincerity and humanity in the relationship f) you will come out of this a stronger man.

 

[Pandora]

I found that in another Thread but think it is worth to repost in here.
The whole thread is a good read.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/help-possible-cluster-b-feeling-totally-lost.183173/page-8
---------------------
49au
---------------------------

Secondly, forgive her. It is not anyone's fault that they have BPD. That does not mean that her actions are appropriate, healthy, or should be condoned. It also does not mean that they are fit for relationships. I am not saying any of that. I'm saying that you have experienced someone whose self-loathing, pain, fear, and despair is unfathomable, and she will be this way FOREVER. Honestly? I pity my ex. I'm not going to be her tampon, her therapist, her friend, or anything else, but I pity her. I hope she gets help. I hope yours gets help. It may not seem like it sometimes, but these women are MISERABLE. They are broken, hurting, and lost in ways that you and I will never be. And the good news is that WE have the capacity to examine our wounds, move forward, and become stronger men with stronger boundaries and more to offer a healthy woman. But our exes? They will continue to drift in the black void they call their life.


The last two points have been disputed in this thread so I'm going to write another post with a different perspective.


Also -



Findog said:
"It brings back all the feelings I've been working on trying to process - the lack of closure, not understanding it, the hurt of losing her, feeling like I have struggled to enjoy my life fully while healing whereas she appears to have moved on to a carefree existence."


If you think that a woman with BPD can have a carefree existence, you do not understand this disorder.

As far as her forgetting you - BPDs do not grieve, they repress. Devaluation and splitting are their bread and butter. It's how they avoid asking themselves, "Why did I push a good man away?" She will revise history and find some way to make you unsuitable, find some reason why it would never have worked anyway, etc. It's like a psychological levee they build in order to keep out memories and feelings which will lead to pain, which will lead to introspection and accountability. They are obviously terrified of these things. This "levee" can consist of lies she tells herself about you, some new guy, her career, anything to distract her.

Weeks or months later, that levee will probably break. And when that happens, she will go through the pain she DIDN'T go through at the beginning. This is why you will read so much about them re-engaging, "hoovering", etc. They never really get over anyone. They just bury, bury, bury.




There is a very unhealthy idea (IMHO) on this forum that BPDs intentionally "victimize" and manipulate men only to leave them. Yet I think, as Die Hard said, it is naive to give them that much credit. BPDs have been called "evil", "vampires", etc., but in reality they are just very sick people whose brains simply don't process the world correctly. This means that they leave a trail of destruction, but it does not mean that they intended to.

This is due to both nature AND nurture. These people experience childhood trauma of some sort, and are stuck around 3 years old in their psychological development (nurture) Yet it has been shown that there are physical differences in a BPD's brain (nature).


Proponents of this idea will argue that BPDs are hyper-emotional and experience wild highs and lows, then turn around and say that these women feel nothing for their victims. This is contradictory. The problem is not LACK of emotion, it is dysregulation of emotion.

These men will also argue that borderline women are grand schemers and masterful manipulators who plot things weeks and months in advance... while in the same post conceding that BPDs have the emotional and psychological capacity of a 3 year old.

I don't know a whole lot of 3 year olds who are capable of grand, complex schemes. Yes, borderline women CAN be extremely intelligent (mine has maintained nearly flawless grades through 3+ years of med school), but their emotional intelligence is practically zero. Combine this with their inability to regulate emotion, their sheer impulsiveness, and I find it hard to believe that these women intentionally lay complex plans for the future.

As mine told me from the very beginning, "I'm not a planner. I hate plans." (One of the few things I believe her about now )



BPDs are addicted to the longing for love. They will chase it, and re-live childhood abandonment over and over and over again. This is their subconscious drive. Consciously, however, they are desperately looking for "The One", that magical person who will cure their problems and fill the giant void they have in place of a true sense of self.

Someone like that recycles men not because they hate men; but because they are constantly realizing that the new guy is not providing that magic bullet, the wholeness they are seeking. The difference between a normal person and a BPD is that a BPD is capable of realizing, "This person is not going to make me whole," but they are too childlike to realize that "no other person is ever going to make me whole." The cycle repeats because they are incapable of connecting the dots and realizing that the problem is not the men in their cycle, the problem is the goal of the cycle.

In the beginning, they desperately want to love you. They want you to be "The One." And they think you are. And they are full of love for you (or what they interpret as love)!

Too many guys are listening to this "she never loved you" line, and it is both wrong and damaging. You are left with the impression that it was all a lie, and it wasn't. Was it real, healthy, reciprocal adult love? No... but it was not a cold, conscious manipulation. She wanted it just as much as you did. She wanted the pain to go away.

I am finally realizing what mine meant when she told me post-breakup, "I gave you my heart. What I felt for you was real. But I've given so many pieces of my heart away that I have nothing left to give." At the time it sounded like contradictory drivel; but during that very lucid period, she gave me a glimpse into her miserable life of pouring herself into guy after guy after guy, trying to find that "special" one that would fix everything from her childhood. And when she sensed that I wanted something from her, a real intimacy, she instinctively knew that she was not healthy enough to give it to me. She was not "on my level", with regard to emotional capacity. It's the same for all of them.


Remember, BPD is a personality disorder. It is not just some random neurotic behavior like biting your nails or having a fear of spiders. It is a pervasive infection of the psyche that makes these women view the world in an irrational and sometimes downright psychotic way. The way they act is terrible, hurtful, manipulative, and yes, we must avoid them at all costs. But that doesn't mean they are going around trying to victimize everyone.

Deep down, they are little children struggling with shame, self-hate, fear, confusion, rejection, and an overwhelming desire for love. Their motives are not nearly as sinister - or complex - as some would imagine.


The "hate your BPD ex because she is a psycho manipulative witch who never loved you" mindset does NOT lead to true healing. It leads to bitterness and a victim mentality. You are hers forever, whether you're in her world or not. And what's truly sick about it is that you are employing the same defense mechanisms to shield your psyche from the pain of losing her that she uses to defend from the pain of confronting herself: splitting and devaluation.

I think the proper attitude is to recognize that a) these women are severely disordered b) they really did love you (in their way) but the disorder will ALWAYS win c) they had/have good qualities that you can enjoy in a future woman d) the relationship was NOT all bad e) there WERE moments of sincerity and humanity in the relationship f) you will come out of this a stronger man.

This is great man. This is a great breakdown of the condition. These girls are monsters but only because they are hurting greatly. We should stay away from them but also have empathy. If we had their childhood we would probably be equally messed up. Their capacity for self awareness is non existent.

 

[MrAddiction]

We should stay away from them but also have empathy

But that is the harzest part After having been involved with them. How can you resist the hoovering and stay NC if you have empathy/pity for them. Especially if most of the time it was empathy that drove men towards them?
Fcuking dilemma.

 

[StonesDK]

[

There is a very unhealthy idea (IMHO) on this forum that BPDs intentionally "victimize" and manipulate men only to leave them. Yet I think, as Die Hard said, it is naive to give them that much credit. BPDs have been called "evil", "vampires", etc., but in reality they are just very sick people whose brains simply don't process the world correctly. This means that they leave a trail of destruction, but it does not mean that they intended to.

These men will also argue that borderline women are grand schemers and masterful manipulators who plot things weeks and months in advance... while in the same post conceding that BPDs have the emotional and psychological capacity of a 3 year old.

I don't know a whole lot of 3 year olds who are capable of grand, complex schemes. Yes, borderline women CAN be extremely intelligent (mine has maintained nearly flawless grades through 3+ years of med school), but their emotional intelligence is practically zero. Combine this with their inability to regulate emotion, their sheer impulsiveness, and I find it hard to believe that these women intentionally lay complex plans for the future.

As mine told me from the very beginning, "I'm not a planner. I hate plans." (One of the few things I believe her about now )[/QUOTE

My experience speaks against this description. BPD's may very well be reactive but when factoring in narcissism as co-morbidity which is more often the case, you can and will see premeditated action as well as manipulation.

To give an example of my ex. Her ex husband is a dysregulated low narcissist. She's been with this guy for 18 years and knows what buttons to push to get the usual threats. Whenever his dysregulation would affect our relationship or their kids. She would discuss with me how best to 'punish him' in the future days after the fact. Using the silent treatment on him regarding the kids was her favorite weapon. If he acted up she would tell me how she would use the threat of seeking child support on the third child to get him in line. There were many techniques she would share with me, she could use against him.

She would also triangulate in the very beginning, pushing his buttons to the point he would become threatening. Abuser becoming the victim, and the victim becoming the abuser, while using me as rescuer.
That is not reactive behavior

That's not even mentioning the coercive manipulation she used against me to get her goals met. When she wasn't getting anywhere with me moving in with her (i told her I wanted to wait a year before canceling my lease) she would suddenly punish me, telling me we couldn't spend as much time together because of her social benefits of being a single parent on that address (there are rules about how much time a partner can spend with somebody without financial consequences if she's the only one listed on the address) Something that was not a problem previously. She used many more tricks in the bag but I stuck to my guns

 

[exhausted]

But that is the harzest part After having been involved with them. How can you resist the hoovering and stay NC if you have empathy/pity for them. Especially if most of the time it was empathy that drove men towards them?
Fcuking dilemma.

Wow you hit it on the head.

That's it. Why I kept going back.
Even today i want to go back even knowing how unfair and abusive it will be half the time. I literally have to talk myself out of this daily. Its been about a month.

 

[MrAddiction]

Even today i want to go back even knowing how unfair and abusive it will be half the time. I literally have to talk myself out of this daily

Yes. The First thing that pops to mind are the good things and then you have to actively remind yourself of the bad stuff they have done and are capable of.
That is cognitive disonnance in action, if I get it right. Sad but true.

 

[051AV]

Yes. The First thing that pops to mind are the good things and then you have to actively remind yourself of the bad stuff they have done and are capable of.
That is cognitive disonnance in action, if I get it right. Sad but true.

There are days I miss my ex, I think about her, she pops up in my dreams, when I get this way I have to remember she will never change, I also remember how vicious she is. I treated her like a princess I was always there for her, gave her support when she needed it, she didn't remember any of that when she started knifing me in the back wanting to see me pay for what I done. All we've been through and you literally want to kill me, wow you are really F'ed in the head. If her parents didn't screw up her life she would be the perfect girlfriend, she claimed her family disowned her. The best thing for her is walk away from her and never turn back, I usually don't give up on people.......

 

[MrAddiction]

she pops up in my dreams

Just happened this morning. Feels absolutely fcuked to Start in to a day this way. Feels like missing her. Strange thing is that this feelings have become stronger the Last weeks. i had times when Did not miss her at all.

 

[btownbuck2012]

I usually don't give up on people.......

I'm the same way, which is why we got dragged down as far as we did with these women.

 

[StonesDK]

Just happened this morning. Feels absolutely fcuked to Start in to a day this way. Feels like missing her. Strange thing is that this feelings have become stronger the Last weeks. i had times when Did not miss her at all.

Mornings are usually the hardest because we are more lucid and clear headed. We haven't started our daily routines yet or filled our heads with distractions. I sometimes think our minds work against us fighting back at letting go once we make some progress.

We fell in love with the role we were cast in their lives because in the end it made us feel like better people. Somebody actually needing you, giving you the feeling they can't survive without becomes an overwhelming feeling of love you just can't let go of. Watching them on the sidelines not only surviving without us but seem happy after the fact. Just completely invalidates all the feelings they brought out in us. That's a hard one to swallow.

 

[exhausted]

I'm the same way, which is why we got dragged down as far as we did with these women.

That resonates with me. I remember my ex having many obstacles she was dealing with (her ex, court, fake cps allegations,her kid being very bad) and asking me if i was going to walk and i said many times i dont bail on people in need.

I see looking back as a brother of 3 sisters, star athlete in all sports, my family went thro a rough time for years and my positivity and achievements carried the family in a positive light especially my dad.

I guess now im built like that in time of need i take over and carry everyone in many ways.

Got no appreciation for it this time tho.
Instead the cvnt gave less over time and expected more and more from me. Like "he'll do it he takes care of everyone and everything"

Sucks

 

[exhausted]

Yes. The First thing that pops to mind are the good things and then you have to actively remind yourself of the bad stuff they have done and are capable of.
That is cognitive disonnance in action, if I get it right. Sad but true.

Yes it's as if my mind has turned against me this week. The thoughts that I will not get to enjoy her family, her and the many fun and positive times we had has been wearing on me. You think you will uave an entire life with someone, finally you found someone and back to the drawing board once again. Another failure.