Boxing: Mayweather V Mitchell

[Dimebag_Darrell]

Originally posted by backbreaker
actually I do. we have mutal friends.

He is a great guy, but has a bit of a temper... One night, long before he was famous, my friends and I were in Ihop and he happened to be there, and a random guy came up to him and hit on his girl in his face... He proceeded to give him one of the worst ass whoppings known to man. It was so bad people didn't even want to break it up.

Other than that, he is extremely approachable, a great athelete... smaller than you would think, he's really not big at all... I mean, he's ripped, but he's not big.

He's by far the most loved athlete from arkansas, with Joe Johnson being a distance second.

It's one thing to start slow, it's another thing to wait until the end of the 7th/8th round to show life.

If he kicks it in gear around the end of the 4th, ,beginning of the 5th, I think he will give JT a run for his money... If that fight would have lasted 2 more rounds last time, he would have knocked JT out.

I don't see where you guys think BHOP lost his reflexes... the last 4-5 rounds he toyed with JT, JT couldn't touch him, and damn near every other punch he was throwing was dead on... He just starts slow.

I am rooting for JT, but I watch enough boxing to know people, ,espically down here, are selling BHOP short, ,very short.

What about Matt Jones? I know that dude and he's a legend up in Fayetteville. IHOP, you talking about the one off of I-540 near Conway?

 

[CLOONEY]

Oh well, a brutal crushing of Mitchell. Mayweather is definately the real deal and very surprisingly, doesnt seem to have a problem carrying the extra weight.

I just really hope a fight with Zab Judah can take place. That would be a chess match and both men would be rocked throughout the fight.

Time for Mayweather to really step it up, stop whining about the money, and cement his legacy if he wishes one day to possibly be meantioned in the same breath as a guy like Sugar Ray Robinson.

So far he has done what he was meant to to all his opposition. But Mayweather has not fought and beat a truly great fighter yet. Not like a guy like Ray Leonard, who beat the likes of Duran, Benitez, Hearns, Hagler.

The best fighter on the Mayweather resume is probably Castillo, and he will only be remembered as a good lightweight, definately not a great.

 

[Dimebag_Darrell]

F*ck Sugar Ray. The best fighter with the quickest relex and an iron right fist and his left one wasn't no cup cake either..what about Roy Jones Jr.?! Incredible guy,

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Dimebag_Darrell
F*ck Sugar Ray. The best fighter with the quickest relex and an iron right fist and his left one wasn't no cup cake either..what about Roy Jones Jr.?! Incredible guy,

Roy was incredible. Fastest reflexes I ever saw! Good right hand and good left also, definately didnt carry nearly as much pop as a guy like Ray Robinson.

Roy had one very very crucial weakness however, and that was his suspect chin. You can have all the skills in the world, but if you are always suseptible to one punch changing the entire outcome of the fight, you will find it very very hard to be ranked up there with guys like both the Sugar Rays.

How can you even compare BHOP, Toney, Ruiz, Griffin, Harding etc, to Hearns, Hagler, Benitez and Duran?

Or how about guys that Ray Robinson fought, like Olson, Basillio, Gavilan, Angott, Armstrong, Graciano, LaMotta?

Roy will always have a tranished legacy in the fact that he was never really "tested". However, I do say that the Toney and BHOP fights were GREAT wins for RJJ and are very undervalued by most boxing historians.

 

[Dimebag_Darrell]

But you know, you've got it to take it deeper on why Jones even retired. Its so obvious that super middleweight fight back in like 1994 between Gerald McClelan and Nigel Benn. Boy, that was a crazy night that really got Jones thinking.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Dimebag_Darrell
But you know, you've got it to take it deeper on why Jones even retired. Its so obvious that super middleweight fight back in like 1994 between Gerald McClelan and Nigel Benn. Boy, that was a crazy night that really got Jones thinking.

It did, but Roy did not retire for years, and to this day is STILL unretired. He says he wants 2 more fights, even though he has been brutally KOd twice, especially the second one, that was aweful! The fight didnt effect him as much as he says, or he would hang them up! He is obviously way past it, but just cant quit, his ego is just too big!

 

[Reyaj]

Wow, I've been away for a short while but am very pleased to see all the replies to this boxing thread!!!!

Time for me to chime in on this discussion.

Firstly I know its after the fact but I would have picked pretty boy Floyd by knockout. I think Mayweather Jr. is the best pound per pound figher right now period.

The man is undefeated and has beaten everyone put in front of him. His biggest wins are obvioiusly Castillo and Corrales and these are both excellent fighters, among the best in their natural weight class. I say Mayweather can beat anyone that's been mentioned for him to fight. This includes, Hatton, Zab Judah, Miguel Cotto, and yes I'll go so far as to say even Winky Wright.

He is qucker than Hatton, with far supperior reflexes
He has a better chin than Zab
He has a better chin and is quicker than Cotto
Winky would probably give him the most trouble, but this is only because he's much naturally heavier. I still say Floyd's skills are superior. and make no mistake that Winky is a great figher.

I would like to Oscar come back and fight Winky. I think this is a fight he could win and would help his legacy which has honestly faded in my opinion. Its funny how Oscar is considered one of the greatest ever by most, but his two biggest wins were again Fernando Vargas and Ike Quartey.

Surely Vargas and Quartey if considered great or excellent are at least as equal of opposition as Corrales and Castillo were for Mayweather. Hence, Mayweather has 2 great wins under his belt already.


As for Jermain vs BHOP, this like the first one should be a very interesting fight. Even though Jermain did win the first fight I have to say I am really not that impressed by him as a fighter. He should have beaten BHOP much more convncingly based on his natural ability. I really don't know what's going to happen in this 2nd fight, but I do know that if you are a true boxing fan, you will appreciate the bout regardless of whether its a brawl or tacticul like the first one. If I have to choose right now, I'll take Taylor by KO

Believe it or not, the fight I am looking forward to the most is Calzghe vs Jeff Lacy. I have seen Calzghe fight and was very impressed with him. He is agressive, has great form, and is an animal in the ring. He reminds of a Jeff Fennech (Clooney you are an aussie I'm sure you know all about what a monster Fennech was in the ring) Lacy on the other hand is just a beast!!! Lacy might be naturally stronger and hit harder, but both of these guys come to punch and punch fiercly, This will probably come down to who's will is stronger. I'm not sure how old Calzaghe is, but if he's not past his prime, I'll pick him. This should be an explosive fight, and potential fight of the year canidate!!!!!!!

Ok I'm done.... lol

 

[CLOONEY]

The thing why Oscar is rated so highly, is because guys like Quartey and Vargas were a LOT bigger naturally than himself. Remember, he started in super-feather also. Its like Mayweather beating Mayorga and Margarito. Although Quartey was probably better than either of these men.

Oscar beating Chavez was probably just as good as the win of Mayweather over Coralles. Coralles remember, barely beat an old and washed up Casamayor.

The MAJORITY of fight fans, I will not give my opinion, but lets just say majority, also took Oscar over Tito AND Mosley in fight 2. Beating Tito at welter in the eyes of the fans, is a HUGE accomplishment and he is the only man to do it. (in the fans eyes once again).

Oscar also has titles in 6 weight divisions, and has beaten more world champs than any current fighter. If you throw in the rest of th champs he blew away throughout his career.

As far as Lacy V Calzaghe, I take Calzaghe if he comes into the ring in shape and has a good night. The guy is a good boxer also, and hits a lot sharper than Lacy. Lacy does however have a strength advantage, but I doubt by much! Calzaghe is not that old, about 32 or so, but has not looked at his best for a while. This is a big factor, can he rise to the occassion and come in the night of the fight at his peak! Who knows, I think whoever handles the pressure, has the will and conditioning to win, will take this fight on a close decision.

I dont see Taylor stopping BHOP, nobody has come close to doing that, Taylor first has to land some big punches and I dont see that happening either. Taylor by decision.

I think DLH does have a chance of beating Winky also, although I have to admit, the proposed DLH V Mayorga fight would be firewords to watch! DLH would land on him all day long, but Mayorga would give it to him, and lets face it, DLH does fade towards the later rounds, although he can pull out a big last round if need be. He has a huge heart! I see DLH winning this on UD.

It is hard to argue Mayweather is not the best P4P at the moment, the kid just might be something special that could go down in the history books as great. Then again, he does need to step up the competition to do so.

 

[TheRenegadesOfFunk]

DLH vs. WW
If he wants to cement his legacy in boxing as a great fighter then he should fight Winky Wright. Winky Wright is a very technically efficient boxer at the top of his game. I predict, Wright will out boxed and control the pace of the fight against DLH. WW wins a wide decision.

The big fights Oscar fought were either controversial, disputed decision, or a loss…
Oscar fought Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley (twice), Hopkins, and Vargas in their prime.
Win -Whitaker: Close fight. Only a point either way or a draw.
Win -Quartey: Some believe that Quartey won the fight.
Lost -Trinidad: Many felt DLH out boxed Trinidad and won the fight. Running for the last third of the fight allowed Trinidad to win the final rounds. Controversial fight.
Lost -Mosley: Perfect fight for Mosley, a clear-cut victory for Sugar Shane.
Lost -Mosley rematch: DLH controlled the pace and the distance. Questionable scoring.
Lost -Hopkins: No upsets here. 9th Round TKO.
Win -Vargas: DLH ‘s only big win fight where he looked dominant and impressive through out the fight.

That’s 3-4, with Vargas (on steroids) as his only impressive signature fight. A Winky Wright upset or a Trinidad victory would be huge. Regardless, He’ll go down as Hall Of Fame boxer and one of the best in his era.
---
Mayweather
After the Mitchell fight, Floyd said he wants to fight DLH, Winky Wright and Zab Judah. PBF looks like he wants to avoid risky fights in Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, and Kostya Tszyu at 140.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by TheRenegadesOfFunk
DLH vs. WW
If he wants to cement his legacy in boxing as a great fighter then he should fight Winky Wright. Winky Wright is a very technically efficient boxer at the top of his game. I predict, Wright will out boxed and control the pace of the fight against DLH. WW wins a wide decision.

The big fights Oscar fought were either controversial, disputed decision, or a loss…
Oscar fought Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley (twice), Hopkins, and Vargas in their prime.
Win -Whitaker: Close fight. Only a point either way or a draw.
Win -Quartey: Some believe that Quartey won the fight.
Lost -Trinidad: Many felt DLH out boxed Trinidad and won the fight. Running for the last third of the fight allowed Trinidad to win the final rounds. Controversial fight.
Lost -Mosley: Perfect fight for Mosley, a clear-cut victory for Sugar Shane.
Lost -Mosley rematch: DLH controlled the pace and the distance. Questionable scoring.
Lost -Hopkins: No upsets here. 9th Round TKO.
Win -Vargas: DLH ‘s only big win fight where he looked dominant and impressive through out the fight.

That’s 3-4, with Vargas (on steroids) as his only impressive signature fight. A Winky Wright upset or a Trinidad victory would be huge. Regardless, He’ll go down as Hall Of Fame boxer and one of the best in his era.
---
Mayweather
After the Mitchell fight, Floyd said he wants to fight DLH, Winky Wright and Zab Judah. PBF looks like he wants to avoid risky fights in Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, and Kostya Tszyu at 140.

I do not count the BHOP loss as anything to DLH. Much as I dont count Duran loosing to Hagler as anything much. Both men were far out of their natural weight division to cause any damage.

DLH has fought the best out there, better than anyone else of this era, and better than anyone else for decades IMHO, and he has held his own with all of them. For this reason, DLH goes down in my book as an all-time great, not up there with the top few greatest of all-time, but definately up there as one of the greatest. As he does in boxing history and the minds of the people.

Winky V DLH. Interesting fight, Winky is stronger, a lot tighter defence. However, I would say Oscar will far outwork him in this fight. Something Shane Mosley and Tito couldnt do, they instead simply tried to throw bombs. This fight goes a lot like the DLH V Sturm fight, but DLH doesnt land as much. Winky takes it by a decision. DLH is just too small naturall for a guy like Winky. Remember DLH started at super-feather, Winky at Jr middle. That is a HUGE difference.

As for Mayweather, he would destroy Cotto. Cotto is proving to be more hype than anything else. He was severely hurt by Corley and in his last fight. Mayweather would take him apart.

Hatton and Tszyu would be good fights. I would however, rather see him vs Zab, but again Mayweather prices himself out of the fight. Demanding the lions share of the purse. Zab is afterall, the undisputed welterweight champion of the world, and if Mayweather wants to establish himself as an all-time great, he needs to settle down and take the big fights. History is far more important than money, especially if your already a millionaire.

DLH will not fight Mayweather, he has stated that numerous times.

Winky is a HUGE ask for Mayweather, that is moving up ANOTHER 7lbs from where he just moved too. This would be a damn dangerous fight, and one I would favour winky heavily.

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Dimebag_Darrell
What about Matt Jones? I know that dude and he's a legend up in Fayetteville. IHOP, you talking about the one off of I-540 near Conway?

lol, ,believe it or not I played on the same AAU basketball team as matt in high school.. We graduated in the same year (01). He played HS ball at Van Buern, then transfered to Fort Smith his Junior year I believe.. but we both played for the Rockets in AAU Ball.

I am talking about the I-Hop that is across the street from Park Plaza Mall on Markem and University.. it's a sorta hang out spot on Weekend nights.

Anyway, Matt is about as freaskish as an ahtlete as you will see. Even in basketball, he was not always the most skilled player on the court, but was always the most athlethic. He would be an NFL QB if he didn't have a cronic sholder problem, he never even practied durning the week at Arkansas, just played on Gamedays, his arm hurt to bad to practice, which is why he never really developed.

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by CLOONEY
I do not count the BHOP loss as anything to DLH. Much as I dont count Duran loosing to Hagler as anything much. Both men were far out of their natural weight division to cause any damage.

DLH has fought the best out there, better than anyone else of this era, and better than anyone else for decades IMHO, and he has held his own with all of them. For this reason, DLH goes down in my book as an all-time great, not up there with the top few greatest of all-time, but definately up there as one of the greatest. As he does in boxing history and the minds of the people.

Winky V DLH. Interesting fight, Winky is stronger, a lot tighter defence. However, I would say Oscar will far outwork him in this fight. Something Shane Mosley and Tito couldnt do, they instead simply tried to throw bombs. This fight goes a lot like the DLH V Sturm fight, but DLH doesnt land as much. Winky takes it by a decision. DLH is just too small naturall for a guy like Winky. Remember DLH started at super-feather, Winky at Jr middle. That is a HUGE difference.

As for Mayweather, he would destroy Cotto. Cotto is proving to be more hype than anything else. He was severely hurt by Corley and in his last fight. Mayweather would take him apart.

Hatton and Tszyu would be good fights. I would however, rather see him vs Zab, but again Mayweather prices himself out of the fight. Demanding the lions share of the purse. Zab is afterall, the undisputed welterweight champion of the world, and if Mayweather wants to establish himself as an all-time great, he needs to settle down and take the big fights. History is far more important than money, especially if your already a millionaire.

DLH will not fight Mayweather, he has stated that numerous times.

Winky is a HUGE ask for Mayweather, that is moving up ANOTHER 7lbs from where he just moved too. This would be a damn dangerous fight, and one I would favour winky heavily.

I didn't see Cotto's last fight, what happened? He looked damn good everytime I saw him, but again, it's not like I thought he was the Lebron James of Boxing or anything, but looked like he deserved a title shot

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by backbreaker
I didn't see Cotto's last fight, what happened? He looked damn good everytime I saw him, but again, it's not like I thought he was the Lebron James of Boxing or anything, but looked like he deserved a title shot

And before you ask, yes I know Joe Johnson.. better than I know the other two actually. My older cousin, Mike Jones, played at Arkansas with him and I would always scrimmage wtih them when they played pickup ball when I was up there.

Also, we played in the same conference in high school when he was a senior and I was a sophmore.

Besides that, he used is best friends with my next door neighboor growing up.. which is ironic, because my next door neighoor and I were the only two black families in the sub division.. the odds

 

[TheRenegadesOfFunk]

Cotto (suspect chin) had one bad round against Corley. After surviving the third round, Cotto walked away with an impressive in the win (TKO Mid).

Cotto and Margarito are very under-rated fighters.
-Miguel Cotto is a very smart disciplined fighter, and one of the best power puncher in his division. He also has a great fan base. I still think he is still 2-3 fights away, but has a great future.
-Antonio Margarito (a fighter everyone is avoiding) is ‘old school fighter'. All-around fighter, good at cutting off the ring, and is a great finisher. He is ready for a big fight.
Both Cotto and Margarito would give Mayweather some trouble (unlike Gatti or Mitchell), or at least a MEANINGFUL MATCH.

Mayweather has a lot fighters to choice to from. Great fighters cement their legacy with meaningful matches, something Mayweather hasn’t done recently.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by backbreaker
I didn't see Cotto's last fight, what happened? He looked damn good everytime I saw him, but again, it's not like I thought he was the Lebron James of Boxing or anything, but looked like he deserved a title shot

Cotto already holds the WBO title (its like the 4th biggest title in boxing, and does mean he is recognised universally as a world champion).

Cotto was rocked badly in his last fight, as he was against Corley. He has also been rocked by a few more lesser opponents.

The man is a good fighter, no doubt. He is strong, has a good punch output and is always in your face. Thus, however means he is also easy to hit, and his chin is definately not on par with a guy of say Castillo standards. Cotto needs to step it up and take on a big boy, he just seems too suspect to do so, and Arum doesnt want to loose one of his meal tickets. Arum can still make good money, fighting cotto against lesser oppoenets, and hence why Cotto is yet to really test himself.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by TheRenegadesOfFunk
Cotto (suspect chin) had one bad round against Corley. After surviving the third round, Cotto walked away with an impressive in the win (TKO Mid).

Cotto and Margarito are very under-rated fighters.
-Miguel Cotto is a very smart disciplined fighter, and one of the best power puncher in his division. He also has a great fan base. I still think he is still 2-3 fights away, but has a great future.
-Antonio Margarito (a fighter everyone is avoiding) is ‘old school fighter'. All-around fighter, good at cutting off the ring, and is a great finisher. He is ready for a big fight.
Both Cotto and Margarito would give Mayweather some trouble (unlike Gatti or Mitchell), or at least a MEANINGFUL MATCH.

Mayweather has a lot fighters to choice to from. Great fighters cement their legacy with meaningful matches, something Mayweather hasn’t done recently.

I agree totally in that Mayweather still has to cement his legacy.

But I would hardly call Cotto or Margarito a good way to do that. NEITHER men have beaten anybody of quality.

Cotto has a chance to take on big fights, because he is a big draw card and fighters know they will make good money fighting him. As explained in my last post however, this is too bigger risk for the reward. He can still make good money due to his large peurto rican fan base by fighting lesser opponents.

Margarito is good, a lot better than Cotto IMHO, similar style to Cotto, but has the chin to match. I think he would give Mayweather some solid problems, due his ability to take a punch and due to the fact he is naturally so much bigger. Margarito is even bigger than Cotto.

Mayweather would take Cotto apart IMHO. Just too much skill, and would end up stopping Cotto at 140. Mayweather punches reasonably well at that weight.

I know styles make fights, but all these following outcomes favour Mayweather over Cotto:

Mayweather took Corley apart and landed on him all night. Cotto only won due to a rediculous stoppage, one that seems very very questionable. Considering a Peurto Rican was reffing the fight (Cotto is Peurto Rican) and the fight WAS IN Peurto Rico. Something that should NEVER happen in boxing. Corley was further, easily able to continue in this bout and nearly had Cotto out.

Mayweather absolutely destroyed Sosa. Cotto stopped him, but not before being rocked and Sosa was landing a hell of a lot of punches on Cotto also.

Cotto could barely manage a win over Ndou, same as Mitchell. Mayweather took Mitchell to the cleaners. Imagine in your honest opinion what Mayweather would do to Ndou! Would be a similar fight to the other Ndou Mayweather fought. An absolute beatdown until the contest was stopped.

Cotto has shown me a lot of good power and pressure against a lot of subpar and smaller opponents. Mayweather being in the welter division and beating down Mitchell, is like Cotto moving upto Middle and doing the same sort of thing to a guy like Felix Sturm. I hardly see that happening.

 

[Reyaj]

Oscar is a great figher in my opinion but you have to look beyond what his record indicates to see this. If you look just by record, he and Mayweather have similar "big win" accomplishments.

Oscar however has won titles in like 5 different weight classes and has been in there with the best opposition that was available to him.

Out of Oscar's 4 losses I only saw him as being defeated twice. He lost to Shane Mosley in their first fight, by 1 round IMHO. It was a very close fight which came down to Round 12, and Shane won that round therefore he pulled out the right. I will offer my opinion on the Mosely vs De La Hoya 2 fight. I think Oscar clearly won this. I didn't even think this fight was close let alone the fact that he lost.

BHOP clearly beat Oscar, although Oscar had he not been stopped by the body shot, he was actually in the fight even though he was losing.

Miguel Cotto is a very good fighter. True he was rocked by Corley, but Corley also rocked Floyd and Zab. Corley is a tough customer for any opposition.

Cotto was definitely rocked in his last fight. He fought a very tough undefeated colombian figher who is not well known but is definitely a force to be reckoned with. They fought a tough close fight, but Cotto showed he had the heart and stamina to stay in there. Cotto can use a few more tuneups before fighting a big name.

 

[CLOONEY]

I agree, Oscar has only lost 2 fights, IMHO. The first one to Mosley, I had him loosing by 2, and the BHOP fight.

His record speaks for itself, you dont need to look beyong it. 6 divisions, faced and beaten more world champs than any other boxer today.

Mayweather was rocked by Corley, but not NEARLY as bad as Cotto. Corley is a tough customer, but a stepping stone, he should not nearly knock you out. And Cotto didnt even beat him. The ref stopped the fight unfairly. Cotto knew he was in a lot of trouble, and hence why he would not give Corley the rematch.

As for Zab, that guy is too erattic. He is on for some fights, others he is not. He is definately a guy who can rise to the big occassion. But once again, his chin is too suspect to allow him to be truly great. Throughout history (other than RJJ) the truly great fighters all possessed one feature! A granite chin!

 

[Reyaj]

Clooney I have a couple of boxing questions I need your input on.



1.) What is the difference between a right cross and a straight right hand?

2.) When you move or use your footwork, should you be on the ball of your feet, or stay flat footed?

3.) When you jab do you get on the ball of any of your feet or stay flat footed?

4.) When you throw any other punch such as a big right hand, or a left hook, should you get on the ball of your feet or stay flat footed?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by Jayer
Clooney I have a couple of boxing questions I need your input on.



1.) What is the difference between a right cross and a straight right hand?

2.) When you move or use your footwork, should you be on the ball of your feet, or stay flat footed?

3.) When you jab do you get on the ball of any of your feet or stay flat footed?

4.) When you throw any other punch such as a big right hand, or a left hook, should you get on the ball of your feet or stay flat footed?

Thanks for all the help.

Right cross, comes accross, you throw it when you are slightly right of your opponenet when circling them. Straight right, throw it straight. haha, just think about it, they are self explanatory.

When you move, you should be on your toes. Always. When jabing, push off your back foot and move your right foot forward. Your front ankle should also twist leftwards a little, as to add futher reach. Your body should be in one fluid motion, as to get a snapping effect from it. Its hard to explain without showing you personally. But you should see some of the guys in your gym doing it right.

Remember, when you throw any big punch, you want to plant your feet as to generate all the power up through your legs. Also push off your back foot. When throwing a left hook for example, the weight of your body should go from your left foot, to your right foot, then when throwing your right, it should transfer back. It should happen naturally if you take the correct stance, plant your feet and know the basics. You will learn the basics at your local boxing gym.

Anyone see Taylor V BHOP? Another exact pick right for me! On a roll now boys! Oh, and go Quartey, the bazooka definately doesnt box as well, but he sure has the power and decent stanima still. Will hold his own against most of the guys around 154-147. Hopefully he fights Mosley once Mosley disposes of Vargas.