Beta Provider

[backbreaker]

Here's my point:
We're talking about Alpha Males and Beta Males here. Alphas are leaders of MEN, not women. Flash back 100 years, before all this feminism business took root. A man was the head of the household. That was the natural way of things. Any man should be head of his household. It is no trick for men to dominate women - women are made to be submissive and to be the weaker vessel. That should be a given, even for a Beta male.
That's why I say being head of a household is not proof of being an alpha male.

All this pickup stuff about being dominant with women is good stuff, but that's not the same thing as being alpha. That's just male/female. PUAs try to emulate alpha characteristics, but that doesn't necessarily make them alpha. To be alpha, you have to be the top male, at least in some way.
That could be the toughest guy in the bar, it could be the teacher in the classroom, could be the quarterback of the football team.

holy **** he gets it. great job.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I can see we need a venn diagram for this:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff113/Rollo_Tomassi_photos/venn-diagram.jpg

Any questions? "Leader of men" requires Alpha. Alpha does not require "Leader of men".

 

[DJDamage]

We're talking about Alpha Males and Beta Males here. Alphas are leaders of MEN, not women.

I disagree partially.

Yes Alphas are the leaders of men but are also the protectors of his women for his future investment.

In every social group of animals (those who are lead by males), the head of the group is usually headed by an Alpha male. The clearest example is a male who is in charge of a pride of lions or a group of gorillas aka silverback. The job of that male is to protect and lead his pride/group, fend off/fight intruders and interlopers, while reserving the right to mate with a large female population within his group in order to spread his seeds.

So in a nutshell if you are not living in a harem with multiple numbers of women whom are baring your children but instead you agree to the confines and barriers placed upon you by a marriage license (not to fvck other women being the big one) then you might be a beta provider.

Westernize version of marriage is anti-Alpha.

Genghis Kahn might have been the ultimate Alpha male the world has ever had.

 

[zekko]

Someone once wrote, Alpha is a position, not a person

Good point, and I agree. A male bear can be the alpha but when a stronger bear comes and defeats him, he's no longer the alpha.

Some people have described something called a "situational alpha". Where a guy is alpha in one position, but not in others. For instance, he'll be the boss at work, but when he plays sports with his friends he has to take a back seat and learn. Supposedly, a "true" alpha will always rise to the top, but almost no one can be the best or the top guy at everything.

"Leader of men" requires Alpha. Alpha does not require "Leader of men".

True, the alpha is just the top male or dominant male.

So in a nutshell if you are not living in a harem with multiple numbers of women whom are baring your children but instead you agree to the confines and barriers placed upon you by a marriage license (not to fvck other women being the big one) then you might be a beta provider.

So you're saying that unless you are living in a harem with multiple women baring your children, you're a beta? I guess that means most alphas are Morman, then.

I don't know, you could be right. I'm not obsessed with these labels. But what you're talking about just isn't practical in Western society, unless you're a very rich guy, or you don't care anything about providing for your children.

I know there are guys who have children with a number of women, and don't end up paying any support, because they don't have any money or they're out doing whatever. I don't see that as being alpha though, just reckless and irresponsible. I'm not comfortable with the idea of defining an alpha strictly by his interactions with women.

 

[DJDamage]

So you're saying that unless you are living in a harem with multiple women baring your children, you're a beta? I guess that means most alphas are Morman, then.

This is a complicated issue.

Part of being an Alpha by definition is not being limited by your options or being placed in such a position where your needs, wants and desires are being curbed.

I suppose if you are a married man with kids, having mistresses on the side would be the ideal scenario for a man. Many of the powerful married men throughout history who chose to marry under westernize standards of value kept mistresses around with or without their wive's knowledge.

I don't know, you could be right. I'm not obsessed with these labels. But what you're talking about just isn't practical in Western society, unless you're a very rich guy, or you don't care anything about providing for your children.

No it isn't practical because western societies through cultural and religious propaganda brainwashing made sure to suppress the masses in order to create a functional peaceful society which is easier to control. It’s the elite in power that always preached to the masses on the values of marriages and doing the right thing, while they had secret orgy parties on the side.

I know there are guys who have children with a number of women, and don't end up paying any support, because they don't have any money or they're out doing whatever. I don't see that as being alpha though, just reckless and irresponsible. I'm not comfortable with the idea of defining an alpha strictly by his interactions with women.

Reckless and irresponsible you say?! Sound's like Alpha traits to me.

I never said that I believe that Alpha is solely defined by the number of women he beds and kids he makes, but it’s a big part of that equation.

 

[backbreaker]

rollo i response the **** out of you but this is one we have to disagree on. my dad has ****ed and i am not exaggerating, well over 100 women, probably close to 200. there is nothing alpha about my dad whatsoever. it's a facade. he let's ***** drive him, it's ruined 3 marriages. what the **** is alpha about that. he gets high fives from his friends and **** but real men (like me) don't really have much respect for him

to say that an alpha male must get ***** is retarded. was George Washington not an alpha male? he was very faithful to his wife. Andrew Jackson was the epitome of alpha, nigga went around shooting people for crying out loud, not many presidents had freaking duels. men feared him, women loved him, not only was he an alpha, his wife was fat and he never cheated on her, and would be brought to physical violence at the sound of anyone talking bad about his rachael. man loved that women dearly.

alphaness has abosulty nothing to do with women. women are a byproduct of being alhia. that's like saying you are rich if you have a Bentley. having a bentey is a byproduct of being rich. it's one of the perks of being rich. Having women is one of the perks of being alpha. no.. let me rephrase that.. having your choice of women is one of the perks of being alpha.

In the wild, the head of the heard is not determined by how many lionesses the male lions have ****ed. it's given to the one that can best lead the pride of lions and ensure the best quality of life overall. him being able to **** all the lionesses is a byproduct of him being so ****ing alpha, briefcase it's going to best ensure the prides future. Breed the best to the best, hope fo the best, old horse racing breeding slogan.

 

[zekko]

No it isn't practical because western societies through cultural and religious propaganda brainwashing made sure to suppress the masses in order to create a functional peaceful society which is easier to control.

All I was saying that it isn't economically practical in this day and age to be dropping children all over the place. In agricultural societies, more children were a plus because you could use them as laborers to work the land. Today having a lot of children is a financial drain.
So I definitely don't think a man has to be having litters of children all over the place in order to be alpha.

Reckless and irresponsible you say?! Sound's like Alpha traits to me.

I disagree that those are traits associated with alpha males. Any individual person could be irresponsible, but I don't think alphas are any more likely to be irresponsible than anyone else. Being alpha implies a certain level of risk taking, but that's not the same thing as being irresponsible, or even reckless necessarily.

Being irresponsible may be a bad boy trait, but I definitely do not believe that bad boy = alpha. A bad boy may or may not be an alpha, and vice versa.

alphaness has abosulty nothing to do with women. women are a byproduct of being alpha

Totally agree.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

rollo i response the **** out of you but this is one we have to disagree on. my dad has ****ed and i am not exaggerating, well over 100 women, probably close to 200. there is nothing alpha about my dad whatsoever. it's a facade. he let's ***** drive him, it's ruined 3 marriages. what the **** is alpha about that. he gets high fives from his friends and **** but real men (like me) don't really have much respect for him.

Your respect (or anyone else's) for your father has nothing to do with whether or not he possess an Alpha mindset. 3 failed marriages and 100+ lays has nothing to do with his having or not having an Alpha mindset. There are many well respected betas who've never had a passing thought of infidelity, or may have 300 lays either with prostitutes or because they possess fame or stunning good looks and women come to him by matter of course.

All perception is biased to some degree. Respect is contingent upon the standards of respect held by the one doing the respecting. Have a look at Corey Worthington here. You'll probably agree that this punk is detestable and unworthy of our respect. That is, except for his almost Zen-like Alpha attitude. Guy's like Corey (and probably your father) infuriate men who have invested their self-worth in the accomplishments of what they think ought to be universally respected and rewarded. So when they're confronted with a natural Alpha being undeservedly rewarded for brazenly acting out of accord with what they think the rules ought to be, they seethe with resentment. The natural response in the face of such an inconsistency is to redefine 'Alpha' to cater to themselves and their accomplishments as "real men" and exclude the perpetrator. The conflict then comes from seeing his new definition of Alpha not being rewarded or even appreciated as well as a natural Alpha attitude and the cycle continues.

I don't know your father personally, but it doesn't matter what your perception of your father is, it's all about his self-understanding. What you think is a facade, he may own wholesale as his personality. He may have wrecked 3 marriages, he may have tapped 100+ women, but he also fathered a "real man" like you. You may express your Alphaness in a different context that your father, but there's no doubt from whence you inherited it. Some of the most driven Alpha Men I know became so from an overwhelming desire not to be like their fathers, and in truth they're really just different sides of the same coin.

 

[vatoloco]

All I was saying that it isn't economically practical in this day and age to be dropping children all over the place. In agricultural societies, more children were a plus because you could use them as laborers to work the land. Today having a lot of children is a financial drain.
So I definitely don't think a man has to be having litters of children all over the place in order to be alpha.

But they do! Look at all the alphas in jail and the number of baby mamas and offspring they have.

Is it economically practical? IDK. Their DNA gets passed on frequently and the State picks up the tab for feeding their offspring while they themselves are not required to significantly contribute. You tell me.

 

[Colossus]

I remember when STR8UP used to post here he was fond of alpha-posturing towards the end of his tenure. In one particular thread we were arguing over the contextual basis of alpha-beta; he contended it was more of an absolute state of mind you develop and I contended it was situational and relative. So I said to him, "Str8up, if I saw you on the street and decided I wanted to manhandle you into a dumpster---simply because I'm bigger and stronger and I dont like you---who is more "alpha", in that moment?"

It's all about CONTEXT, and perception. As Zekko was saying, a man can be an alpha in the office, or in the gym, or on his team; yet still be a complete beta with his wife. Conversely he could have a really healthy, dominant frame with his wife, yet be the lowest man in the totem pole at work. A PUA can alpha-posture his way into (some) women's pants, or he might simply be in a natural alpha position because of excellent looks, charm, money, etc.

Similarly, a guy can be a beta provider in the sense he makes the bacon but his wife runs the show, or he could be an alpha provider in the sense he is still the majority earner but with that also has the respect of his family and has assumed a position of leadership. If a man does not assume that position, the women will either leave, or more likely fill that void herself.

Alpha-Betaisms are at best a limited teaching tool and more often just another form of jerk-off semantics used to stroke egos.

 

[Solomon]

Alpha-Betaisms are at best a limited teaching tool and more often just another form of jerk-off semantics used to stroke egos.

*you Must spread rep points, before you rep Colossus again*

Once again, only in the "community" are guys worried about being "alpha" maybe in real life they are as well but they don't talk like this, not the guys I know who are "alpha" anyway(and I know a few)alpha isn't something you can do with using a couple ****y&funny lines, its gotta be a natural mindset, real alphas aren't worried about being alpha cause they know they are, whether they acknowledge it or not

 

[zekko]

But they do! Look at all the alphas in jail and the number of baby mamas and offspring they have.

I'd say the fact that they're in jail proves that it isn't practical.

 

[vatoloco]

I'd say the fact that they're in jail proves that it isn't practical.

Hahaha, true. You got a good point there.

 

[TizZle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuERSRNKZXM

Alpha? i say so.