Best indicator of interest level: Compliance or Initiation?

[Trump]

A lot of back and forth about a woman’s interest level; one group says if she complaint, she is interested. A smaller group says if she initiates, she is interested.

Personally I think it’s the woman initiating. If she is compliant, she can easily tell the judge she was bored, she was manipulated, she felt sorry for you. If she initiates, she is putting herself out there, she is investing, she is putting her ego on the line, she is saying she cares about you a little bit. That is a much bigger indication of interest level, especially in 2019 in the age of Instagram and facebook and Snapchat and woke feminism.

Even sex doesn’t mean that much to a woman in 2019. But to put effort into contacting the man first? That is huge.

Interested to hear some opinions.

 

[MrWood]

I think it’s the woman initiating

Yes. Or that she is following your lead and the compliance is submissive or caring in nature.
A woman who likes the man in front of her will do anything for his attention, its her nature and it makes her feel like a woman.
The more you allow her to feel like a woman, from your strength of manly character, the more she feels to be herself.

 

[MillionBillionaire]

Initiation... but then I see guys get lost and all of a sudden have no clue what to do when they realize they are getting hit on.

Like It's sooo daym hard to say "Wanna go outside and grab some fresh air?"

 

[EyeBRollin]

Correct. Initiation is the stronger indicator of interest.

 

[Speculator E]

Define initiation.
Some of the way a girl initiate or show IOI are so vague we got a thread going here about it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It depends...some women just won't initiate but have high interest...

 

[bcude]

No, compliance is all you look for in a woman. She will never give compliance to someone she does not see as valuable in some form. Game is just a giant form of a compliance-ladder, from the small things like shaking hands all the way up to sex. The more value she sees in you the more compliance she will give you. Some women with high interest will pursue you, some are more passive and will not, but they will all be open for compliance if she sees value.
Compliance is always a given no matter her "type" as long as she sees value in you. Compliance then is rationalized back as attraction. "I do X for him, that must mean i like him".

Value -> compliance test -> investment
Compliance increases investment which leads to higher chance of more compliance all the way to penis in vagina

Initiating is obviously already high form of interest but if you only look for that you will miss out, a ton. The only thing you should look for is if she's accepting your advances and complying, since you're a man. You lead and go for what you want. Waiting for her to initiate is feminine, it's passive.

 

[Epic Days]

There’s a lot to do about nothing here. Women initiate because they are the the ones that need a man. No sense going into all those things.

Getting woman to comply is a manipulation and you have switched the dynamic. This is a tactic to get her to justify her compliance in her social conditioning. It is short lived and is actually a door to your manipulation by her and your fated fall. The manipulator always sets up his own manipulation.

A woman is basically a nurturer by nature. Her compliance is an automatic function of her natural inclinations. You don’t have to “get it” from her. She gives freely.

If she finds a way to interact with you, or sets it all up for you to interact, compliance will follow.
Some of you guys just aren’t seeing it is all. Men build and tackle the world. Women must present themselves and let you choose. That is the correct dynamic. There’s lots of ways to see, observe and take a vantage of this. Stop thinking and start observing.

 

[synecdoche]

A woman can initiate. But at some point she will encounter your frame. At this point she has to surrender. Otherwise there can be no masculine-feminine dynamic.

The good news is if you are a man of strong resolve, she would be more than happy to let her hair down, relax, surrender to your masculine strength, and bask in your presence.

Most of women’s tests are just to find out if you are for real, or a paper tiger.

She don’t want no paper gangster.

Some women have game and can initiate. But they are still operating from their frame. They are still qualifying you and trying to get you to fit into their paradigm.

This is why I even reject women who pursue me. They aren’t pursuing the real me, but their projection of me.

A woman who pursues the real me is more than happy to let me sit on the throne and dictate the narrative, instead of trying to write the narrative themselves.

TLDR - best indicator is when she shows total admiration for you.....the real you.

So if a woman texted you and invited you for a concert she bought tickets for you would reject her? Or if she would simply ask to get a drink on a saturday night?

 

[Trump]

Compliance is always a given no matter her "type" as long as she sees value in you. Compliance then is rationalized back as attraction. "I do X for him, that must mean i like him".

Disagree.

Compliance doesn’t necessarily mean attraction. Compliance could mean boredom, or manipulation (hey girlfriends, at least some sucker is attracted to me), or politeness.

I would not initiate with a woman I wasn’t attracted to. But if the same women asked me to lunch, I would comply.

Compliance increases investment which leads to higher chance of more compliance all the way to penis in vagina

Initiating is obviously already high form of interest but if you only look for that you will miss out, a ton. The only thing you should look for is if she's accepting your advances and complying, since you're a man. You lead and go for what you want. Waiting for her to initiate is feminine, it's passive.

I think you are confusing the issues.

Compliance doesn’t mean investment. She goes out with you to a movie, a sporting event, yoga, travel. What investment is that? She could have done all that by herself or with her girlfriend.

Yet if she goes out of her way to call or text you, in this day and age, is very important. She is showing society ‘I am putting in the work to call this guy when 100 guys want to be with me.” That means she cares about you a little.

 

[synecdoche]

I don’t think you understood what I meant. What I meant is that sometimes a woman can appear to pursue you. But she’s qualifying you and seeing if you meet her ideal. As if the real you isn’t good enough. You have to match her image of you.

A lot of women do this because they have an ideal version of you in their heads that may or may not have anything to do with the real you.

In a sense, you’ve been objectified.

A lot of women are deluded and lost in their own projections and wonder why they can never find the “right” guy. It’s because that guy in their heads don’t exist.

What some guys do is they supplicate and mold themselves to this ideal image rather than stay true to themselves. And they end up having to keep up the charade throughout the entire relationship.

And when they finally decide to be themselves, the woman thinks they’ve “changed” and dump them anyway.

This is what I meant when I said sometimes I would reject a woman even if she is pursuing. I know what type of frame she is coming from.

When she is trying to mold herself to me, I accept her advances. When she tries to mold me to her frame, I reject her advances.

What I am talking about is advanced frame game and would probably skip over peoples heads. Most guys are happy if they even get a little bit of attention. A lot of guys are more than happy to completely mold themselves to women just for a chance of a little bit of action.

Don’t ever let women objectify you. They don’t like it when we objectify them. So we should never allow them to objectify us.

I accept nothing less than genuine interest from women.

When I sense that a woman is trying to use me for validation, I immediately reject her.

When it comes to women pursuing you, there’s a million shades of it. Some of it is genuine, some of it is not. Your gut should be able to discern which is which.

As the old saying goes, always trust the gut.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[fastlife]

I could give approximately 0 fvcks about initiation. I'm inviting her to my world, not vice versa. And when I'm off doing my thing, I appreciate a girl who understands that and waits for me to reach out to her. The man initiates. The woman complies.

I don't mind a few micro-initiations here and there--like if her friends are pulling her to another bar and she invites you along or if she reaches out post-hook up. But IME girls who initiate the way a guy would are generally more needy, insecure, masculine, and unfulfilled.

 

[Trump]

A woman can initiate. But at some point she will encounter your frame. At this point she has to surrender. Otherwise there can be no masculine-feminine dynamic.

The good news is if you are a man of strong resolve, she would be more than happy to let her hair down, relax, surrender to your masculine strength, and bask in your presence.

Most of women’s tests are just to find out if you are for real, or a paper tiger.

She don’t want no paper gangster.

Some women have game and can initiate. But they are still operating from their frame. They are still qualifying you and trying to get you to fit into their paradigm.

This is why I even reject women who pursue me. They aren’t pursuing the real me, but their projection of me.

A woman who pursues the real me is more than happy to let me sit on the throne and dictate the narrative, instead of trying to write the narrative themselves.

TLDR - best indicator is when she shows total admiration for you.....the real you.

You say compliance is number 1, and you reject women who pursue you. - OK

You say it’s woman who seduces the man - not sure I agree, but OK

So ideally the man should call or text the women to enter his frame, and once she has entered his frame, he should expect her to seduce him?

Any woman with half a brain would say “I didn’t call you, you called me, you show me what you got, you entertain me.”

One of the 48 Laws of Power is have your enemy come to you. If the woman contacts the man first, the man has the power, he controls the dynamic. If the man contacts the woman first, she has the power, she controls the dynamic.

In my experience when the man initiates, his ducks better be in a row because any misstep, it’s over. And alot of men aren’t the type to get another girl in 17 seconds. Heck, Prince Harry married a divorced 36 year 6/10 who has been naked on national tv.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

I don’t think you understood what I meant. What I meant is that sometimes a woman can appear to pursue you. But she’s qualifying you and seeing if you meet her ideal. As if the real you isn’t good enough. You have to match her image of you.

A lot of women do this because they have an ideal version of you in their heads that may or may not have anything to do with the real you.

In a sense, you’ve been objectified.

A lot of women are deluded and lost in their own projections and wonder why they can never find the “right” guy. It’s because that guy in their heads don’t exist.

What some guys do is they supplicate and mold themselves to this ideal image rather than stay true to themselves. And they end up having to keep up the charade throughout the entire relationship.

And when they finally decide to be themselves, the woman thinks they’ve “changed” and dump them anyway.

This is what I meant when I said sometimes I would reject a woman even if she is pursuing. I know what type of frame she is coming from.

When she is trying to mold herself to me, I accept her advances. When she tries to mold me to her frame, I reject her advances.

What I am talking about is advanced frame game and would probably skip over peoples heads. Most guys are happy if they even get a little bit of attention. A lot of guys are more than happy to completely mold themselves to women just for a chance of a little bit of action.

Don’t ever let women objectify you. They don’t like it when we objectify them. So we should never allow them to objectify us.

I accept nothing less than genuine interest from women.

When I sense that a woman is trying to use me for validation, I immediately reject her.

When it comes to women pursuing you, there’s a million shades of it. Some of it is genuine, some of it is not. Your gut should be able to discern which is which.

As the old saying goes, always trust the gut.

Similar experience although I don't reject the fantasy projections. If a woman wants to project her fantasy and all I have to do is sit back and enjoy being treated like a god I'll do so as long as it suits me.

Eventually she realizes that I don't conform exactly to her fantasy. She'll either try to check or threaten leaving. The only option I give her is to submit and conform to my frame or leave.

Discerning genuine from projections isn't easy imo. When being treated like a king how do you know?

 

[Epic Days]

Discerning genuine from projections isn't easy imo. When being treated like a king how do you know?

This is something the BPD boys need to look at as well.

 

[MountainSlide]

Initiation is suggestive of interest but not necessarily. If a girl is bored she may be sitting at home texting and enjoying the validation she receives from all the guys texting with her.

IMO the best gauge for interest is her willingness to make plans and meet up with you. Once together you look for the body language that shows interest. Thinking compliance or initiating are good indicators of interest is ridiculous and can have you self deluding or over investing in someone who has little to no interest. (Using compliance and forcing her to initiate can build attraction though)

 

[Trump]

No, compliance is all you look for in a woman. She will never give compliance to someone she does not see as valuable in some form. Game is just a giant form of a compliance-ladder, from the small things like shaking hands all the way up to sex. The more value she sees in you the more compliance she will give you. Some women with high interest will pursue you, some are more passive and will not, but they will all be open for compliance if she sees value.

I would have to disagree.

Compliance does not necessarily mean value. Compliance could mean to eliminate boredom, to show off to friends, to feed the ego, to have new experiences, to keep you in her back pocket. She was going to the thing anyway by herself, so why not do it with a guy? She could use the company.

Yet if the women goes out of her way to initiate with you, she obviously thinking about the specific man as she as several hundred other suitors.

If a girl you weren’t attracted to had 2 tickets to something you like and called you to go with her, would you go?

If you had to 2 tickets to the same event, would you phone the same girl and ask her to go?

Makes a world of difference.

Compliance is always a given no matter her "type" as long as she sees value in you. Compliance then is rationalized back as attraction. "I do X for him, that must mean i like him".

Value -> compliance test -> investment
Compliance increases investment which leads to higher chance of more compliance all the way to penis in vagina

Again I would use the analogy;

If a woman you weren’t attracted to phoned you and said “let’s go a trip to Mexico.” Would you go?

If you had a vacation and could go with anyone, would you phone the same women and ask her to go?

A man would do stuff with any girl just to do stuff, yet he would initiate with a girl he was attracted to.

Initiating is obviously already high form of interest but if you only look for that you will miss out, a ton. The only thing you should look for is if she's accepting your advances and complying, since you're a man. You lead and go for what you want. Waiting for her to initiate is feminine, it's passive.

If the man is always initiating and leading, she has no investment in him. ‘OK, I got nothing to do, he’s there, I’ll go.”. Sets a bad precedence.

You are also giving her ammunition to destroy you later. Suppose you initiate with one girl 25 times, and she complies each time. You have shown the society and the judge how desperately in love you are with this one girl. You have also given her cause to come at you later for money.

Maybe if we were in the Middle East where the man has the Power, it could be different, but in North America, where it’s 50/50, it should be 50/50 on the initiation.

 

[logicallefty]

<--- If she lets you pull down them panties and spank dat' bare azz like Bugs spanking Lola's in my avatar, she is interested!

 

[The Duke]

A lot of back and forth about a woman’s interest level; one group says if she complaint, she is interested. A smaller group says if she initiates, she is interested.

Personally I think it’s the woman initiating. If she is compliant, she can easily tell the judge she was bored, she was manipulated, she felt sorry for you. If she initiates, she is putting herself out there, she is investing, she is putting her ego on the line, she is saying she cares about you a little bit. That is a much bigger indication of interest level, especially in 2019 in the age of Instagram and facebook and Snapchat and woke feminism.

Even sex doesn’t mean that much to a woman in 2019. But to put effort into contacting the man first? That is huge.

Interested to hear some opinions.

It all depends on the woman. Women are not black and white.....I've reminded you of this before! Both show interest.

In my younger years I would seek out women who initiated and solely go by that. This is a form of more direct communication. As a result I missed out on a few that subscribed to the school that a woman shouldn't initiate to show interest. That would deem her too forward.

Later I realized there are some that show interest by being compliant. The types that keep saying yes to going out are also conveying interest. I know @BeExcellent subscribes to this. I've had girls I called a few times and went out with maybe twice that i gave up on because I wasn't getting enough feedback making me realize they were all that interested. I'd quit talking to them, and it never failed, 10 days later I got a text "hey stranger, I never heard from you again".

So be a man of action, as long as they keep agreeing to your plans and not showing any flakiness, that means they are interested. Keep marching forward.

Smart girls with solid interest know better than to say no to a guy that she see's value in. She doesn't want you to scoop up some other girl. Women have told me this many times.

I think your most naturally feminine women are more passive when it comes to conveying interest.

 

[bcude]

Trump,

Read my post again, and what @fastlife and @Howiestern wrote. Maybe it becomes less confusing then.

You're asking what the best indicator of interest is. All you need to focus on is if you're interested in HER and if she's complying with you.
"Eliminate boredom, to show off to friends, to feed the ego, to have new experiences, to keep you in her back pocket. " Still means she sees value, as you said yourself. Why would she do that with a loser when she has so many options.

No i don't hang out with women i'm not attracted to, why would i?

You seem to have missed that the man is the action taker, he pursues what he wants. BeExcellent is a good example of a woman who's passive in her nature and complies with a man of value, but never initiates. One example is enough to prove the point.

It's not me you're disagreeing with, you're disagreeing with the whole fabric of game.