Best indicator of interest level: Compliance or Initiation?

[nicksaiz65]

For starters, I've cautioned him about what resources he's looking into based on 1.) What worked for me 2.) What matches up with my experiences and 3.) What's free. Sex sells and I'm sure PUA marketing stuff has set a lot of weirdos doing weird sh1t. To me, almost everything comes back to mindset. That's where I started and that's where things come back to. I've written about that stuff in-depth here:

• https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/stagnation-at-sosuave-when-frame-is-weakness.233309/
• https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/create-your-own-confidence-how-to-be-you.233590/

In the past, I've taken more than a handful of guys under my wings. These are guys who saw how I lived my life, asked me for help, and were generally solid people. So much of my work with them was just teaching them how to get in touch with how they really felt (vs. how they thought other people wanted them to feel) and how to speak and act out their truths unapologetically. None of them ever got remotely close to being too aggressive or too sexual. It was all I could do to get them to add just an ounce of that into their outward personalities lol.

But all of them were able to improve massively. My hardest case--and he was starting from a sense of inferiority and headfvckery that only the most pathetic posters in SS history can match--never pulled top shelf. Flat out. I would've had to devote my entire life to trying to work with him and that wasn't a sacrifice that I was willing to make. BUT within a couple months he could go up and talk to girls. Mostly friendly, but they liked his presence well enough--and he felt like a god lol. Just having that possibility opened up for him totally changed his perception of himself. He became a much more valued piece of the social circle where I met him. And last I saw him he seemed pretty happy, confident, and he had a girlfriend who seems like a good match. That, in my mind, is a huge win.

As far as PUA 'tactics,' things like breaking rapport and teasing girls are natural masculine behaviors. Physicality is a natural masculine behavior. Every little boy has that in him. But then school happens, church happens, parents happen, media happens. The reason guys need to practice breaking rapport is because they don't know how to do it and they've been suppressing that part of themselves. When you do it and you see that it works and that it feels 'right,' then it's less about technique and more peeling back a layer of social conditioning to get back in touch with who you are. Qualifying/disqualifying girls is an essential part of being a man. But very few guys feel enough entitlement/abundance to actively do that. But if they practice it and see it works, then it becomes their right as a man to exercise that.

Another issue is that people see the world through broken lenses. For example, when I walk into a venue I can see all kinds of green lights. Or if I talk to a girl, I can tell if she likes me (or if I should bounce) almost instantly--and I usually know why. Most guys disqualify themselves way too easily and don't even see the green lights girls are putting out there. The only reason I'm able to do that is because I exposed myself to those situations over and over. And I made situations work that shouldn't have ever worked from the lenses most people see the world through. Sure, I fvcked up and made an azz out of myself more than a handful of times. That's the benefit of the meat markets vs. practicing new behaviors with girls at work or school.

But if I'm putting my advice out there, it's important for me to match it to the audience (as much as I can through a computer screen). Like I basically go out and just say a bunch of random sh1t most of the time, break all kinds of social norms, and do a bunch of stuff that shouldn't work. Or I can go out and barely talk to anybody and still do fine. But 4 years ago, if I went out and barely talked to anybody then the only girls who were going to come up to me were the crazies. Or if I said some off the wall sh1t sometimes people would get all riled up. So I agree it's about dominance, but achieving dominance has all these little baby steps most people will have to take before it becomes anything more than a put on.

Before you can own a mindset you have to earn it. And that means testing it and having people challenge it. And maybe even having to rethink certain aspects of it. The younger you are, the easier that is. You still have time.

As far as our other disagreements, I still stand by a lot of what I've learned from my experiences that go against a lot of the SS dogmas:

• I still prefer initiating vs. having the girls initiate on me--this is something I've been through enough that I don't foresee me changing my views on what I've said about that ITT.
• I don't care about girls flaking or not texting me back--if I want a girl, then that's 100% on me. Plus, I'm a generous person and if she's too dumb to realize a good thing then I'll give her another shot if I feel like it, no sweat. I don't expect 100% of everybody to realize how awesome I am vs. a 10 min to 1 hr convo--and I've had plenty of those girls turn around. (That said, I'm usually a one or two nights guy tops--everything is very casual so she doesn't necessarily have to be a quality person, just a good time).
• I don't care that much about demographic or wavelength--I feel like there's different parts of my personality that I like to express with different types of girls. For instance, I'm not a vapid party dude, but swear to god every couple months I just want a vapid party girl to have a good time with. Sometimes I want something more medium term and I'll go for really sweet, high quality girls. So on and so on. I've had too many good times with too many different types of girls to limit myself to one flavor.
• I'm generally very live-and-let-live and laidback--I hold myself to very high standards. For the people around me? I enjoy them for who they are. If I ever decide I want to settle down and start a family then I'll judge the girl mercilessly lol. But for now, I only next girls when or if I feel like it.

Once again, I completely endorse. That makes total sense.

 

[nicksaiz65]

But guys, at the end of the day, aren't these just different methods of getting to the same result? We're all just trying to get on our purpose and deal with our women issues here. Not to be flippant, and you guys know I love analysis, but I'm starting to feel like we're taking different routes to end up at the same destination lol. Maybe one isn't even superior to the other?

 

[Spaz]

As for women choosing me vs. going after them?

Other experiences may vary, but here's what I've experienced so far in my life. If a girl shows interest in you, that's great. But I don't think that should be your only strategy, waiting on the chick to choose you. Some of the girls that I've hooked up with, I never got an IOI from them at all. I just walked up to them because I thought they were cute, and I started talking. I was able to get with them from there. If I had waited on an IOI that never would have happened.

So my answer is basically "por que no los dos" lol

Form/flow over substance.

That's what u r learning and which is harmful for you, long term.

But I'll post further on this once I've settled in nicely back in my crib.

I'll profile each and every poster here, I'll show you their futures and also where they stand today - despite what they seem to project.

Don't worry abt them, if they dare post then they must also dare to be challenged.

After all, this is for ur benefit nick.

 

[Spaz]

This thread has turned from a rational debate among men into a circle jerk between at least two posters who are emotionally invested in wanting to be right rather than wanting to help.

I keep seeing pages upon pages of the same thing peppered with attempts to provoke, which is pretty sad. Meanwhile, @nicksaiz65 has posted one of the more rational and logical arguments, without prejudice.

Stormrider, assuming you're not the same user as Spazz, there should be no reason for you to be licking his nuts like that. I don't really read his posts anymore because he writes like a 12 year old girl and doesn't offer anything of substance; he's a troll who serves up sad attempts at insults rather than useful information and also a very weak man who would get eaten alive in any of the arenas in which I've excelled and continue to thrive.

Now earlier in the thread one of your more specious arguments was that Be Excellent agreed with me so ergo I must be wrong. This is a very irrational and feminine argument. It shows a lack of knowledge of the female mind, first of all - they don't always side with what's feminine but with what wins them favor. More importantly it's irrelevant, like blaming the president because white supremacists vote for him. You also engaged her repeatedly and then hamstered over her while I ignored her.

But the truth is if you're going to play that game, I'd rather have a woman in my corner than the two a$$ clowns you have supporting you on this thread, who not long ago vociferously defended a pedophile rapist and laid blame on children for being molested. This wasn't just one errant post but a series of posts where they dug in and held firm in their beliefs (and of course got the thread locked because they were so bonkers).

These are the guys you've been virtually making out with in this thread when you weren't posting War & Peace five times a day about how right you are. And remember I conceded that maybe you were right, but you seem bent on something other than mature, rational debate. I've ignored your straw men and attempts at soft trolling until now, because I thought it was cute that you were trying to poke everyone into fighting you and I'm not really into internet fights. I couldn't care less who thinks I'm right or wrong, it's a fukking seduction forum, not a nuclear reactor. But it appears that some men of very sound mind and happy, zen disposition agree with me, while some who traditionally supplant wild feminine emotion for logic and who are of sad, perverted morals are supporting you. Get mad if you want, I'm just reporting what happened.

I recommend you lighten up...you don't sound like a man who's at peace with himself sufficiently to attract women and you're going to cast doubt in the minds of readers here as well. When people see a guy posting long diatribe after long diatribe, insisting over and over again he's right, they're bound to wonder how he handles women.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt one final time to come at me with reason and coolness. Anything else will be dismissed summarily. Although I really don't know if I'll care anymore as this thread bores me now.

Any attempts by Spaz or anyone else to troll will continue to be deemed an act of desperate supplication to his better, henceforth and throughout the known universe.

Strange how some people ends up attacking Spaz profile picture, or the number of posts, or the number of likes, or the number of followers one has.

Now even the name Spazz.

Seems u r afraid to challenge me directly...

But don't worry, I shall use you as an example for nicksaiz65.

Supplication, indeed a worthy topic.

Everything that you've done, all those accomplishments you're mention in here, were actually done with the intent to gain females favour is it not?

From moving from the states to was it Spain just because of women?

To ur dancing lessons, just for women?

To ur taking up language lessons, just to meet women?

To approaching multiple women at multiple venues just to gain some hope that you might get some pity fvck.

I'm sure there's more.

Everything you ever did, was for women.

Perhaps you feel proud of it.

Well you certainly seem to be, even, sweet wording it to make it sound masculine.

But it was still done FOR women.

A servant gets paid to do work.

But you PAY just to do the work.

And you dare come online to teach young men to be just like you?

Do you seriously expect someone like me to keep quiet?

 

[Spaz]

@nicksaiz65

In the real world, a man's value grows in tandem with the amount of work he has put into HIMSELF.

It other words, his sum total or what people here call frame.

A man's enduring attractiveness comes from his value.

The greater ur value the greater ur attractiveness to women.

Why is that so? I don't really know why but you can see it all around you, everyday you come across men or boys with women who cling endlessly on some losers arm.

To you they are some idiotic loser.

To her, he's a great man or at least has the potential to be great.

Let's list a few examples,

1) A jobless man who's famously known in some area of ur city as the greatest pool player there.

He hustle's to earn some bucks.

But he always has some chick somewhere, easily.

2) Another useless uneducated mechanic, dirty with grease, perhaps an unkempt hair and lives in some run down part of ur city.

But he's known as the greatest mechanic in that area.

Everyone, from rich to poor will defer to him when it comes engines.

Racing buffs will call him a God.

And he too will have women coming for him.

If you like, choose the worst loser job a man can be in, and I will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt that he has women chasing him instead of him chasing women.

Of those 2 men I mentioned above, they both are at the top is it not?

Maybe not the whole world, but within their sphere of influence they are the GREATEST!

THE BEST.

And within that sphere, amongst those many people are women who admires them, who constantly tries their best to win his favor.

Open ur eyes, it's all around you, men like them.

Every single women, despite whatever is being projected, wants to be a Queen or at the very least a princess. It's their dream.

Don't tell me you don't know this..

Since its their dream, they will chase around men like those I've mentioned.

In every social strata, from low to high, there are women searching for Kings.... the Greatest man.

But those men put in the effort, their purpose was to be the greatest, they know their latent talents and hone it to perfection.

When a man is the greatest, he walks differently, talks differently, looks at people differently etc...he generates a vibe that can only come when one has attained greatness.

A lowly mechanic can even tell off a millionaire and that man will listen with respect.

That's what greatness does.

From greatness, or from substance, ur form appears - that vibe, that look that gives pleasure to women, the strides you make when you walk... everything comes from ur substance.

You must be thinking that u r just starting out so how the fvck can you be the greatest?

I'm not asking you to be a millionaire.

I'm merely asking you to find ur inherent talent, something that you're already naturally good at and hone it to perfection.

And when u r the greatest.

No matter what is it, women will chase.

Even murderers that's been caught and are incarcerated has women chasing after them, some even offered marriage...begging those men to impregnate them.

Of course those men must meet a certain criteria - The Greatest!

So grow ur substance and from there the form you so desperately want to learn will flow out naturally.

Now u r learning form or flow over substance.

Those men who are teaching all those ABC steps or form....well, they are even worse off then a jobless pool man when it comes to having women's admiration.

Because they need to stoop real low...to even have a chance.

Do you want to end up like those men?

Some in their 40's...50's.

Chasing...

 

[nicksaiz65]

@nicksaiz65

In the real world, a man's value grows in tandem with the amount of work he has put into HIMSELF.

It other words, his sum total or what people here call frame.

A man's enduring attractiveness comes from his value.

The greater ur value the greater ur attractiveness to women.

Why is that so? I don't really know why but you can see it all around you, everyday you come across men or boys with women who cling endlessly on some losers arm.

To you they are some idiotic loser.

To her, he's a great man or at least has the potential to be great.

Let's list a few examples,

1) A jobless man who's famously known in some area of ur city as the greatest pool player there.

He hustle's to earn some bucks.

But he always has some chick somewhere, easily.

2) Another useless uneducated mechanic, dirty with grease, perhaps an unkempt hair and lives in some run down part of ur city.

But he's known as the greatest mechanic in that area.

Everyone, from rich to poor will defer to him when it comes engines.

Racing buffs will call him a God.

And he too will have women coming for him.

If you like, choose the worst loser job a man can be in, and I will prove it beyond a reasonable doubt that he has women chasing him instead of him chasing women.

Of those 2 men I mentioned above, they both are at the top is it not?

Maybe not the whole world, but within their sphere of influence they are the GREATEST!

THE BEST.

And within that sphere, amongst those many people are women who admires them, who constantly tries their best to win his favor.

Open ur eyes, it's all around you, men like them.

Every single women, despite whatever is being projected, wants to be a Queen or at the very least a princess. It's their dream.

Don't tell me you don't know this..

Since its their dream, they will chase around men like those I've mentioned.

In every social strata, from low to high, there are women searching for Kings.... the Greatest man.

But those men put in the effort, their purpose was to be the greatest, they know their latent talents and hone it to perfection.

When a man is the greatest, he walks differently, talks differently, looks at people differently etc...he generates a vibe that can only come when one has attained greatness.

A lowly mechanic can even tell off a millionaire and that man will listen with respect.

That's what greatness does.

From greatness, or from substance, ur form appears - that vibe, that look that gives pleasure to women, the strides you make when you walk... everything comes from ur substance.

You must be thinking that u r just starting out so how the fvck can you be the greatest?

I'm not asking you to be a millionaire.

I'm merely asking you to find ur inherent talent, something that you're already naturally good at and hone it to perfection.

And when u r the greatest.

No matter what is it, women will chase.

Even murderers that's been caught and are incarcerated has women chasing after them, some even offered marriage...begging those men to impregnate them.

Of course those men must meet a certain criteria - The Greatest!

So grow ur substance and from there the form you so desperately want to learn will flow out naturally.

Now u r learning form or flow over substance.

Those men who are teaching all those ABC steps or form....well, they are even worse off then a jobless pool man when it comes to having women's admiration.

Because they need to stoop real low...to even have a chance.

Do you want to end up like those men?

Some in their 40's...50's.

Chasing...

So stay on my purpose/passion huh? I'll agree with you there.

For me this year, here's my purpose:
1.) Graduate college this year in Computer Science with above a 3.0
2.) I absolutely love music. I love playing it, I love writing it. I want to be a certain caliber of musician by the time I get out of school.
3.) Whip myself into the best shape of my life. I've been very consistent in the gym lately and I want to keep it that way.

I'm sure this will shift over time but right now this is my Top 3. So I definitely have my purpose. But these are my main non-women related goals that get me out of bed in the morning. I agree that it's very important that you stay on your purpose.

 

[Spaz]

So stay on my purpose/passion huh? I'll agree with you there.

For me this year, here's my purpose:
1.) Graduate college this year in Computer Science with above a 3.0
2.) I absolutely love music. I love playing it, I love writing it. I want to be a certain caliber of musician by the time I get out of school.
3.) Whip myself into the best shape of my life. I've been very consistent in the gym lately and I want to keep it that way.

I'm sure this will shift over time but right now this is my Top 3. So I definitely have my purpose. But these are my main non-women related goals that get me out of bed in the morning. I agree that it's very important that you stay on your purpose.

R you anywhere near being the best in those 3 fields?

Since u r in school, what type of boys gets chased by girls?

Of course it's the best type right?

Yeah, the best debater, the best runner, the best basketball player, the best karate-do, the best computer geek, the best drummer, etc etc etc.

The list is endless if you really think about it, just in ur school.