Being a Don Juan comes at a price

[ChristopherColumbus]

This alpha stuff is a seasoning not the meal.

Ha! just said the same thing in another post....

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Those kinds of women are likely better wife material in the context of being traditional and loyal yes. However the issue is typically women with strong moral and religious beliefs are not going to want to settle down with a guy who before meeting her had casual flings with tons of sl*ts.
The women you describe set the bar very high for the type of man they would choose to marry so it's a catch 22 for guys who want to mess around with lots of girls, and then when they tire of that decide roll over and think they will land into the waiting arms of a virtuous moral woman.

Yes, a good point. We should 'mirror' what we want in a woman. If you want casual sex, then you will become a player. If you want a loyal wife/ partner, then you will develop that kind of character yourself. What stops guys from doing this... when near all men's greater desire is for intimacy? An out of control libido. This was always the true significance of morality, ethics and religion... not the ideology, but the practicality. We learn to overcome our own base desires, not in repressing them [as the Puritans and Protestants did] but in sublimating them to higher ideals.

 

[btownbuck2012]

@captain55 you're putting too much emphasis in sex. Woman don't value it like we do. More than once I've had girls have hot sex with me the day they left me. I guess because they crave emotional stimulation they get off on the Bitter sweet quality

This. Women are biologically incapable of desiring sex as frequently as men.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yes, a good point. We should 'mirror' what we want in a woman. If you want casual sex, then you will become a player. If you want a loyal wife/ partner, then you will develop that kind of character yourself. What stops guys from doing this... when near all men's greater desire is for intimacy? An out of control libido. This was always the true significance of morality, ethics and religion... not the ideology, but the practicality. We learn to overcome our own base desires, not in repressing them [as the Puritans and Protestants did] but in sublimating them to higher ideals.

They're going to play a loyal dude. All of em want a player. "Good" women would want to lock him down and get him to change.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

They're going to play a loyal dude. All of em want a player. "Good" women would want to lock him down and get him to change.

The players [game is really a feminine business] will play the players. The 'good' woman will look to lock a good man down.

What's missing today, in both red and blue pill versions of reality, is a conception of the Good Life.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

The player's [game is really a feminine business] will play the players. The 'good' woman will look to lock a good man down.

All the player h0es I knew was cool being side chicks and helping a guy get over on his gf or wife. If it was someone they knew the could count on, they would use that type. I'm talking about "hot chicks".

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

All the player h0es I knew was cool being side chicks and helping a guy get over on his gf or wife. If it was someone they knew the could count on, they would use that type. I'm talking about "hot chicks".

I find the 'hot' chick unattractive - the caked on make up, the entitled attitude, the obsession with social media, the dressing up like porn stars. These are naturally screened out straight away because they are unattractive.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I find the 'hot' chick unattractive - the caked on make up, the entitled attitude, the obsession with social media, the dressing up like porn stars. These are naturally screened out straight away because they are unattractive.

You want a decent looking one that can do something for you and has brains...

 

[AJ84]

Lol, this is why Derek Jeter married a 23 year old right? You don’t think the guy could get any 30 year old on the planet?

She was 26 when they got married.

 

[BeExcellent]

Women are biologically incapable of desiring sex as frequently as men.

Not so fast. I got turned down in my marriage because I wanted it MORE often than my husband. And I think I only turned him down a handful of times in over 15 years being hitched. Some women have high libido. And my ex had plenty of "want to"...I just had even more. Not that I'm complaining mind you, but if I'm with a man I'm genuinely attracted to? He's never going to complain about being declined.

Find a woman who is REALLY into you and you'll likely find the same thing.

 

[Dash Riprock]

This is VERY true. I can state numerous examples of women who had LTRs and married guys they were friends with first. Being a DJ and Alpha aside, many relationship experts say if you want a successful marriage, marry someone you were actually friends with first.

There was a girl I dated (yes, we had s*ex) in WI back in the 90's. We got along GREAT. She was maybe a HB7 at the time. I was young and very c*ocky and thought I could do better, and I did looks-wise, but never found anyone with that platonic chemistry. She came to visit me in Colorado in the late 90's, even stayed with me. We went out with another couple. When Tammy, my friend, went to the restroom, the other girl looks at me in dismay and says, "What's wrong with her!? Why aren't you interested??" I told her we were only friends, which, as hot as she was then, I truly felt. We stayed in touch and friends until a few years ago. She married someone after only knowing them for 3 months in the early 2000's. I know she wasn't happy for a long time. We've lost touch the last few years. I sometimes think about her and wonder, if I were the marrying type (which I don't think I am), if her and me could have made it work.

If I had one that got away, it was her.

 

[BeExcellent]

However, if you want to keep chicks around long-term, you will need to learn how to build a strong emotional connection

This is the important thing IMO to get back to. What the OP is talking about, besides being perceived as a "player" really has to do with this principle. To do this you have to have the right woman.

Women often times *think* they want a player because they want what everyone else wants. And so you'll have all these women who are open to the player, some who unapologetically throw themselves at the player. But the player archetype is in many ways misunderstood. Women think they will keep such a man with freaky sex (and they may, for a while) or by being drop dead beautiful (again - this works for a while) or by having a hot fit body or some combination of the above. But what lots of women fail to grasp is that the player has been there, done that and has seen so many beautiful faces and so many tight asses and hot bodies that this becomes a "given". That's baseline to the player. You have to be pretty and hot to warrant his attention, but there has to be more there to keep his attention long term. Players have seen it all and they get bored quickly. Its so easy for them to get another pretty face and hot body that those things actually lose value because they become routine to the player.

What isn't routine? A beautiful/hot woman who is sweet, genuine, and who has an innocence to her nature. And if she is humble and intelligent and has a sense of humor & fun? That is who the player will fall for. Why? Because the player can relax and be a human being again. He doesn't have to be "The Player" with her. She sees behind the facade and sees the man who is really there. And suddenly the player feels seen for being something besides the player archetype. His authentic self is no longer invisible.

Too many women are serving their own egos by going after the player archetype. They want the cache of "He's with me", "Look what I have" etc. These are women who get extremely jealous if he talks to anyone else and they get clingy and needy and demanding and they drive him away. The reason is that he was an accessory to their ego...just as their hotness or beauty was an accessory to his ego. It's external validation out the wazoo.

I've been called a "10" recently to my face by a millionaire gentleman any number of women would be delighted to have. That's very flattering of course but its not who I am, its just what I look like. I'm dating a player now. He knows he is, he owns that reputation, and at first he tried to down play it to me. I told him just to own it and drive on. He thinks I'm a serious "Dork" and he tells me so, which is good because underneath all that playa bravado? He's a bigger dork than I am. He doesn't like the fact that women want him for the wrong reasons, although he loves to bask in their attention when he feels like it and he knows how to use all that to his sexual advantage. But its become hollow because its shallow. He's more than the archetype role that he is so accustomed to filling. At the end of the day he wants depth but he isn't sure how to go about that.

Because he's been emotionally closed off for some time it has been challenging for him to open up and connect as a human being. He gets insecure, he gets a bit wobbly; uncertain. Sometimes at one of the venues we frequent (where we know everyone) I'll get pulled aside and asked by a mutual acquaintance for advice about women...and if I disappear for too long (an arbitrary length of time), bouncers will come over and say the BF is looking for me...wants to know where I am...and I'll reappear to find him surrounded by women but missing me. All these women paying him all this attention for their own validation and yet almost none of them seeing who he really is and what he really needs. I understand him and I did from Day 1. And he could read that I "got it" where he was concerned. I've dated the player type all my life since my first serious boyfriend, and the guys without that edge bore me, no matter how handsome, no matter what great people they are. I know I need someone with a certain vibe and I find very few men with the traits I'm drawn to, but at the same time, when I find a man who 'clicks', its as natural to interact with him as breathing.

And that is the hard part for men who get jaded by being a player. These guys can recognize when they find a decent woman or someone who is MORE than just a pretty face and a hot body, but then what? What if they have stunted their ability to reveal themselves with depth emotionally? What if they have been too fixated on SEX SEX SEX to realize that meaning is found in something MORE than just sex? That is when the disillusionment sets in earnestly and these guys are somewhat lost again for a bit.

Honestly I'm not sure how to tell a man how to navigate those waters. I can recognize it...I'm navigating those waters with someone now 9 months in...but every man reaches this point from an individual place, and its an individual solution I'm afraid.

All I can tell you is keep your eyes out for a woman who enjoys you but doesn't NEED you, for a woman who has high enough self esteem that she can take or leave you with kindness, because as scary and uncertain as that will seem, that is the only sort of woman a player is ever going to respect, and that is the only sort of woman a player will ever take seriously and who can check his ego where it needs checking - and sometimes the ego needs checking. And you'll only love someone who you respect, just as a woman will only love you when she respects you, the reverse is also true. Not easy, but true.

And if you can get to that place, you'll be able to navigate relationships by turning toward your partner for solutions rather than away, and you'll begin to establish the deep trust and the intimacy that we all crave as human beings. You'll experience love if you can reach that point rather than infatuation. That is valuable and cannot be easily replaced by the next pretty face/hot body that comes along. That is what causes a relationship to strengthen rather than falter over time. And it ain't for sissies.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Not so fast. I got turned down in my marriage because I wanted it MORE often than my husband. And I think I only turned him down a handful of times in over 15 years being hitched. Some women have high libido. And my ex had plenty of "want to"...I just had even more. Not that I'm complaining mind you, but if I'm with a man I'm genuinely attracted to? He's never going to complain about being declined.

Find a woman who is REALLY into you and you'll likely find the same thing.

Gee wiz so you’re telling me if I find a woman who “REALLY” likes me everything will be ok huh? Thanks!!

 

[greatsnake]

I've thought about this as well, but it all depends on what side of the coin you want to be on as well. I mean, betas/guys in the friend zone pay a huge price for being in that position.

 

[greatsnake]

Gee wiz so you’re telling me if I find a woman who “REALLY” likes me everything will be ok huh? Thanks!!

I do agree. My sister's best friend is really into me and I'm sure there is potential with me and her, but she understands that good things take time to develop. I've spoken to her about my ways and I feel fine and comfortable talking to her about it and she feels the same way

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

I've seen the before. A girl is perfectly happy with her nice beta bf but her slvtty friends degrade it.

This is also jealousy on the part of the sl*tty chicks IMO. All the girls who have told me they're into "bad boys" and do casual sex all the time tend to be kind of mentally unstable and low on self-esteem compared to more conventional girls who have steady bfs.

Of course that's not what pop culture portrays in their modern "feminist" environment - instead it's "strong" for a chick to bang loads of guys, even if she secretly longs for a man who's more than a walking dildo.

Often these girls split with their BFs and try the carousel for a few weeks and realise that actually it kinda sucks.

(I don't think provision is necessarily "Beta" btw. I think it's perfectly Alpha if the guy isn't getting jerked around...it's about setting your own limits and boundaries).

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I've seen the before. A girl is perfectly happy with her nice beta bf but her slvtty friends degrade it.

All the fvcking time! Dude might not be beta, but responsible and reliable . Misery loves company. They won't have their friend leaving their control and breaking rank .

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Lol, this is why Derek Jeter married a 23 year old right? You don’t think the guy could get any 30 year old on the planet?

Tyler from RSD made the Derek Jeter example. Tyler believes the best way to get a great girlfriend is to spend at least four years completely immersed in the game. When you can have 20 girlfriends then you have enough game to choose 1!

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Gee wiz so you’re telling me if I find a woman who “REALLY” likes me everything will be ok huh? Thanks!!

This is the important thing IMO to get back to. What the OP is talking about, besides being perceived as a "player" really has to do with this principle. To do this you have to have the right woman.

Women often times *think* they want a player because they want what everyone else wants. And so you'll have all these women who are open to the player, some who unapologetically throw themselves at the player. But the player archetype is in many ways misunderstood. Women think they will keep such a man with freaky sex (and they may, for a while) or by being drop dead beautiful (again - this works for a while) or by having a hot fit body or some combination of the above. But what lots of women fail to grasp is that the player has been there, done that and has seen so many beautiful faces and so many tight asses and hot bodies that this becomes a "given". That's baseline to the player. You have to be pretty and hot to warrant his attention, but there has to be more there to keep his attention long term. Players have seen it all and they get bored quickly. Its so easy for them to get another pretty face and hot body that those things actually lose value because they become routine to the player.

What isn't routine? A beautiful/hot woman who is sweet, genuine, and who has an innocence to her nature. And if she is humble and intelligent and has a sense of humor & fun? That is who the player will fall for. Why? Because the player can relax and be a human being again. He doesn't have to be "The Player" with her. She sees behind the facade and sees the man who is really there. And suddenly the player feels seen for being something besides the player archetype. His authentic self is no longer invisible.

Too many women are serving their own egos by going after the player archetype. They want the cache of "He's with me", "Look what I have" etc. These are women who get extremely jealous if he talks to anyone else and they get clingy and needy and demanding and they drive him away. The reason is that he was an accessory to their ego...just as their hotness or beauty was an accessory to his ego. It's external validation out the wazoo.

I've been called a "10" recently to my face by a millionaire gentleman any number of women would be delighted to have. That's very flattering of course but its not who I am, its just what I look like. I'm dating a player now. He knows he is, he owns that reputation, and at first he tried to down play it to me. I told him just to own it and drive on. He thinks I'm a serious "Dork" and he tells me so, which is good because underneath all that playa bravado? He's a bigger dork than I am. He doesn't like the fact that women want him for the wrong reasons, although he loves to bask in their attention when he feels like it and he knows how to use all that to his sexual advantage. But its become hollow because its shallow. He's more than the archetype role that he is so accustomed to filling. At the end of the day he wants depth but he isn't sure how to go about that.

Because he's been emotionally closed off for some time it has been challenging for him to open up and connect as a human being. He gets insecure, he gets a bit wobbly; uncertain. Sometimes at one of the venues we frequent (where we know everyone) I'll get pulled aside and asked by a mutual acquaintance for advice about women...and if I disappear for too long (an arbitrary length of time), bouncers will come over and say the BF is looking for me...wants to know where I am...and I'll reappear to find him surrounded by women but missing me. All these women paying him all this attention for their own validation and yet almost none of them seeing who he really is and what he really needs. I understand him and I did from Day 1. And he could read that I "got it" where he was concerned. I've dated the player type all my life since my first serious boyfriend, and the guys without that edge bore me, no matter how handsome, no matter what great people they are. I know I need someone with a certain vibe and I find very few men with the traits I'm drawn to, but at the same time, when I find a man who 'clicks', its as natural to interact with him as breathing.

And that is the hard part for men who get jaded by being a player. These guys can recognize when they find a decent woman or someone who is MORE than just a pretty face and a hot body, but then what? What if they have stunted their ability to reveal themselves with depth emotionally? What if they have been too fixated on SEX SEX SEX to realize that meaning is found in something MORE than just sex? That is when the disillusionment sets in earnestly and these guys are somewhat lost again for a bit.

Honestly I'm not sure how to tell a man how to navigate those waters. I can recognize it...I'm navigating those waters with someone now 9 months in...but every man reaches this point from an individual place, and its an individual solution I'm afraid.

All I can tell you is keep your eyes out for a woman who enjoys you but doesn't NEED you, for a woman who has high enough self esteem that she can take or leave you with kindness, because as scary and uncertain as that will seem, that is the only sort of woman a player is ever going to respect, and that is the only sort of woman a player will ever take seriously and who can check his ego where it needs checking - and sometimes the ego needs checking. And you'll only love someone who you respect, just as a woman will only love you when she respects you, the reverse is also true. Not easy, but true.

And if you can get to that place, you'll be able to navigate relationships by turning toward your partner for solutions rather than away, and you'll begin to establish the deep trust and the intimacy that we all crave as human beings. You'll experience love if you can reach that point rather than infatuation. That is valuable and cannot be easily replaced by the next pretty face/hot body that comes along. That is what causes a relationship to strengthen rather than falter over time. And it ain't for sissies.

A man can be handsome, intelligent, articulate, funny, charismatic, etc. without being a player.

But you state that you’ve dated the player type your entire life. Other men “bore” you.

So, what traits/behaviors does a “player” have that keep you from getting “bored”?

And what is your motivation for dating a player other than the lack of boredom factor ?

-Augustus-

 

[BeExcellent]

A fair enough question Augustus. Its a lengthy answer.

The problem is you can’t just turn it on and off. You also don’t know what women are worth it until you truly get to know them

I think the above quote from @captain55 gives context to your question about me personally @Augustus_McCrae so I'll do my best to explain.

Its a two pronged answer. The first part has to do with the type of men I grew up with and am inherently conditioned toward: my father, my grandfather, my uncles. They were men best described like Cary Grant's character in "Giant". Leaders. Patriarchs. Businessmen. High class, high value, masculine & dominant. I think I subconsciously scan for that type and disregard men who don't exude those qualities in combination.

In addition I have my own preferences. I am a night person (someone who regularly goes to bed at 9pm or 10pm is not a man I'm going to click with), I require strong sex appeal, high intellectual and emotional intelligence, spontaneity, and I enjoy the game. Obviously a man has to be physically appealing to me as well. Finally there are things I don't like: feeling smothered, needy behavior, indecision, supplication.

When you combine those two sets of criteria the field narrows to a subset of men that often includes the player archetype. Not always, but often.

Back to the quote above. Players get habituated to flirtatious behavior, the conquest, and the novelty of new sex partners. Some are debauched to the point that they are fine in that existence long term and all the effort it entails. But others, in my estimation most actually, keep an eye out for a woman who offers more than just a pretty face and a hot body. What that entails is individual to what a particular man is looking for but the feedback I get from long term male friends (one of my longest tenured close friendships of 30 years is with a bachelor who has been a player the entire time I've known him)...is that quality single women who are good looking are hard to find. No surprise there.

And the other problem players run into is that they screen out good girls/better girls/quality girls by insisting on sex so quickly. My boyfriend has realized that since he's been seeing me (I wouldn't give up sex right away) and has noted that he has probably dismissed a number of relationship worthy women along the way because he wanted sex and they wouldn't deliver so he dropped them.

The player type (for me) typically has the traits and sex appeal and the social calibration that I need, and his behavior allows me latitude to be my own gregarious self without overshadowing him, and the player type naturally does not do the things that I don't like (supplication/indecision/etc.)...and the player type typically is OK with my naturally aloof personality. I'm warm, but not the least bit clingy or needy. Men who have lots of experience with women find that lack of neediness refreshing. I don't try and lasso men down and get into a "relationship". I prefer to look at actions, time invested, and what someone does as opposed to what they say and have the patience to allow something to develop organically. I like to be great friends as well as lovers and that takes time to grow into. Incidentally it was my boyfriend, not me, who put the boyfriend/girlfriend labels on my current relationship. His actions show me he wants the relationship to progress (so do I but I prefer he lead and show his investment - which I match). That is typically how things develop where I'm concerned.

I have self esteem that is high enough that if someone doesn't wish to continue with me, that's fine. I never want to try and hold someone who doesn't want to be there. What's the point of that? I want a man who desires to be with me. If he doesn't (or if I don't) its better for all involved that we part ways and entertain other possibilities. My personal history shows that my standards are high and I'm usually the one who breaks things off after a long period of being in the relationship and observing the internal workings of the relationship. And that only happens after open communication about the dynamic and that is as individual as each relationship and the two people in it.

At the end of the day it usually it turns out the sort of man I favor isn't the player forever type at all, rather he's a man with strong inner game who knows who he is and what he wants...he just doesn't find it often in the marketplace so he continues to play the field. I find this type of man becomes more intrigued with me (and women like me) over time, not less, as he sees how much more besides the physical appearance there actually is.