Beginners guide to becoming WEALTHY

[CosMoenTropic]

Thanks for taking the time for explaining your honest viewpoints on things. Great posts! I agree with many of the things in your last post .


I guess the main point is this:
What you expect vs. What you put in.
A lot of people either put too much emphasis on the former, or too little emphasis on the latter, or both. Different things work for different people. The goal is to constantly push forward and expand what you have. Having a dream keeps your motivation going. Do what you love!

 

[STR8UP]

I guess the main point is this:
What you expect vs. What you put in.
A lot of people either put too much emphasis on the former, or too little emphasis on the latter, or both.

There is a difference between "simple" and "easy". The concepts of building streams of passive cash flow, allowing someone else to pay for an asset, etc. are relatively simple. Sometimes they are difficult to grasp because of preconceptions and misconceptions about money, but once you can get past your former reality you will see how ridiculously simple it is in theory.

Putting it into action, now THAT'S a different story. Even if you are able to change the way you think, depending upon the method you use it can take years of working on something before you ever see a return.

I routinely put weeks, months, even years into a new project without ever seeing a penny. How many people are willing to do that? Not many. that's why you don't see everyone doing it. they want it to be EASY, but it isn't. It can be uncomfortable, even "painful" in the beginning.

And you talked about having a job in the beginning....well....sometimes you have to stick with your source of income. You have to pay your bills. And that's another thing that keeps more people from going this route. They are "too tired" after working their 40 hours per week and would rather spend the weekends relaxing on the beach than starting a new venture that doesn't even have any guarantees of paying off.

You have to be willing to sacrifice and step out of your comfort zone. Most people feel warm and safe and can't bring themselves to do so.

Different things work for different people. The goal is to constantly push forward and expand what you have. Having a dream keeps your motivation going. Do what you love!

It is very true that different thing work for different people. It took me a LOOOOOONG time to figure out the things in business that I am good at and the things that I enjoy doing.

The one thing you have to be careful of though is taking the "do what you love" saying too literally. Yes, you should try to stick with things that are able to hold your interest, but keep in mind that you might very much enjoy being a high school teacher or a social worker, but neither one of those occupations will ever make you wealthy. You MUST become involved in one or more of the asset classes. You can be a teacher or a social worker at the same time, but that in itself isn't enough.

 

[strong like bull]

"Whatever you do, don't listen to all of the people who say you can't do this or you shouldn't do that. As you can see by several posts in this thread there are plenty of them out there. These people are the AFC's of the world of money. All they are is crabs in a barrel trying to pull you back in.

You are better than that."


so true. for every person who breaks through and succeeds in life, there are a thousand people who told him he cant do it, its impossible, keep your day job its safer, etc. but that successful person made it because he had a burning desire to win and achieve his goals in life.

and that statement doesnt even have to relate to money. to succeed and rise above others in ANYTHING requires you to face adversity.


"And you talked about having a job in the beginning....well....sometimes you have to stick with your source of income. You have to pay your bills. And that's another thing that keeps more people from going this route. They are "too tired" after working their 40 hours per week and would rather spend the weekends relaxing on the beach than starting a new venture that doesn't even have any guarantees of paying off.

You have to be willing to sacrifice and step out of your comfort zone. Most people feel warm and safe and can't bring themselves to do so."

BINGO!!

theres a saying, "If you want something youve never had, you must do something youve never done."

a lot of those crabs trying to pull you back in the barrel are those who work 40 hrs and call it quits. they put in their time at the 9-5 monday thru friday, making their boss rich, plop down in front of the tv for a few hours every night, go out on friday and saturday night to hang out with their friends, sleep in on sunday, maybe run some errands, eat a lot, relax... then get back up monday morning and do it all again! its an ever turning wheel.

if thats their routine, and never do anything else... how can they be expected to accomplish anything extraordinary in their life?

and as far as traditional education goes... all im gonna say is this:
ever notice how that 9-5 lifestyle i just wrote about, the one that 90% of americans abide by. ever notice how similar it is to the school schedules? children are RAISED and conditioned to be accustomed to that set up. wake up in the morning, report to your classroom (office). report to your teacher (boss). dont be tardy! obediently follow your teachers schedule (do what your boss says) regardless of whether it makes sense to YOU or not. strive hard to get your teachers good grades (decent paycheck from boss). and most of all... dont question authority!

its no wonder that it seems outrageous to build wealth creatively. most people today have been conditioned to do anything but that. traditional schooling does anything BUT teach you to be a strong, independent thinker. its understandable that most people who read this thread for the first time, get a shock of sorts. it probably goes against everything theyve ever been taught!

theres nothing wrong with being a good student. nor being a good employee. but there is something wrong with wandering through life with your eyes closed, being led by your parents, your teachers, your bosses.

open your eyes and think for yourself. wealth CAN be achieved. str8ups original thread is very insightful but dont get any idea that its a "scheme" or something he pulled out of his ass. investing in real estate is something thats being going on for a long time, hes just nice enough to try and open everyones eyes about it so they have at least an opportunity to achieve some of the success others have.

last weekend on a business trip i met a guy, who works in my organization, that was recognized as being the top earner in the past 12 months. wanna know how much he made? $100,000 a month, each month. not 100k a year, but each month! he was a guy who immigrated here and had terrible english. but he definitely had a will to succeed. he uses his business talent to achieve things a lot of people say are impossible.

listen to str8up. these kind of things are only as impossible as you make them out to be. remember that the most powerful thing in the world is a made up mind.

-slb

 

[strong like bull]

dbl post

 

[Duffdog]

I brought up my intelligence because for some reason you keep talking about how I'm not smart enough to understand this and that because I don't have an "advanced degree", as if that is the only way that a person could comprehend what you are saying.

No, that's not it at all. Intellectual capacity does not create wisdom. From what you just posted, you indirectly proved me right. For you did not understand what I was saying at all. I don't mean any disrespect, but you totally missed the point I was making. I didn't answer your questions because they were obviously an attempt to bait me into an argument you thought that you could win. Which, is typical among the uneducated and unskilled at debate, so I won't fault you for it.

I'm not sure exactly what it is you have against people who think differently than you do, but when you resort to passive aggressive taunts and incoherent babbling as opposed to answering the questions I posed and explaining WHY you believe what you believe, I have no reason to respond. I know it must make your head hurt when you are presented with ideas that go against your narrow view of the world, but if you are going to try to discredit someone you should at least be able to make a case for it.

Boo... It is obvious that you just "got lucky" and became one of the few who made some money and now feel that you are the ultimate authority on everything financial. Your advise works well in a good economy, just like any other get-rich-quick scheme guy on TV. I like how you admit that it takes hard work and sacrifice. That sort of sounds like "You can make UP TO 10,000,000 dollars a day using our method" In other words, it is the biggest cop out you can say. Everything you have said is incredibly idealized and amounts to nothing more than ego stroking. There are no real methods and advise you have put forth which are more than the most basic and cursory "buy low and sell high" common sense that anyone could figure out.

If someone fails, it was because they "didn't work hard enough" and if they do well, it was because they "followed your advise"...right? Tell me, what is the point of posting a "beginners guide to wealth"? Do you truly believe in your heart that you have found the key to wealth and that is was created by any other means besides sheer blind luck that you happened to be the benefactor of? Here's a shocker: If someone had followed your real estate advice to a T in the year 2005-- they would be flat broke because all values declined. I'm sure that you would dismiss this as "they didn't work hard enough", but what really happened is that they thought that there was a shortcut to wealth that any idiot could do and it backfired. The only reason it didn't backfire on you is because you already had enough assets during the downturn to weather the storm. Now that you have weathered the storm, anything you do will create a positive return simply because you were lucky enough to have the right TIMING.

JUST LIKE I WAS SAYING IN THE BEGINNING. Timing was the deciding factor in your wealth, your "outlook on life" and "the way you think" had very little to do with it. Now that the timing is poor, your advise is irrelevant.

It sucks that you missed that point completely.

I am done.

 

[strong like bull]

duffdog,

either your attacks stem from personal issues, unrelated to us.
or you completely miss the point of everything positive in this thread.

investing in real estate isnt a product sold by str8up. its something that has been done successfully for generations. he has nothing to gain from you or anyone else understanding his advice. aside from appreciation knowing hes helped others enjoy the same positive things he has, nothing comes out of this.

this thread truly isnt even about investing in real estate. at its core, its about investing in your mind, following your desires and setting off to achieve success in life. it would be dense to attribute success in any venture, solely to blind luck.

contribute to the advice, or bring forward accurate and respectable arguments. theres no need to bash others or make this a personal debate. debate facts. not subjective opinions.

-slb

 

[STR8UP]

duffdog,

either your attacks stem from personal issues, unrelated to us.
or you completely miss the point of everything positive in this thread.

investing in real estate isnt a product sold by str8up. its something that has been done successfully for generations. he has nothing to gain from you or anyone else understanding his advice. aside from appreciation knowing hes helped others enjoy the same positive things he has, nothing comes out of this.

this thread truly isnt even about investing in real estate. at its core, its about investing in your mind, following your desires and setting off to achieve success in life. it would be dense to attribute success in any venture, solely to blind luck.

contribute to the advice, or bring forward accurate and respectable arguments. theres no need to bash others or make this a personal debate. debate facts. not subjective opinions.

-slb

YOU my friend, you "get it".

If I were pitching some kind of scheme as opposed to going out there and living it and reporting what I find there would be a link in my sig, dontcha think?

And you are correct....it isn't about any one investment vehicle or method being the holy grail.....it's about opening your mind to a new way of thinking that will allow you to find the way that works for YOU. There are some basic tents to this that I have spoken about over the course of this thread, but ultimately these guys who discount everything they don't understand or that expect the golden goose to be handed to them, or those who have this ridiculous idea that the only way to become wealthy is through LUCK will never live up to their potential because they are too narrow minded to look past their misconceptions. And that's fine....we need people like that in the world too. They just don't have any place commenting on matters they know nothing about.

I find it incredibly ironic that some people can sit here and talk about how I "don't understand" where they are coming from when their entire argument that this is "bad advice" revolves around the fact that they failed to comprehend what was written in the original post.

I wasn't going to keep going around in circles on this, but for the benefit of people who actually do want to learn I think it is important that these points be addressed because this is an all too common TOXIC attitude that is instilled in many of us from an early age. So here goes....

I didn't answer your questions because they were obviously an attempt to bait me into an argument you thought that you could win. Which, is typical among the uneducated and unskilled at debate, so I won't fault you for it.

Actually, the real reason why you didn't answer any of the questions is because-

1) You have no response for what was presented to you. If you were to answer my questions it would show that you haven't taken ten minutes to question yourself as to why you think the way you do. It is the equivalent of the kid who grows up never questioning his parents religious beliefs or the AFC who continues to beat his head against the wall because of women.

If you grow up to be an adult and you question what you were taught and arrive back where you started it's one thing, but if you blindly follow the mindset that you grew up with it shows that you aren't even open to hearing new ideas let alone trying them. My parents didn't have all of the answers and I would be willing to bet yours didn't either. Follow blindly at your own risk.

2) It might actually force you to reconsider your point of view.

Boo... It is obvious that you just "got lucky" and became one of the few who made some money and now feel that you are the ultimate authority on everything financial. Your advise works well in a good economy, just like any other get-rich-quick scheme guy on TV.

It has little to do with the economy, which you would understand if you took the time to read and understand the original post instead of discounting it as some kind of get rich quick scheme.

I like how you admit that it takes hard work and sacrifice. That sort of sounds like "You can make UP TO 10,000,000 dollars a day using our method" In other words, it is the biggest cop out you can say.

Not sure how you come up with the idea that explaining that this ISN'T a get rich quick scheme is a "cop out", but ok....

Everything you have said is incredibly idealized and amounts to nothing more than ego stroking. There are no real methods and advise you have put forth which are more than the most basic and cursory "buy low and sell high" common sense that anyone could figure out.

You didn't even read the original post, did you?

As I stated before, there is no such thing as a "treasure map" that can be used by anyone and everyone. If it would be possible to write a step by step guide showing exactly how anyone and everyone can become wealthy, it would have been written by now, but the fact of the matter is that there is no universal method for doing this. I have read dozens of books and tried many, MANY different things that have taught me what I know and allowed me to find my own path. Specific techniques can be outlined and people can learn how to think and act the right way, but at the end of the day it is up to the individual to "fill in the blanks" based upon his situation, goals, personality, etc.

If someone fails, it was because they "didn't work hard enough" and if they do well, it was because they "followed your advise"...right? Tell me, what is the point of posting a "beginners guide to wealth"? Do you truly believe in your heart that you have found the key to wealth and that is was created by any other means besides sheer blind luck that you happened to be the benefactor of?

You really don't know how insulting that is, do you?

"Sheer blind luck" huh?

Was Henry Ford lucky, or did he have a vision and the determination to make something happen?

I challenge you to actually answer this question, but as I pointed out you will likely refuse to answer due to the fact that it will reveal the blatantly obvious flaws in your "logic".

Here's a shocker: If someone had followed your real estate advice to a T in the year 2005-- they would be flat broke because all values declined.

Here's the REAL shocker: If anyone had followed my advice in 2005, chances are good they wouldn't have been buying anything. That's right. If you had taken the time to READ the original post you would see that the entire premise is NOT to "buy low sell high", it is to "buy and let someone else make the payment". If you did your homework before you bought you would only be buying properties that sustain themselves. If a property pays for itself via the income it generates, market fluctuations are irrelevant because you can "ride it out" for 20 years if you have to. With that in mind, would you like to correct yourself?

If you would have bought stocks in 2005 chances are you would have lost money as well. What are people supposed to do? Bury their money in a tin can? We are in the worst economy in 70 years. I'll bet you predicted this would happen, right? No, you are simply using the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to try to say "i told you so" even though you are criticizing something that isn't even applicable. Funny.

Let me explain something about real estate.

In a bread and butter neighborhood (the kind that real estate investors should concentrate on) at least part of the value of a property is based upon how much rental income the property can generate. In a decent neighborhood the value of a property will generally only fall below a certain level before it becomes too good of a deal for investors to pass up. At that point it will drive the price up to a more stable level.

So if you were listening to what I was saying, you wouldn't be buying properties that had a whole lot of downward potential, because once they hit a certain price the rent income would not have been able to service the debt let alone pay for other expenses.

I'm sure that you would dismiss this as "they didn't work hard enough", but what really happened is that they thought that there was a shortcut to wealth that any idiot could do and it backfired.

You keep talking about "shortcuts" and whatnot.....why don't you enlighten us as to the RIGHT way to build wealth? Oh yea, it's go to college, get a steady job and invest in 401k's and IRA's, right?

I would be willing to bet that right now there are a lot of people who took this path over the past decade that recently lost their job and watched their retirement accounts evaporate with the stock market might have wished they had done things a little differently.

So tell us, how does one go about building wealth the right way? We all know it can be done because there are quite a few wealthy people in the world. Oh yea, that's right....they all got LUCKY. Had nothing to do with the fact that they put the time and sweat into it, right?

Anyone can sit back and quarterback from a recliner but if you have never stepped foot on the field you are doing nothing but blowing hot air.

Any real world advice for us? Or are you only capable of theorizing about why things can't work?

 

[yuppaz]

Nothing personal, but I do take issue with some of these points

YOU my friend, you "get it".

If I were pitching some kind of scheme as opposed to going out there and living it and reporting what I find there would be a link in my sig, dontcha think?

And you are correct....it isn't about any one investment vehicle or method being the holy grail.....it's about opening your mind to a new way of thinking that will allow you to find the way that works for YOU. There are some basic tents to this that I have spoken about over the course of this thread, but ultimately these guys who discount everything they don't understand or that expect the golden goose to be handed to them, or those who have this ridiculous idea that the only way to become wealthy is through LUCK will never live up to their potential because they are too narrow minded to look past their misconceptions. And that's fine....we need people like that in the world too. They just don't have any place commenting on matters they know nothing about.





The truth is (as I see it) that STR8UP's advice would work in the beginnings of a credit expansion cycle, or in more ordinary times, but to a much, much smaller degree. In your post you mention that you don't think anyone saw this coming. Personally I did, and dissuaded people from buying real estate and had a 110% return on put options I purchased in 06 & 07 when MBS and CDO buyers started to understand that the underlying assets for which their vehicles (bond pools) were not going to go much farther beying their (at the time) current values because people that lived in the big bubble areas didn't double their income in the past few years, then it was just a mater of time before they all came tumbling down. This credit expansion was fueled by very easy credit and by the real estate industry NAR, building associations etc. promulgating the myth that the fastest easiest way to get rich was by buying houses and flipping them. With credit SOOOO easy to come by, waiters that couldn't afford sh*t were flipping mansions in Beverly Hills (not an exageration, saw that on flip this house) via stated income loans where they state that they made millions. It was completely illegal, but everyone was doing it, so why not? Prices would soar as the game got heated, but in reality wages never changed (except to go down a bit) and therefore prices were not at all stable as the PTI ratio of houses in flipping areas went to double that of historical norms (PTI = the price of the house is normally 2.5 - 4 times the average annual income of the wage earner in the area, so if the average family income was 50,000, then the price of the house (to remain affordable via conventional 30 year fixed loans would be around $150,000)). The PTI in bubble areas (and some very conservative areas as well) went WAY beyond that which is sustainable, to levels like 9 times the PTI in Florida, Hawaii, Vegas, Ohio, Michigan, California and many other places in the country. Now the PTI ratios need to come back to reality as the reason why they were adhered to historically was because that was all the working class could afford. Houses in many areas have to come down by half, because the suckers that were fueling the fire with easy money got burned REALLY bad (think what was supposed to be a safe AAA rated investment losing 95% of it's value). Their is no way in hell that we can reflate that bubble....there aren't any more suckers out there in the world. The fictional money /value created through these asset classes in just the past 5-6 years or so was near $40,000,000,000,000 supporting valuations in the $20,000,000,000,000 range. Think of it like this, the balloon was being filled by an air pump cranked to the max output, but that pump has been broken and there are leaks all over the balloon. When the air goes out it affects all asset classes that were related to the balloon being blown in the first place. See there were a LOT of jobs created and businesses expanded during the credit expansion. Construction workers started feeling wealthy because of the high demand, they bought nice trucks, which made the salespeople start spending on nice dinners, the restaurants that served them did well and the waiters went out and bought nice clothes to impress the ladies, the clothing stores started doing well and on and on and on. Ok, so the expansion that happened as a result of the easy money out there is now over and business dropped will ensure more layoffs, basically in direct proportion to the expansion will be the contraction. This means that even rental properties that may NOW be paying an inflated mortgages minimum arm payment won't be in such high demand and will likely (and are) continue to have less and less demand. People lose their jobs and move back home, less money in general and excess supply of rentals means that it is a self reinforcing process for more demand destruction and more and more rentals go into foreclosure, thus effecting home sales prices even more as additional inventory hits the market where tight credit is hard to come by (due again to the lack of suckers and banks taking the risk once again like in the old days before MBS and CDO types of financing vehicles).

Bottom line: rentals may pay the mortgage now, but don't count on them doing it in the future. Buying and flipping is more risky and there is less reward than there ever has been in the past 10+ years. Why go into a still declining market, knowing that it is declining. Also the whole lease with option thing will be understood as a scam for the option holder as soon as they realize that the option is only valuable when prices are going up, not down and that game will be gone too.

In the matter of wealth in general, I would strongly recommend against reading guys like Robert Kyosaki's fictional works to get into the mindset of a millionaire. There never was a rich dad, or a poor dad, there was a scam artist that convinced Amway people that his book and expensive tapes were the road to riches, when in fact they were only a road map for him to make his money off of suckers buying his books. He never made any money in real estate until he sold millions and millions in books, then he started thinking he was the man and started making some ridiculous investment decisions based on pure conjecture and he lossed his @ss. I've heard speeches and read some of his stuff and everything I read was bad. In everything I have ever seen or heard, he makes himself look WAYYYY smarter then you, and if you want to be smart like him you had better do what he does. That's his whole "game", he fools you into thinking that you should join his cult and if you do you will be rich, but I know a lot of cult followers that have hailed their mighty leader for a very long time and haven't made a f*cking dime.

Most of the people I know that are rich are a result of nepotism, or VERY hard work building their own companies. Sometimes it is luck too.

Foresight and walking through logically assumed scenarios can help you on your way but action is what sets the winners aside from the masses.

Peace!

 

[Duffdog]

I know I said I was done, but this question bothered me to no end:

Was Henry Ford lucky, or did he have a vision and the determination to make something happen?

I challenge you to actually answer this question, but as I pointed out you will likely refuse to answer due to the fact that it will reveal the blatantly obvious flaws in your "logic".

Well...Since you so kindly asked, the answer is YES you [expletive deleted] Henry Ford was "lucky." He was lucky on so many levels that I will only begin to touch on a few of them. First off, Henry went to college to become an electrical engineer, then got a job as an engineer. Next, he worked his way up to chief engineer at a company who was lucky enough to have a CEO that scammed someone else out of a money making patent and secured their profitability. Then, he attended social events which were populated by venture capitalists who ALREADY HAD THE MONEY and wanted to invest in something new. It just so happened that during this time, the economy was good (wow, lucky again huh!) and Henry Ford just happened to have an idea that would revolutionize the auto world. But, it didn't because Henry Ford didn't have a name yet and his company floundered...until an economic downturn took place. When the downturn took place, the manufacturing process that Ford created reduced costs, making his competition irrelevant. All of the sudden, Ford had an IMPLIED MONOPOLY on reduced cost assembly. Well, that's just the epitome of luck, isn't it! You make a product and nobody buys it for the first 5 years of your companies existence. Then, miraculously, the world falls into recession and all of the sudden all your competition evaporates without you doing ANYTHING DIFFERENT AT ALL. But, you already factored in that small detail, huh!

Ford's wealth was simply a matter of GOOD TIMING, just like yours. I would further like you to know that the rise of GM took place because Ford sat on their laurels and insisted that their monopoly on assembly production was all that they needed to compete. That was, until, the GREAT DEPRESSION allowed GM to takeover the spot for most vehicles sold because they used Ford's method and incorporated customized options (again, they were lucky because of the timing involved) Do you see a pattern here?

STR8UP-I love how you simply glossed over the fact that I said both TIMING, and the creation of an IMPLIED MONOPOLY are the keys to wealth. That is the answer-- it has always been the answer since the beginning of time and it will continue to be the answer forever. My logic is undeniable. Real estate is not the answer to anything and it never was. You were just lucky to have the right timing. For every str8up, there were 8000 failures who failed because of their poor timing. But, you won't make mention of those people will you? Why not?

The mindset that you have is the same as the investment bankers and brokers who scammed people out of their life savings. They all thought that they were the smartest person in the room and that they have all the answers because they have all the money, which I sense in your writings as well.

Do you have any other theories involving wealth and economics that you would like me to prove wrong? I'm getting tired of proving you wrong, so just keep it down to a few more, ok?

 

[STR8UP]

@ yuppaz- You obviously didn't read the post either because I said nothing about flipping houses. That isn't INVESTING, that is a JOB. And about buying in a downward market...well....I wouldn't be buying anything myself right now. This economy is one of those wildcards that throw a curve into the equation that will require people to think for themselves and adjust their strategy accordingly.

Well...Since you so kindly asked, the answer is YES you [expletive deleted] Henry Ford was "lucky." He was lucky on so many levels that I will only begin to touch on a few of them. First off, Henry went to college to become an electrical engineer, then got a job as an engineer. Next, he worked his way up to chief engineer at a company who was lucky enough to have a CEO that scammed someone else out of a money making patent and secured their profitability.

Okay, so he went to school and learned a skill and "worked his way up to chief engineer". Sounds like luck so far.

You are saying that he was "lucky enough to work for a company whose CEO scammed someone else out of a money making patent". What the hell does his employment at this company have to do with his lucky wealth? Grasping for straws?

Then, he attended social events which were populated by venture capitalists who ALREADY HAD THE MONEY and wanted to invest in something new.

Again, great job of illustrated how "lucky" he was. He could have been sitting at home relaxing, but instead he chose to spend his time associating with the right people. You're on to something here.....

It just so happened that during this time, the economy was good (wow, lucky again huh!) and Henry Ford just happened to have an idea that would revolutionize the auto world.

Ford has an idea that "revolutionizes the auto world", and instead of crediting him for the idea that changed history, you attribute his success to the booming economy. Your argument is really making sense now! Please continue.....

But, it didn't because Henry Ford didn't have a name yet and his company floundered...until an economic downturn took place. When the downturn took place, the manufacturing process that Ford created reduced costs, making his competition irrelevant.

So Ford's great idea that he implemented while building the company he started busting his ass on 30 years earlier turned out to be a wise business move, yet you give the credit to the great depression.. You're on a roll.....

All of the sudden, Ford had an IMPLIED MONOPOLY on reduced cost assembly. Well, that's just the epitome of luck, isn't it!

An "implied monopoly" eh?

A little research tells us that GM began to gain market share on Ford around that time. Shoots a few holes in your monopoly theory, huh?

You make a product and nobody buys it for the first 5 years of your companies existence. Then, miraculously, the world falls into recession and all of the sudden all your competition evaporates without you doing ANYTHING DIFFERENT AT ALL. But, you already factored in that small detail, huh!

GM has been in business since 1908. Chrysler started in 1925. Last I checked all three companies are still in business! If they "evaporated" why are they still here? Man, you're knocking them out of the park!

Ford's wealth was simply a matter of GOOD TIMING, just like yours. I would further like you to know that the rise of GM took place because Ford sat on their laurels and insisted that their monopoly on assembly production was all that they needed to compete. That was, until, the GREAT DEPRESSION allowed GM to takeover the spot for most vehicles sold because they used Ford's method and incorporated customized options (again, they were lucky because of the timing involved) Do you see a pattern here?

So Ford DID have competition! Which is it? They had a monopoly or they had other businesses nipping at their heels and taking market share? The great depression....competition....sounds like Ford was busy trying to keep his head above water. And GM got lucky because they implemented a system that was working for their competition and improved upon the business model by offering customized options?

Okay people, does anyone else see the absurdity in this "luck" theory?

STR8UP-I love how you simply glossed over the fact that I said both TIMING, and the creation of an IMPLIED MONOPOLY are the keys to wealth.

Timing? I agree that timing CAN play a role in success. Your "implied monopoly" conspiracy theory, however, is utter bullsh!t. I shot your Ford=monopoly idea out of the water. Richard Branson is worth billions because he started many successful businesses. Last I checked, he didn't have a monopoly on record stores, rights to music, airplanes, financial services, cell phone service, or any of the other things he is involved in.

But I'm sure you can find a way to spin Branson's wealth into being all about luck and timing too, huh?

That is the answer-- it has always been the answer since the beginning of time and it will continue to be the answer forever.

Let me just ask you ONE THING.

Lets say for a second for arguments sake that you are 100% correct. The ONLY way to become wealthy is to have good timing and create an "implied monopoly".

Obviously if Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Richard Branson, or any of the other multitude of multi-millionaires and billionaires on the planet had not had the balls to start their companies and the motivation to get up every day and run them, you probably never would have heard of any of them.

I will tell you right now that saying "it's all luck" is nothing more than a p!ss poor excuse that people use to explain why other people have more than they do. If you believe that there is NO SKILL WHATSOEVER involved in the process, you are indeed a pitiful chode. Now I don't think that's the case at all, so I am going to ask you exactly HOW MUCH do you attribute skill to success? What percent?

My logic is undeniable. Real estate is not the answer to anything and it never was.

Your "logic" is nothing more than left wing, liberal propaganda espoused by those who either believe that money is "evil", or that they themselves cannot or will not ever become wealthy. It's an EXCUSE to stay right where you are. It's a shaming tool.

And the poetic justice here is that it is self-fulfilling.

The surest way to NEVER become wealthy is to have a toxic attitude like yours.

And just for the record, nowhere have I ever said that real estate is "the answer".

You were just lucky to have the right timing. For every str8up, there were 8000 failures who failed because of their poor timing. But, you won't make mention of those people will you? Why not?

I thought I already explained how failure works. Didn't register with you, did it?

You might be a quitter who runs away with his tail between his legs every time you face adversity, but there are a lot of people out there who aren't like that. They are persistent. They know that failure is the best teacher and that the lessons learned through failure on ONE project are actually more valuable than the money that might have been made because they can never be taken away. Money comes and goes....wisdom cannot be taken away.

And I would LOVE to see where you get your statistics from. Did you read somewhere that 8000 people fail to every one that succeeds, or did you pull that number out of thin air?

The mindset that you have is the same as the investment bankers and brokers who scammed people out of their life savings. They all thought that they were the smartest person in the room and that they have all the answers because they have all the money, which I sense in your writings as well.

Every time you post this drivel it becomes more and more apparent that you either DID NOT READ the original post, or that you read it and didn't even TRY to comprehend it.

Let me sum it in a few sentences and then you give me a summary of how you could possibly compare it to ponzi schemes or whatever it is you are getting at.

Here goes, for those of you who either didn't read it or didn't bother to try to understand it before dismissing it-

-The idea is to acquire a property that you can RENT to people who either cannot buy real estate or choose not to buy real estate for whatever reason.

-You ONLY buy properties that can rent for enough money to cover the mortgage, insurance, and all other property expenses. If the property generates MORE income than expenses, you get to keep the difference. this is called positive cashflow

-Once you have acquired the property you wait. Historically real estate prices increase over time. There are no guarantees that it will, but then again there are no guarantees with ANY worthwhile investment vehicle. If you bought it RIGHT (it pays for itself) the risk is minimal because even if the property doesn't increase in value for awhile your rent income will most likely increase and it will give you even MORE income.

Exactly what about this could be compared to "scamming people out of their life savings"?

If you were financially versed you should be able to ascertain that this is not only financially viable and sustainable, but in no way is it unethical, immoral, or illegal.

 

[STR8UP]

Do you have any other theories involving wealth and economics that you would like me to prove wrong? I'm getting tired of proving you wrong, so just keep it down to a few more, ok?

You refuse to answer half of my questions that would clearly show that you don't know what you are talking about and prove that your thought process is not only incorrect but irrational and yet you think that you have "proved me wrong"?

All you can do is say over and over again that it's all luck, which is the lamest excuse for someone NOT to try that was ever invented. Luck is a bullsh!t excuse that lazy people use to explain why some people have more than they do.

Do you believe in lucky rabbits feet and four leaf clovers too? Maybe I should be selling stuff like that to gullible people like you.

Ever heard the saying "Chance favors the brave"?

"Luck" is buying a winning lottery ticket. It is NOT starting a company, working hard to build it, developing revolutionary new ways to lower costs and speed production, and developing a better sales model, among many other things.

The guy sitting on his couch drinking a 12 pack every night who discovers that a long lost uncle left him a fortune is LUCKY. Richard Branson starting a magazine and eventually a record store which lead to buying rights to music is NOT lucky.

See the difference?

You credit "luck" for being the deciding factor when in fact, luck (or more accurately "chance") plays a very small role.

Here's how it works.

We are ALL subject to outside influences that are out of our control that effect our lives in both a positive and a negative manner. If you are the guy guzzling the 12 pack on the couch every night as opposed to attending parties where you might meet venture capitalists who are interested in your new business plan, you probably aren't going to have too many people handing you money to start or expand a business, are you?

Here's a little quote from Henry himself that I found as I was looking this up-

"It has been my observation that most people get ahead during the time that others waste."

And that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Duffdog]

@ yuppaz- You obviously didn't read the post either because I said nothing about flipping houses. That isn't INVESTING, that is a JOB. And about buying in a downward market...well....I wouldn't be buying anything myself right now. This economy is one of those wildcards that throw a curve into the

Ok-- so the accumulation of wealth at this point in TIME is not possible using your plan...how "unlucky"!!! such poor TIMING!!


Okay, so he went to school and learned a skill and "worked his way up to chief engineer". Sounds like luck so far.

Strange that you suddenly have respect for advanced degrees when before they were useless. I think I said something about getting an advanced degree

You are saying that he was "lucky enough to work for a company whose CEO scammed someone else out of a money making patent". What the hell does his employment at this company have to do with his lucky wealth?

I'm glad you asked. Edison was intensely political, therefore he utilized political muscle to create implied monopolies to sell his inferior product. One of his methods for doing this was to have galas for political officials and require his top engineers to be present. Of course you knew that this wasn't voluntary already, right?


Again, great job of illustrated how "lucky" he was. He could have been sitting at home relaxing, but instead he chose to spend his time associating with the right people. You're on to something here.....

Attendance was required at events like this. If you would like to know how I know that, I can tell you, but is probably easier if you use a bit of inference and figure it out for yourself.

Ford has an idea that "revolutionizes the auto world", and instead of crediting him for the idea that changed history, you attribute his success to the booming economy. Your argument is really making sense now! Please continue.....

There are tons of auto makers who have great ideas that would make all the big players go bankrupt the next day. Unfortunately, those players repress all good ideas for the sake of self preservation using political or monetary muscle. Or, as I so eloquently put it-- to preserve their Implied Monopoly. Have you ever heard of the Tucker auto company? Know what happened to them?

So Ford's great idea that he implemented while building the company he started busting his ass on 30 years earlier turned out to be a wise business move, yet you give the credit to the great depression.. You're on a roll.....

No, not the great depression. The recession that allowed Ford to overcome competition occurred before the 1930's. It was a normal cyclical economic contraction. The great depression is what allowed GM to outsell Ford for the first time. Get it straight.

An "implied monopoly" eh?

A little research tells us that GM began to gain market share on Ford around that time. Shoots a few holes in your monopoly theory, huh?

You suck. Seriously. Ford sold 80% of all cars made until the 30's--only after the great depression did GM EVER outsell Ford.

GM has been in business since 1908. Chrysler started in 1925. Last I checked all three companies are still in business! If they "evaporated" why are they still here? Man, you're knocking them out of the park!

If you think that there were only 3 auto companies in existence during that time and that those 3 were the only competitors who could have evaporated...I overestimated your ability to do research.

So Ford DID have competition! Which is it? They had a monopoly or they had other businesses nipping at their heels and taking market share? The great depression....competition....sounds like Ford was busy trying to keep his head above water. And GM got lucky because they implemented a system that was working for their competition and improved upon the business model by offering customized options?

Okay people, does anyone else see the absurdity in this "luck" theory?

Since you did all this research, did you know that after GM outsold them, they lost an average of 10million dollars per year? Of course you already knew that, I forgot. My bad. So yes, they were busy trying to keep their head above water until the 50's...when the economy got better and the big 3 suddenly became rich again. Weird how those economic contractions and expansions have SO much influence on profits.

Timing? I agree that timing CAN play a role in success. Your "implied monopoly" conspiracy theory, however, is utter bullsh!t. I shot your Ford=monopoly idea out of the water. Richard Branson is worth billions because he started many successful businesses. Last I checked, he didn't have a monopoly on record stores, rights to music, airplanes, financial services, cell phone service, or any of the other things he is involved in.

But I'm sure you can find a way to spin Branson's wealth into being all about luck and timing too, huh?

Most likely It is a result of a combination of the two, yes. You keep forgetting that for every one successful guy, there were thousands of failures. What about the failures?



Let me just ask you ONE THING.

Lets say for a second for arguments sake that you are 100% correct. The ONLY way to become wealthy is to have good timing and create an "implied monopoly".

Obviously if Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Richard Branson, or any of the other multitude of multi-millionaires and billionaires on the planet had not had the balls to start their companies and the motivation to get up every day and run them, you probably never would have heard of any of them.

[sigh] Yes, it was because of timing and the creation of an implied monopoly. You should be picking up on that by now. All of your examples listed above are a testament to this fact. Everyone who starts a business "has the balls", everyone who wakes up trying to take over the world has the "motivation" to do it. But what exactly separates the winners from the losers? Its easy to just write of those who were unsuccessful as "having no balls" but that is far removed from reality. Everyone with a business wants to succeed with every fiber of their being. Everyone has talent in something. But why are some of them successful and some of them losers? Shouldn't the fact that you are talented and work hard guarantee your success? Sadly it does not. The factors which are beyond your control are truly the factors that matter. If you yourself had begun your real estate career at any other time, you would be a failure. Because you didn't, you now attribute your success to something internal to yourself. Its called vanity my friend.

I will tell you right now that saying "it's all luck" is nothing more than a p!ss poor excuse that people use to explain why other people have more than they do. If you believe that there is NO SKILL WHATSOEVER involved in the process, you are indeed a pitiful chode. Now I don't think that's the case at all, so I am going to ask you exactly HOW MUCH do you attribute skill to success? What percent?

I can't believe that you mentioned Bill Gates. That is the quintessential example of luck and timing. That is just about the worst thing you could have said...seriously. You just stabbed yourself in the face with that move there. :crackup:


Your "logic" is nothing more than left wing, liberal propaganda espoused by those who either believe that money is "evil", or that they themselves cannot or will not ever become wealthy. It's an EXCUSE to stay right where you are. It's a shaming tool.

And the poetic justice here is that it is self-fulfilling.

The surest way to NEVER become wealthy is to have a toxic attitude like yours.

Really? Why is it that I have lots of money and a very comfortable life with no debt? It couldn't possibly be because I have business skills which are viable even in a depression. Or, that I am educated and have degrees--no, that's just not possible. If you don't make money being a landlord like STR8UP, then there is NO possible way to be wealthy.

And just for the record, nowhere have I ever said that real estate is "the answer".

Yet you implied that studying and getting a degree to better yourself is useless and won't create "wealth." Did you not type this EXACT phrase: but none as quick and safe as purchasing real estate with no money down.

I thought I already explained how failure works. Didn't register with you, did it?

You might be a quitter who runs away with his tail between his legs every time you face adversity, but there are a lot of people out there who aren't like that. They are persistent. They know that failure is the best teacher and that the lessons learned through failure on ONE project are actually more valuable than the money that might have been made because they can never be taken away. Money comes and goes....wisdom cannot be taken away.

I love how you assume that I am not successful. Thats great!

And I would LOVE to see where you get your statistics from. Did you read somewhere that 8000 people fail to every one that succeeds, or did you pull that number out of thin air?

Aaaah-- NOW we are getting all academic:moon: wouldn't you like to know where I got my statistics from. In one of my useless economic forecasting classes, they told stories of these strange buildings which are...believe it or not, lined with all types of books that do not have the words "get" and "rich" anywhere in their titles. These buildings are affectionately known as Libraries to these eccentric people often called "students". Within these "libraries", "students" have access to statistics and forecasting models which are not available on google and wikipedia! Its freaking crazy!

 

[Duffdog]

Every time you post this drivel it becomes more and more apparent that you either DID NOT READ the original post, or that you read it and didn't even TRY to comprehend it.

Or, that post is complete crap that anyone could have done given the right timing and resources and you were lucky enough to have done it by taking advantages of those two variables. By the way, nice use of the word "drivel", it sort of makes your post sound academic. You know what really p1sses me off? I did sound for the author of "Rich Dad/Poor Dad"-- and had to sit through his BULLSH1T seminar while he convinced poor people that there was a "path to economic freedom." [with purchase of his literature of course]. I can't believe that you would sincerely recommend this OBVIOUS con artists' crap to a bunch of your peers!

You have used up one of the three chances I allotted for me to prove you wrong. You only have 2 left. Use them wisely.

 

[STR8UP]

Or, that post is complete crap that anyone could have done given the right timing and resources and you were lucky enough to have done it by taking advantages of those two variables.

Now it's timing and "resources"? What happened to "monopoly"? Oh yea, I cut that thread you were trying to hang on by.

This brings us to another point that folks like you try to use as an excuse, and that is "He started with more than I did which gave him an advantage".

I started with nothing. My parents helped me buy my first car for $1800 and my uncle cosigned for my first loan. Other than that, all of my resources were the result of hard work and the knowledge I gained from trying new things.

Once again, your feeble attempts to come up with excuses hold no water. The only thing that I can't argue against specifically is the timing aspect, because that CAN influence the outcome.

This however, does not change the fact that despite a very few variables that are out of one's control, the majority of credit deserves to go to the self made wealthy person who spends years or even decades doing things that people like you are unwilling to do, aren't smart enough to do, or write off as impossible.

Your unwillingness to acknowledge people's accomplishments shows how weak your argument is. You can't even admit that 10% of a person's actions (when it is actually more like 95%+) because by doing so you will expose your theories as unfounded bunk.

You know what really p1sses me off? I did sound for the author of "Rich Dad/Poor Dad"-- and had to sit through his BULLSH1T seminar while he convinced poor people that there was a "path to economic freedom." [with purchase of his literature of course]. I can't believe that you would sincerely recommend this OBVIOUS con artists' crap to a bunch of your peers!

Of course, to a narrow minded individual who has no investment experience and is unwilling to learn because "it's all about luck anyway", it's ALL going to be crap.

Get some real world experience with business and investing, then come back and tell us what can and can't work.

On second thought, forget it. You could bust your ass for years and when something doesn't work out all you have to do is give up and cry about how UNLUCKY you were. You should probably just stick to wiring sound.

You have used up one of the three chances I allotted for me to prove you wrong. You only have 2 left. Use them wisely.

Um, yea...try actually responding to my questions first. Once you establish some sort of credibility maybe we can have a real discussion.

 

[Duffdog]

You are burning up your three chances. This is the second one.

Now it's timing and "resources"? What happened to "monopoly"? Oh yea, I cut that thread you were trying to hang on by.

Not true. Your path to "wealth" (which I am still skeptical of by the way) was created by both timing and the attempt at creating an implied monopoly. In your case it should more accurately be called an oligopoly because you technically will have competition near your rental houses, but not always. When someone wants to rent a house, they consider many variables which lead them inevitably to the house that you own and rent. There are no other choices for them that match their exact criteria, giving you a monopoly and the ability to charge a premium. I bet you a box of donuts that every house you rent DOES NOT have an exact equivalent house right next to it that your "customer" could rent instead. Most of the other properties are either already rented or owned by another party and therefore unavailable to them. Thus, you have created an implied monopoly and can charge a premium for rent which is higher than the loan amount. If you did not create a monopolistic style environment through your careful choice of property, you would have to compete with the hundreds of other rental properties on the basis of price, which would obviously cut into your profit margin. Since you do not have to compete, you do have an implied monopoly.

This brings us to another point that folks like you try to use as an excuse, and that is "He started with more than I did which gave him an advantage".

I started with nothing. My parents helped me buy my first car for $1800 and my uncle cosigned for my first loan. Other than that, all of my resources were the result of hard work and the knowledge I gained from trying new things.

I don't care about your family history thank you very much.

Once again, your feeble attempts to come up with excuses hold no water. The only thing that I can't argue against specifically is the timing aspect, because that CAN influence the outcome.

The theory is not mine, nor is it an excuse. Those axioms have been adhered to since the beginning of time. The very first entity to utilize this theory was religion. They created a monopoly on God, and if you wanted to go to heaven, you had to do what they said. It still works for them currently. Going beyond that, you can't argue with either of the two facts I put forth because they have stood the tests of time. They are not "mine" and I don't claim them. I'm not that petty nor vain.

This however, does not change the fact that despite a very few variables that are out of one's control, the majority of credit deserves to go to the self made wealthy person who spends years or even decades doing things that people like you are unwilling to do, aren't smart enough to do, or write off as impossible.

Those "very few variables" you mention are what dictates success or failures. While they are small in number, they are massive in effect. The problem with your reasoning is that not everyone can be rich no matter what they do or how hard they try. The instant that everyone "can" become rich, nobody is rich. I'm sure you can understand this simple point. See my signature from a very well known philosopher for details.

Your unwillingness to acknowledge people's accomplishments shows how weak your argument is. You can't even admit that 10% of a person's actions (when it is actually more like 95%+) because by doing so you will expose your theories as unfounded bunk.

Or, that those laws of economics (not theories) do not require defending since they have transcended and are found in every business which has ever existed at any time without any exceptions. The idea that wealth is something that is just sitting there for the taking and all that is required to seize it is some good old fashioned elbow grease and hand shaking is just about the most naive thing I have ever read. Wealth is distributed among people, when one gets rich, another must get poor. Its that simple. Resources are scarce and people are inherently nasty about losing them. They only surrender their resources when they have to. You are one of the people who force them to surrender their resources so that you become rich. Congratulations.

Of course, to a narrow minded individual who has no investment experience and is unwilling to learn because "it's all about luck anyway", it's ALL going to be crap.

Yeah, I forgot, I am such a narrow minded economic forecasting specialist with no idea what I am talking about when it comes to the economy. Oh...wait, you didn't know that I forecasted the economy for the State of California when I was in college. Now I remember, you thought that all I did was hook up wires to speakers.

Get some real world experience with business and investing, then come back and tell us what can and can't work.

This discussion isn't about me, as my investments with business and the stock market are paying off handsomely. Again, thank you very much. I don't feel like "telling you what can and can't work" because that subject is too vast to cover on a website. It requires lots of study and diligence to read books that don't tell you how to Get Rich Quick.

On second thought, forget it. You could bust your ass for years and when something doesn't work out all you have to do is give up and cry about how UNLUCKY you were. You should probably just stick to wiring sound.

And the truth comes out! Thanks STR8UP for your wonderful career advise. Unfortunately, due to my highly adept experience with the economy and my ability to see through scams and recognize economic trends, I will most likely eclipse EVEN YOU (as if you are some sort of benchmark) in wealth by sticking with sound economic principles instead of reading books written by a bunch of crackhead scam artists. Then, when the sands of time prove that the real estate boom was not "the safest, low risk investment", you can be the one crying.

Um, yea...try actually responding to my questions first. Once you establish some sort of credibility maybe we can have a real discussion.

Um, yea...I'm not sure that you are credible on any other level than a post on a PUA website. Yet, I have degrees in this sort of thing. The balance of credibility is on my side. I'm not answering your questions because they are so far reaching that they go beyond the scope of even your rantings. Its like asking the question: Why are we here?


Something just occured to me. Why are you posting this on a PUA website without first having it looked over by economics professionals? It seems like you would be better served to have people in the field evaluate your ideas first before deciding that they are applicable to anyone else. In addition to that, you could avoid that off-chance that someone who actually knows what they are talking about (me) would come reply to your post and slam you back to the stone age. The fact that I just happened upon this post sort of makes you wonder about what occurs via "luck" and what does not. It is lucky for anyone considering investing to read my replies and not make the biggest mistake of their life, but unlucky for you because it bruises your ego.

 

[j0n024]

What do you do if your young and dont have enough money to buy and rent/sell houses?

Is there anything on the low end for people that are beginners that they can do to make some cash on the side that will be worth doing?

I know working but is there anything else that you can do on the side that can bring in more income?

 

[strong like bull]

lol

troll?


Why are you posting this on a PUA website without first having it looked over by economics professionals? It seems like you would be better served to have people in the field evaluate your ideas first before deciding that they are applicable to anyone else. In addition to that, you could avoid that off-chance that someone who actually knows what they are talking about (me) would come reply to your post and slam you back to the stone age.

people in the field? of what... research?

people in the real world already know the potential upsides and downsides of investing in real estate. theres many resources by many successful people, available for the public to read. its nothing new. its not a monopoly. its not a scheme. or a scam. str8up didnt invent investing in real estate. its just a tool. one of many vehicles to achieve wealth. it doesnt mean its the all-mighty choice to become rich. its just something he chose. and he writes about here so that johnQpublic can get an introduction to it, in case they might want to choose it too.

as long as people like you and all the other economic forecasters need a building to live in, and buildings to do research in, someone like str8up will own it and you will pay him rent.

its an opportunity thats available to anyone whos determined and creative enough to take it. and anyone who takes it, owes it to themselves to do their homework and become educated on the matter before making any decisions.

whats the problem here?

-slb

 

[STR8UP]

slb- He's not a troll he's just a socialist who thinks a couple of economics classes makes him smarter than people who actually do make a lot of money.

jon024- with the internet and technology today there is no time in history that has been better to get involved with business for very little money. the current economy is in bad shape, but that just means that if you were able to find something that you can generate a small profit with today that you will be in prime position when things turn around.

Look around you for things that might make other people's lives easier or better. Find a way to get it to them cheaper and higher quality. Learn about branding and marketing- they are KEY to building something that can take on a life of its own.

Also....I have mentioned this before, but your best move if you have some free time might be to find someone who is already accomplished and donate your time to them in exchange for an education. If you are sincere, hard working, and reasonably intelligent there are people who would love to teach an apprentice.

If you did not create a monopolistic style environment through your careful choice of property, you would have to compete with the hundreds of other rental properties on the basis of price, which would obviously cut into your profit margin. Since you do not have to compete, you do have an implied monopoly.

Wow, that was PROFOUND.

Are you seriously going to try to shoehorn your monopoly theory into this by claiming that I have somehow magically eliminated competition? You ARE kidding, right?

This thread is 22 pages long, and out of the handful of misinformed replies, this has to take the cake as the most ridiculous. Seriously man, you're trying too hard. I almost spit out my iced tea when I started reading about how I created this "rental monopoly".

]I don't care about your family history thank you very much.

Of course you don't, because as with the questions you choose to not to answer, you have no reply that supports your stance. You could at least fall back on your default "it's because you got lucky" theory. It's still the weakest of the weak but at least you would be congruent.

The theory is not mine, nor is it an excuse. Those axioms have been adhered to since the beginning of time.

I would like to know where you learned these "axioms", because i have read up on quite a few wealthy folks and the only place I have ever encountered such quackery as your theories on monopolies were from conspiracy theorists, NOT people who have "made it".

The very first entity to utilize this theory was religion. They created a monopoly on God, and if you wanted to go to heaven, you had to do what they said.

It is quite interesting how you keep mentioning monopolies as if the people of the world are utterly incapable of making their own decisions. This of course falls directly in line with your idea that luck is the only thing you can have on your side, because by giving any sort of credence to the idea that people have the capacity to decide things for themselves you would have to concede that there might actually be some talent involved.

The problem with your reasoning is that not everyone can be rich no matter what they do or how hard they try. The instant that everyone "can" become rich, nobody is rich.

For the hundredth time, I clearly stated that not everyone WILL become rich, but anyone CAN become rich if they do the right things.

Maybe all of these "lucky" people should just stop trying, because according your your way of thinking, 8000 people bust their asses for nothing to every 1 that gets lucky.

You know what would happen if that were true? Well, we would probably all still be living in caves and clubbing a woolly mammoth for dinner. If everyone believed the crap you speak there would BE NO CIVILIZATION as we know it, because everyone would be sitting on the sidelines. No cars, no grocery stores, no houses.....NOTHING.

I suppose you will find some way to explain the advancement of civilization as luck too. Can't wait to hear that....

Or, that those laws of economics (not theories) do not require defending since they have transcended and are found in every business which has ever existed at any time without any exceptions.

Again, show me something other than liberal slanted socialist propaganda to support your theory.

The idea that wealth is something that is just sitting there for the taking and all that is required to seize it is some good old fashioned elbow grease and hand shaking is just about the most naive thing I have ever read.

There's a little more to it than that, but those who refuse to even take a step in the right direction will certainly never see it....

Wealth is distributed among people, when one gets rich, another must get poor. Its that simple. Resources are scarce and people are inherently nasty about losing them.

There is a reason why socialism and communism have failed, and that is because you can't go against the grain of human nature which is to ensure your own well being and that of your offspring over and above that of others.

I'm sure you make decent money hooking up sound. Probably more than a teacher or a police officer. How do you reconcile taking a larger share of the pie than a public servant? Why does a lawyer make more money than a busboy?

Maybe you can explain your magic formula for determining who deserves to make how much money? Or feel free to skip this question since it happens to be another one of those that you can't possibly find a logical answer to....

They only surrender their resources when they have to. You are one of the people who force them to surrender their resources so that you become rich. Congratulations.

Shame on me for profiting on the risks I take! It isn't like I am actually providing a SERVICE for other people! Maybe if someone can't afford to buy a house they should be left out on the street? No, maybe we should all (everyone but the government fat cats, that is) live in government housing. Maybe all of our houses should be the same and doctors should make the same amount of money as the lawn guy. Sounds like quite the utopia!

Oh...wait, you didn't know that I forecasted the economy for the State of California when I was in college. Now I remember, you thought that all I did was hook up wires to speakers.

Then i would expect you to be a little more versed in money than you are.

This discussion isn't about me, as my investments with business and the stock market are paying off handsomely. Again, thank you very much. I don't feel like "telling you what can and can't work" because that subject is too vast to cover on a website. It requires lots of study and diligence to read books that don't tell you how to Get Rich Quick.

Of course this discussion isn't about you, because you are talking about something you know little to nothing about.

Your stock market investments are paying off handsomely eh? Last I heard the stock market was in the same toilet that the real estate market is in. Or were you just LUCKY enough to have picked the few stocks that are worth more today than they were 5 years ago?

Again with the "get rich quick" line. Are you done with that? Cause I have repeatedly stated that I advocate nothing of the sort. This is just another one of those things that you try to use as ammunition against things you don't understand.

And please, share with us the titles of a few of these books that teach you the "right" way to build wealth.

, due to my highly adept experience with the economy and my ability to see through scams and recognize economic trends, I will most likely eclipse EVEN YOU (as if you are some sort of benchmark) in wealth by sticking with sound economic principles instead of reading books written by a bunch of crackhead scam artists.

All of us are still waiting for you to shower us with these "sound economic principles" but you keep going off on different tangents with looney, incoherent associations to the subject at hand.

Um, yea...I'm not sure that you are credible on any other level than a post on a PUA website. Yet, I have degrees in this sort of thing.

A degree in wealth? HAH!

You went to school and they taught you the skills necessary to work for someone else on a micro level and to keep to your own little place in society. Society taught you to automatically discredit anything that goes against what you learn in school, and your parents probably instilled socialist ideas into your head. That's quite the recipe for a hater who lacks the capacity to think for himself, which is what you have shown yourself to be.

I used to hold a lot of the same beliefs you do. Back in high school, that is. Before I had any EXPERIENCE. Then I grew up. I got out into the real world and started businesses, purchased, remodeled, and rented properties, and dabbled in the stock market. I learned REAL QUICK that much of what I was taught growing up was stale advice given to me by people with zero real world experience on the subject. My parents and my entire extended family was middle class and constantly struggling. yet they would try to give me advice on how to get ahead in life. I learned that much of what is taught is there for the benefit of OTHERS, not myself, no matter how well intentioned.

The balance of credibility is on my side. I'm not answering your questions because they are so far reaching that they go beyond the scope of even your rantings. Its like asking the question: Why are we here?

Once again, you don't answer because your answer would either make you look like a fool or would expose your ideas as a farce.

 

[STR8UP]

Something just occured to me. Why are you posting this on a PUA website without first having it looked over by economics professionals?

What exactly is an "economic professional"? A pencil pusher with a degree who has never started a business or owned a piece of property in his life?

It seems like you would be better served to have people in the field evaluate your ideas first before deciding that they are applicable to anyone else.

People in the field? You mean someone with a college degree sitting in a office collecting a paycheck, or a seasoned entrepreneur who actually WRITES the paychecks? There's a world of difference between the two.

It is lucky for anyone considering investing to read my replies and not make the biggest mistake of their life, but unlucky for you because it bruises your ego.

I am actually very glad that you replied to this post, because it has allowed me to show how easy it is for an armchair quarterback to sit around and make 1001 excuses why something that they have no experience in cannot work (because you have to be a criminal and the fate of the universe has to be on your side!), and at the same time offer absolutely ZERO feedback as to how you are SUPPOSED to do it.

I'm sure your socialist ideology will serve you well, but to be honest with you, after reading the first paragraph that I responded to above, I have zero respect for your POV.

Cmon man.....I created a monopoly on rental property? I've never heard of anything so ridiculously stupid.

Time for me to move on from this. I will answer people's legitimate questions to the best of my ability if they want to learn, but I'm done debating your silly socialist theories on luck and monopolies and such.

Good luck.

 

[j0n024]

So taking some classes in marketing would be a good idea? Or would one be better off taking classes in something else?

I dont really know anyone close by that really does this sort of thing, but if you have some information maybe an e-book or something along those lines I would be really interested.