Beginners guide to becoming WEALTHY

[Jon55]

Ha ha.

If you want to know more about money....this isn't the forum.

There's more reliable forums out there.

Besides...this advice..(no offense) would mess you up real bad in this economy. It was good at the time.

Which forums!? (this'll be my third time asking)

 

[erivera571]

I'm wondering, at the age of 20, and with a credit score of 720ish, what would be my chances of getting approved for a loan on a cheap foreclosure property for example?

 

[Duffdog]

I'm wondering, at the age of 20, and with a credit score of 720ish, what would be my chances of getting approved for a loan on a cheap foreclosure property for example?

0% chance. The banks aren't lending anything to anyone unless you have 20% down in cash and make 80,000+ year. Also, banks are now using 'secret' rating methods to decide whether or not to give you a loan. You no longer have access to your true credit rating as FICO is now irrelevant.

STR8UP--

Its saddening to me that you are not looking around yourself at the problems with the commercial real estate market. In Northern California, there is over a 12% vacancy rate and commercial buildings are falling into foreclosure daily. Making money off commercial property is over, making money off renting out houses is also over. One other thing, if you have ever owned a house and rented it out-- you are liable for all the taxes and incidental things that break. Things always break with renters.


Like I said before-- REAL ESTATE IS OVER! Let me know when all the real estate investments you have fall into foreclosure, because they will. The fastest growing trend around here is for people to squat at a house for as long as possible because they know that the Sheriffs are so backed up with evictions that it will take up to 3 months to physically get them out. Or, the latest trend that I'm sure you will like-- renters and homeowners just stop paying rent/mortgage altogether with the intention of extorting money from the bank or homeowner in the form of: "If you don't pay me 1000 dollars, I will trash this house when I move out" Again, knowing that the Sheriff is so backed up with evictions that nothing will ever happen to the renters and they can just move on to the next rental house after trashing the one they are in.

 

[STR8UP]

0% chance. The banks aren't lending anything to anyone unless you have 20% down in cash and make 80,000+ year. Also, banks are now using 'secret' rating methods to decide whether or not to give you a loan. You no longer have access to your true credit rating as FICO is now irrelevant.

Banks won't loan you money unless you make $80k per year? Where did you get this information from?

One other thing, if you have ever owned a house and rented it out-- you are liable for all the taxes and incidental things that break. Things always break with renters.

Toilets leak, tenants tear things up, and A/C units need repairs. Been there, done that. Your point?

How many properties have you owned in your life?

I've owned quite a few, so I am fully aware of the expenses that can and/or will be incurred.

Incidentally, this is one of the things that people who know nothing about real estate love to bring up, even after you clearly state that expenses need to be factored in before you calculate potential return.

Like I said before-- REAL ESTATE IS OVER!

^:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:^

So is the stock market "over" too? Last I checked it's been doing about the same thing that the real estate market has. Should people bury their money in the back yard? What should everyone do? it sounds like you have all of the answers. Or are you just one of those folks who always has an opinion of what not to do but never offers any ideas on what you should do?

What do you think is going to happen to the real estate market? Are prices going to go down to zero? Are prices going to freeze and never go up?

I'd love to know exactly why you think it's "dead".

 

[Duffdog]

Banks won't loan you money unless you make $80k per year? Where did you get this information from?



Toilets leak, tenants tear things up, and A/C units need repairs. Been there, done that. Your point?

How many properties have you owned in your life?

I've owned quite a few, so I am fully aware of the expenses that can and/or will be incurred.

Incidentally, this is one of the things that people who know nothing about real estate love to bring up, even after you clearly state that expenses need to be factored in before you calculate potential return.



^:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:^

So is the stock market "over" too? Last I checked it's been doing about the same thing that the real estate market has. Should people bury their money in the back yard? What should everyone do? it sounds like you have all of the answers. Or are you just one of those folks who always has an opinion of what not to do but never offers any ideas on what you should do?

What do you think is going to happen to the real estate market? Are prices going to go down to zero? Are prices going to freeze and never go up?

I'd love to know exactly why you think it's "dead".

Fine, If you really want to know Ill tell you.

The information you are about to read is not available anywhere else except via direct invitation to the conferences and was never printed anywhere because it was considered too toxic to disperse to the media.

I own a sound company. Sound companies are routinely asked to do sound for concerts and other events. Under "other events" I did sound for the California Real Estate Association, the Society of International Investment Bankers and Countrywide Financial. There were other relevant events that I was physically present at and listened to. The meeting planners never count on the sound technicians actually being intelligent and listening to what is being said, but I did anyways. And took notes.

These events took place right as the Real Estate market was crashing in 2007. Upon watching numerous charts and explanations about how the market sucked, Michael Lyon himself made the statement that there was no hope of the real estate market returning to profitability for 10 years. What has to happen in order for the market to return to profitability is that all the "new money investors" must be starved out of the market. Meaning, when all the poor people who used leverage to acquire real estate have been stripped of their investments, the real investors will step in and take over everything again so that the market resembles the conditions of 2001. Until that time, all the real investors and buyers, as well as banks, will sit on the sidelines. They will patiently wait for every investment property to default and for all the small players to get stomped on before they begin to stabilize the market by acquiring large chunks of it. Only when large chunks of the market begin to fall back into the oligopoly of players that existed in 2001, will anyone make any money. Until that time, count on every sale being lowballed and buyers looking for fire-sale prices only.

One would like to believe that there are tons of houses for sale that are good investments available at a discount. That is not the case. If you do a quick search of mortgage defaults by zip code you will find that less than 8% of mortgages in desirable areas are defaulting, yet 45% of mortgages in new developments are defaulting. What does that tell you? That tells you that the profitable properties are only available to those who ALREADY HAD MONEY before the real estate crash and the investors who used leverage to get property are defaulting left and right.

To get rich in a depression, you need to be able to create monopolies to destroy your competition. While a formal monopoly is strictly forbidden by law, implied monopolies are impossible to prove. Say you are an investor. In order to make a profit in a down economy, you need to find some way to prevent your customers from going to your competition or prevent your competition from operating. Investing in one house while there are 10 for sale down the street, all owned by different investors will get you nowhere and you won't make any money. If you were a smart investor, you would wait until the huge number of properties for sale dissipates. Then, buy one investment property with the knowledge that you will make less on that transaction but your time-horizon will be shorter. Nobody will make any money on any investment anywhere until the conditions of the 2001 economy return.

 

[strong like bull]

i know a guy who came down from canada, bought a decent house for 40k and in a months time did the necessarily repairs and found a renter. he will probably be making 300-500/m off renting it out. hes planning to come back down soon to pick up another.

also, theres programs out here in arizona (dunno if its nationwide) that help low-income families buy real estate. not only is it easier to qualify, but for first time buyers, some programs actually GIFT you 2.5% of the mortgage to put towards the downpayment/closing costs, and also give you the option of running a second loan of up to 7% of the first loan, at a low interest amortized over 20 years, to put towards the down payment and closing costs.

in other words, it gives people with low income, or people who SHOW low income (servers, bartenders) a chance to buy their first home. without having to have large sums of money up front. its a million times easier for me to buy a house now than 2 years ago.

the stuff you posted about is pretty scary. that kind of greed and self-centered attitude by the traditional financial industry is in the dump in the first place. people whos attitude is always take-take-take at the expense of others will always get whats coming to them.

im very interested to see how everything will play out. but i still see people finding great deals. and if they have the money, they wont be turned down.

-slb

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

What I have seen here in Ohio in the last 10 years was the movement of ma and pa "house flipping" operations. Real estate became the big trough that everybody and their mother was trying to gorge themselves on, it was inevitable that the subsequent artificially inflated demand in housing would cause prices to balloon until, finally, popping. Real estate was the "easy money" that anyone could get into, the California Gold Rush of the early 21st century. Fools rushed in.

I am always wary of "easy money". I prefer the business route. Visionary thinking, faith, intuition, courage, etc. are the qualities rewarded in business.
Far be that from the Mass Psychology tactics of the Real Estate Seminar Biz which was also thriving in these years, they were the same guys who conned your grandmother over the phone.

 

[STR8UP]

1) You didn't answer any of my questions except where you heard this "real estate is dead" info

2) Nowhere in this info you presented did it even mention that real estate is "dead".

3) If you took the time to read the initial post you would see that this isn't a "get rich quick" scheme. Temporary price fluctuations are irrelevant, although if you bought correctly (positive cash flow) you wouldn't have been buying ANYTHING during the time when RE was going through the roof, so you wouldn't have bought high anyway.

Why is it that the naysayers seem to skim over the initial post and throw out commentary without even thinking about what they are saying?

Fact- real estate, the stock market, and the economy in general WILL rebound.

Fact- When you are able to secure an asset that pays for itself and produces a positive cash flow, it doesn't matter if the market sputters. All that matters is that you come out ahead in the end. Are there any guarantees that you will make a capital gain profit in the end? Of course not. If you want guarantees you should stick with government bonds and savings accounts that don't even keep up with inflation.

Fact- It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the numbers together to realize that real estate that produces a positive cash flow is by far one of the safest investment vehicles proportionate to return. You can talk about leaky pipes and how the roof is gonna cave in all day long, but if you haven't owned property you have NOOO idea what you are talking about. I have owned properties that range from brand new and never occupied to 50+ years old....I KNOW what to expect. Your point is moot because these expenses are factored in before you buy anything. You are grasping for straws to support a weak argument.

Listen, believe it or not, I know a thing or two about this game. You can choose to ignore any advice given due to personal pre-conceptions or because "you can't get good financial advice on a message board for picking up women", but like many other things in life, you would do well to open your eyes to some "unconventional wisdom" since conventional wisdom is what tends to keeps people from ever reaching their true potential.

Go to a forum that SPECIALIZES in this kinda stuff.

THIS FORUM is focused on getting women...NOT so much about money.

It's not the best site for dealing with money.

If you want to get a forum like that, go to a forum where everyone just talks only about money and specializes in that.

There's a nice tool called Google.


http://www.onlinetradersforum.com/

That's like going on a financial forum's anything else board and saying that you shouldn't be seeking advice about women on a money board.

For every one sosuave where you can mine nuggets of wisdom, there are ten sites like loveshack.

Care to revise your advice?

 

[STR8UP]

To get rich in a depression, you need to be able to create monopolies to destroy your competition...........Nobody will make any money on any investment anywhere until the conditions of the 2001 economy return.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from, but to say that "nobody will make any money on any investment until the 2001 economy returns" is utterly ridiculous.

That's like saying "the only way you can make money in the stock market is if the price of stocks go up". To the unsophisticated, traditional investor this might be true, but smart people know how to find returns no matter what the markets are doing. Today might not be the day to buy THAT particular piece of real estate, stock, or start THAT particular business, but rest assured, there are people making money every day of the week, regardless of what is going on around them.

 

[Duffdog]

1) You didn't answer any of my questions except where you heard this "real estate is dead" info

2) Nowhere in this info you presented did it even mention that real estate is "dead".

It will be dead for 10 years. End of story. Don't believe me or any of the real estate professionals who have been doing this longer than you have been alive? Go ahead and prove me wrong.

3) If you took the time to read the initial post you would see that this isn't a "get rich quick" scheme. Temporary price fluctuations are irrelevant, although if you bought correctly (positive cash flow) you wouldn't have been buying ANYTHING during the time when RE was going through the roof, so you wouldn't have bought high anyway.

It is impossible to predict when the peaks and valleys will and will not occur. Since you seem to know more than all the bankers, real estate professionals and stockbrokers put together, please explain.

Why is it that the naysayers seem to skim over the initial post and throw out commentary without even thinking about what they are saying?

If what was said mattered, I would have commented

Fact- real estate, the stock market, and the economy in general WILL rebound.

Duh, here is another fact: The sky is blue. The key is WHEN will these facts occur. Everything else is meaningless

Fact- When you are able to secure an asset that pays for itself and produces a positive cash flow, it doesn't matter if the market sputters. All that matters is that you come out ahead in the end. Are there any guarantees that you will make a capital gain profit in the end? Of course not. If you want guarantees you should stick with government bonds and savings accounts that don't even keep up with inflation.

I can see you have a very elementary understanding of economics. If your "investment" ceases to create revenue because everyone is doing what you are doing, only cheaper, then you have a liability and not a profit center.

Fact- It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the numbers together to realize that real estate that produces a positive cash flow is by far one of the safest investment vehicles proportionate to return. You can talk about leaky pipes and how the roof is gonna cave in all day long, but if you haven't owned property you have NOOO idea what you are talking about. I have owned properties that range from brand new and never occupied to 50+ years old....I KNOW what to expect. Your point is moot because these expenses are factored in before you buy anything. You are grasping for straws to support a weak argument.

That is not a fact. It is a fact that is WAS one of the safest investment vehicles. Not anymore. You cannot tell the future any better than I can. Forget the leaky pipes thing-- 1 in 10 homeowners is defaulting in the US. Do I own property? Yes, was I stupid enough to get caught up in the "rental property" market boom of 2005? NO.

Listen, believe it or not, I know a thing or two about this game. You can choose to ignore any advice given due to personal pre-conceptions or because "you can't get good financial advice on a message board for picking up women", but like many other things in life, you would do well to open your eyes to some "unconventional wisdom" since conventional wisdom is what tends to keeps people from ever reaching their true potential.

I believe that you know a thing or two about a thing or two and your investments have paid off. But, the abuse of credit from people trying to be like you in the real estate market has destroyed the economy beyond repair. In a way, the downfall of the economy is the fault of people like you using "unconventional" wisdom to get rich quick. I will concede to not knowing much about rental real estate if you will concede that people trying to get into the real estate market 6 years ago are the direct cause of the recession we are in.

That's like going on a financial forum's anything else board and saying that you shouldn't be seeking advice about women on a money board.

For every one sosuave where you can mine nuggets of wisdom, there are ten sites like loveshack.

Care to revise your advice?

Here's some advise: Go to college, get an advanced degree. Then do something which benefits the world instead of trying to 'outsmart' it. If it doesn't work out for you, rectify your inferiority without inflicting harm unto others.

 

[STR8UP]

Here's some advise: Go to college, get an advanced degree. Then do something which benefits the world instead of trying to 'outsmart' it. If it doesn't work out for you, rectify your inferiority without inflicting harm unto others.

You probably think this would get a negative reaction from me, but in fact I am glad you posted this.

Why, you ask?

Because this explains a lot about why you would post what you have posted, and it is the perfect opportunity for everyone to see the defeatist mindset that people who really do aspire for something more than working 40 hours per week until they are old need to avoid like the plague.

I seriously doubt that you will bother to answer any of the following questions, seeing that you haven't had an answer for any as of yet, but i will pose them anyway so others can see the flaws in your "logic".

Question #1- What is it about having an "advanced degree" that makes you better than someone who doesn't have one?

Question #2- What exactly do you consider to be a "benefit" to the world?

A doctor? A lawyer? A social worker? An engineer?

You are implying that the guy who owns a trucking company that delivers produce to the grocery store isn't benefiting society? What about the person who owns the apartment that you rent before you buy a house? The person who starts a new airline? How about the guy who owns a vodka company? The dude who started Girls Gone Wild?

As you can see, I purposefully listed these in a certain order. The reason I did this is because it forces you and others to see it for what it is. What exactly constitutes a "benefit to society"? Most high school janitors or even teachers for that matter don't have "advanced degrees", but few would argue that they benefit society. Exactly what criteria do you use to decide whther or not something is beneficial?

Question #3- How am I "inflicting harm" on anyone?

Question #4- What exactly is it that leads you to believe that someone who aspires to achieve wealth has an "inferiority complex"?

I love the things that I do, I sleep well at night knowing that I provide useful goods and services, and I can assure you that I don't feel "inferior" anything of the sort.

Please, enlighten us......

 

[strong like bull]

not just business owners, but also the people who went to college, got the advanced degree, moved forward with the 9-5 mindset... only to be recently laid off... understand this real well:

-a dollar is a dollar. no matter how you (legally and morally) make it
-having money work for you, can be much more satisfying and profitable than working for money
-the only true job-security that exists, is when you own your own business/enterprise and make your own moves
-traditional schooling only teaches you to be obedient and only trains you to be the pawn of another mans business, working 9-5 to make him rich. does your employer really have you, and your family's best interests in mind?

one of the best ways to benefit society is to help unravel the constraints of the traditional education system. teach people how to think outside the box. how to think for themselves. how to think big and on higher levels.

dont be the horse, endlessly following the carrot. be the man riding the horse.

-slb

 

[CosMoenTropic]

ST8UP and others, I am just wondering, what are your primary sources of income?

I agree with the mindset and beliefs that you are promoting; however, I am not so sure about completly abadoning the traditional idea of working for a big company, getting promoted, and having a comfortable and steady income stream, and instead become completely independent and outsmart everybody else in doing so.

If you were a college graduate from a good school about to become a business professional, have a good steady job, with good job prospects, what would you do in his shoe?

A lot of kids from poor families choose to become doctors, lawyers, business professionals instead because they have no base to work on. They come from poor families without any business holdings or assets. They need to build their money and wealth first, and so they work for others. Not everybody can start their own business, or have the means to assume the risk(a rich kid might be able to afford losing his investment and still have something to fall back on without becoming homeless). What do you think about these poor kids trying to make their way into society? What would you do in their shoes?

 

[STR8UP]

ST8UP and others, I am just wondering, what are your primary sources of income?

I agree with the mindset and beliefs that you are promoting; however, I am not so sure about completly abadoning the traditional idea of working for a big company, getting promoted, and having a comfortable and steady income stream, and instead become completely independent and outsmart everybody else in doing so.

If you were a college graduate from a good school about to become a business professional, have a good steady job, with good job prospects, what would you do in his shoe?

A lot of kids from poor families choose to become doctors, lawyers, business professionals instead because they have no base to work on. They come from poor families without any business holdings or assets. They need to build their money and wealth first, and so they work for others. Not everybody can start their own business, or have the means to assume the risk(a rich kid might be able to afford losing his investment and still have something to fall back on without becoming homeless). What do you think about these poor kids trying to make their way into society? What would you do in their shoes?

Richard Branson was a dyslexic kid who got poor grades in school. He started a magazine at age 16. He bought a carribean island at age 22. Today he is worth over $4 billion.

There is no such thing as "can't".

 

[Duffdog]

Question #1- What is it about having an "advanced degree" that makes you better than someone who doesn't have one?

I didn't say anywhere that having a degree makes you better than another person, did I? But, there is a benefit to having a degree. The benefit is that as a person achieves higher and higher status in a field, they become a specialist in a particular area. Isn't it great how people can be the ultimate authority on a very narrow and esoteric subject because they have devoted time and effort to studying it? The subject of "advantages of being educated" is too vast an idea to attempt to cover in a post.



Question #2- What exactly do you consider to be a "benefit" to the world?

I find it laughable that people believe that there will always be something to "sell" or "rent" from which they can make money. But, how was all that stuff created? Some people have to create the things that you are selling. You would like me to answer a question as far reaching as "what is beneficial to the world"...as if anyone can possibly answer that correctly. Since you seem to like philosophical arguments, the answer is as follows: "That which provides the greatest good for the greatest number"

Question #3- How am I "inflicting harm" on anyone?

Finally, a real question. I was waiting for one. By putting forth the idea that any idiot can go out and make billions of dollars using your "method", you are one step above a pyramid schemer who promises unlimited wealth with no risk. The fact is, there are risks in everything and for every example you can name as a success, there were 200 failures and 30 suicides because of it.


Question #4- What exactly is it that leads you to believe that someone who aspires to achieve wealth has an "inferiority complex"?

You misinterpreted the theme of the advise. Maybe you should have stayed in school and received an advanced degree to better understand the concept of inference. So close, yet so far...pity. Anyways, the point of "rectifying your inferiority" comes about as one realizes that he just isn't lucky enough to be in the .0000000056% of the uneducated population who starts a business and succeeds. Instead, it fails as so many have in the past. Once the inferiority has been rectified, the person can find their true place in the world and not worry about trying to be rich and famous day in and day out and just find other pleasures in life. As an answer to your question (which is in no way related to my advise btw). What does making a bunch of money actually get you? Does having a better car mean that you are now happy? How about 6 more rental houses? That will make you happy, huh! At what point does the accumulation of things define the person? I will posit that it never does, it is merely a void which the person seeks to fill with anything to avoid feeling empty. Yet, the emptiness is still there, forever widening the gap between what you need to be happy and what you have. Much like the males on this site look to distract themselves by fvcking an ever increasing number of females, as if THAT will make them happy...wierd how that works, huh! If having females at your beck and call won't make you happy, and large quantities of things also won't make you happy, what then is the magic thing that creates happiness? The knowledge that not everyone needs or should be rich is a start, it is not the end all of human existence to "get rich."

 

[STR8UP]

I didn't say anywhere that having a degree makes you better than another person, did I?

You didn't have to say it. You implied it by the tone of your post.

But, there is a benefit to having a degree. The benefit is that as a person achieves higher and higher status in a field, they become a specialist in a particular area. Isn't it great how people can be the ultimate authority on a very narrow and esoteric subject because they have devoted time and effort to studying it? The subject of "advantages of being educated" is too vast an idea to attempt to cover in a post.

And I can achieve status in the business world. I can specialize in anything I put enough effort into learning about. I can become an authority on anything I want and have a passion for it and even make money from it, and it doesn't require a degree to do so.

Formal education has its place, but I fail to see your point.

I find it laughable that people believe that there will always be something to "sell" or "rent" from which they can make money. But, how was all that stuff created? Some people have to create the things that you are selling.

So what you are saying is that the only people who provide "value to society" are the people who "create" things?

Why is it "laughable" that someone believes there is always something to sell or rent? What would you do without a grocery store or a clothing store? Would you run around naked and hunt for food?

Actually, I am creating something myself. I am developing a line of products that are related to the cosmetic industry. Does that mean that I am providing a value to society? How about the Girls Gone Wild dude? He created something, right? Or does it have to have "social" value (such as a cure for cancer) to be deemed by you as having a value to society? Who determines this?

You would like me to answer a question as far reaching as "what is beneficial to the world"...as if anyone can possibly answer that correctly. Since you seem to like philosophical arguments, the answer is as follows: "That which provides the greatest good for the greatest number"

You were the one who started talking about "benefiting the world". Is it wrong for me to ask how you determine what is and what isn't a benefit?

You make money off of rigging sound systems, if I understood you correctly. Is that more of a benefit to society than, say, the guy who washes your dishes after you eat at Fridays? The guy who films porn? The surgeon who does the triple bypass surgery on you giving you 20 more years to live? Nelson Mandella?

It seems to me that according to your personal definition of what is beneficial to society, your occupation isn't exactly "the most valuable to society", yet you find fault with other people's choice of occupations that no one can reasonably argue don't have a "place" in society. How do you reconcile this?

Finally, a real question. I was waiting for one. By putting forth the idea that any idiot can go out and make billions of dollars using your "method", you are one step above a pyramid schemer who promises unlimited wealth with no risk. The fact is, there are risks in everything and for every example you can name as a success, there were 200 failures and 30 suicides because of it.

Once again, your prejudice is rearing its ugly head.

There is a difference between "anyone CAN" and "anyone WILL". Yes, with enough determination just about anyone CAN do it. Not EVERYONE can but ANYONE can.

The problem for most people, for whatever reason, (having an attitude like yours would be one of them) is that they never WILL.

The really funny thing is you comparing this to a pyramid scheme. People have been building wealth from businesses and real estate since the dawn of time. Yet, because what I propose doesn't fit into your narrow mold of 'the right way to do things" you simply write it off as a "scheme".

Actually, the REALLY laughable thing is your idea that there are 30 suicides for every 200 failures and 1 success. I'm not going to even try to quote statistics, but I would be willing to bet that the suicide rate for people who pursue their dreams is quite a bit lower than the general public.

All too often you hear of a "disgruntled employee" going on a murder/suicide rampage. You don't often hear about the owner coming in and shooting up the place.

You misinterpreted the theme of the advise. Maybe you should have stayed in school and received an advanced degree to better understand the concept of inference.

Please, spare us.

I scored honors level on all of my college placement exams except math. Don't confuse my choice to drop out of college with a lack of intelligence.

Some people choose to use their brains to pursue a degree that will help them get a job working (for someone like me!). Others take their own path. Neither one is "right" or "wrong" as you would have us believe.

So close, yet so far...pity. Anyways, the point of "rectifying your inferiority" comes about as one realizes that he just isn't lucky enough to be in the .0000000056% of the uneducated population who starts a business and succeeds.

"Luck" huh?

Yea, that's it. you gotta be LUCKY. Everyone should stop trying RIGHT NOW, because we all know that you have no influence over things. It's all a crapshoot. You're better off playing the lottery.....

I know you don't even realize how insulting and ignorant that statement is, but it is exactly that- insulting and ignorant. People work extremely hard to build businesses. When you say they are "lucky" you are spitting in their face It takes blood, sweat, and tears to create the fruits of labor that you call luck.

Instead, it fails as so many have in the past.

Business failure stats do not tell the whole story. I have posted about this in the past.

If you know anything about business, you would know that the kind of person who is inclined to start a business is usually the type of person who doesn't give up easily. He understands that failure only happens when you stop trying.

So even though the statistics that say that the majority of businesses fail within five years are probably correct, that doesn't mean that the person who started the business failed.

I suppose you could say that I have started a half a dozen different businesses that have technically "failed". But the great thing about all of these experiences is that each one was bigger than the last, and each time I learned stuff that no school on the face of this earth could have ever taught me. I took my new found knowledge and other resources along with me into each project that I started. Now, over a decade later I am embarking on a new venture that draws upon everything I have learned in the past. I could probably walk away from everything tomorrow and just do consulting and make more money than I ever need to live, but that isn't my destiny. My passion lies elsewhere.

So although the statistics might show that most businesses are destined to fail, the lack of renewal of business licenses does not tell the entire story. It doesn't matter if the business fails. It matters that YOU don't stop trying because you can "fail" many times and still succeed.

If you don't understand this then there is nothing more I can say that will help you understand. I do however take solace in knowing that a lot of others who are reading this WILL be able to comprehend it and not allow your negativity to deter them.

Once the inferiority has been rectified, the person can find their true place in the world and not worry about trying to be rich and famous day in and day out and just find other pleasures in life.

People love to criticize others for pursuing a different path under the guise that the other person must feel "inferior" and must be trying to overcompensate for something. This is a shaming tactic and it is no better than those used by women to try to control men.

 

[STR8UP]

As an answer to your question (which is in no way related to my advise btw). What does making a bunch of money actually get you? Does having a better car mean that you are now happy? How about 6 more rental houses? That will make you happy, huh! At what point does the accumulation of things define the person? I will posit that it never does, it is merely a void which the person seeks to fill with anything to avoid feeling empty.

Of course, you have to be trying to compensate for something if you are driven to build wealth!

Shaming, shaming, an more shaming.

Where does this frame of mind come from? Your parents, I'm guessing. My parents never had the "money is the root of all evil" mentality, but they were never driven toward financial independence like I am. I heard the typical "No one needs or deserves that much money" crap, but luckily i was smart enough to see past it. They were trying to impose the limitations they had set for themselves and that their parents set for them onto me, but I didn't let it happen.

And that's what it is really about.....financial independence which eventually leads to financial security. It's not about dirty, evil MONEY, it's about knowing that if you were to get involved in a car accident and not be able to work for five years that your bills will be paid. You can't put a price on that sort of security.

A friend of mine always says "Anyone who says that money can't buy happiness never had any".

And I agree with him to a point. If the root of your UNhappiness lies in the fact that you have to lie awake at night stressing over how you are going to feed your family tomorrow, then money CAN help make you happy. But if you are looking to use it to buy material things to fill voids or to "buy love" you are going to be chasing your tail the rest of your life. Just don't ASSUME that anyone who aspires to become wealthy is doing so for the wrong reasons.

What you probably have never stopped to think about is that money is like a knife or a gun. It is not inherently good nor evil; it is good if you use it in the right way and bad if you abuse it.

Yet, the emptiness is still there, forever widening the gap between what you need to be happy and what you have. Much like the males on this site look to distract themselves by fvcking an ever increasing number of females, as if THAT will make them happy...wierd how that works, huh!

I don't spend hour upon hour each week trying to build and maintain a stable of women because that wouldn't make me happy. Building businesses and finding creative ways to make money makes me happy. The difference between the two of us is that I don't try to shame anyone into believing that they are less of a person because they aren't following what you personally feel is the "right path".

You might not find something enjoyable,but don't criticize others for doing things that they find rewarding.

If having females at your beck and call won't make you happy, and large quantities of things also won't make you happy, what then is the magic thing that creates happiness? The knowledge that not everyone needs or should be rich is a start, it is not the end all of human existence to "get rich."

So who "should" be rich? Who says this or that or the other won't make you happy?

Happiness is not something that you can put a formula to. It is one thing to one person and can be an entirely different thing to the next person.

It seems that you know what can or should make other people happy.

Would you care to share this with us? I would love to be happy, since the path i have chosen obviously isn't doing it for me

 

[Duffdog]

People have been building wealth from businesses and real estate since the dawn of time. Yet, because what I propose doesn't fit into your narrow mold of 'the right way to do things" you simply write it off as a "scheme".

The fact that you actually believe this statement makes it very difficult to explain any advanced concepts that deal with your field. Do you see any problems with making a statement like the above? It is increasingly difficult to create parallels for you to understand which go beyond something as simple as your theory of "riches=security" when you stick to an axiom like "since the beginning of time"...jeez Try picking up a history book sometime.

You want to know what the real benefit of a formal education is? It makes it easier to explain things to others that involve a high level of abstraction because you are more certain that they will "get it." I find it odd that you need to tell me that you scored highly on your entrance exams. As if those scores somehow dictate your future success.

Actually, nevermind, I understand completely your point of view and you are awesome. The "beginners guide to building wealth" is all you need in life, forget all formal education because obviously none of it matters. I'm sure that all the history and science you will learn about in school because its all just a bunch of crap designed to make you one of those "school robots." All that matters in life is your "will to succeed" and you can become rich in no time. Don't forget that being rich is the defining characteristic of all man, so if you aren't, you suck and need to buy some real estate. Then, once you have acquired enough money to build a security wall around yourself, you can sit back and tell everyone who spent time and effort on their degrees and studies that underneath it all they were really just idiots who could have "built wealth" instead of learning. Better still, don't even think of trying to tell these "wealth building guys" that there are other things to life, because if you do that, you were just jealous of their self-built wealth the whole time because people who aren't into wealth building must have psychological issues that stem from their upbringing.

I was so confused, thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[CosMoenTropic]

Str8up, I get your point

However, in order to build wealth according to your philosophy, one needs some kind of spark, or be in the right place at the right time, and to have everything fall right into place (opportunities come your way, the possibility of failure and risk never seem to enter the equation). I like your optimistic outlook, but don't we need to realistic sometimes?

I think the best advice is to get a good education, and have a decent salary first. Then, learn to SAVE! Start depositing into CD's, money markets, mutual funds, etc as a start. Then once you have enough capital and a job to fall back on can you start learning to wise up and do your own investing. Do you agree with this idea? Or do you believe people can just jump into the whole independent, money generating scheme and rely on that for the rest of their lives? Your examples all make sense, but they are very idealized and sometimes impractical if one doesn't take your advice with a grain of salt. Perhaps

For me, at least, I feel learning how to save and control spending habits is much more important than going out and investing as a primary source of income. If the majority of professionals cannot consistently beat the market, how can individuals rely on it as a steady income stream?

I agree having a degree without your sense of financial street smart is useless, but IMO investing and starting your own business should be left to those with some disposable income first ie. those with a good steady job and time on their hands. What advice do you have for recent college graduates by the way? Again, I like your style of thinking, but some of it is a bit too radical to me

 

[STR8UP]

The fact that you actually believe this statement makes it very difficult to explain any advanced concepts that deal with your field.....blah, blah, blah....

I brought up my intelligence because for some reason you keep talking about how I'm not smart enough to understand this and that because I don't have an "advanced degree", as if that is the only way that a person could comprehend what you are saying.

I'm not sure exactly what it is you have against people who think differently than you do, but when you resort to passive aggressive taunts and incoherent babbling as opposed to answering the questions I posed and explaining WHY you believe what you believe, I have no reason to respond. I know it must make your head hurt when you are presented with ideas that go against your narrow view of the world, but if you are going to try to discredit someone you should at least be able to make a case for it.

And now to respond to people who WANT to learn......

However, in order to build wealth according to your philosophy, one needs some kind of spark, or be in the right place at the right time, and to have everything fall right into place (opportunities come your way, the possibility of failure and risk never seem to enter the equation). I like your optimistic outlook, but don't we need to realistic sometimes?

If you wait around for the "right time" you will be waiting forever.

Some of the richest men in history started with nothing, and many lost their fortunes one or more times as they went along.

What exactly IS "realistic"?

This is what separates the guys who are buying islands at age 22, and guys who are practically destitute in their retirement years- their concept of what is realistic and what isn't.

I have always had the drive, but I didn't learn this until I was well in my 30's. I learned it the HARD way, because I had many of the concepts of reality that were instilled in me from my childhood. It took a lot of trial and error and a lot of pushing myself into unfamiliar territory and eventually realizing that the boogeymen that were supposedly there didn't even exist, but eventually it clicked that many of the limitations we have are self imposed and can be lifted by trying new things. And to be perfectly honest with you, to this very day I still start a new project with radical misconceptions about things. I see "boogeymen" that aren't really there. But I push myself to try new things, and each time I shatter a new barrier. It's a great feeling.

I think the best advice is to get a good education, and have a decent salary first. Then, learn to SAVE! Start depositing into CD's, money markets, mutual funds, etc as a start.

The "best" advice depends upon who the advice is given to.

For the risk averse person who would be worried to death about losing a penny, the best course of action might be to live like a hermit your entire life. There are people that are like this. When you die your kids sell your house and the people who buy it decide to put a swimming pool in the back yard and find a box buried with $500,000 in cash in it, while you lived in a roach infested cesspool. An extreme example for sure, but it does happen, and I personally don't want to live that way.....

The point I am trying to make is that some people just aren't cut out for it. Are you? The only person who can answer that is YOU.

Then once you have enough capital and a job to fall back on can you start learning to wise up and do your own investing. Do you agree with this idea?

I don't agree or disagree. That is one way of doing it. Another way is to go balls to the wall, sell everything you own and jump in head first.

Realistically, you will probably be somewhere in the middle. I did a stint in college and worked in sales, hospitality, and briefly in construction before I took the plunge. I did it when the time was right for ME. But to be honest with you I had to force myself to do it because I felt conmfortable suckling from the teat of "the system" that paid my bills.

It was very, very rough the first couple of years, but eventually I learned enough that I started making enough money to pay my bills, and from that point i never looked back.

Or do you believe people can just jump into the whole independent, money generating scheme and rely on that for the rest of their lives?

Whoa....whoa.....now you sound like some of the other posters.

This is no "scheme". It is not magical. It is not a get rich quick deal. It will require WORK. It will require SACRIFICE. It will require stepping out of your comfort zone.

Your examples all make sense, but they are very idealized and sometimes impractical if one doesn't take your advice with a grain of salt.

There is nothing idealized about it. You think this way because it is not within what you consider to be realistic due to the fact that you have never tried it.

A lot of people think that the "gurus" are being intentionally vague in what they teach, but it isn't that at all. There are many ways to skin a cat, and there is no "one size fits all" treasure map to wealth. If it were that simple THAT is what they would be selling and everyone would be wealthy, but it doesn't work that way.

Do you know how many PM's I got over the course of this thread asking me EXACTLY what they need to do to become wealthy? TONS. And my answer was the same every time- read what I posted, read the books I recommended, and go out there and DO SOMETHING. Even if you fall flat on your face. You have to create YOUR OWN personal treasure map based upon what you learn and your individual situation and even your personality.

For me, at least, I feel learning how to save and control spending habits is much more important than going out and investing as a primary source of income. If the majority of professionals cannot consistently beat the market, how can individuals rely on it as a steady income stream?

First off, I'm not recommending you try to "beat the market". I am recommending that you give yourself a competitive advantage by learning creative methods to acquire assets, and try, try, TRY, even if you fail, fail, FAIL. If you fail enough times you will eventually find your niche and it will all come together.

Secondly, there are two ways to increase your wealth- living below your means, or increasing your means.

What you are proposing is living below your means, or contraction. You make $50k, you spend $40k, you have $10k left over.

The problem with this is that your potential is limited. You can't save less than you make. If you make $50k and somehow you find a way to not ever spend a penny, you are still limited to having $50k left over.

It is much better to look at it from the other side of the coin, to INCREASE your means, to expand.

Some folks earn millions of dollar per year in salary. That isn't realistic for us mere mortals who aren't 7 feet tall and able to dunk a basketball or those of us who can't cry on cue in front of a movie camera. So the rest of us have to find other ways to expand our means. You can do this many different ways (creating your own treasure map) but the idea is to get involved in one or more of the asset classes (stocks, business, real estate) and learn how to increase your means exponentially.

Essentially, you shouldn't be saying "I can't afford that", you should be asking yourself "How CAN I afford that"?

I agree having a degree without your sense of financial street smart is useless, but IMO investing and starting your own business should be left to those with some disposable income first ie.

Having a degree is NOT useless, but you must learn to see it for what it is, which is a tool that allows you to obtain a job that can produce an income. That might be part of your individual plan, your "treasure map", but if it is the only thing you aren't going to go very far very fast.

What advice do you have for recent college graduates by the way? Again, I like your style of thinking, but some of it is a bit too radical to me

My advice for a recent college grad would be to pursue an occupation in your chosen field. Try it out. Maybe you will absolutely love it. If so, you can always do things on the side that can bring you closer to financial security.

Feel it out, but if you are like me and don't want to be working 40 hour weeks when you are 60, set a goal and figure out what it will take to get there. If your goal is to retire by the age of 55 and you are just getting out of college, you won't need to get aggressive starting businesses and such if that isn't your thing. Learn about the stock market, and maybe dabble in real estate.

If you are wanting to retire by the age of 40 or sooner you will probably have to learn to stomach higher risk (which is proportionate to your level of knowledge and can be negated by such) and you are going to have to learn how to do things other people will tell you are impossible. You have to be willing to sacrifice and willing to accept failure.

Whatever you do, don't listen to all of the people who say you can't do this or you shouldn't do that. As you can see by several posts in this thread there are plenty of them out there. These people are the AFC's of the world of money. All they are is crabs in a barrel trying to pull you back in.

You are better than that.