attitude on sosuave

[slaog]

First off, don't listen to this "If your g/f so much as talks to another guy while she's dating you, DUMP HER" crap.

There was a thread a while back asking could men and women be genuine friends. After reading that thread I came to the conclusion that they can only be friends if there is no sexual interest there. Thats why alot of women like to have gay men as friends.


My GF told me a few weeks ago that she had lunch (in McDonalds) with a guy. He is a neighbour of hers and they have known each other since kindergarden. I didn't see a problem with that because she sees him as a friend only.


I let her know though that its only appropiate in certain circumstances and she agreed and she also said she wouldn't like it if I was having meals with women. So at least she understands where I'm coming from.

 

[Mr. Me]

Outside of AWs, if she's having one on one lunches with other males, be they co-workers or not, then she's there for a reason. And it's not for the food, it's for the company, and by "company" I mean him. Even if it's innocent, it opens a door to what can be a slippery slope. That's the world we live in, and that's what can happen. And it does happen. Lots.

So, compare that to a woman who, when a co-worker or ex or guy at a bar or whoever says, "hey, how about we grab a bite to eat together you and me?" she says, "Oh, thanks, but no" because she's loyal to you. She knows he's not asking because of the food.

Love, gentlemen, is based on respect. If she really loves you, she needs to respect you. Not go off having drinks or lunch dates with other men, that's not respectful nor loving.

So you can be secure and confident and let her do whatever the f@ck she wants to do, and yes, you should be like that. But when you see what the f@ck she wants to do is hang with another man, know what you're looking at is disrespect.

 

[guru1000]

If she really loves you, she needs to respect you. Not go off having drinks or lunch dates with other men, that's not respectful nor loving.

But when you see what the f@ck she wants to do is hang with another man, know what you're looking at is disrespect.

Careful. Some people here believe a call back is enough respect.

 

[STR8UP]

Outside of AWs, if she's having one on one lunches with other males, be they co-workers or not, then she's there for a reason. And it's not for the food, it's for the company, and by "company" I mean him. Even if it's innocent, it opens a door to what can be a slippery slope. That's the world we live in, and that's what can happen. And it does happen. Lots.

So, compare that to a woman who, when a co-worker or ex or guy at a bar or whoever says, "hey, how about we grab a bite to eat together you and me?" she says, "Oh, thanks, but no" because she's loyal to you. She knows he's not asking because of the food.

Love, gentlemen, is based on respect. If she really loves you, she needs to respect you. Not go off having drinks or lunch dates with other men, that's not respectful nor loving.

So you can be secure and confident and let her do whatever the f@ck she wants to do, and yes, you should be like that. But when you see what the f@ck she wants to do is hang with another man, know what you're looking at is disrespect.

Here's the problem. That "door" is open as soon as she leaves the house.

This whole concept of your woman not being able to have male friends under any circumstances is ridiculous. If you don't allow your woman to have male friends then you might as well tell her she can't work. You think having lunch with a guy she's known for years before you met her is any different than her working late hours on a project with a male co-worker? It's "OK" if she's paid to hang out with a guy, huh? Not much logic there. I suppose you could argue that the "work dynamic" might help keep things in check, but I think I heard somewhere that the majority of affairs women have are with coworkers, so that defense is pretty weak.

I am Man enough not to be insecure about my woman, and I am smart enough to be able to spot disrespect. I don't need to start thumping my chest and draw lines in the sand to "keep my woman in line". She's gonna do what she's gonna do. The more you try to put her in a cage the more she's going to fight you.

The point is, there is no "fine line" between respect and disrespect. If you are with a disrespectful woman and you allow her to disrespect you, you deserve what you get.

And there's a big difference between "lunch dates" and catching up with an old friend. Your woman should know the difference and should not cross the line, and you should know how to SPOT the difference in case she does.

 

[jophil28]

Outside of AWs, if she's having one on one lunches with other males, be they co-workers or not, then she's there for a reason. And it's not for the food, it's for the company, and by "company" I mean him...

...and "company " is translated as the buzz that another source of male attention provides her.
At this point, she has turned OUTSIDE your LTR to be in the company of another man for emotionally rewarding reasons. YOU have been forgotten in the process and discarded for the duration of her lunch. She sure isn't telling him how much you mean to her. . She is there for an ego boost and she is willing to place your relationship at risk.

Technically, she has now positioned herself at the 'mild' end of the cheating continuum.

 

[jophil28]

Your woman should know the difference and should not cross the line, and you should know how to SPOT the difference in case she does.

Two problem with all your "shoulds" here...

Firstly women have no clear " lines" as we men know them . They create what is OK, or not OK " on the run " according to how they "feel" and how immediately gratifying the situation is TO THEM.

You, of all people, should know this from your recent history with a variety of AWs and fakes and flakes.

Secondly, a woman who is having lunches with a "male "friend" is hardly likely to tell you, at least initially, so how are you going to know what is going on in order to "SPOT the difference .." ??

 

[Unprez]

Oh, and to the OP....learn how to type. I didn't even bother to read your post.

I'll keep that in mind to know that professional writing is expected on a site wr the use of swear words are flowing throughout the forms....doesn't make sense post in my thread if u didn't read it ....... nevertheless i was actually agreeing wit the fact that men shouldn't jump the gun when woman have guy friends, and to not just take advise on others that she should be nexted because of that.... clearly confidence is the opposite of jealousy but yet there requires a balance when a woman is clearly disrespecting you if for example she goes on dinner dates wit her guy friends etc.....not to mention the dopehead who doesn't mind sharing his gf to other guys....... above all I appreciate most of responses except the few that didn't make any sense............ just really hope that senior members start advising more practical responses to situations...cuz at times I need it and sure other young guys do too but with the saturation of negative, retarded, out right stupid responses i feel there isn't a point

 

[Mr. Me]

Here's the problem. That "door" is open as soon as she leaves the house.

There's a difference between, say, she goes to work in an office and she accepts lunch dates with another man. While an affair can happen either way, she's at the office to work, earn a paycheck, whereas a decision to have lunch with this other guy is... what? Certainly not about work, certainly an elective. It's all about being with this other guy.

This whole concept of your woman not being able to have male friends under any circumstances is ridiculous.

I guess it must be, because you seem to know what a ridiculous premise is.

I didn't say she *couldn't* have male friends. I said the right woman is going to turn down offers.

We all want to go out as a group? Me, her, Larry, her co-worker, Steve, her friend from college and his girlfriend? No problem. She wants to go out with Larry alone. Problem.

If you don't allow your woman to have male friends then

I believe I wrote that a guy should permit his woman to do whatever she wants. I don't tell a woman what she can and can't do. I tell her how I'll respond perhaps. But hopefully, I don't commit up with a woman before I know her character well enough, so this kind of stuff is hardly an issue.

I am Man enough not to be insecure about my woman, and I am smart enough to be able to spot disrespect. I don't need to start thumping my chest and draw lines in the sand to "keep my woman in line". She's gonna do what she's gonna do. The more you try to put her in a cage the more she's going to fight you.

You're inferring I'm insecure and stupid. Again, where did you read me saying tell a woman what to do? I'm saying let her play her hand. That's the only way you can see who she is, if she chooses not to play it right, you walk. You don't have to stick around for disloyalty. Give me the woman who's loyal to me and who will turn down the lunch offer. That's my gal.

You think having lunch with a guy she's known for years before you met her is any different than her working late hours on a project with a male co-worker?

This is exactly the kind of stuff women say to shame men in order to keep company with another man. That and calling them insecure.

But yes, if she has to work late on a project, if she really must, that's for work. Doesn't mean she's having a drink with him while he's macking her. If she agrees to a dinner date with the dude, that's... what? I see a huge difference.

And it doesn't matter HOW LONG she's known anyone. It's not about length of time. What matters is how she puts her relationship with her man as the priority.

And there's a big difference between "lunch dates" and catching up with an old friend

And the right woman will invite you along to meet the old friend at lunch.

It's "OK" if she's paid to hang out with a guy, huh? Not much logic there.

She's not getting paid to hang out with a guy. She gets paid to work with the guy. Maybe you misunderstood and maybe that's why it doesn't seem logical to you.

So, yes, it's okay to work with someone if that's what your job requires.

She can't say it's her job requiring her to have a drink with him after work in the cozy corner of a dark bar.

But if she does say that, then I'd suspect her integrity is low.

I suppose you could argue that the "work dynamic" might help keep things in check, but I think I heard somewhere that the majority of affairs women have are with coworkers, so that defense is pretty weak.

The affair doesn't really grow its legs in the office. But it sure can get cultivated by accepting invites for lunch or drinks after work.

What can I say? I am telling you, if you're with a woman who insists on seeing her old male friends and making new ones, and defending it with "I've known him longer then I know you!" and "He's just a friend!" and going off having her secret life, your relationship has a hole in it: You're with a low integrity or low interest woman.

 

[decades]

Secondly, a woman who is having lunches with a "male "friend" is hardly likely to tell you, at least initially, so how are you going to know what is going on in order to "SPOT the difference .." ??

actually some women, you know the type, will tell you. and those are the dangerous ones.

 

[horaholic]

My ex used to wait a couple months before telling me (half the story, anyway) about the shady shyt she was doing. By then, too much time had gone by to be mad about it. Yet another clever tool in her demonic arsenal.

 

[darkstarrr]

Amusing and entertaining how the topic can spin off the way it has.

I agree with the poster that this board has taught me some important things, about self confidence and living as well as I can. I strongly disagree with the general theme of the OP message which seemed to imply there was an overbearing amount of negativity or bitterness within the advice that people give each other which inevitably renders much of the advice useless. I see it from time to time from nimwits who haven't experienced HELL first hand, but overall its quite uncommon.

 

[jophil28]

What can I say? I am telling you, if you're with a woman who insists on seeing her old male friends and making new ones, and defending it with "I've known him longer then I know you!" and "He's just a friend!" and going off having her secret life, your relationship has a hole in it: You're with a low integrity or low interest woman.

If she is pulling this shyte behind your back (especially with NEW guys that she met AFTER you) then you do not have a "relationship" which is worth saving. She is indeed a low quality woman.

You are simply in an 'arrangement of convenience' - mainly her convenience.
And she will continue to cheat with her male "friends" until she finds a BBD to swing across to.

 

[Bronxtal112]

You're with a low integrity or low interest woman.

So besides those two factors. May I ask WHY a woman must seen attention/ validation from another man while in a relationship with me or you?

What good does it do her?

 

[guru1000]

It is pretty evident that any man who exercises his exclusivity with such a woman does not select quality and/or high IL as a priority.

The real motivator behind this decision is one's lack of options. A scarce mind frame will justify his own decisions in picking the bottom of the barrel due to his perceived inadequacies. After all if one has the pick of the litter, why would he not acquire woman who hold themselves to higher ideals and respect for their partner.

I am not singling anyone out but I am not fooled by those who pretend a 'Popular' woman is acceptable. Their red lights certainly go off but they refuse to acknowledge it as a defense mechanism to their scarcity.

I have always explained the significance of establishing boundaries at the point of exclusivity. In this case, a woman of this type of thinking is not LTR material and thus disqualifies herself immediately from an LTR. That being said, a woman of this thinking will not have the privilege of being locked in a cage as she does not merit my attention.

Part of having a successful LTR is to property qualify your potential partner. Despite one's scarcity, any man who chooses such a woman will continue having the same undesirable results.

If one ACCEPTS only respectful compatible behavior as a prerequisite to exclusivity, then he will find himself surrounded by qualified candidates who are worthy of his boundary implementation.

 

[darkstarrr]

It is pretty evident that any man who exercises his exclusivity with such a woman does not select quality and/or high IL as a priority.

The real motivator behind this decision is one's lack of options. A scarce mind frame will justify his own decisions in picking the bottom of the barrel due to his perceived inadequacies. After all if one has the pick of the litter, why would he not acquire woman who hold themselves to higher ideals and respect for their partner.

This just about sums it up but the reality of it is that a lot of guys don't have the "pick of the litter". I'm a busy guy, I work full time as an engineer and I live by myself. Most of my friends are into their own things, many of them tied down in their own relationships and families. I'm considering getting a part time job at Whole Foods at this point to meet new people.

My point is that a lot of times people, expecially in phases of their lives, do not have a lot of options. It what it is.

And so you meet a girl and you hang out on a somewhat regular basis. She demonstrates high IL and it feels great, she seems normal. My point here is that often times, especially for the noobies and unsuspecting men out there is can be too late because by the time they realize something isn't quite right, they are already hooked emotionally or otherwise and they begin to feel panicked inside because they know if things "end", this prson they are with might be the type to "sleep around" to "feel better" about herself.

Then you start to develop a complex subconciously, sort of like an unhealthy protective measure that induces you to prevent things from ending because you are so afraid subconsciously of being hurt.

So the lesson learned once again is you have to be very careful with who you welcome into your lives and balance "that" with putting in a lot of effort to have "options".

 

[Luthor Rex]

What can I say? I am telling you, if you're with a woman who insists on seeing her old male friends and making new ones, and defending it with "I've known him longer then I know you!" and "He's just a friend!" and going off having her secret life, your relationship has a hole in it: You're with a low integrity or low interest woman.

I think that our lives have all taught us that in general we can't trust women. Well, the fact is you can't trust most people out there when it comes to sex and who's going to stab you in the back.

I think that men on here who don't like their girlfriends going out solo with other men have seen just how easily some people are turned and carry suspicion with them into their relationships. This is actually probably the more realistic way to be, truth be told. Or maybe I just grew up around too much poor white trash.

So what these men want, and I agree with them, is for their woman to be "above suspicion". If the situation were reversed I would not go out with a an ex-gf alone or even just a female friend alone if I were dating someone else. I don't talk about the Hollywood actresses I have crushes on in front of anyone I'm dating. Heck, I don't even look at porn while dating someone because I think it's disrespectful. I do this and other little things because I see the world and the people in it as inherently not worthy of trust, and I want to give off as many signs that I can be trusted as I can. Which is why I behave in a manner that doesn't even put me into a situation that appears that I could be compromised.

If the woman I am dating is not willing to act in a similar manner, then I have less trust for her. Of course this system for weeding bad people out of my life isn't fool proof, but then nothing is.

 

[slaog]

So what these men want, and I agree with them, is for their woman to be "above suspicion". If the situation were reversed I would not go out with a an ex-gf alone or even just a female friend alone if I were dating someone else. I don't talk about the Hollywood actresses I have crushes on in front of anyone I'm dating. Heck, I don't even look at porn while dating someone because I think it's disrespectful. I do this and other little things because I see the world and the people in it as inherently not worthy of trust, and I want to give off as many signs that I can be trusted as I can. Which is why I behave in a manner that doesn't even put me into a situation that appears that I could be compromised.

Exactly! If you want your woman to have those high standards you need to have high standards too.


Lead by example. They'll respect you more and be more likely to follow your lead.

 

[STR8UP]

Two problem with all your "shoulds" here...

Firstly women have no clear " lines" as we men know them . They create what is OK, or not OK " on the run " according to how they "feel" and how immediately gratifying the situation is TO THEM.

Kinda shoots a few holes in the idea that "quality" women exist, eh?

Of course I subscribe to the idea that most women are the same at their core, but that doesn't mean that they are all utterly incapable of good behavior.

Secondly, a woman who is having lunches with a "male "friend" is hardly likely to tell you, at least initially, so how are you going to know what is going on in order to "SPOT the difference .." ??

It's called a "gut feeling". If she is truly doing something WRONG (which lunch with another man could go either way) you will eventually know about it and you should know how to deal with it accordingly.

Interesting.......everything you just said pretty much backs up the idea that women are basically the same. No such thing as "quality" that you can put a label on. more a matter of setting the frame and maintaining it. I thought you were one of the "yes they do exist" guys....

You're inferring I'm insecure and stupid. Again, where did you read me saying tell a woman what to do? I'm saying let her play her hand. That's the only way you can see who she is, if she chooses not to play it right, you walk. You don't have to stick around for disloyalty. Give me the woman who's loyal to me and who will turn down the lunch offer. That's my gal.

I'm not insinuating that at all.

I throw out the work example because I firmly believe that this is the root of most infidelity. Yes, when a woman is working with another man it is different than her accepting an invitation to see him on a personal level. You are talking about a woman essentially accepting a "date" with a guy. I'm talking more about a woman who doesn't necessarily shun her friends (male or female) when she gets into a relationship. There's a difference.

What I am trying to say is that it may or may not be ok for her to have male friends or to be in the company of other men. But for those who say hands down that "A woman in a relationship should not have male friends" sounds insecure to me. It's a situational thing.

There's black, white, and a whole lot of grey. A guy who thinks that the women he dates will never be walking the grey area is delusional. Maybe she never will....but chances are pretty good.

My contention is that it's going to happen anyway, so there is no point in trying to stifle it. Makes you look weak and insecure, and it pushes women away. Most women are going to do sh!t behind your back. Most of the time it will be "fairly" innocent. You can draw all of the boundaries you want but if she is attractive she will have other men pursuing her. It is up to HER to set boundaries. If she doesn't set proper boundaries, you will eventually find out and you get rid of her.

Out of curiosity.....what would you think if lets say you went out of town on business, and your g/f or wife happens to have a single friend in town visiting, and this single friend happened to know a lot of people in the area and invited a bunch of guys and girls to go out for the night? Would it be disrespectful of your girl to go out with a mixed group if you aren't able to attend? See where things can get blurry?

I am not singling anyone out but I am not fooled by those who pretend a 'Popular' woman is acceptable. Their red lights certainly go off but they refuse to acknowledge it as a defense mechanism to their scarcity.

You shouldn't be dating an AW in the first place.

There's a difference between a woman seeking attention outside of her relationship and a woman who is simply being social. Like I said before....if I start dating a woman exclusively and she tries to tell me that I can no longer have any form of contact with the women I know, she won't be getting the honor. I learned long ago that the absolute worst thing you can do when you get involved with someone is to put the rest of your life on hold. Do I change my behavior when I am with someone? Sure I do. But I'll be damned if a chick starts dictating who i can and cannot talk to, so I'm not going to be dictating that kind of stuff to her either.

As Mr. Me pointed out, your woman should put you first. If she doesn't then there's a problem. Everything else is details.

I can't disagree with this phrase.

Obviously, the point of debate is the definition of "such a woman" - which is pretty vague. And I'm not buying the all-or-nothing theory that she's either a noble angel or a philandering *****. This is the false dichotomy being suggested here.

And that is truly the reason why some guys will never make it out of the matrix. The idea of high quality vs. low quality is a form of self-delusion that is the next layer under the Soulmate Myth. Most guys make it past the first layer, but they dare not even challenge the second one.

Of course, you may find a "quality" woman who adheres to your idea of respectful behavior, or at least you will be mentally satisfied when she tells you she is following your rules. Whether she actually follows them or not, you may never know.

The same folks who have a problem getting past the Myth of the Quality Woman are the ones who are "mentally satisfied" with being deceived. I've been around enough women in my life to know how it really works.

Oh yea, and Unprez....I didn't bother reading past the first sentence of your reply. A little capitalization and punctuation makes a post easier to read. Don't be lazy.

 

[jophil28]

Interesting.......everything you just said pretty much backs up the idea that women are basically the same. No such thing as "quality" that you can put a label on. more a matter of setting the frame and maintaining it. I thought you were one of the "yes they do exist" guys....

UNfortunately you bought into that facile belief that men who refer to women as "low quality" are merely buffering themselves against rejection or protecting their egos against recent past rejection by her or other women.
Now you are protecting you own investment in this theory by continuing to promote the "Myth of the Quality Woman."

IT is no MYTH, IN the 80's I was married to a Quality Woman who demonstrated her "quality" and integrity in myriad ways, and many of those were on occasions which had little to do with me. I saw her act on her beliefs inspite of her fear of disapproval, she always kept her word, she never cheated or flirted, and she was fearlessly honest and forthright with OTHER people.
SHe was an humanities academic who was not willing to be hijacked by faddish theories and post modernist gibberish. SHe was highly intelligent, demanding in her own way of herself and others, and very clear about her moral code and her ethical standards.

The "Myth of the Quality" is its own foolish myth.

 

[Unprez]

The "Myth of the Quality" is its own foolish myth.

Agreed..and trying to go back to the core point of this thread is that because of this you cannot provide generalized advise on woman!....a stripper is liekly to want thugged out guys who treat her like **** ...while an educated intellectual woman would not! ...... point being is that quality exists wit woman as it does wit men...being a uni grad i would be very disgusted if a woman would generalize me to some gangster bum who sells drugs at the corner...and yet thats wht woman do cuz there are illogical and complain...men being rational we should note the difference and take that into serious consideration otherise u get retards who posts threads in the mature column about how some stripper broke their heart....