At A Complete Loss...

[Orbitron]

Hello all,

I'm a 42 yo guy and I would say my views regarding dating are pretty red pill since a pretty horrendous break-up about 18 months ago. Typical story - totally had her on a pedestal, let her walk all over me and surprise surprise: she had no respect for me and ended a 3yr relationship in a brief, cryptic text and then ghosted me.

Since being given no explanation, I resolved to figure things out for myself and it was at this point I was recommended "3% Man" by Corey Wayne by a friend and that pretty much answered all of my questions and following that I have gone on to read dozens and dozens of Red Pill dating/relationship books such as "The Book of Pook", "The Rational Male" series, Roosh's "Bang" and "Day Bang", "Mystery Method", "The Natural" by Richard Ruina, "Models" by Mark Manson and many others too.

Now, I'm 42 (as mentioned), a tall, very muscular and good looking silver fox, I'm a confident ****y bastard, I'm a highly intelligent intellectual sort, I'm funny, I have a good job, I'm not afraid to call women out on princessy BS and last but not least; I ride a Harley. This is not me just blowing my own trumpet - I'm regularly told how handsome I am and my stature and physique is what it is.

On paper, I am most womens wet dream yet my track record with them is woeful and the last 18 months since my split from my gf has been nothing but scores and scores of flakes. I've been on many dates, been to bed with a few women but the only women I seem to attract are the ones I'm not interested in.

I have all but eliminated fear of rejection and approach anxiety and regularly chat women up during the day (and to be honest prefer doing so than when pissed up at weekends) yet if I do get a phone number then 100% flake out on me as do the ones I meet online with the usual scenario being a few messages back and forth and then nothing.

I'm at a complete loss as to what's going wrong here and I realise the one common denominator here is me so logic would indicate that it's something I'm doing or not doing that just doesn't flip the switches of the hotties I want but I swear to god I think I'm the same with all women and I actually relish the challenge of approaching the hot ones.

Any advice would be most welcome...

 

[stovepipe]

You are attracting the wrong kind of women. When you put a women on a pedestal it says a lot about yourself. Sounds like you might have some childhood issues you need to uncover, understand and resolve. Seeking therapy would be a good idea and is nothing to be ashamed of. If you haven't read the DJ Bible I would recommend you start there.

 

[The Duke]

Its definitely a numbers game no matter how great you are, but would it be correct to say you have an issue connecting/creating attraction on first dates and perhaps that is the reason you don't get 2nd dates?

 

[guru1000]

It is nearly impossible to identify your problem without knowing how you look. Either the problem is in your appearance or how you project yourself. Both can be corrected. For OLD, it's your photos. If you truly need assist, post or PM your photos for feedback.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

How strictly are you following "guidelines" on topics like how soon to call after you get a phone number, how much to balance being a gentleman vs sexual innuendo, how ****y vs how sweet, etc? Have you experimented with these kinds of things to see if one thing works better than another? I'm guessing you don't waste a lot of time texting back and forth or talking on the phone and you set clear, concrete dates? Being assertive and leading?

Is it possible you simply have unrealistic expectations as to how much success you should be having? Most women aren't going to be into you. And of the women who give you their number or match with you online, heck, probably most of them won't be into you either. Women don't like to tell a guy no so they will often give you their number when you ask, even though they know full well they won't be responding to you.

You say you've been on many dates but the only women you attract you aren't interested in. Many dates is a good thing right? Are the women you aren't attracted to the women you are going out on dates with and if so why are you going on dates with them.

I think there is info missing that we need to help try to figure out what is going on. From what you've told us, it seems like you know what you are doing and have a lot going for you. Give us some examples of your text or OLD message exchanges. Tell us how you are setting first and second dates that are causing fails and flakes. etc.

 

[Focal core]

You are attracting the wrong kind of women. When you put a women on a pedestal it says a lot about yourself. Sounds like you might have some childhood issues you need to uncover, understand and resolve. Seeking therapy would be a good idea and is nothing to be ashamed of. If you haven't read the DJ Bible I would recommend you start there.

can comfirm this.. youre with wrong type of women.. they doesnt find themselves up to your expectation.. it isnt your fault.. find a classy alpha type women for you.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

You "relish the challenge" with the really hot ones (that you'd most like to meet).

Bingo. Problem identified.

That statement literally lept out at me.

You gotta treat the hottest women the same way you treat women you could care less about. Like you are so OVER hot women, like this is who you hang with 24/7/365.

So your cadence of your voice becomes more rapid, you become too focused on your target, you monopolize her time just a little too much.

Hot women get approached everywhere & endlessly. We read non verbal cues men don't even realize they broadcast. So the brutally honest truth is approach more hot women but care far less about the outcome. Settle down. Hot women gravitate to men that are "meh" about them. Men who are over the beauty bit. Those are the men hot women can be human with.

Hot women want to feel human. Not objectified. When you objectify a woman your sub-context communicates that you don't think you are good enough; defacto pedestalization. Instant turn off. And often non-verbal & extremely subtle.

Food for thought.

 

[R.U.G.]

Advice from the old lady:

You "relish the challenge" with the really hot ones (that you'd most like to meet).

Bingo. Problem identified.

That statement literally lept out at me.

You gotta treat the hottest women the same way you treat women you could care less about. Like you are so OVER hot women, like this is who you hang with 24/7/365.

So your cadence of your voice becomes more rapid, you become too focused on your target, you monopolize her time just a little too much.

Hot women get approached everywhere & endlessly. We read non verbal cues men don't even realize they broadcast. So the brutally honest truth is approach more hot women but care far less about the outcome. Settle down. Hot women gravitate to men that are "meh" about them. Men who are over the beauty bit. Those are the men hot women can be human with.

Hot women want to feel human. Not objectified. When you objectify a woman your sub-context communicates that you don't think you are good enough; defacto pedestalization. Instant turn off. And often non-verbal & extremely subtle.

Food for thought.

Wait... Wait.. Wait... Women are human? Nooooooooo. You strange creatures are from Venus. I read a book about it once years ago.. :'p

 

[BeExcellent]

Wait... Wait.. Wait... Women are human? Nooooooooo. You strange creatures are from Venus. I read a book about it once years ago.. :'p

I know right? Shocker.

 

[Glassguy]

the last 18 months since my split from my gf has been nothing but scores and scores of flakes.

@BeExcellent gave very solid advice. You give too many fvcks about women who are attractive in your eyes. The women you are not interested in show you interest because you dont care about them.

You should only be showing sexual interest in the women that you are interested in through your body language, communication (phone and text) to show that you are interested in them sexually/romantically and have no time for a platonic relationship with them. Make it clear without coming across as a sex creep. After you let your intentions be know (covertly) you need to chill out and these women will actually come to you if they are mutually interested. You should be treating them as interested but outcome indifferent.

As far as what I quoted from your post above-

Flakes happen. You can read all of the books you wish, but until you become more mysterious and also recognize the true signs that a woman is interested in you sexually/romantically vs all other reasons (attention wh0ring, validation, etc) you will deal with flakes. Even the guys that can really identify a woman's interest in us still deal with flakes on occasion, but far less than men who cant identify the signs.

Chill out, dont treat these women differently than you would someone who was just so so in your eyes and learn to identify women who are truly interested in you and how to weed the others out. It will save you a lot of time and frustration in the long run which will ultimately impact a strong frame.

Remember- women that are interested in you sexually/romantically will make it easy for you to take them out for drinks and escalate.

BTW- I am 40 yrs old and I seem to have my highest success (and most fun) with women that are 25-30. They seem to be much easier to be direct with in terms of what I am looking for and also seem to be much better at conforming to my frame.

 

[speed dawg]

On paper, I am most womens wet dream yet my track record with them is woeful and the last 18 months since my split from my gf has been nothing but scores and scores of flakes. I've been on many dates, been to bed with a few women but the only women I seem to attract are the ones I'm not interested in.

I would spend more time on these women that you aren't interested in. I think you've got an arrogance problem hiding some type of insecurity. What is the insecurity?

I think I'd try to bang as many of these substandard women as possible, to build your confidence and eliminate that insecurity, which I'm guessing, is your overall lack of success given your 'resources'.

 

[Orbitron]

Here's a photo of my sister and I taken a few weeks back and the one of my bike and I are from last summer.

 

[Orbitron]

Thanks for all your replies so far.

You are attracting the wrong kind of women. When you put a women on a pedestal it says a lot about yourself. Sounds like you might have some childhood issues you need to uncover, understand and resolve. Seeking therapy would be a good idea and is nothing to be ashamed of. If you haven't read the DJ Bible I would recommend you start there.

The thing is that I'm now very conscious now of not doing that as I know it's a path to ruin and I'm pretty cheeky and ****y with all women; probably more so with the hotter women whereas I used to be all deferential and supplicating around them.

Not afraid of therapy at all but not sure exactly what to say to a shrink - "I can't get laid, can you help me?"

 

[guru1000]

Here's a photo of my sister and I taken a few weeks back and the one of my bike and I are from last summer.

You're looking sharp there in the first pic. Your style, the tailored button-down, designer jeans is the perfect first date attire.

Your initial post is a bit conflicting, whereas I read you have a 100% flake ratio, and then re-read to see that you are dating. I presume the 100% flake ratio is in OLD, and dating is offline.

Here is the OLD blueprint:

Started Using Tinder

As for offline and in-person date and frame, others here are more than capable to assist in that area.

 

[Orbitron]

"How strictly are you following "guidelines" on topics like how soon to call after you get a phone number, how much to balance being a gentleman vs sexual innuendo, how ****y vs how sweet, etc? Have you experimented with these kinds of things to see if one thing works better than another? I'm guessing you don't waste a lot of time texting back and forth or talking on the phone and you set clear, concrete dates? Being assertive and leading?"

It varies, I never ever text/call immediately and usually leave it at least a day or so and also never reply immediately. My texts are pretty brief and succinct and I seldom send more than one without a reply and if that means the end of the interaction then so be it...next!

When setting dates I always ask when they're free and then set the date accordingly (assuming I'm also free) and I never tell them what we're doing as it seems to pay for it to be a surprise and let the evening unfold for them.

"You say you've been on many dates but the only women you attract you aren't interested in. Many dates is a good thing right? Are the women you aren't attracted to the women you are going out on dates with and if so why are you going on dates with them."

I give them the benefit of the doubt and see if there's any other redeeming factors if they're not a knockout physically.

"I think there is info missing that we need to help try to figure out what is going on. From what you've told us, it seems like you know what you are doing and have a lot going for you. Give us some examples of your text or OLD message exchanges. Tell us how you are setting first and second dates that are causing fails and flakes. etc."

I can't oblige there I'm afraid as I delete all messages and contact details once the interaction ceases to be fruitful.

 

[Orbitron]

Advice from the old lady:

You "relish the challenge" with the really hot ones (that you'd most like to meet).

Bingo. Problem identified.

That statement literally lept out at me.

You gotta treat the hottest women the same way you treat women you could care less about. Like you are so OVER hot women, like this is who you hang with 24/7/365.

So your cadence of your voice becomes more rapid, you become too focused on your target, you monopolize her time just a little too much.

Hot women get approached everywhere & endlessly. We read non verbal cues men don't even realize they broadcast. So the brutally honest truth is approach more hot women but care far less about the outcome. Settle down. Hot women gravitate to men that are "meh" about them. Men who are over the beauty bit. Those are the men hot women can be human with.

Hot women want to feel human. Not objectified. When you objectify a woman your sub-context communicates that you don't think you are good enough; defacto pedestalization. Instant turn off. And often non-verbal & extremely subtle.

Food for thought.

But how on earth are you supposed to convey sexual interest if you don't convey sexual interest???

All the time I read women find confident assertive guys sexy and it takes balls of steel to approach a woman in broad daylight, stone cold sober and chat her up yet my success rate doing this is pretty poor.

Last week I approached a real hottie, probably late 20's/early 30's and just confidently strode up to her and told her the outfit she was wearing was stunning and she looked lovely. We had a really nice chat and she was obviously way into me too (asked me her name after I failed to volunteer it, laughing at my jokes, asking me questions and commenting on my answers etc but the old boyfriend excuse came out when I asked for her number.

 

[Orbitron]

You're looking sharp there in the first pic. Your style, the tailored button-down, designer jeans is the perfect first date attire.

Your initial post is a bit conflicting, whereas I read you have a 100% flake ratio, and then re-read to see that you are dating. I presume the 100% flake ratio is in OLD, and dating is offline.

Here is the OLD blueprint:


As for offline and in-person date and frame, others here are more than capable to assist in that area.

It's pretty much 100% OLD flakes with regards to women I find attractive. I have a few women I could call up, spin them a few lines and have them in the sack in short order but I just can't do it. These are women I have dated once but no interest in pursuing and rather typically they're now pursuing me.

With RL interactions, I don't have too much trouble getting phone numbers but then that's where the story ends...I'd rather the women in question would just have some damn integrity and just say no in the first place - I would respect them for that but instead my view of women on the whole is becoming more and more soured each time this happens.

 

[BeExcellent]

It's pretty much 100% OLD flakes with regards to women I find attractive. I have a few women I could call up, spin them a few lines and have them in the sack in short order but I just can't do it. These are women I have dated once but no interest in pursuing and rather typically they're now pursuing me.

With RL interactions, I don't have too much trouble getting phone numbers but then that's where the story ends...I'd rather the women in question would just have some damn integrity and just say no in the first place - I would respect them for that but instead my view of women on the whole is becoming more and more soured each time this happens.

Some of my comments may sound a little harsh. They aren't really. I just want you to really look at what you want in a woman and think about how to attract (with as little effort as possible) that sort of woman.

Your pictures are good in my opinion. You are a big guy with decent style and a masculine look. You have good hair, good lips, good bone structure and a good strong jawline. You do look about 10-15 lbs. lighter in your motorcycle picture from last summer than you do now. Keep in mind your HB score is going to drop a half a point to a point for every extra ten pounds you carry. The same is true for women, trust me. I slay absolutely at about 115, but it's hell to try and stay at that weight. So I am at 120-125 and call it good. I can't run the 40 miles a week it takes to stay at 115 anymore. Knees won't tolerate it. Is what it is. Cut out carbs and beer for a bit (go to vodka/soda - no carbs or whiskey neat or scotch on the rocks - very low carbs) and see if you can get that extra off your middle. Women notice it. Staying fit does not get easier. Bummer but its fact. Accept it and adapt accordingly.

So my other questions are from a slightly different angle. First what is your target age? Second, your motorcycle pic sort of puts out this "bad boy" image upfront...is your follow up congruent with that? Or are you suddenly Mr. Polite? If you are then your behavior is not matching the image you portray, and that can trip you up.

It is my belief that the better looking you are the more you'll fare better IRL than online if you have the time to commit to RL interactions. In RL you can also control the sort of women you sort for by what venues you frequent. OLD is too much much of a catch all for everyone and anyone...but some of the men here swear by it with the right pictures. OLD is all about pictures.

The background in your first pic looks like a roadhouse dive bar kind of place. Do you want a roadhouse dive bar type woman?

If not, then you need to choose somewhere else to frequent or at least put a picture from a classier place in your profile. In my area for example there is everything from dive bar to high end swanky places that are booked with reservations every night of the week for dinner...that also have a good high end bar scene etc. The single women who go to the high end places have means and can afford it. Higher end venues are a pre-screening device that keep the riff raff (who can't afford it) out.

What kind of woman do you want to meet? Go where those kinds of women go. It allows you to focus on your target market. Don't go to collegiate hang outs if you think 21 year olds are too young (for example). If you prefer 21 year olds, then by all means go to the college bars and hang outs.

Figure out the hip hotel lounges in your area (I am partial to the "W" Hotel Properties myself as my type peeps hang there most typically)...but these are the sorts of things to ask yourself. Is motorcycle culture something you want a woman to embrace? I for example generally avoid motorcycle dudes. I don't want my hair messed up or have to wear pants, and I don't like the risk associated with bikes. I find it too "try hard" in some ways but if its something you really enjoy then obviously you'd like someone to enjoy that with. Go to rallies and events the motorcycle dealership puts on in that case.

As far as sexual interest goes...if you are asking the question then you do not naturally know what to do and when. That's OK. Find some venues and go watch people. Watch the men. You'll see some men who are very smooth in how they interact with women. Observe what they DO (what they say is less important than what they do.) Sit far enough away so you can't really hear so all you have to go on is body language. It will tell you everything if you pay close attention.

There are many good posts about escalation and kino in the DJ Bible. Women do respond to it, but again, only when its congruent with your overall presentation.

The best way to learn is by doing what you did with the hottie last week. Approach 100 women like @narcissist has embarked on recently. He blasted his reservations about approaching by doing that and evolved his comfort level with hot women at light speed. Do it and see how the action influences your outcomes (positively!) No one here can tell you what your approach style should be. Some men are dead pan blunt/direct, some are charming, some are sh*tty/funny, some are mysterious and quiet, some are gregarious outrageous touchy feely flirts. Any of those styles can work just fine so long as it has integrity with who you are at your core.

What you don't want to do is contort yourself and your personality into someone you are not in an effort to meet chicks. Women see this a mile away and it is a turn off.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Any advice would be most welcome...

Calibration. As you approach and talk, most women will accept a friendly conversation. Once you get into the "give me your number" zone, they pretend to be interested, but they are only being polite. They are giving you the number so they don't have to go through the discomfort of telling you they aren't interested that way.

Talking to people to have a friendly conversation is a skill, but a pretty easy one.

Talking to females to build real attraction is another skill, but a much different and more difficult one.

Transitioning from the first to the second takes plenty of time and practice. They both seem the same, but the attraction part (both causing and interpreting) takes a lot of fine tuning in your approach.

Just keep at it and expect to slowly improve.

Red pill ideas are easy.

Genuine, red pill behavior takes a long time and a lot of patience, and just like any skill development, it will be frustrating.

Keep at it.

Don't make the common mistake of thinking it's about looks or skills or intelligence or clothing or any of that.

It's all about how you can generate specific feelings through your BEHAVIOR.

Everything else, (looks money etc. ) is really only enough to get the conversation going, which you seem to have no problems with.

 

[guru1000]

If you're shooting for young 8s and 9s, lose the second pic vibe. The clothes appear tawdry/tacky, and the image doesn't scream high-value, debonair, sophisticated, and classy which you want to project for the high-end 8/9 club.

You are shooting for the style in the first pic, with the lean physical appearance in the second pic.

Style is huge.

Here are a few style tips that will crank you into gear. I assume, you have some cash flow at 42, so invest a little into YOU:

My go to is a Hugo Boss shirt. This is the only designer that creates quality shirts for the athletic build (broad shoulders, slim waist).

Get the same style with different colors, white, blue, pink, purple. The key is in tailoring the back and waist to fit snug, but not tight. Then neatly roll the sleeves three times. Sport a classy watch.

I'd join that with Hugo Boss pants.

If you leave the shirt in, here's a Ferragamo belt you can incorporate.

If you leave the shirt out, finish with some banging Ferragamo shoes.

If you don't like the metal plate look, you can go with something similar like this:

--or--

this,

--or--

this.