article: Things Nice Guys Have To Do To Be Found Attractive

[Maxtro]

Reminds me of Sawyer from Lost.

http://tararehrig.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Sawyer.jpg

A miserable pr!ck girls fell in love with. One girl I knew would apologize for him no matter what terrible thing he did. Though he did have a happy/pr!ckish charm as well.

YES ITS TV.

He's also a ruggedly good looking dude with flowing hair, but that doesn't matter at all...

 

[Sparky]

I'm almost always frowning, hardly ever smile. But I've been told it's attactive. It shows you're focused on your goals, it show you're concentrating. If you're all bubbly and smiling, it shows you're away with the fairies a bit, and a pushover, not much of a conquest. That's what I'm guessing they mean.
I don't frown on purpose, it's just a by product of concentrating.
Also, personally I prefer the women who are more serious looking and confident, not the bubbly ones. Why? Dunno, more of a challenge? Sexier?
Bubbly in women bores me to be honest.

 

[FairShake]

Brooding is cool. Depressed isn't. If your lack of smiling is fueled by anger people understand and actually kind of respect it. If it's fueled by failure and insecurity then they look down on it.

 

[Mr. White]

Of course there's a universal attractive: an idiot with money.

By the age of 14, everyone has learned to fake it by dressing way, way down, but with overpriced mall brand names. Then you accessorize by pulling out that expensive cell phone to answer a text. In other words, be so high status that you can get away with wearing clothing so trashy it's disrespectful, then answer a text and rudely ignore whomever you're talking to at the time. The idea is that only someone with more money than sense would buy overpriced goods that obviously are of much lower quality than sensible items. And only someone with more money than sense wouldn't need to cultivate friendships -- hangers-on are always there like white on rice.

In other words, play the pick-up-artist game in every aspect of your life until, as the years pass, you become in every way the piece of dog sh1t that you swore up and down you'd never become.

This way, smart and strong don't matter. 95% of the people are functionally stupid and weak. Even if they understand the game, they're not smart or strong enough to walk away from it. Great! That leaves the 5% of smart, strong, moral, clever, whatever you call it, for me to impress by being real and not a self-castrator.

(5% see:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20965

"THE CARDINAL RULES:

1. 95% OF WOMEN ARE UTTERLY WORTHLESS, (OTHER THAN FOR SEX OF COURSE) AND ULTIMATELY REPLACEABLE.")

 

[Forty0ztoFreedom]

He's also a ruggedly good looking dude with flowing hair, but that doesn't matter at all...

That matters so much its not even funny. It makes all this mental masturbation exactly that. We can stress and debate and theorize all day, but if improving looks trumps all that, whats the point?

 

[iqqi]

That matters so much its not even funny. It makes all this mental masturbation exactly that. We can stress and debate and theorize all day, but if improving looks trumps all that, whats the point?

The BIG POINT to take away here, is that your DEMEANOR can improve your overall looks.

 

[Jitterbug]

Wow, one thing that I've consistently read in all this pickup stuff is that you should smile. Now they say don't smile, and now they say that if you look ashamed that is more attractive than looking happy or neutral. >Throws up hands<

Wonder if it's brought up yet, but there's quite a difference between smiling in a photo, smiling in a video and smiling in person. You can swap smiling with whatever expression of emotion you like.

And then there are different ways to express emotions on one's face, which have different levels of attractiveness (depending on what you want to convey to others). Actors are trained in various ways to make them look most appealing *on camera* for their roles. Magazine models - for photo shoots.

Don't go around with a frown just because a study says women *say* they don't like guys smiling in photos - and not just any photo, but practically mugshots.

I do love threads on this type of studies. They offer a telling glimpse on people's actual confidence in how they express themselves. Some are like a house of cards. If you stop smiling just because some pretty unconvincing study says so, the way you smiled is probably fake and bad looking in the first place.

 

[Jitterbug]

We can stress and debate and theorize all day, but if improving looks trumps all that, whats the point?

Have you ever heard women mention the phrase "sexy ugly"?

Some guys may be ugly, but they have a particular command of body language, facial expressions and voice that are very impressive to others - and sexy to women. Some are natural, most are taught & trained to be so. Entertainers (actors, musos etc.) are often well schooled in those.

There are many ways a man can improve his *presentation* aka looks that is not what he was born with. The problem is most of you guys are too lazy and ill-disciplined to even attempt it.

Let's see a show of hands on how many (if you're struggling with women) have even practiced facial expressions, how you stand, how you walk around in front of a mirror, or record your own voice and work on it.

 

[zekko]

Don't go around with a frown just because a study says women *say* they don't like guys smiling in photos - and not just any photo, but practically mugshots.

Yeah, I really can't put too much stock into this, especially since this is only the first study to come to this conclusion. And the fact that they are only pictures makes me wonder if this has any practical application in the real world.

The "proud and confident" photo drew a good response. Does that mean guys should walk around with their hands in the air all the time?

If you are with a bunch of people, smiling and laughing, isn't this offering the kind of social proof women supposedly respond to? I thought women wanted guys who were fun?

 

[Maxtro]

The BIG POINT to take away here, is that your DEMEANOR can improve your overall looks.

I'm not too sure about it.

One time I was watching Lost with my Mom she made a comment that he (Josh Holloway) was really good looking. That's the only time I have ever heard her say something like that.

Basically when a guy is good looking he can get away with bad boy expressions. Guys who aren't so good looking can't.

Looks trump all.

 

[zekko]

The BIG POINT to take away here, is that your DEMEANOR can improve your overall looks.

Why should looking ashamed improve your looks (ashamed rated higher than happy in this study)? Seems to completely contradict the idea that women want confidence. Ashamed is practically the opposite of confidence and swagger.

 

[iqqi]

Why should looking ashamed improve your looks (ashamed rated higher than happy in this study)? Seems to completely contradict the idea that women want confidence. Ashamed is practically the opposite of confidence and swagger.

That didn't go hand in hand with my post that you quoted, and I really don't know the context of why the study claimed that. The one I read said that a for sure finding was that confidence = attractive.

 

[Mike32ct]

The BIG POINT to take away here, is that your DEMEANOR can improve your overall looks.

The right body language, confidence, demeanor, whatever, is a BONUS. It's like an extra credit problem on your exam. But it's no substitute for passing the exam, i.e. having the looks. It can only help you pass if your looks are borderline, i.e. you meet her minimum requirements.

 

[iqqi]

The right body language, confidence, demeanor, whatever, is a BONUS. It's like an extra credit problem on your exam. But it's no substitute for passing the exam, i.e. having the looks. It can only help you pass if your looks are borderline, i.e. you meet her minimum requirements.

That IS true, to an extent. For instance, everyone has different tastes.

Also, having a certain demeanor can be sexy enough to be enough. Look at Humphrey Bogart. Look at Jay-Z. Yeah, they have money, but they also have an undeniable demeanor that is very sexy. I could name some unfamous, broke guys too, but it's not like any of you would know them!

 

[penkitten]

op mature dj quoted "Women are more attracted to men who have facial scars (for short term relationships). "

am i the only one reading the words "short term" in that?
i hope no one goes out to get a scar on purpose because nothing "short term" is worth worrying about.

 

[Forty0ztoFreedom]

I'm not too sure about it.

One time I was watching Lost with my Mom she made a comment that he (Josh Holloway) was really good looking. That's the only time I have ever heard her say something like that.

Basically when a guy is good looking he can get away with bad boy expressions. Guys who aren't so good looking can't.

Looks trump all.

Because it all comes down to value, and looks = value no matter what e-book says otherwise. Substitute with $$$ if you want but you better make sure there isn't a more physically fit rich guy around. The hardest way to "demonstrate" value (notice its always "demonstrate value" and not actually HAVE value) is to get it through "game" IMO and thus that should be last priority. That's what you work on when the other priorities are in check!

If Hurley was the brooding d!ck Sawyer was, he would be loathed by the audience and probably written off after Season 1. Sawyer went on to become one of the most beloved characters in TV history.

Angry Hurley = fat loser @sshole
Angry Sawyer = Mysterious hunk with a heart of gold

 

[KarmaSutra]

Costanza says, "I always look annoyed. It makes you appear that you're always very busy."

 

[MaxLove]

I disagree about the not smiling part. Perhaps I am not super good-looking to pull off the angry-at-the-world look, but for me, I find that having a faint but confident smile (almost not smiling), and looking like you are ready for the world is the way to go. Just don't smile like a puppy dog and you are golden.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Have you ever heard women mention the phrase "sexy ugly"?

Some guys may be ugly, but they have a particular command of body language, facial expressions and voice that are very impressive to others - and sexy to women. Some are natural, most are taught & trained to be so. Entertainers (actors, musos etc.) are often well schooled in those.

There are many ways a man can improve his *presentation* aka looks that is not what he was born with. The problem is most of you guys are too lazy and ill-disciplined to even attempt it.

Let's see a show of hands on how many (if you're struggling with women) have even practiced facial expressions, how you stand, how you walk around in front of a mirror, or record your own voice and work on it.

Excluding you're given physical looks, I think this, your presentation (body language, facial expressions, how you move, how you sound) is 90% of the game. This is also your "personality" as perceived by women you meet. The remaining 10% is what you say or the script. Yet with PUA/DJ material the focus is mostly on what you say and tactics. It is as if we are actors but all we do is focus on the script but not on how we deliver or act it out.

But without going to a legitmate acting school and having acting coaches how would anyone who needs to improve their presentation really do so?

Also regarding what women say vs. what they do and only actions count, I strongly disagree that woman actually are more attracted to a guy that doesn't smile. I've seen just the opposite in real life way too often. There's a big difference between a picture and talking to a girl and smiling. Ever seen an actor try to pretend to be a loser or depressed? They stop smiling.

I also believe there are universal attractive qualities for women. This is why some men get many women and a larger group of men get few or no women. Remember the 80/20 rule. These 20% of guys getting 80% of women (I realize it is a slight exaggeration) are mostly naturals and aren't focusing on PUA scripts and tactics. It's mostly looks+presentation.

 

[zekko]

I disagree about the not smiling part. Perhaps I am not super good-looking to pull off the angry-at-the-world look, but for me, I find that having a faint but confident smile (almost not smiling), and looking like you are ready for the world is the way to go. Just don't smile like a puppy dog and you are golden.

I don't know about creating attraction, but I do know that if I smile at a woman she will tend to smile back. Plus, if I'm in a good mood, why shouldn't I smile? I'm not going to go stand in a corner and look like I'm brooding just on the hope some woman who reads Twilight will notice it and be attracted.

Remember the 80/20 rule. These 20% of guys getting 80% of women (I realize it is a slight exaggeration) are mostly naturals and aren't focusing on PUA scripts and tactics. It's mostly looks+presentation.

Let's assume for a moment the 80/20 rule is true. If so, I wonder how many of those 20% of guys study pickup, and how many are naturals? As you point out, I bet the vast majority are naturals.

Looks + presentation is a good way of putting it. If you think about it, "pickup" really just implies the initial interactions, not any sort of lasting attraction. Obviously the superficial aspects are going to be at the forefront in your initial interactions, you don't have time to get beyond what's on the surface. Anything deeper would come later.