Article: Marriage rates are up, and divorce rates are down, new data shows

[SW15]

I think men getting married these days are just getting duped and will soon regret that decision.

I know that's a negative view of things, I just don't see marriage as a winning move for men - in any scenario.

This is generally true.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Idk, I think men getting married these days are just getting duped and will soon regret that decision.

I know that's a negative view of things, I just don't see marriage as a winning move for men - in any scenario. If the government got out of marriage, it'd be different.

Marriage is for the best interest of the children. There are some modest other perks.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Society can’t have “too many”.... lawyers

"Yes, we can."

 

[RickTheToad]

Marriage is for the best interest of the children. There are some modest other perks.

None that I can see.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Both parents can be in the home without being married.

Nah, kids know the difference. No way around it.

 

[SW15]

Marriage is for the best interest of the children. There are some modest other perks.

The biggest perk of marriage comes from the more devout religious communities. Devout practitioners of religion don't believe in pre-marital sex. The 'no pre-marital sex' crowd tends to get married earlier in life, typically before ages 22-23. This is why 'Ring by Spring' is still a thing at Christian colleges like Baylor University and Liberty University. Most people getting married now do not practice the whole 'no pre-marital sex' thing.

For the less devoutly religious and non-practitioners of religion, there are some social status perks from marriage and tax benefits involved.

Many years ago (late 2010s), I asked one of my male friends why he bothered to marry his girlfriend. They had already been a long term couple and were living together by the time he proposed. He could have kept living with her for multiple years if he wanted to do that. He told me that the reason for the marriage was for the sake of the future children and giving them a more stable household. The stable household idea is a facade as most marriages end up failing before the first born child turns 18. That male friend now has a child and was mentioned in the post below complaining about his post-baby sex life.

https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...arts-having-babies.275901/page-4#post-3039347

I'd argue that both parties having the open option to leave when they are unhappy is far better than one party being incentivized to leave, one being coerced to stay, and both being unhappy.

Very few women are motivated to stay in their marriages. Most people don't take their marital vows seriously. California introduced no fault divorce in 1970 and most states in the USA had no fault divorce as a law by the end of the 1970s.

Weddings Mean Nothing - Here's How To Prove It - Alpha Male 2.0

There’s a very interesting article right here about the percentages of newlyweds unsure about the wedding and whether this correlates to the four year divorce rate, which is the first big spike among divorces, statistically speaking. -By Caleb Jones The four year mark is about right, since as...

alphamale20.com

All that marriage does is delay the inevitable as no one is coerced to stay due to no fault divorce. The presence of marriage tends to extend the zombie phase of a relationship. People tend to stay in LTRs that are marriages than non-marital LTRs because of the greater level of commitment that a marriage represents. Ultimately the relationships fail, they just fail somewhat more slowly.

 

[jhonny9546]

So, this might be interesting.

In Italy, most relationships are based on the woman having the final word in decisions, and the man tends to account for what the woman says.

This looks like the depiction of a relationship between a "masculine" woman and a "feminine" man.

Most relationships in Italy have lasted in this way. Since I am from Italy, and this is my experience—seeing and living this every day—should this be how a "correct" LTR looks?

I do also see exceptions of masculine men with feminine women, but these are very rare here.
Could you tell me why this is common in Italy, and if my "feminine" father was completely wrong with his teachings to me?


Just to cite an example, my mom would get upset and my father would shut up and follow his saying, but sometimes, my father get angry and explode, and my mother would get feminine for 2 or 3 days, then going back to be the boss again.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Let's get even more subatomic with all of this:

-While it's true that women over-represent men on most university campuses, 76-80% of all Americans(Male AND female alike)have little to no education beyond K-12. Contrary to the image many of us get from The Manosphere, the vast majority of American women ARE NOT going straight out of Yale and into The C Suites of Goldman Sachs, while most men languish in barely minimum wage labor. The vast majority of men and women alike are living paycheck, desperately trying to stay above water

-Of that relatively small sliver of the female population that does go on to university, most end up majoring in the humanities(particularly psychology)during their undegrad, and of that portion, very few will go on to grad school of any kind, much less pursue degrees in law, engineering, or achieve their MBA. Ergo, most university educated women will only be outearning their non-university educated peers of both genders for a very brief period of their working lives, if even that. Hell, most of these female uni grads(Who again haven't gone onto grad schoo)have accrued steep student debt earning degrees with lousy ROIs

-Even today, over 66% of all women report preferring part-time employment. They won't be outearning many men, most of whom prefer full-time employment

Get rid of most forms of government financial support, in favor of putting the poor into steady, legit work + providing these folks with job training, and provide more ready access to vocational training than currently exists in most parts of The US.... We'll end up with several million men who've achieved firmly middle-upper middle class status as electricians, machinists, mill wrights, mechanics, and the like, who enjoy stable marriages to gals who graduated from cosmetology school, and work at the salon 3-4 days a week

Problem is significantly ameliorated, if not solved entirely

The percentage of men aged 21-35 who have dropped out of the labor market continues to increase rapidly...

Men no longer want to work...they would rather smoke weed and play video games and not having any money doesn't seem to be stopping themz probably because they are allowed to live at home with their parents and do nothing.

Yes men still earn more than women but a large part is that women tend to choose jobs that don't pay much more often than men do(ie, teachers in most places, admin assistants etc)

Where are the Men? | Common Sense Institute

This report explores the national decline in men's labor force participation and compares Colorado men's labor trends. While Colorado men participate in the labor force at higher rates than the national average, Colorado men's participation is falling at a more rapid clip than the nation at large.

commonsenseinstituteco.org

 

[parabellum]

So, this might be interesting.

In Italy, most relationships are based on the woman having the final word in decisions, and the man tends to account for what the woman says.

This looks like the depiction of a relationship between a "masculine" woman and a "feminine" man.

Most relationships in Italy have lasted in this way. Since I am from Italy, and this is my experience—seeing and living this every day—should this be how a "correct" LTR looks?

I do also see exceptions of masculine men with feminine women, but these are very rare here.
Could you tell me why this is common in Italy, and if my "feminine" father was completely wrong with his teachings to me?


Just to cite an example, my mom would get upset and my father would shut up and follow his saying, but sometimes, my father get angry and explode, and my mother would get feminine for 2 or 3 days, then going back to be the boss again.

This feels very Latin in the sense of all Latin languages. Happy wife happy marriage, they say, which can be interpreted in many ways. But how I see it is just about letting her pilot so she’s satisfied about her power in the relationship. With the non-explicit knowledge that when the man “explodes” like you said, the woman is bound to recapitulate, and so on. I’d say it’s one recipe to make things last longer without too much clashing in your daily life.

 

[SW15]

The percentage of men aged 21-35 who have dropped out of the labor market continues to increase rapidly...

Men no longer want to work...they would rather smoke weed and play video games and not having any money doesn't seem to be stopping themz probably because they are allowed to live at home with their parents and do nothing.

I don't think parents letting Millennials and Gen Z live at home are a problem. A lot of these parents are preventing their children from homelessness. Homelessness is becoming a bigger issue now. California is overrun with homeless people now.

Additionally, let's look at who at most at risk for layoff. Millennial and Gen Z males. Companies often try to avoid laying off female employees. Males take the brunt of white collar layoffs and often physically lose the ability to do blue collar work as they age, though that's more of an issue for 36+ males than the 21-35 year olds.

I don't like when people look at the younger generations (Millennials and Gen Z) and say "what's wrong?". The fact is that the last 2 generations of adults have been handed a lousy hand from the Boomers. The Boomers were the last generation to have a good deal and Gen X got the fumes of goodness the Boomers had.

Plenty of men want to work. There just aren't jobs for them.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I don't think parents letting Millennials and Gen Z live at home are a problem. A lot of these parents are preventing their children from homelessness. Homelessness is becoming a bigger issue now. California is overrun with homeless people now.

Additionally, let's look at who at most at risk for layoff. Millennial and Gen Z males. Companies often try to avoid laying off female employees. Males take the brunt of white collar layoffs and often physically lose the ability to do blue collar work as they age, though that's more of an issue for 36+ males than the 21-35 year olds.

I don't like when people look at the younger generations (Millennials and Gen Z) and say "what's wrong?". The fact is that the last 2 generations of adults have been handed a lousy hand from the Boomers. The Boomers were the last generation to have a good deal and Gen X got the fumes of goodness the Boomers had.

Plenty of men want to work. There just aren't jobs for them.

I'm Gen X and I'm doing just fine. Actually more than fine. Probably because I wasn't looking for a handout from "boomers", I went out and worked my ass off for what I got. Most people who have done the same as me are just fine as well.

Nah, that's bullsh!t. This isn't Europe where the unemployment rate hovers in the 6-10% range or higher in some places. The unemployment rate is 4.3% and often is in the mid 3% range.

The data is the data and there has been a long enough period of studying it that shows what it shows...that more men voluntarily are choosing not to work.

You coming to the conclusion that males take the brunt of white collar layoffs is not really true and lacks context.

The reason why men are laid off more in white collar jobs is because there are more men working white collar jobs than women, and especially in management positions that are at higher risk of being eliminated during company cutbacks. If we look at is as a percentage of the workforce in these positions there is no evidence showing this is actually the case that men are somehow "targeted". If 80% of the people at risk of getting laid off are men then common sense should tell you that there will be more men laid off than women. Why would you expect it to be equal?

You seem to come up with a lot of theories that you believe make sense but simply aren't true.

 

[MatureDJ]

....or maybe more hispanics (regardless of what status they may claim on the census forms) lol

Yes, demographics could explain this trend completely.

 

[MatureDJ]

I said it last year in a thread that marriage rates will explode to the upside within the next 10 years, why?

-Famine-It started in 2020 but you will see this ramp up in the next few years

American chicks could use a little famine in their lives.

 

[MatureDJ]

I said it last year in a thread that marriage rates will explode to the upside within the next 10 years, why?
-Higher inflation which means cost of living
-Job loss-New tech AI etc
-Civil unrest
-Global Economic collapse and more
-Famine-It started in 2020 but you will see this ramp up in the next few years

We already saw in 08 recession when things get tough women don't eff around and vet for long-term relationships, well things since 2020 have gotten tougher and will get even tougher now.

The positives IMO is not just marriage which will bring back things to center but also a surge back in conservative values.

The only thing that will motivate prime-age women to pair-bond with non-high-status/Chad males is if they think that they *need* to have a man around, and quickly discover the wisdom that the "emotionally unavailable" man is only there to pump 'n' dump, before she begins to age into harridan stage of life. However, I think it's going to take some really hard times before young women will get this proper attitude.

 

[SW15]

The only thing that will motivate prime-age women to pair-bond with non-high-status/Chad males is if they think that they *need* to have a man around, and quickly discover the wisdom that the "emotionally unavailable" man is only there to pump 'n' dump, before she begins to age into harridan stage of life. However, I think it's going to take some really hard times before young women will get this proper attitude.

Women have used bachelor's/advanced degrees, preferential hiring practices, and white collar jobs to price themselves out of the marriage market. Women have become the beta male providers that they used to rely on in the past. This is why the beta male with a decent job is no longer in demand in the sexual marketplace.

Most men are invisible to most women. Most women are rejecting most men.

Longer term pair bonding is down overall. There are fewer instances of marriage and babies. In most social circles, most people will still marry and have babies. However, there is growth in the number of people not having children and getting married.

Many men are seeing an environment where a larger percentage of them are deemed unacceptable to women. A lot of men are being deemed unacceptable in the short term. Some men get deemed unacceptable after a longer term, which is a divorce. In 2012, it was reported that only about half of marriages started in the late 1980s/early 1990s were making it to 20 years. In the mid-2020s, it is likely that the number on that has increased when considering the marriages that started from 1998-2004.

CDC: Only half of first marriages last 20 years

www.nbcnews.com

The amazing thing is that marriages that started in 1998-2004 were typically Gen X'ers, as Millennials had yet to make their mark on dating in 1998-2004. In 1998-2004, the oldest Millennials were around high school/college age.

In the Millennial generation, it was observed that women were acting out their hypergamy more than predecessor generations in an unrestrained sexual marketplace. Millennial women were the first large generation to openly chase top tier/Chad level males. While I think that some of these issues have roots in predecessor generations, the problem got more visible due to the large size of the Millennial generation. The seduction community has strong roots with Generation X'ers. Major PUAs/Manosphere types (Mystery, Roosh, Krauser, Torero, Heartiste, Rollo) have been Gen X'ers. When Gen X'er Rollo Tomassi published "The Rational Male" in 2013 based on his essays on his own blog site and forum posts on SoSuave, that was based on the era of the mid-2000s - early 2010s sexual marketplace. That was the era in which the 1980s born Millennials were starting to make their mark on the sexual marketplace. A good example of this is Rollo's 2012 article (not something that made "The Rational Male) comparing elements of the Gen X 1990s sexual marketplace to the late 2000s/early 2010s sexual marketplace that 1980s born Millennials were facing at that time. I was living this in 2012.

Sex in the 90’s

Solo hit me up with an interesting question once: There’s been lot of threads popping up lately of how technology/social networking has changed dating, I know I’m a bit younger then mos…

therationalmale.com

We have a bottom line where more men are being rejected and Millennial/Gen Z men haven't been enjoying it.

A major Millennial voice is Myron Gaines from Fresh & Fit. Myron considered Rollo's work to be influential and he's started building upon Rollo's work.

Millennial women were the generation of "Never Settle!" and reject everything but the best. More and more Millennial women are aging and getting towards what @MatureDJ would call harridan status. In 2024, the oldest Millennials turn 43. 1981-1987 born women are 37-43. Plenty of 37-43 year old women have spent the last 20 years building their careers, rejecting men, and are now reaching a phase of their life where they are either never married/childless (a smaller percentage of the 1981-1987 women but more internet vocal group) or married/divorced/never married with a child under 10 (the more common experience now for 1981-1987 Millennials).

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/20/health/us-birth-rate-fertility-final-data-2023/index.html#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20the%20US%20fertility,National%20Center%20for%20Health%20Statistics

.

With your video post about singles events, the women attending singles events are complaining that men stopped showing up. Too many men were showing up to singles events to get rejected by mid-tier women chasing top tier men out of their leagues. Men don't want to deal with that. That's the whole point made in your linked video post.

Imagine being a mid-tier male who has stayed in shape (not overweight/obese), has either a trade certification or a bachelor's degree +, and then finds himself being deemed unacceptable by women despite being fit and having a decent work history despite rampant favoritism towards women in the white collar workplace and higher education. That's the scenario for a lot of males out there.

 

[Solomon]

The only thing that will motivate prime-age women to pair-bond with non-high-status/Chad males is if they think that they *need* to have a man around, and quickly discover the wisdom that the "emotionally unavailable" man is only there to pump 'n' dump, before she begins to age into harridan stage of life. However, I think it's going to take some really hard times before young women will get this proper attitude.

Don't be naive women will only get with non-Chad's if they provide value in one way or another. In 2024 you don't need to be a Chad to get women you just have to have your shyt together, if you live in America your competition is weak, now if you trying to get top tier women that's another story as the competition is stiff