Another Marriage topic.

[Last Man Standing]

jONWON, your premise is valid, but your blame is misplaced!! My world is an idealized one but it is based on the natural order of things,and just because there has been an artificial interference with this natural state doesn't make it an invalid one!!! There has been an artificial intervention in the affairs of men but it has been so by design, to discourage that which is functional and right!!

Look at the universal concept of "marriage" and do not make it personal!! The universal is best for humanity - it overrides the personal misfortunes and ill experiences of one!!!

 

[jonwon]

jONWON, your premise is valid, but your blame is misplaced!! My world is an idealized one but it is based on the natural order of things,and just because there has been an artificial interference with this natural state doesn't make it an invalid one!!! There has been an artificial intervention in the affairs of men but it has been so by design, to discourage that which is functional and right!!

Look at the universal concept of "marriage" and do not make it personal!! The universal is best for humanity - it overrides the personal misfortunes and ill experiences of one!!!

Your idealized world, is not the real world.

Dont blame me for my warped views on marriage blame how fuc*ing horrible the institution is, the natural order of things is all well and good LMS, but that means fuc* all when your the only one preaching it.

Hence its all well and good believing in the institution, but the world around me tells me its a just a label that means nothing but servitude to the female gender, hence its a joke, so you can speel your natural order of things has much has you feel like it, this sadly is an 'ideal' the world is not formed on ideals, the world has in the western sphere is formed on 'reality' and 'reality' says marriage is a dumb deal for men.

Also the point of the first post was to get back to the 'ideal', not away from it, hence i have state time and time again, if i would get married again, i would choose the preachers method over any other, so the 'ideal', is there, your just choosing to ignore what i write, for some obscure reason.

And i'll take is has 'personnal' as i see fit, just like you take your 'ideal' personal.

 

[Charm]

Hence its all well and good believing in the institution, but the world around me tells me its a just a label that means nothing but servitude to the female gender, hence its a joke, so you can speel your natural order of things has much has you feel like it, this sadly is an 'ideal' the world is not formed on ideals, the world has in the western sphere is formed on 'reality' and 'reality' says marriage is a dumb deal for men.

I'm sorry for the pains marriage has caused you. I want you to know that if you want to make marriage work for you in the future, you have the ability to do so. You can create the kind of life you want. I know many couples who are married and have stayed together and lived good lives together. Did the marriage contract help them? Possibly.

 

[jonwon]

I'm sorry for the pains marriage has caused you. I want you to know that if you want to make marriage work for you in the future, you have the ability to do so. You can create the kind of life you want. I know many couples who are married and have stayed together and lived good lives together. Did the marriage contract help them? Possibly.

In a way i admire guys like you charm, that is not sarcasm by the way, i guess i have looked too far into the abyss, but in that, in a way i am glad i did, i dont regret it

 

[Charm]

In a way i admire guys like you charm, that is not sarcasm by the way, i guess i have looked too far into the abyss, but in that, in a way i am glad i did, i dont regret it

Your story and experience is a bit like Dante's Inferno. You walk through hell to eventually reach heaven and perhaps you are still in the 6th circle. I only want you to remember that you are powerful and capable of creating the life you choose in the way that you want.

Here is my advice to you, unsolicited

TEST YOUR WOMEN in the future very rigorously until you are beyond certain that they are right FOR YOU. Every woman works differently with different kinds of men. You could date a woman and it goes south where another guy and her click perfectly. The way to determine if it will work is through the tests you put her through. The majority of this testing can be done immediately in a new relationship in the first month, minus the test of how she behaves over time. However you can figure that out too to a large extent if you can nail her personality down within +/- 10%.

Remember the one thing that truly matters is what a persons THINKING and those thoughts lead to her INTENTIONS. If you can understand what her TRUE intentions are with you short term and long term you can decide if she's someone you truly want to be intimate and LTR with.

There is a reason that psychology exists and even though a lot of people brush it off, there are a lot of very accurate behaviors and personality traits that depend on the personality type of the individual. People who aren't mentally unstable (sick/ill) tend to have fairly consistent personality types. You can actually TEST her personality and TEST your own and see how well your two types click.

 

[aliasguy]

Your story and experience is a bit like Dante's Inferno. You walk through hell to eventually reach heaven and perhaps you are still in the 6th circle. I only want you to remember that you are powerful and capable of creating the life you choose in the way that you want.

Here is my advice to you, unsolicited

TEST YOUR WOMEN in the future very rigorously until you are beyond certain that they are right FOR YOU. Every woman works differently with different kinds of men. You could date a woman and it goes south where another guy and her click perfectly. The way to determine if it will work is through the tests you put her through. The majority of this testing can be done immediately in a new relationship in the first month, minus the test of how she behaves over time. However you can figure that out too to a large extent if you can nail her personality down within +/- 10%.

Remember the one thing that truly matters is what a persons THINKING and those thoughts lead to her INTENTIONS. If you can understand what her TRUE intentions are with you short term and long term you can decide if she's someone you truly want to be intimate and LTR with.

There is a reason that psychology exists and even though a lot of people brush it off, there are a lot of very accurate behaviors and personality traits that depend on the personality type of the individual. People who aren't mentally unstable (sick/ill) tend to have fairly consistent personality types. You can actually TEST her personality and TEST your own and see how well your two types click.

There is NO WAY that you can really "know" someone unless you spend YEARS with them. Their "thinking" and "intentions" are unknown to you for at least a few years. You can run all the "TESTS" (interesting choice of words, given our nomenclature here, isn't it???) you want, but you won't catch all the bad fit types. Women are GREAT actors, so you can't be sure for a long time. Certainly, the really glaringly"wrong" women will make themselves apparent within the 1-month schedule you describe, but the even WORSE type -- the cloaked, dangerous sick ones -- will pass your tests.

Then what?

Don't rely on tests. Just do what you wish. If you "like" her, and want a relationship, well, then just do it. But don't expect that your "tests" have told you all that much about her. Always be prepared for whatever.

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[Charm]

aliasguy,

I disagree with you that you need years to know someone. I can know someone in 6months to a year given the right information and often much faster than that. If I test someone the way I am describing rigorously, we're talking true personality testing, then I can get a much deeper look at that person early on. I could provide examples if you'd like.

You're suggestion is to not rely on tests and just go by how you feel or what you want? That's fine and dandy and most people do that already. Guess what though? Personality testing could have really saved them time finding a better match in a lot of cases rather than spinning their wheels. In the same way that racing tires are not meant for mini-van, and a raincoat is not necessary in your baggage for a trip to las vegas, some people if you know their conditions can be understood better.

One advantage you seem to be missing that I want you to remember is that by personality testing someone, you only seek to gain learning more about them. If the information isn't relevant or useful, discard it, however chances are you WILL learn something about that persons strengths, weaknesses and habits all via their personality.

What I am describing is that if you want to know more about a women, then test her personality type. It will and can give you a very accurate window into the type of person she is, how she handles commitments, how she deals with relationships and even how she'll act as a parent.

This is a way of getting to know someone in a short amount of time without having your time wasted. You can choose not to rely on tests and that is fine. I have found that they help matchmaking considerably because they go BEYOND the words.

There is NO WAY that you can really "know" someone unless you spend YEARS with them. Their "thinking" and "intentions" are unknown to you for at least a few years. You can run all the "TESTS" (interesting choice of words, given our nomenclature here, isn't it???) you want, but you won't catch all the bad fit types. Women are GREAT actors, so you can't be sure for a long time. Certainly, the really glaringly"wrong" women will make themselves apparent within the 1-month schedule you describe, but the even WORSE type -- the cloaked, dangerous sick ones -- will pass your tests.

Then what?

Don't rely on tests. Just do what you wish. If you "like" her, and want a relationship, well, then just do it. But don't expect that your "tests" have told you all that much about her. Always be prepared for whatever.

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[aliasguy]

aliasguy,

I disagree with you that you need years to know someone. I can know someone in 6months to a year given the right information and often much faster than that. If I test someone the way I am describing rigorously, we're talking true personality testing, then I can get a much deeper look at that person early on. I could provide examples if you'd like.

You're suggestion is to not rely on tests and just go by how you feel or what you want? That's fine and dandy and most people do that already. Guess what though? Personality testing could have really saved them time finding a better match in a lot of cases rather than spinning their wheels. In the same way that racing tires are not meant for mini-van, and a raincoat is not necessary in your baggage for a trip to las vegas, some people if you know their conditions can be understood better.

One advantage you seem to be missing that I want you to remember is that by personality testing someone, you only seek to gain learning more about them. If the information isn't relevant or useful, discard it, however chances are you WILL learn something about that persons strengths, weaknesses and habits all via their personality.

What I am describing is that if you want to know more about a women, then test her personality type. It will and can give you a very accurate window into the type of person she is, how she handles commitments, how she deals with relationships and even how she'll act as a parent.

This is a way of getting to know someone in a short amount of time without having your time wasted. You can choose not to rely on tests and that is fine. I have found that they help matchmaking considerably because they go BEYOND the words.

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It's ok for you disagree. We all see things the way we see them. You spoke of personal experience in these matters. I have such experiences as well. Our lives have been different. You've seen things other than I.

I still maintain, however, that you CAN'T know a woman well within a month. Or even SIX months. (By a year, well, SH*T, you're pretty far down that road, dude, but you STILL don't know as much about her as you might think.) That is, you can't know her that soon (a month or six, or even a YEAR) by merely seeing, dating, f*cking, or hanging around her. Maybe your TESTS can, but regular guys like me CANNOT.

So, what are these "TESTS" you are talking about? Do I coerce potential LTRs into a de rigueur MMPI before I say, "ok, I'll be your boyfriend?

And, how do you convince Suzie Handj*b to fill in all the little bubbles with her #2, all for the pleasure of your company?


Clue us in on these magic "TESTS." What ARE they?

Are they like "sh*t tests," or do they transcend womanly games to stratify men?


(This better not be that INJT/EKFI/IRSE kinda crap, either. ---> I just made up those initials, btw, I forget the "real" bullsh*t letters.)



(are you SURE you're not a girl??)

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[Charm]

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I still maintain, however, that you CAN'T know a woman well within a month. Or even SIX months. (By a year, well, SH*T, you're pretty far down that road, dude, but you STILL don't know as much about her as you might think.) That is, you can't know her that soon (a month or six, or even a YEAR) by merely seeing, dating, f*cking, or hanging around her. Maybe your TESTS can, but regular guys like me CANNOT.

Some men have incredible instincts with women and can avoid the demonic ones through their internal radars. Others constantly find themselves in one bad relationship after the next when they are looking for a certain type of girl and at first think they found her and wind up with something else entirely.

In one post can I really teach you how to persuade someone into taking a personality test? I can try. First though you need to remember this is only a "Hoop" as Mystery might call it and while it can give you a window into understanding her, you still need to talk to her, spend time with her, feel things out... you know all of this already.. however this is in a marriage thread, so we're talking about before you get into a VERY long-term relationship.

First it starts with attitude. You show someone that by understanding their own personality and helping you understand it, you'll be more understanding of them and this conveys a sincere interest an truly getting to know her.

Your attitude seems to already be set in your ways since you are choosing to maintain a negative outlook based on what you and others CANNOT do, mine is based on what I CAN do. You can spend your entire life with someone and still continue learning about them. I'm only saying you need to only the details that help you decide how well she fits into your personal vision/fantasy/image/ideal of what you are looking for for long-term. This is about LONG-term commitment relationships. If your talking about short-term flings, forget testing them, do what you want and reap what you sow.

Every guy no matter whether he says he has a type or not, has in his mind SOME concept or image of what he wants. A certain level of fitness, a certain look, height, boob size, personality, etc.

Testing someone on a personality level can help you determine certain qualities about her early on as well as character traits you might want to avoid or better understand. Are these tests necessary? People have lived without them for thousands of years. People also lived without penicillin, but many died before it came around.

I don't care whether you choose the ENFKLMNOP personality tests or whatever. Find one you believe in, that makes sense and qualifies someone. Remember, a test like a personality test is a way of helping you and her. You help her because you save her time if she turns out not to be right for you based on what you find through testing her. She can say whatever she wants early on and so can you. Find a test that is accepted and used by psychologists and psychiatrists to understand a persons personality and have her take it. Make it fun. If this isn't your style, do something else.

The last thing i'll add is that understanding human psychology could allow you to simply ask someone the right questions. However often taking these types of personality tests online leads to people being more honest since its a computer or a piece of paper with the questions rather than you.

 

[aliasguy]

Some men have incredible instincts with women and can avoid the demonic ones through their internal radars. Others constantly find themselves in one bad relationship after the next when they are looking for a certain type of girl and at first think they found her and wind up with something else entirely.

In one post can I really teach you how to persuade someone into taking a personality test? I can try. First though you need to remember this is only a "Hoop" as Mystery might call it and while it can give you a window into understanding her, you still need to talk to her, spend time with her, feel things out... you know all of this already.. however this is in a marriage thread, so we're talking about before you get into a VERY long-term relationship.

First it starts with attitude. You show someone that by understanding their own personality and helping you understand it, you'll be more understanding of them and this conveys a sincere interest an truly getting to know her.

Your attitude seems to already be set in your ways since you are choosing to maintain a negative outlook based on what you and others CANNOT do, mine is based on what I CAN do. You can spend your entire life with someone and still continue learning about them. I'm only saying you need to only the details that help you decide how well she fits into your personal vision/fantasy/image/ideal of what you are looking for for long-term. This is about LONG-term commitment relationships. If your talking about short-term flings, forget testing them, do what you want and reap what you sow.

Every guy no matter whether he says he has a type or not, has in his mind SOME concept or image of what he wants. A certain level of fitness, a certain look, height, boob size, personality, etc.

Testing someone on a personality level can help you determine certain qualities about her early on as well as character traits you might want to avoid or better understand. Are these tests necessary? People have lived without them for thousands of years. People also lived without penicillin, but many died before it came around.

I don't care whether you choose the ENFKLMNOP personality tests or whatever. Find one you believe in, that makes sense and qualifies someone. Remember, a test like a personality test is a way of helping you and her. You help her because you save her time if she turns out not to be right for you based on what you find through testing her. She can say whatever she wants early on and so can you. Find a test that is accepted and used by psychologists and psychiatrists to understand a persons personality and have her take it. Make it fun. If this isn't your style, do something else.

The last thing i'll add is that understanding human psychology could allow you to simply ask someone the right questions. However often taking these types of personality tests online leads to people being more honest since its a computer or a piece of paper with the questions rather than you.

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This sounds like a cross between an Art Bell/George Noori radio guest and an infomercial. No specifics, and a lotta Blah, blah, blah.


If you have these jedi mind tricks, TELL us HOW you think you do this, don't dance around it. (You can't/you WON'T)

I'm not SAYING that I alone can't "know" a woman in a month, I'm saying NO ONE can. And those who think they really "know " a woman that soon are deluding themselves.


I still think you're a girl.



I'll bet you buy into that "law of attraction/ the secret" cr*p, too, right?

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[Charm]

Perhaps I am not the right person to help you. Good luck to you and god bless you in your journey.

 

[aliasguy]

Perhaps I am not the right person to help you. Good luck to you and god bless you in your journey.

Thank you ever so much Ms. Charm. Good luck too you, too.

Once again, no specifics from you.

 

[Charm]

Thank you ever so much Ms. Charm. Good luck too you,too.

I knew I should have picked the name Charmguy!

 

[princelydeeds]

Jonwon, if what you are saying is that the government (Read- The people who truly run the world) uses marriage as yet another way to attempt to control the people. I agree with you 100%.

Our government is out of control, very few people see this as the truth. If you speak of the governments attempts to control and dictate every little thing in our lives you are labeled as a conspiracy nut. The simple truth of the matter is that the government wants to run everything in our lives while controlling even the most intimate and personal things in our live i.e marriage, children family etc. IMHO this is just another example of our government attempting control everything including our thoughts.

 

[jophil28]

TEST YOUR WOMEN in the future very rigorously until you are beyond certain that they are right FOR YOU. Every woman works differently with different kinds of men. You could date a woman and it goes south where another guy and her click perfectly. The way to determine if it will work is through the tests you put her through. The majority of this testing can be done immediately in a new relationship in the first month, minus the test of how she behaves over time. However you can figure that out too to a large extent if you can nail her personality down within +/- 10%.

Remember the one thing that truly matters is what a persons THINKING and those thoughts lead to her INTENTIONS. If you can understand what her TRUE intentions are with you short term and long term you can decide if she's someone you truly want to be intimate and LTR with.

All this wisdom from a "twenty something", and free too.
Seriously -this is GREAT advice.
Testing is essential to screen out most of the losers and abusers. It is a process, not a one date event either. It is also NOT guaranteed to be 100% effective. Some will slip thru.
I accept the reality that there are many women who are just unfit for an LTR (even a second date). They need to be 'weeded' out of the garden and discarded EARLY - in the first month. Women are skilled actresses and both women are men are usually on thier "best behavior" in the firsts few weeks.
Creating tests for her to pass also helps create and maintain the right mindset - SHE is auditioning to be with YOU, not the other way around.

What exactly should we test for and how?
Firstly - her emotional stability/ maturity. Does she get possessive and angry or snotty if you talk to another woman,. Does she become angry if you are unavoidably late. Does she indicate her willingness to be accountable to you for the way she treats you, Does she treat you with value ??
There are many ways that a man can test these qualities in a woman. Being a DJ is not enough. I do not care HOW much you feel that you are "in control" it will NEVER modify a crazy woman's behavior long term..

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Aren't we just talking about qualifying women? It's the whole premise behind determining whether to next a woman or not (preferably sooner than later). I guess it's still getting lost (rather ignored) in order to just focus on a woman's looks.

 

[aliasguy]

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OK, I'll bite.

Tell me what these "tests" ARE. Explain ONE of them to me.


How do you lay the groundwork? What do you say? What do you ASK? I'm not saying one SHOULDN'T check out potential LTRs closely, but there seems to be this hidden, clever, subterranean "TEST" that will give me an answer as to a given chick's "worthiness."

WHAT IS THAT TEST????




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[STR8UP]

Am I the only guy who has never been married that has the same outlook on marriage as my divorced male counterparts?

Could it be due to the fact that in the past I was a serial LTR boyfriend?

Interesting....

 

[aliasguy]

Am I the only guy who has never been married that has the same outlook on marriage as my divorced male counterparts?

Could it be due to the fact that in the past I was a serial LTR boyfriend?

Interesting....

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-You are fortunate. Avoid marriage. Who cares WHY you are blessed with such knowledge. Just accept it. It's correct. It will help you.

NEVER MARRY, dude.

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[jonwon]

Great post JonWon! my only question would be how were marriages arranged in the past like Biblical times or a bit further for example? you mentioned the male asking the parents for the hand of their daughter, is that it? you just ask the dad if you could marry her and if he said ok (and if she was ok with it) she was your wife? I mean in the old days they didn't go to church to get married now did they? I'm just wondering how it was done.

It is also interesting to note that the Bible does not forbid polygamy (although some say it does due to a obscure Paul passage).

You only have to go back 1 generation and ask couples that are still together, why they got married, you will find there reasons are totally different then this generations now.

We are constantly bombarded by articles of 'getting divorce' dam i went into my works staff room and saw a womens magazine on the table that said:

'i lost 10stone after i divorced my husband'

I turn on the TV and i watch how rich men are being taken to the cleaners through divorce, with no reprocussions for the women, i dont see the reverse of this, i.e men taking women to the cleaners.

I then switch channels and see Media portray Famous poeple that have had many partners, dam even Hulk Hogan is getting divorced now and it totally blind-sided him.

Marriage and divorce are seen has part of the package, you get one you get the other, the older generation did not.

I was talking to an old couple and they where telling me how great there life is now, but they both said almost at the same time:

'It took a hell of alot of hard work to get to this stage'

They both looked at each other (with a knowing smile) and you could see some hidden message being passed to each other, some form of code that just showed something happened that made them stronger.

In this day and age, its far easier to simply state: 'No fault divorce', turn around to your mates and say 'hey how many times have you been divorced, i am on my 3rd one'.

Hence the act is almost meaningless, but the ones that make it work are the people who have the attitude of that old couple, in this day and age that is rare.

Has for the family consent, you have to remember the family unit was the foundation of society a generation or two back, it was respectful and normal to get the family's approval, to get both parents of the couple together and have a meal and feel each other out, this still goes on, but less and less, one only needs to get approval from the state and pass the parents consent altogether.

And yes its about government intervention, but this is a small part of the problem, when Hillary Clinton gets into power, she is penciled in to pass a law that allows sons & daughters' to 'sue' there own parents, which will put the final nail into the 'family' coffin, you heard it here first.

And charm, i agree whole-heartidly, but sadly most women fail my tests in the western sphere, i think your on Gilligan’s island, or your living in a place where there are choices, what i see is a large divorce rate, single mums, guys who are afraid to commit since they loose out in marriage and many other things, now i could hop and skip through life and set 'test' after 'test' after 'test' but even if she passes these wonderful tests, marriage is still fundimentally 'a dumb deal for men', so she failed my 'ultimate test' which is expecting me to marry.

You also have to remember, the marriage is a dumb deal for men is the product of our generation, not past ones, court intervention, i.e state intervention has destroyed what is a union of two poeple into a state 'law' infused marxist joke, its only getting worse.
(courts are biased towards males).

Doom-sayer, hey! i only observe from the side lines and i am glad i do, My mate just told me his wife is divorcing him, he has kids, i just put my head down and walked out of the room, i know who is going to be taking those kids. The guy was the typical nice provider guy and his heart broken, no doubt the women will be 'liberated' and join the ranks of the famous chick and maybe loose 10stone now she is no longer married.