An interesting trend I've notice with Gen Z males and how this may shape society

[GoodMan32]

You don't have to drop out of society to drop out of the dating market though. Besides which, it appears that females will be mostly happy sharing the top 20% of guys, and the top guys will be happy to service the women. It only takes a small number of men to impregnate or please a large number of women.

When guys drop out of society, they stop contributing to it. I've always gotten the impression these guys are not interested in joining the workforce, because there's not sufficient reward in it for them if they can't get women. Which seems pretty wimpified if you ask me, but that's the narrative the manosphere has been putting out.

Some manosphere circles propose dropping out of the workforce. I disagree (dropping out of the workforce is going too far).

The top 20% of men (for the most part) will want a beautiful woman. They don't want a Plain Jane. The Plain Janes will end up throwing themselves at the other 80% of men if enough men drop out of the dating market.

 

[zekko]

Some manosphere circles propose dropping out of the workforce. I disagree (dropping out of the workforce is going too far).

The top 20% of men (for the most part) will want a beautiful woman. They don't want a Plain Jane. The Plain Janes will end up throwing themselves at the other 80% of men if enough men drop out of the dating market.

I also disagree that men should drop out of the workforce. Men should still pursue excellence, there is more to life than women.

As for the top 20% of men, from what I take from the manosphere, these guys don't want a beautiful woman, they want many beautiful women, and will also bang Plain Janes on the side when they're bored. For women to throw themselves at the other 80%, they will have to be desperate for relationships, and it appears women these days are less needy for relationships. Or at least are willing to put off having a relationship while they ride the carousel and pursue their careers. There is still a pool of well raised, attractive young women who get married at a young age, but that pool appears to be shrinking. And more importantly, will those women remain in those marriages or end up getting divorced in 5, 10, 15, or 20 or more years? A 42 year old guy can still be blindsided by his wife who suddenly decides she wants independence or something new.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Some manosphere circles propose dropping out of the workforce

Which is little more than a variation of the "Tune In, Drop Out" ethos espoused by Hippies during The late 60s. That dog had ceased to hunt for most folks by time The 70s rolled around, and reality ("I want a ritzy house in an upscale neighborhood, a steady, reliable income, and an SO of my own")set in. Just as the fever dream of Going Your Own way is today crapping out for men who blindly followed it during the late 10s

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm a millennial (I'm 33). I'd say one big reason for why a lot of Millennial and Gen Z employees are on PIPs is the lack of discipline in school

Yeah, what we did back in The 90s created adults who come onto a website devoted to men's self-development pretending to solicit aid https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...me-to-try-with-making-moves-in-person.282277/ , only to then "Yes, but..."every last ounce of counsel he receives. So much so, that one of the mods was prompted to respond:




"Honestly the amount of rationization and justification you are doing is making me physically sick almost.

It's been a long time since I have seen this many excuses in one thread from the same person.

I'm out. You can't be helped with your current mindset and that's a shame because you are doing to to yourself"


And


"You obviously aren't here for help you are only here to spew nonsense and look for someone to agree with you.

Honestly I'm starting to feel like this is some next level trolling"

 

[BaronOfHair]

I've proposed the idea (on SoSuave, other online platforms, as well as in person) that if every available straight man stopped making moves on broads, we'd see a massive societal shift where broads started coming onto us (Because if every available straight man followed my strategy, no single straight woman would ever get a date or sex again unless they started making moves on us). The audience I share the idea with tends to be 30 and 40-somethings (who mostly laugh off the idea). Hearing what you said about Gen Z gives me hope though. If enough Gen Z men follow my strategy (which, from the sounds of it, more and more Gen Z men are), the results I want (broads coming onto men) might just happen (at least to some degree). 10 years from now, when more and more Gen Zers are in the real world, it will be interesting to see.
[/LIST]

And such fellas will likely believe that they're doing something innovative https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking when really, their antics are less original than beautiful young women taking their clothes off on camera for a quick buck:

From the beginning of our species, humans have been shielding themselves from the discomforts of living, by PRETENDING that our thoughts in and of themselves will alter the external world

 

[FlirtLife]

I suspect "quiet quitting" is more common among gen-Z and millennials. They dislike their job, and put in less effort.

It is unlikely someone incompetent would remain in their career for decades. The incompetent Gen-X workers were fired long ago, and found something else to do. The incompetent Gen-Z workers have more recently started working, and have not been filtered out yet.

 

[GoodMan32]

Which is little more than a variation of the "Tune In, Drop Out" ethos espoused by Hippies during The late 60s. That dog had ceased to hunt for most folks by time The 70s rolled around, and reality ("I want a ritzy house in an upscale neighborhood, a steady, reliable income, and an SO of my own")set in. Just as the fever dream of Going Your Own way is today crapping out for men who blindly followed it during the late 10s

Umm, as far as I can tell, the MGTOW movement is still going strong (on another online community, I am peripherally involved in the MGTOW movement)

 

[BaronOfHair]

Umm, as far as I can tell, the MGTOW movement is still going strong (on another online community, I am peripherally involved in the MGTOW movement)

An article similar to Didion's evisceration of The Women's Movement https://www.nytimes.com/1972/07/30/archives/the-womens-movement-women.html could easily be written about MGTOW and it's counterfeit prophets

 

[Manure Spherian]

Besides which, it appears that females will be mostly happy sharing the top 20% of guys, and the top guys will be happy to service the women.

That’s why they the slutti3st of them do not give a rat’s ass about MGTOW’ers and washed-up RP buffoons like Michael Sartain, Richard Coper, Rollo Toma Tomato berating them on YouTube.

When guys drop out of society, they stop contributing to it. I've always gotten the impression these guys are not interested in joining the workforce,

It’s likely a big contributing factor to the seven million men voluntarily out of the workforce. Enforced monogamy was a way to have most men have a stake in the future and high-investment parenting. I do not blame men for not wanting to contributing to a system that would have them supporting other men’s bastard offspring via welfare bucks and giving them nothing meaningful in return.

 

[sangheilios]

@Manure Spherian

What you are mentioning is a huge reason why monogamy is an almost universal trend you will find across many societies. There are definitely some exceptions, but for the most part a man having more than one wife/long term partner is unusual and limited to men with a lot of wealth and not something you would have found with a common man.

It's almost never a good thing when you have large amounts of young men that are single, childless and with no real prospects of finding a woman. I've seen a lot of historical trends that possibly suggest that whenever we see this in the demographics of a particular group or nation there tends to be a lot of chaos, change, etc. When a man has a wife, maybe a couple kids and a stable role in society, they tend to "behave" themselves and really just want to go along with the status quo, be stable, etc. As you mentioned, they basically feel invested into the long term well being of society, as that means their children will have a more stable and prosperous future.

In contrast to this, when a man has no wife, no kids and maybe even doesn't have a real role in society this is not a good thing. This isn't the case for every single man in this category, but they are more likely to engage in risky behaviors and go against the "norms" of society. They basically feel less inclined to consider the long term well being of society and really only living for themselves.

I believe a lot of what we are seeing with young men today ties in with this. It's not historically normal to have huge percentages of men that are well into their 20s and even 30s with literally 0 prospects of finding a gf or wife, let alone have kids.

I think we are going to see some very bad trends develop over the coming decades.

 

[Manure Spherian]

@Manure Spherian

What you are mentioning is a huge reason why monogamy is an almost universal trend you will find across many societies. There are definitely some exceptions, but for the most part a man having more than one wife/long term partner is unusual and limited to men with a lot of wealth and not something you would have found with a common man.

It's almost never a good thing when you have large amounts of young men that are single, childless and with no real prospects of finding a woman. I've seen a lot of historical trends that possibly suggest that whenever we see this in the demographics of a particular group or nation there tends to be a lot of chaos, change, etc. When a man has a wife, maybe a couple kids and a stable role in society, they tend to "behave" themselves and really just want to go along with the status quo, be stable, etc. As you mentioned, they basically feel invested into the long term well being of society, as that means their children will have a more stable and prosperous future.

In contrast to this, when a man has no wife, no kids and maybe even doesn't have a real role in society this is not a good thing. This isn't the case for every single man in this category, but they are more likely to engage in risky behaviors and go against the "norms" of society. They basically feel less inclined to consider the long term well being of society and really only living for themselves.

I believe a lot of what we are seeing with young men today ties in with this. It's not historically normal to have huge percentages of men that are well into their 20s and even 30s with literally 0 prospects of finding a gf or wife, let alone have kids.

I think we are going to see some very bad trends develop over the coming decades.

All you wrote is 100 percent spot on.

Monogamy reduces major social problems of polygamist cultures

In cultures that permit men to take multiple wives, the intra-sexual competition that occurs causes greater levels of crime, violence, poverty and gender inequality than in societies that institutionalize and practice monogamous marriage. That is a key finding of a new study that explores the...

www.sciencedaily.com

“In cultures that permit men to take multiple wives, the intra-sexual competition that occurs causes greater levels of crime, violence, poverty and gender inequality than in societies that institutionalize and practice monogamous marriage.”

 

[sangheilios]

All you wrote is 100 percent spot on.

Monogamy reduces major social problems of polygamist cultures

In cultures that permit men to take multiple wives, the intra-sexual competition that occurs causes greater levels of crime, violence, poverty and gender inequality than in societies that institutionalize and practice monogamous marriage. That is a key finding of a new study that explores the...

www.sciencedaily.com

“In cultures that permit men to take multiple wives, the intra-sexual competition that occurs causes greater levels of crime, violence, poverty and gender inequality than in societies that institutionalize and practice monogamous marriage.”

I'm of the belief that many taboos and societal norms that you find across multiple unrelated cultures all exist for a reason, which is that people literally thousands of years ago noticed certain patterns and come up with social rules and laws in response to these patterns. It's a huge reason why I believe there were many taboos associated with homosexuality for instance, it's not because they literally hate gay people but because there was something associated with this behavior that these ancient people noticed that was problematic.

I am also of the belief that humans tend to be much happier and healthier when they stick with traditional values and beliefs. It seems to be a repetitive failure whenever humans deviate away from these values. Much of what we are seeing now rhymes very well with the 1920s.

Here is a great example of what I'm talking about.

Magnus Hirschfeld - Wikipedia

The Nazi book burnings included his work, as well as many other things. Something to consider.

 

[Manure Spherian]

The Nazi book burnings included his work, as well as many other things. Something to consider.

Yup, I’m aware. The book burnings of NS Germany were largely of the world of sexual revolutionaries.

Refer to Sexual Utopia in Power by F. Roger Devlin.

SoSuave and PUA, BP, MGTOW, and RP exist because the West went quasi-polygamous.

 

[Jumbo Gumbo]

I actually think that we as a western civilization have been beat this time around. Sadly, I do not think the pendulum will swing back for any of us to witness. Sadly I hold no optimism for the USA, Canada, Europe or Australia. Honestly I think they beat us this time.

I hope to be wrong but I’m not optimistic, not at all.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I do not blame men for not wanting to contributing to a system that would have them supporting other men’s bastard offspring via welfare bucks and giving them nothing meaningful in return.

All the more reason for those who claim to be "men's advocates" to form alliances with those who are campaigning to abolish most forms of welfare, in favor steering folks into work + vocational training https://www.wnyc.org/story/strengthening-welfare-work-system/

 

[BaronOfHair]

I actually think that we as a western civilization have been beat this time around. Sadly, I do not think the pendulum will swing back for any of us to witness

Yeah, a Red Pill Kingdom Of Heaven on Earth(Where women never cheat and aren't ever mean) isn't going to cease to be fantasy and become reality anytime soon. Human beings have been devising millenarian fantasies since the beginning of written history, and not once have such things come to pass

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Yeah, a Red Pill Kingdom Of Heaven on Earth(Where women never cheat and aren't ever mean) isn't going to cease to be fantasy and become reality anytime soon. Human beings have been devising millenarian fantasies since the beginning of written history, and not once have such things come to pass

Written history isn't very long.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Written history isn't very long.

5,000 years and counting thus far, and not once has anyone's Apocalyptic fantasy come true, despite many Apocalypses having come true

 

[Manure Spherian]

Where women never cheat and aren't ever mean)

Yeah, men and women cheated, and although there has never been a Kingdom of Heaven, all races of man, the world over, fvcking dealt with this. Though this thought is incongruent with the aims of some Sosuavers, I’m in favor of legalized revenge on male home-wreckers and surveilling of young daughters (I have one myself) like in the bad old days.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Though this thought is incongruent with the aims of some Sosuavers, I’m in favor of legalized revenge on male home-wreckers and surveilling of young daughters (I have one myself) like in the bad old days.

The US getting here is hardly unfathomable. The militarization of our police departments, mandatory minimum sentencing, The Patriot Act, the creation of Homeland Security, Lockdown, and sh-tloads of additional infringements on our civil liberties were largely met with next to no opposition

And Gen Z appears to be even more infused with this same anti-liberty spirit https://www.cato.org/blog/nearly-third-gen-z-favors-home-government-surveillance-cameras-1