Am I being too overreactive here?

[Konada]

Had a movie date with a chick two weeks ago, I was dead tired after the movie so we just went home. Anyway, she messaged me and asked me to study with her the next day but I passed on it since I never study in school, I just find it a huge waste of time and told her I would hit her up again when I'm free. (Had a performance the following week so dating was out for me at this point)

Fast forward to 2 days ago, I hit her up:

Me: Hey xxx, how's everything going on?
Her: Blah Blah
Me: Cool, what nights are you free this week? Let's grab a drink
Her: What makes you so sure I can drink?
Me: Coffee works fine as well
Her: Jk. Kind of hectic nowadays, we can do dinner after class on Saturday?
Me: No bueno, have a family dinner that evening. Maybe some other time
Her: Okay, blah blah blah..

I'm extremely turned off by how she tried to flip the script on me twice. Am I overreacting or is my gut instinct correct to tell me she's looking for a guy to control?

 

[Poon King]

Follow this simple rule: No submission, no attention.

This means you lead and the woman follows. Women with high interest will always follow. Some of them will test you to see if they can flip the script as you say. They only test when they sense weakness/thirst. A thirsty man is usually a man with few or no other options. If the woman finds she can flip the script and make YOU submit.. she knows you're a probably a loser and she loses sexual attraction.

There is a reason why I constantly preach "no pandering" and doing everything on YOUR terms. It works. Most men are faggots. When you show dominance you stand out and women love it.

 

[Glassguy]

I think I would have went more along the lines of this:

Me: Hey trouble
Her: Blah Blah
Me: I have a rare evening free Thursday and I am going to grab a drink. Going to _____, see you around 8?
Her: What makes you so sure I can drink?
Me: I guess we will find out around 9pm after you've had a couple. Should I be worried about you getting me drunk and taking advantage of me?Her: Jk. Kind of hectic nowadays, we can do dinner after class on Saturday?
Me: I am tied up Saturday with something that I cant get out of, but I will meet you for a drink afterwards at 9pm.
Her: Sounds great!

Take the lead. What she says is really not that important. You are framing that you're going to be out, with or without her, doing something you want to do and are simply inviting her to come along. She will think the show goes on with or without her making it an easy choice.

 

[guru1000]

Yes, you are a bit sensitive. You need to develop thicker skin and have fun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a bit of healthy, playful banter.

1.
Her: What makes you so sure I can drink?
Me: Exactly. Let's hope your tolerance is low

2.
Her: What makes you so sure I can drink?
Me: Who gave you permission to ask me such a question!

I actually go a bit aggressive like in No 2 when I banter to set the frame early, and to vet for deference (give the shvt test right back to her).

Here:

Her: Jk. Kind of hectic nowadays, we can do dinner after class on Saturday?
Me: No bueno, have a family dinner that evening. Maybe some other time

You should have countered.

Me: No bueno, how about Sun at 6 p.m.?

Just like in sales, Always Be Closing. Don't end an exchange without scheduling a date. Though, if she declines your counter without a counter you end with:

"Gotcha. Seems like you have a lot on your plate. Let me know when your schedule frees up and we'll schedule something then."

No contact following unless she initiates.

 

[Glassguy]

By always closing, you will separate the low interest chicks from the ones you can bag.

2 scenarios:

1.) I always offer a specific date/time. If they cant make that time, and they dont counter offer with a specific day/time, I bounce. I may hit them up a week later with a simple "hey" and see what happens. If there is still good banter back and forth, I'll offer again. Anything but a yes or specific rescheduled time from her and go ghost.

2.) 2 offers (NEVER more than that) and I do the same as Guru. "You seem too busy for me, let me know if you get freed up later on". Go Ghost.

You should NEVER have to work hard to meet up with a chick that has good interest in you. If you do, the interest is low or they want to make you work really hard for their attention. We dont have time for that as there is a bus every 15 minutes!

I had a chick last month that I offered twice, she beat around the bush (always busy) and I went ghost. She texted me a couple weeks later asking me "where did you go?". I politely told her that I offered twice and she never solidified meeting up, and I didnt think it should be that tough to meet up. She then asked me if I was talking to anyone and my response was "always". She really turned up the pressure but I just blew her off. I am smart enough to realize that she wants orbiters and even if I started hitting it the orbiters wouldnt be worth the hassle. Attention *****s go to the back of the bus!

 

[Arcturus]

Umm what the flying fuk? What exactly did she do that was "flipping the script" or even slightly not cool? She was just being playful and even said "jk". She just wanted you to tease it out of her. The only problem here is your uptight mind frame and need to work on yourself overall.

 

[guru1000]

Deesade, I had worse girls than this that I ended up banging in the azz on the second date, and still orbit me faithfully to date.

What's of interest is what the OP wants out of the interaction; if that is to bang, well then, set up the bang. If OP's interest is to walk away because she is too harsh (by shvt testing), then walk away.

 

[Konada]

@deesade Had my arms around her but could feel she wasn't really ready anything further. I only went for a movie date because it was something I wanted to watch, no biggie.

Wasn't entirely sold on her yet which is why I rejected her dinner date, I just find it extremely hard to have a good conversation to flirt when everyone is stuffing their faces with food.


@PairPlusRoyalFlush I study at home where I can actually focus and get the most out of my revision time.

@guru1000 Noted for ABC rule. Keeping it in mind for the next girl.

 

[Arcturus]

First date: movie and no action.

Girl proposes second date: study.

Girl reframes third date, and third date counter: dinner.

'Flying fvck' nothing. That isn't an interested woman.

This is a totally interested woman.

1. He said HE was dead tired, so he probably was low energy all night and didn't make it happen. He didn't say he went in for the kiss and she blew him off. Totally his fault for not making it happen.

2. She didn't reframe anything, she said it was hectic and made a counter offer. Since shes not very creative, she said the first thing that came to mind when hanging with guys, "dinner."

3. She asked him to study, which means she literally wants to see him and hang out with him again after the movie, so was coming up with an excuse to spend time with him.

She's showing him interest and making time for him. Hell shes even initiating things with her own offers to spend time together. This is a girl he can totally close, if he lets his own insecurities get out of his way.

 

[marmel75]

This is a totally interested woman.

1. He said HE was dead tired, so he probably was low energy all night and didn't make it happen. He didn't say he went in for the kiss and she blew him off. Totally his fault for not making it happen.

2. She didn't reframe anything, she said it was hectic and made a counter offer. Since shes not very creative, she said the first thing that came to mind when hanging with guys, "dinner."

3. She asked him to study, which means she literally wants to see him and hang out with him again after the movie, so was coming up with an excuse to spend time with him.

She's showing him interest and making time for him. Hell shes even initiating things with her own offers to spend time together. This is a girl he can totally close, if he lets his own insecurities get out of his way.

I'm with him...uninterested women don't counter let alone several times

 

[Konada]

This is a totally interested woman.

1. He said HE was dead tired, so he probably was low energy all night and didn't make it happen. He didn't say he went in for the kiss and she blew him off. Totally his fault for not making it happen.

2. She didn't reframe anything, she said it was hectic and made a counter offer. Since shes not very creative, she said the first thing that came to mind when hanging with guys, "dinner."

3. She asked him to study, which means she literally wants to see him and hang out with him again after the movie, so was coming up with an excuse to spend time with him.

She's showing him interest and making time for him. Hell shes even initiating things with her own offers to spend time together. This is a girl he can totally close, if he lets his own insecurities get out of his way.

I'd beg to differ point 2. Granted not every girl is going to feel comfortable having drinks with a guy they barely know, especially since my culture isn't as open as the US which is why I made the concession of a coffee. This is extremely low investment on both of our parts and does not warrant an blatant framegrab of dinner.

 

[Arcturus]

I'm with him...uninterested women don't counter let alone several times

She countered once, when she said her weekdays were hectic and offered dinner. She's not allowed to be busy, especially for drinks, which lead to hangovers that make work/school super hard the next day on a weekday?

 

[Arcturus]

I'd beg to differ point 2. Granted not every girl is going to feel comfortable having drinks with a guy they barely know, especially since my culture isn't as open as the US which is why I made the concession of a coffee. This is extremely low investment on both of our parts and does not warrant an blatant framegrab of dinner.

"Coffee works fine as well" comes across as tossing out more suggestions to the drinks offer and not as a solid offer in and of itself. Do you want to pass up sex with this girl because you want to hold such minor nuances against her? Why don't you at least try and hang out with her another time and see if she gives you any actual resistance or if this is an issue with you being hyper aware of the game and over thinking things. As for drinks, it's not just a comfort thing. I hang with girls all the time on weekdays playing various sports and they turn down the invite to the after party for drinks, because they have to wake up early the next day and don't want to be hung over. We still end up going out for drinks on the weekends and closing easily.

 

[marmel75]

Personally had time-wasters behave like this myself in the past.

My point was that her interest sounds mediocre. And that she should be backburnered.

Movie and no escalation will make things grey. But a woman with good interest does not behave like this.



Why do you say "she wasn't ready"?



It's unnecessarily expensive, and more difficult to sexualize. Unlike coffee and drinks.

Crap idea for a date.

It's possible, but lack of escalation on his part was his own doing

 

[Konada]

Personally had time-wasters behave like this myself in the past.

My point was that her interest sounds mediocre. And that she should be backburnered.

Movie and no escalation will make things grey. But a woman with good interest does not behave like this.



Why do you say "she wasn't ready"?



It's unnecessarily expensive, and more difficult to sexualize. Unlike coffee and drinks.

Crap idea for a date.

To be fair I did escalate during the movie date. I put my arm around her and started caressing later into the movie, but this was after I tried maybe (2 times?) with her moving away. No reciprocation of kino from her.

I got the same reaction again when we were walking from the cinema, I did what I could though so I just left it at that due to a lack of time. I would've have offered drinks after the movie if I was not dead tired from the work I had in the afternoon.

@Arcturus I fail to see how a person can get drunk in 1-2 drinks unless you have really low tolerance.

Plus you said you close on the weekend with drinks, so what the fvck does it mean when she offers dinner over drinks on a weekend? (Class is on Saturday)

 

[marmel75]

To be fair I did escalate during the movie date. I put my arm around her and started caressing later into the movie, but this was after I tried maybe (2 times?) with her moving away. No reciprocation of kino from her.

I got the same reaction again when we were walking from the cinema, I did what I could though so I just left it at that due to a lack of time. I would've have offered drinks after the movie if I was not dead tired from the work I had in the afternoon.

@Arcturus I fail to see how a person can get drunk in 1-2 drinks unless you have really low tolerance.

Plus you said you close on the weekend with drinks, so what the fvck does it mean when she offers dinner over drinks on a weekend? (Class is on Saturday)

There was a poster, can't remember his name, but he had a thing he did in the movie theater where as soon as he sat down with a woman he'd put his hand on her knee...then he'd start moving it up higher and higher during the movie until it was on her pvssy...he said usually they shoved it away a few times but almost always let him do it eventually...he'd then rub her pvssy and cl!t for the rest of the movie and by the time it was over they were so horny they would almost jump him and basically suggest they go somewhere to fvck...

That's what you should have done...

 

[Trump]

told her I would hit her up again when I'm free.

Wouldnt have said that.

Fast forward to 2 days ago, I hit her up:

Me: Hey xxx, how's everything going on?
Her: Blah Blah
Me: Cool, what nights are you free this week? Let's grab a drink

Translation; I'm open and free everyday this week to be with you. No girls no nothing. Whatever night that works for you works for me.

I would have just said 'are you available Wed at 7 pm for a drink?'

Her: What makes you so sure I can drink?
Me: Coffee works fine as well

She changed the subject, talked back and you easily agreed to it.

I would have said 'excuse me?'

Her: Jk. Kind of hectic nowadays, we can do dinner after class on Saturday?
Me: No bueno, have a family dinner that evening. Maybe some other time
Her: Okay, blah blah blah..

Wouldn't have said 'maybe some other time.'

Would have said 'I'll get back to you.'

I'm extremely turned off by how she tried to flip the script on me twice. Am I overreacting or is my gut instinct correct to tell me she's looking for a guy to control?

Bro she flipped the script because she knew she could. Your fault for letting her.

We act weak then get angry when women take full advantage. Just don't act weak.

 

[Tenacity]

Am I being too overreactive here?

Yes you are. Buddy you are doing great, you are out there in the field. I think your looks are solid, you are building up your finances which is great, what you have to work on is the personality.

Now, I can't tell you WHAT specific personality to have. Some guys are more wild/crazy/extroverted like me, some guys are more introverted/chill/laid back. Which one represents you more? Once you figure that out then you want to roll with that.

But no matter which personality style fits you, make sure you have fun. Crack jokes, use humor (even if you svck at it, you will get better as you go along), and just enjoy the time/company.

From my viewpoint, the girl was playing around with you a lot and even flirting back, but you were over-analyzing the situation and a little too uptight. That's just a result of a lack of experience with women. This will go away IN TIME as you continue to talk to more and more women on a daily basis.

So here's my recommendations:

- The looks are great, but hit the gym and add more muscle. It will just make you even more attractive.

- Keep working on the finances and get that money as high as possible. You can never have too much money.

- Figure out what your natural personality type is. Are you the wild/crazy/goofy/class clown type of guy like Tenacity is? Or are you the slick/laid back/smooth type of guy? Are you a combination of both? Find what that is and hone it. Learn how to just start and continue conversations in general, you should be able to have intelligent convos without it being boring, sexual convos without being too "nasty", and just regular/random convos off the top of your head. Again...all of this comes in TIME when you are meeting/talking to more women on a daily basis. In TIME, you will get more comfortable to the point of where it will be just like driving a car, you don't even think about it.

- Make sure you are approaching a LOT of women. I understand you have other things to do, but try to approach let's say 10 women a week/40 a month in person. You can add in the online stuff but I will tell you....if you can't get women OFFLINE, then ONLINE isn't going to work. I can use ONLINE because I can get the bytches OFFLINE. I would add in ONLINE later down the line....just do the in-person stuff for now.

Do 10 approaches a week within your social circle, get shot down, get embarrassed, get rejected, get accepted, get laid, etc., etc.,....throughout it all you will be GROWING and all of this will be 2nd nature to you in a short period of time.

 

[Tenacity]

Umm what the flying fuk? What exactly did she do that was "flipping the script" or even slightly not cool? She was just being playful and even said "jk". She just wanted you to tease it out of her. The only problem here is your uptight mind frame and need to work on yourself overall.

This is a totally interested woman.

1. He said HE was dead tired, so he probably was low energy all night and didn't make it happen. He didn't say he went in for the kiss and she blew him off. Totally his fault for not making it happen.

2. She didn't reframe anything, she said it was hectic and made a counter offer. Since shes not very creative, she said the first thing that came to mind when hanging with guys, "dinner."

3. She asked him to study, which means she literally wants to see him and hang out with him again after the movie, so was coming up with an excuse to spend time with him.

She's showing him interest and making time for him. Hell shes even initiating things with her own offers to spend time together. This is a girl he can totally close, if he lets his own insecurities get out of his way.

^^ I agree with everything this guy said. I can tell THIS GUY is actually out here in the field because his commentary is more reality based and he hit the nail on the head in relation to the girl and what she was doing.........not keyboard jockey bullshyt about "never be weak" or some other stupid shyt like that.

 

[marmel75]

Wouldnt have said that.
Translation; I'm open and free everyday this week to be with you. No girls no nothing. Whatever night that works for you works for me.

I would have just said 'are you available Wed at 7 pm for a drink?'

Actually I've found trying to pigeon hole a day looks far worse most times because if she says No, then what? Then you are offering another day or saying "OK, well let me know when you are free", which has low odds to be honest with a chick that you haven't met yet.

If she gives you a list of available days, you simply pick one, or if she only gives ones that don't work, you tell her that isn't going to work for me and let her know a day and time you have available. If neither work then you simply say "Ok, well I guess this week is out I'll get back to you next week and we can figure something out."

My goal would be to find a time when she is free, not blindly pick a random day and time hoping that she has nothing going on, or isn't working, in class, etc. Makes little sense.

Either way, the bottom line is, if she wants to meet you it really doesn't matter much.